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LO 044 Aug 8, 2022 6:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9696805)
I'm sure 5T are thrilled to hear this.

I wonder if Flair will / should jump on the YEG-YZF route. You would think the prices would fall to 25% of what 5T probably charges.

Alexcaban Aug 9, 2022 12:44 AM

Air Canada just loaded YUL-CPH for S23
Starts June 23rd, 5 weekly on the 788

AC826 YUL-CPH 17.55-06.45+1 788 xx34567

AC827 CPH-YUL 13.15-15.00 788 1xx4567

nname Aug 9, 2022 1:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban (Post 9697267)
Air Canada just loaded YUL-CPH for S23
Starts June 23rd, 5 weekly on the 788

AC826 YUL-CPH 17.55-06.45+1 788 xx34567

AC827 CPH-YUL 13.15-15.00 788 1xx4567

So with this, YYZ-AMS moved from AC826/827 to AC 807/808. YYZ-MAN moved to AC 907/908.

I guess Europe flights will be using the 9xx from now on instead of 10xx. I'll see if they'll renumber the EDI and KEF flights.

Dominion301 Aug 9, 2022 3:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9696888)
I wonder if Flair will / should jump on the YEG-YZF route. You would think the prices would fall to 25% of what 5T probably charges.

Maybe a twice weekly summer seasonal, which be useless in winter. Prices already fell substantially on the route when the southerners invaded.

WS have loaded their winter schedule. Looking at YOW, all sun routes return to their winter 2019-20 schedule, including:
MBJ 2x weekly
RSW 2x weekly
MCO 3x weekly

YYC drops from 13x to 11x weekly (at least for the week in December I checked)
YWG drops from 6x to 3x weekly…do doubt thanks to WO now being there too.
YYZ drops from up to 12x daily to between 4x & 6x/day. Every day has a 737 or two with the rest DH4s.

YOW certainly fares better than YUL that are down to only 4x DH4 daily to YYZ and 5x weekly to YYC. So less than 1 mainline WS flight per day at YUL!

I imagine that this will roughly be the eastern triangle going forward but come summer 2023, 737s will replace the remaining DH4s.

The 789 is also still on YYZ-YVR this winter.

Denscity Aug 9, 2022 5:56 AM

YVR now up over 2 million passengers per month and 80% of pre pandemic levels.

thenoflyzone Aug 9, 2022 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban (Post 9697267)
Air Canada just loaded YUL-CPH for S23
Starts June 23rd, 5 weekly on the 788

AC826 YUL-CPH 17.55-06.45+1 788 xx34567

AC827 CPH-YUL 13.15-15.00 788 1xx4567

:tup:

Just wondering, how are they getting the frame to operate this route? Seems to me they didn’t have too much slack on widebodies this summer.
Maybe a shorter European route is going the way of the Max 8, in order to free up this B788?

BenYOW Aug 9, 2022 1:01 PM

WestJet is entering the YYF-YVR market as of February 17, 2023. Service will be six days per week excluding Saturdays, with flights operated through WestJet Link (Pacific Coastal Airlines) on the 34-seat Saab 340.
  • YVR-YYF Dep 1245 Arr 1335
  • YYF-YVR Dep 1405 Arr 1455

Alexcaban Aug 9, 2022 3:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9697545)
:tup:

Just wondering, how are they getting the frame to operate this route? Seems to me they didn’t have too much slack on widebodies this summer.
Maybe a shorter European route is going the way of the Max 8, in order to free up this B788?

Isn't there a 789 being delivered by the end of the year? with 2 more next year.

Denscity Aug 9, 2022 5:26 PM

The first flight from Fiji Airways will be landing in Vancouver in the next hour. :tup:

thenoflyzone Aug 9, 2022 7:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban (Post 9697736)
Isn't there a 789 being delivered by the end of the year? with 2 more next year.

You’re right. No deliveries this year, but they’re getting 2 next year, according to their latest fleet plans released last week. They’re launching YYZ-BRU next year as well. So it explains the 2 route launches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9697896)
The first flight from Fiji Airways will be landing in Vancouver in the next hour. :tup:

Are these promo flights really worth it?

nname Aug 9, 2022 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9697545)
:tup:

Just wondering, how are they getting the frame to operate this route? Seems to me they didn’t have too much slack on widebodies this summer.
Maybe a shorter European route is going the way of the Max 8, in order to free up this B788?

They can just move the 788 from YUL-PVG to the route. Or you really think China is going to open up by next summer?

Current routes scheduled with the 788:
1. YVR-KIX/ZRH
2. YUL-PVG
3. YYZ-PVG
4. YUL-CAI/TLV
5. YYZ-EDI
6. YYZ-MAN
7. YYZ-LHR
8. YUL-LHR
9. YVR-LHR
10. YUL-CPH
11. YYZ-CPH
12. YYZ-BRU

Both PVG flights are questionable, EDI/MAN can easily done with 7M8, LHR flights can upgauge to 789, YYZ-BRU had always been in in scheduled but keep getting postponed. Not really sure if they'll actually start it next year.

manny_santos Aug 10, 2022 5:13 AM

My return flight to BC was from YXU-YYC-YVR - a much better experience than my recent flight to Pearson. As usual, London Airport was a breeze with no delay. My second flight from YYC-YVR was delayed departing Calgary by 35 minutes due to lack of ground crews, but when I landed at YVR, by the time I got off the plane and got to the baggage area, my suitcase was already at the carousel.

I must say, I’ve never had a bad experience with either London Airport or YVR.

zahav Aug 10, 2022 6:12 AM

Aeroroutes did a good summary of mainland Chinese service over the next few months (that's basically as far as they can judge it because it changes so much). Ridiculously low levels of service everywhere. Outside of Asia, Los Angeles, Sydney, and Vancouver are the top destinations in terms of frequency and airlines (which isn't saying much, but shows which markets are relatively highest demand still for China):

LAX
Beijing Capital–Los Angeles 1 weekly 777-300ER (Inbound via Tianjin) - Air China
Shenzhen–Los Angeles 1 weekly 777-300ER - Air China
Guangzhou–Los Angeles 2 weekly A380 - China Southern
Xiamen–Los Angeles 4 weekly 787-9 - Xiamen Airlines

YVR
Beijing Capital–Vancouver 1 weekly 777-300ER (Outbound via Shenyang, Inbound via Zhengzhou) - Air China
Shenzhen–Vancouver 1 weekly 787-9 - Hainan Airlines
Chengdu Shuangliu–Vancouver 1 weekly A350-900XWB (2 from 02SEP22) - Sichuan Airlines
Xiamen–Vancouver 1 weekly 787-9 (2 from 06OCT22) - Xiamen Airlines

SYD
Shanghai Pu Dong–Sydney 1 weekly 777-300ER - China Eastern
Guangzhou–Sydney 1 weekly A350-900XWB - China Southern
Fuzhou–Sydney 1 weekly 787-8/-9 (until 13SEP22) - Xiamen Airlines
Xiamen–Sydney 3 weekly 787-8/-9 - Xiamen Airlines

Notable major cities that have either no (or almost no) flights:
YYZ (2 weekly flights)
NYC (1 weekly flight)
PAR (1 weekly flight)
LON (no flights)
ORD (no flights)
SFO (no flights)
SEA (no flights)
WAS (no flights)

I know it's splitting hairs, but it's interesting how they've divied up the flights that do exist. And very weird city pairs and not on the airlines that you'd expect. YVR the only airport outside Asia to have four different airlines serving four different destinations. Who the heck knows how things will play out into winter and next year.

Full article here

hehehe Aug 10, 2022 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9698539)
Aeroroutes did a good summary of mainland Chinese service over the next few months (that's basically as far as they can judge it because it changes so much). Ridiculously low levels of service everywhere. Outside of Asia, Los Angeles, Sydney, and Vancouver are the top destinations in terms of frequency and airlines (which isn't saying much, but shows which markets are relatively highest demand still for China):

LAX
Beijing Capital–Los Angeles 1 weekly 777-300ER (Inbound via Tianjin) - Air China
Shenzhen–Los Angeles 1 weekly 777-300ER - Air China
Guangzhou–Los Angeles 2 weekly A380 - China Southern
Xiamen–Los Angeles 4 weekly 787-9 - Xiamen Airlines

YVR
Beijing Capital–Vancouver 1 weekly 777-300ER (Outbound via Shenyang, Inbound via Zhengzhou) - Air China
Shenzhen–Vancouver 1 weekly 787-9 - Hainan Airlines
Chengdu Shuangliu–Vancouver 1 weekly A350-900XWB (2 from 02SEP22) - Sichuan Airlines
Xiamen–Vancouver 1 weekly 787-9 (2 from 06OCT22) - Xiamen Airlines

SYD
Shanghai Pu Dong–Sydney 1 weekly 777-300ER - China Eastern
Guangzhou–Sydney 1 weekly A350-900XWB - China Southern
Fuzhou–Sydney 1 weekly 787-8/-9 (until 13SEP22) - Xiamen Airlines
Xiamen–Sydney 3 weekly 787-8/-9 - Xiamen Airlines

Notable major cities that have either no (or almost no) flights:
YYZ (2 weekly flights)
NYC (1 weekly flight)
PAR (1 weekly flight)
LON (no flights)
ORD (no flights)
SFO (no flights)
SEA (no flights)
WAS (no flights)

I know it's splitting hairs, but it's interesting how they've divied up the flights that do exist. And very weird city pairs and not on the airlines that you'd expect. YVR the only airport outside Asia to have four different airlines serving four different destinations. Who the heck knows how things will play out into winter and next year.

Full article here

Wow, that's incredibly low service. I wonder when China service eventually makes a comeback? S23 at the earliest?

thenoflyzone Aug 10, 2022 1:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9698602)
Wow, that's incredibly low service. I wonder when China service eventually makes a comeback? S23 at the earliest?

Highly unlikely. Late 2023, at the earliest, most likely in 2024 or beyond.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...years-under-xi

thenoflyzone Aug 10, 2022 2:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9698306)

Both PVG flights are questionable, EDI/MAN can easily done with 7M8, LHR flights can upgauge to 789, YYZ-BRU had always been in in scheduled but keep getting postponed. Not really sure if they'll actually start it next year.

Highly unlikely YUL/YYZ-PVG resumes next summer.

As for YYZ-BRU, considering Canada-Europe traffic is near it's 2019 level, it's very likely the route starts next summer. I'm even eager to see if SN follows through with their intention of starting YUL-BRU next summer. That was the plan, after all. AC takes over YYZ-BRU, and SN moves over to YUL, to compliment AC's service.

https://press.brusselsairlines.com/b...0International

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9698539)
Ridiculously low levels of service everywhere. Outside of Asia, Los Angeles, Sydney, and Vancouver are the top destinations in terms of frequency and airlines

They're also the 3 airports that are suffering the most, as 4x to 6x weekly service to each is a drop in the bucket, compared to all the Chinese flights they had pre-pandemic.

Like I said above, highly likely the zero-COVID policy stays in place until late next year, or even 2024. All the better, if you ask me. My local airport has been benefitting from a ton of additional flights to Africa/Europe/Asia/South America because AC can't send it's planes to PEK, PVG or HKG like they want to. Routes like YUL-DEL/CAI/MXP, and soon, CPH, have all started since 2020, and some of those were unthinkable in 2019.

China can stay locked down until the 2030s as far as I'm concerned.

Some interesting AC/YUL stats below, with the addition of CPH next June.

https://simpleflying.com/air-canada-...al-copenhagen/

Quote:

June is many months away and much can change, especially with the Far East. However, as of August 10th, Air Canada plans 25 long-haul routes to Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Asia, and South America from Montréal in the first week of next June. That's up from 20 in the same week in 2019. Its network has grown by a quarter.

More importantly, departing flights (i.e., flights leaving Montréal) have risen from 97 to 142, up by a huge 46.4%, also reflecting frequency increases on multiple existing routes. OAG shows that departing seats for sale have grown from 28,910 that week to 42,889, up by 48.3%. They've increased by a similar amount over 2022 figures.

According to OAG, Air Canada plans a total of 1,212 weekly departures from Montréal that week. This means Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Asia, and South America will have 11.7% of flights. That's a higher proportion than from its main Toronto hub (9.7%) and its West Coast hub at Vancouver (7.4%).
I just hope AC gets its shit in order for S23. It's been a shit show at YUL the past months.

Dominion301 Aug 10, 2022 9:32 PM

YYZ Q2 2022 results: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...811754843.html

14.6 million pax in the first half of 2022. That's in-line as I recall with about 2007 traffic levels just before YYZ skyrocketed from under 30 million to over 50 million pax a year.

thenoflyzone Aug 11, 2022 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9699345)
YYZ Q2 2022 results: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...811754843.html

14.6 million pax in the first half of 2022. That's in-line as I recall with about 2007 traffic levels just before YYZ skyrocketed from under 30 million to over 50 million pax a year.

Q1 was still way off the mark. Traffic picked up in Q2 (9.3 out of the 14.6 million pax to date were handled in Q2). Q3 2022 will be fairly close to Q3 2019.

Full year 2022 numbers, because of those slower 3, 4 months, will still be well below 2019, but full year 2023 numbers should resemble, if not surpass, 2019.

It should be the same at YYZ, YUL and YYC. YVR is slightly behind in that regard, due to China still closed off, but is still coming back strong in other segments such as US, domestic and Europe.

All in all, it will have been a 3 year dip for the majors, and back to normal in 2023. Not too bad, all things considered.

thenoflyzone Aug 11, 2022 2:03 AM

With that list on simpleflying, just realized YUL is also the only airport in Canada where a single airline offers non stop flights to 5 continents. Not many airports across the globe can claim that. It's a pretty exclusive list.

YYZ, of course, has 5 continents, but Africa is served by ET and MS, not AC.


Quote:

Here's a breakdown of what Air Canada plans to operate in the week beginning June 1st. It is, of course, subject to change. Routes include Milan, which restarted earlier this year after a 20-year absence.

1. London Heathrow: 2x daily (1x B787-8, 1x B787-9)
2. Paris CDG: 2x daily (1x B777-300ER, 1x B787-9)
3. Athens: 1x daily (B787-9)
4. Barcelona: 1x daily (A330-300
5. Brussels: 1x daily (B787-9)
6. Rome: 1x daily (B777-300ER)
7. Frankfurt: 1x daily (B787-9)
8. Milan: 1x daily (A330-300)
9. Tokyo Narita: 1x daily (B787-9)
10. Shanghai Pudong: 1x daily (B787-8)
11. Casablanca: 6x weekly (A330-300)
12. Copenhagen: 5x weekly (B787-8)
13. Geneva: 5x weekly (A330-300)
14. Lisbon: 5x weekly (A330-300)
15. Lyon: 5x weekly (A330-300)
16. Algiers: 4x weekly (A330-300)
17. Cairo: 4x weekly (B787-8)
18. Delhi: 4x weekly (B787-9)
19. Dublin: 4x weekly (A330-300)
20. Bogotá: 3x weekly (A330-300)
21. Keflavik: 3x weekly (B737 MAX 8)
22. Nice: 3x weekly (A330-300)
23. São Paulo: 3x weekly (B787-9)
24. Tel Aviv: 3x weekly (B787-8)
25. Venice: 2x weekly (A330-300)
The list includes destinations served in summer. Notably absent is LIM, which AC plans to resume this winter, on a seasonal basis, and is therefore not on the list. BOG and GRU are year round and so are included.

zahav Aug 12, 2022 6:02 AM

That's interesting about AC flying to 5 continents from YUL, never realized that before either. If AC ever starts any routes to South America, we'd join you before YYZ (unless AC starts to Africa before). AC is certainly asserting itself at YUL, would be curious how this is affecting TS, as they really dominated Europe before.

As for China, I honestly wouldn't even guess when a major recovery would happen, it's that unsure. It could be end of 2023 or later, they have just made so little progress in where they are now vs. 2 years ago, it's hard to see them opening properly anytime soon. As much as YUL has gained, YVR has benefited from China being closed off by gaining so many other destinations in Asia (either by AC or other carriers). Of course we lost the most due to China, but it's not like we've lost that much in terms of carriers, just traffic and frequency from China. Could definitely have been way worse.


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