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Coldrsx Jun 24, 2022 11:36 PM

That DC-9 is so slick.

'Singapore 85'

casper Jun 25, 2022 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9659283)
Really? Which airline? I remember coming to Canada in 1982 and those PTV's were the first thing I went on at Mirabel Airport. I didn't even know YEG ever used these.

They made a lot of sense for Mirabel. In the 1980s I did the odd Canadian Pacific flight from Toronto to Lisbon or the odd TAP Air Portugal Charter on the same route. They always had to stop in Mirabel between Lisbon and Toronto. You waited on the aircraft as they docked the people mover and the local Montreal passengers would get on/off. Then you would continue to the final destination.

Back then all the airports in Canada were owned and operated by Transport Canada. Not surprising to see things done the same way between all the locaitons.

Dominion301 Jun 25, 2022 5:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx (Post 9659372)
That DC-9 is so slick.

'Singapore 85'

Yup. Long live the 9!

thewave46 Jun 25, 2022 7:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9659886)
Yup. Long live the 9!

Not too much longer for the DC-9 and its descendants, alas.

Delta has announced the phaseout of the Boeing 717 (nee MD-95) - the last descendant of the DC-9 - by 2025. Qantas has as well. That pretty much leaves Hawaiian as the only operator left.

Unless one is doing air cargo.

What’s the meaning of Singapore 85?

Djeffery Jun 25, 2022 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9659942)

What’s the meaning of Singapore 85?

Took some searching but came up with "Promoting the launch of the Toronto-London-Bombay-Singapore route in 1985."

thenoflyzone Jun 25, 2022 10:41 PM

^ and they’re resurrecting 75% of that route soon….

Edit: it’s more like 66%.

Dominion301 Jun 26, 2022 4:35 AM

I never knew Time Air flew a (multiple?) King Air 90 in full Canadi>n livery in the late 80s. This photo was shot at YXD. Which communities did it fly to?

https://www.airhistory.net/photos/0188103.jpg

zahav Jun 26, 2022 9:50 PM

This is surprising..

EL AL ISRAEL AIRLINES CLOSING BOOKINGS ON 3 ROUTES FROM LATE-OCT 2022
NW22
Published at 0400GMT 26JUN22

El Al Israel Airlines in the last few days closed reservation for on selected markets. As of 26JUN22, following routes are no longer available for reservation for travel on/after 30OCT22, including summer 2023 season on/after 25MAR23:

Tel Aviv – Brussels 2 weekly 737-800
Tel Aviv – Toronto 2 weekly 787-9 (El Al served Toronto since April 1986; approximate)
Tel Aviv – Warsaw 5 weekly 737-800/-900

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220626-lynw22

This route was pretty important for a lot of people travelling to Israel, non-Jewish people may not get it, but El Al is more than just an airline, it is really symbolic in North America especially. This is obviously a result of AC growing the route and from YUL (El Al does not fly to YUL, but probably did in the Mirabel days?). But AC really adding a ton of capacity on the route was the death knell fore sure. Don't like seeing airlines like this withdraw from Canada

thenoflyzone Jun 27, 2022 12:51 AM

AC has been serving YYZ-TLV since 1995.
YUL-TLV was launched in 2017 as a summer seasonal 2x weekly service, and is now running summer seasonal 3x weekly. I wouldn't call that "adding a ton of capacity."

According to this link, they will use the frames freed up to launch other routes. That tells me they are managing yields. Doesn't mean YYZ was losing money. Simply means they think they can make more money with that frame somewhere else. YYZ is the most expensive airport in the world to operate to, after all.

They are currently serving YYZ 3x weekly. That's pretty weak, considering AC has daily service.

And yes, EL Al used to serve YMX back in the days, and even YUL in the late 90s, when international flights got transferred back to YUL.

esquire Jun 27, 2022 2:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9660232)
I never knew Time Air flew a (multiple?) King Air 90 in full Canadi>n livery in the late 80s. This photo was shot at YXD. Which communities did it fly to?

https://www.airhistory.net/photos/0188103.jpg

Same vibes :haha:

https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/6/59751_1447086212.jpg

Zmonkey Jun 27, 2022 3:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9660686)
AC has been serving YYZ-TLV since 1995.
YUL-TLV was launched in 2017 as a summer seasonal 2x weekly service, and is now running summer seasonal 3x weekly. I wouldn't call that "adding a ton of capacity."

According to this link, they will use the frames freed up to launch other routes. That tells me they are managing yields. Doesn't mean YYZ was losing money. Simply means they think they can make more money with that frame somewhere else. YYZ is the most expensive airport in the world to operate to, after all.

They are currently serving YYZ 3x weekly. That's pretty weak, considering AC has daily service.

And yes, EL Al used to serve YMX back in the days, and even YUL in the late 90s, when international flights got transferred back to YUL.

People are still saying Toronto is the most expensive airport in the world despite it not being true eh? Guess a bad story still sticks. It was never fully true.

Toronto had highest posted rates 12-14 years ago for many airlines (never Air Canada whos landing fees are basically $0 at Toronto), but included everything (stands, overnight parking, check in couters etc), other airports charged extra. 7-8 years ago Toronto changed its pricing model to be like everyone else. Still expensive, but not most expensive. And they offer massive credits if you choose non peak times or to keep people flying in. For example Flair found it cheaper to fly to Toronto vs Hamilton.

Airboy Jun 27, 2022 4:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9660232)
I never knew Time Air flew a (multiple?) King Air 90 in full Canadi>n livery in the late 80s. This photo was shot at YXD. Which communities did it fly to?

https://www.airhistory.net/photos/0188103.jpg

Ft Chip sometimes to Peace River, Highlevel and once I had it up to Ft Nelson.

thenoflyzone Jun 27, 2022 4:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmonkey (Post 9661071)
People are still saying Toronto is the most expensive airport in the world despite it not being true eh? Guess a bad story still sticks. It was never fully true.

Toronto had highest posted rates 12-14 years ago for many airlines (never Air Canada whos landing fees are basically $0 at Toronto), but included everything (stands, overnight parking, check in couters etc), other airports charged extra. 7-8 years ago Toronto changed its pricing model to be like everyone else. Still expensive, but not most expensive. And they offer massive credits if you choose non peak times or to keep people flying in. For example Flair found it cheaper to fly to Toronto vs Hamilton.

Be that as it may, YYZ is still one of the most expensive in the world. Whether you are 1st of 5th, makes no difference, honestly.

I know AC has negotiated a long term agreement with the GTAA, but most other foreign carriers don't have that privilege, including El Al.

A lot of LCCs have been flooding into Israel and TLV in the last 9 years since they signed an open skies deal with the EU. The likes of Ryanair, Wizzair flooding in with dozens of destinations and lower airfares doesn't help a high cost airline like El Al. Add to the fact that they only fly 6 days a week, means passengers often go looking for flights elsewhere.

This is why I am not surprised by the closure of WAW. Both Ryanair and Wizzair fly from there to TLV, not to mention LOT.

BRU is a bit surprising. Only 1 other competitor, same as YYZ. They've already reduced YYZ to a skeleton schedule anyways. Considering your competitor is flying daily flights, the least you could do to compete is to offer the maximum you can, 6x weekly. But they haven't bothered doing even that in a long time. Better to just kill off the route if they can make more money elsewhere.

zahav Jun 27, 2022 6:20 PM

As I said, El Al is a very important airline symbolically, so I think even just adding 3x weekly YUL would've compounded the route issues, and added to a decision like this. It's really too bad, Canada is one of the largest Jewish populations so losing El Al is sad. Obviously they are a business and need to make money. But what they provided was more than just a business to people in Israel and overseas, it was really a link symbolically. And I think they kept many routes for this reason. So seeing it cut meant they really really couldn't keep it going, because believe me, this is an airline that has prestige by connecting many of the world's major Jewish populations, so they had to think long and hard.

thenoflyzone Jun 28, 2022 4:33 PM

^ Well, If El Al is all that important for the Jewish community of Toronto, then hopefully they'll bring the route back in a couple of years, when/if the market conditions are more favorable.

El Al cut MIA several years back as well but has since brought it back. Hopefully YYZ will be the same.

In other news, AC cutting July capacity out of YUL and YYZ. Most likely related to staff shortages.

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220627-acjul22

Quote:

Air Canada during the week of 20JUN22 filed service reductions on North America routes from Montreal and Toronto, for the month of July 2022. Based on schedule comparison 19JUN22 vs 26JUN22, planned adjustment includes the following.

Montreal North America departure for July 2022
as of 19JUN22: 4012 flights, 475139 seats
as of 26JUN22: 3783 flights, 456410 seats (5.7% flight reductions)

Toronto North America departure for July 2022
as of 19JUN22: 7609 flights, 959726 seats
as of 26JUN22: 7316 flights, 935210 seats (3.9% flight reductions)

Montreal – Bathurst 31 > 18
Montreal – Boston 124 > 93
Montreal – Moncton 93 > 62
Montreal – Newark 124 > 108
Montreal – New York LaGuardia 155 > 139
Montreal – Ottawa 247 > 216
Montreal – Pittsburgh 31 > 27
Montreal – Quebec City 146 > 115
Montreal – Toronto 427 > 436-437 (Service increase)
Montreal – Toronto City 226 > 197
Toronto – Boston 187 > 157
Toronto – Chicago O’Hare 217 > 186
Toronto – Detroit 124 > 93
Toronto – Fort Lauderdale 62 > 64 (Service increase)
Toronto – London ON 124 > 118
Toronto – New York LaGuardia 281 > 261
Toronto – North Bay 62 > 31
Toronto – Ottawa 311 > 280
Toronto – Timmins 93 > 62
Toronto – Windsor 155 > 124
Toronto City – Ottawa 82 > 67

Air Canada during the month of July 2022 suspends following North America routes to/from Montreal:
Montreal – Baltimore/Washington 01JUL22 – 31JUL22
Montreal – Kelowna 01JUL22 – 31JUL22

Dominion301 Jun 28, 2022 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airboy (Post 9661111)
Ft Chip sometimes to Peace River, Highlevel and once I had it up to Ft Nelson.

That’s amazing. How many King Air 90s were in the fleet?

Nowadays we talk about the death of the 19, 37 and 50 seaters and CP’s regional airline at one time flew six seaters.

Dominion301 Jun 28, 2022 10:56 PM

For the first time in a long, long time AC are going to operate internationally out of YEG.

After a 10.5 year hiatus YEG-CUN returns on AC twice weekly on the 7M8.

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220628-acnw22cun

SpongeG Jun 28, 2022 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9660608)
This is surprising..

EL AL ISRAEL AIRLINES CLOSING BOOKINGS ON 3 ROUTES FROM LATE-OCT 2022
NW22
Published at 0400GMT 26JUN22

El Al Israel Airlines in the last few days closed reservation for on selected markets. As of 26JUN22, following routes are no longer available for reservation for travel on/after 30OCT22, including summer 2023 season on/after 25MAR23:

Tel Aviv – Brussels 2 weekly 737-800
Tel Aviv – Toronto 2 weekly 787-9 (El Al served Toronto since April 1986; approximate)
Tel Aviv – Warsaw 5 weekly 737-800/-900

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220626-lynw22

This route was pretty important for a lot of people travelling to Israel, non-Jewish people may not get it, but El Al is more than just an airline, it is really symbolic in North America especially. This is obviously a result of AC growing the route and from YUL (El Al does not fly to YUL, but probably did in the Mirabel days?). But AC really adding a ton of capacity on the route was the death knell fore sure. Don't like seeing airlines like this withdraw from Canada

I flew El Al in the 80's from Montreal Mirabel. I think it was 1983.

thenoflyzone Jun 29, 2022 9:45 PM

Well YUL has been a total shit show these last couple of weeks. AC can't keep up with demand. A lot of flights are delayed, canceled, creating long lineups at the airport. There's also unaccounted baggage everywhere apparently, due to all the delays/cancelations.

ADM's CEO mentioned today that international traffic is at pre-pandemic levels currently (which is good to see, but it comes with problems !), and that they might be forced to cancel flights/destinations entirely this summer because they can't keep up with the demand.

Link in french only

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...ction-services

AC already canceled YUL-BWI and YLW for July. More might follow.

I heard through a friend that even AC managers at YUL are rolling up their sleeves, and working on the ramp, cleaning planes and loading/unloading baggage. Apparently every department is extremely short staffed.

Europe isn't any better. I keep hearing AC flights coming back from Europe will little to no baggage.

It's going to be a fun summer.

FlyYOW Jun 29, 2022 10:06 PM

I’m coming around to the MoT’s calls for airline accountability in this mess. I sympathize with the innocent people going through these horrors…not with the people who caused them.

CivicBlues Jun 29, 2022 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9663626)
Well YUL has been a total shit show these last couple of weeks. AC can't keep up with demand. A lot of flights are delayed, canceled, creating long lineups at the airport. There's also unaccounted baggage everywhere apparently, due to all the delays/cancelations.

ADM's CEO mentioned today that international traffic is at pre-pandemic levels currently (which is good to see, but it comes with problems !), and that they might be forced to cancel flights/destinations entirely this summer because they can't keep up with the demand.

Link in french only

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...ction-services

AC already canceled YUL-BWI and YLW for July. More might follow.

I heard through a friend that even AC managers at YUL are rolling up their sleeves, and working on the ramp, cleaning planes and loading/unloading baggage. Apparently every department is extremely short staffed.

Europe isn't any better. I keep hearing AC flights coming back from Europe will little to no baggage.

It's going to be a fun summer.

Whelp I'm flying to France in October via YUL. Hope they sort their shit out by then. Everyone should be back to school/work by then right?? RIGHT??

thenoflyzone Jun 29, 2022 11:31 PM

I think you’ll be fine by then..

I’m flying this Saturday. No chance they sort out this mess by then. I’m going to be in the thick of it!

whatnext Jun 29, 2022 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyYOW (Post 9663637)
I’m coming around to the MoT’s calls for airline accountability in this mess. I sympathize with the innocent people going through these horrors…not with the people who caused them.

It's all of their fault. CATSA underpays and I guess a lot of their people left during Covid layoffs. AC laid off an/or offered retirement packages to their staff and were left flat-footed when travel bounced back. Haven't heard if it is as bad at WS.

casper Jun 29, 2022 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9663710)
It's all of their fault. CATSA underpays and I guess a lot of their people left during Covid layoffs. AC laid off an/or offered retirement packages to their staff and were left flat-footed when travel bounced back. Haven't heard if it is as bad at WS.

WestJets call center is almost impossible to talk to. It is almost like there are no humans that work there.

Have not noticed anything on any of the WestJet flights I have taken.

whatnext Jun 30, 2022 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9663733)
WestJets call center is almost impossible to talk to. It is almost like there are no humans that work there.

Have not noticed anything on any of the WestJet flights I have taken.

I have heard from friends of lost luggage recently and the impossibility of getting through to WS as you say.

FlyYOW Jun 30, 2022 2:07 AM

AC just sent an email apologizing in advance for the incoming July/August slash and burn.

thenoflyzone Jun 30, 2022 10:24 AM

According to data from FlightAware, 58% of Air Canada flights scheduled for yesterday were delayed, which is the worst percentage among all the airlines listed by the platform.

Yesterday, 37% of flights were delayed in YUL, and 41% in YYZ, which places them respectively in the 8th and 6th place in terms of airports with the worst delay rate in the world.

esquire Jun 30, 2022 2:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9663783)
I have heard from friends of lost luggage recently and the impossibility of getting through to WS as you say.

Been seeing social media pics lately of the piles of baggage in airports. You kind of expect it in the big, busy hubs but even in Winnipeg the baggage claim area is nuts with stacks of suitcases all over the place. Not the most encouraging feeling when I'm about to set off on a two week family vacation :uhh:

YYCguys Jun 30, 2022 4:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9663710)
It's all of their fault. CATSA underpays and I guess a lot of their people left during Covid layoffs. AC laid off an/or offered retirement packages to their staff and were left flat-footed when travel bounced back. Haven't heard if it is as bad at WS.

Right before the pandemic, WS contracted out above the wing airport services at all airports except in YYC, YYZ, and YVR. It’s been hard for those companies to hire and keep staff. From check in to baggage services to wheelchair services, there are lines and delays. It’s frustrating and hope things will smooth out soon!

Base Jun 30, 2022 4:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 9664310)
Right before the pandemic, WS contracted out above the wing airport services at all airports except in YYC, YYZ, and YVR. It’s been hard for those companies to hire and keep staff. From check in to baggage services to wheelchair services, there are lines and delays. It’s frustrating and hope things will smooth out soon!

I believe YEG was also included in airports that were not contracted out.

https://worldairlinenews.com/2020/06...rt-operations/

Dominion301 Jun 30, 2022 6:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9663626)
Well YUL has been a total shit show these last couple of weeks. AC can't keep up with demand. A lot of flights are delayed, canceled, creating long lineups at the airport. There's also unaccounted baggage everywhere apparently, due to all the delays/cancelations.

ADM's CEO mentioned today that international traffic is at pre-pandemic levels currently (which is good to see, but it comes with problems !), and that they might be forced to cancel flights/destinations entirely this summer because they can't keep up with the demand.

Link in french only

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...ction-services

AC already canceled YUL-BWI and YLW for July. More might follow.

I heard through a friend that even AC managers at YUL are rolling up their sleeves, and working on the ramp, cleaning planes and loading/unloading baggage. Apparently every department is extremely short staffed.

Europe isn't any better. I keep hearing AC flights coming back from Europe will little to no baggage.

It's going to be a fun summer.

I heard on the radio last night a man account how is was trying to fly SDF-ORD-YUL-YQM and the chaos that was YUL. He gave up waiting for his bag after 2 hours and then the following day a friend of his coming from overseas spotted his bag in the mess and texted him a pic. The man going to YQM tried to retrieve his bag as he was still stuck in Montreal and no luck. It eventually rejoined him in Moncton a week later.

I personally don't have a lot of sympathy for AC. It's largely self-inflicted.

thenoflyzone Jun 30, 2022 7:13 PM

^ A lot of stories out there ! And I agree, the airlines and airports are to blame.

A tourist from France has been waiting 9 days for his bags to arrive at YUL.

https://www.tvanouvelles.ca/2022/06/...depuis-9-jours

esquire Jun 30, 2022 10:57 PM

I am returning home from YHZ via YUL next month... I'm guessing it could be a while before my bags make it back to Winnipeg :haha:

SpongeG Jul 1, 2022 12:51 AM

I'm flying next Saturday to Mexico, hopefully it goes though, how much advance notice would they give? We planned to not take any checked bags so that's a plus.

European airports are having the same issue an dmany flights there cancelled due to lack of Airport staff.

Airport chaos: All countries reporting major delays and queues as problems sweep Europe

https://www.express.co.uk/travel/art...n-Portugal-evg

JHikka Jul 1, 2022 1:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone
According to data from FlightAware, 58% of Air Canada flights scheduled for yesterday were delayed, which is the worst percentage among all the airlines listed by the platform.

A few of the F1 media and teams were complaining about YUL for the race in Montreal, and in particular complaining about Air Canada. I guess they were cancelling and delaying flights and not giving any reasons. Leclerc's initial flight to Montreal was outright cancelled.

My partner is returning from Europe shortly so hopefully her flight goes well. No checked bags. ;)

thewave46 Jul 1, 2022 1:29 PM

Unpopular opinion: Flying got too cheap and too massive. People expected that to continue forever. The Ryanair effect, writ large.

That cheapness was the product of slicing every cost out of it. Pay the baggage guy peanuts, cram more seats in, trim every frill, enjoy the falling cost of oil, and ride high on the foolish investment dollars of people chasing potential pennies with buckets of dollars by starting ULCC airlines. It was great while it lasted.

Until COVID upended the works and keeping costs low meant letting everyone go. The great reset; only a few industries got hit harder.

Who wants to come back to haul baggage off an airplane in the freezing cold or sweltering hot for minimum wage in a country of 5% unemployment? Apparently not enough people.

Combine the labour shortage and high oil prices and I think a lot of the bottom is going to fall out of the el-cheapo end of the market. A 737 costs about the same to fill with fuel, regardless of airline. Hard jobs for low wages are going to be hard to fill. Pilots are is short supply, why fly for sketchy upstart when Air Canada and Westjet offer more stability?

Golden ages have to end some time. My suspicion is that the golden age of cheap flying will soon.

casper Jul 1, 2022 4:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9665124)
Unpopular opinion: Flying got too cheap and too massive. People expected that to continue forever. The Ryanair effect, writ large.

That cheapness was the product of slicing every cost out of it. Pay the baggage guy peanuts, cram more seats in, trim every frill, enjoy the falling cost of oil, and ride high on the foolish investment dollars of people chasing potential pennies with buckets of dollars by starting ULCC airlines. It was great while it lasted.

Until COVID upended the works and keeping costs low meant letting everyone go. The great reset; only a few industries got hit harder.

Who wants to come back to haul baggage off an airplane in the freezing cold or sweltering hot for minimum wage in a country of 5% unemployment? Apparently not enough people.

Combine the labour shortage and high oil prices and I think a lot of the bottom is going to fall out of the el-cheapo end of the market. A 737 costs about the same to fill with fuel, regardless of airline. Hard jobs for low wages are going to be hard to fill. Pilots are is short supply, why fly for sketchy upstart when Air Canada and Westjet offer more stability?

Golden ages have to end some time. My suspicion is that the golden age of cheap flying will soon.

Honestly seeing the ULCC go away is a positive.

I expect government regulation will drive some of it. Requiring an airline to do everything reasonable to live up to its commitment is something Air Canada and WestJet use to be good at. The ULCC not so much.

Denscity Jul 1, 2022 4:34 PM

AC Express q400 flights to Vancouver start a 2nd daily flight from here today. 5pm arrival time.

Dominion301 Jul 1, 2022 6:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 9664310)
Right before the pandemic, WS contracted out above the wing airport services at all airports except in YYC, YYZ, and YVR. It’s been hard for those companies to hire and keep staff. From check in to baggage services to wheelchair services, there are lines and delays. It’s frustrating and hope things will smooth out soon!

They kept YEG too. I have no sympathy for them though elsewhere. The above wing staff in airports were the ones still drinking the teal kook-aid, didn’t unionize and then were given the pepto bismol aka pink slips.

hehehe Jul 1, 2022 8:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9665397)
They kept YEG too. I have no sympathy for them though elsewhere. The above wing staff in airports were the ones still drinking the teal kook-aid, didn’t unionize and then were given the pepto bismol aka pink slips.

I don't know, I have sympathy for all workers, whether they drink the kool aid or not. A job is a job and these people just wanted to provide for their families.

wonder if also keeping above wing staff in airports like YYJ, YLW, YXE, YWG, YHZ, YQR, would've been a good idea. At least those are western airports that have a significant amount of WS flights.

Dominion301 Jul 2, 2022 5:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9665453)
I don't know, I have sympathy for all workers, whether they drink the kool aid or not. A job is a job and these people just wanted to provide for their families.

wonder if also keeping above wing staff in airports like YYJ, YLW, YXE, YWG, YHZ, YQR, would've been a good idea. At least those are western airports that have a significant amount of WS flights.

Oh I have total sympathy for those laid off. They were sadly fed by senior management the “culture” kool aid until it was too late for them to unionize.

YHZ is western ;)

May as well throw in YOW and YUL too to round out the larger stations that are now contracted out.

casper Jul 2, 2022 6:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9665691)
Oh I have total sympathy for those laid off. They were sadly fed by senior management the “culture” kool aid until it was too late for them to unionize.

YHZ is western ;)

May as well throw in YOW and YUL too to round out the larger stations that are now contracted out.

Culture is important and you can quickly figure out the culture of a company. You can count on companies sticking to their culture in most cases.

The issue here is WestJet switched owners, management etc. The old culture was replaced by a new culture. My interaction with WestJet is as a passenger and someone with status in their frequent flyer program (or should I say attempt at a frequent flyer program). I have noticed.

There is an old saying, "Management gets the union it deserves". WestJet demonstrated its staff need a union and its also demonstrated that they don't deserve the loyalty and commitment they were getting before.

I do hope some day they go back to having their own people at the Canadian stations or at least train the contractors they have to be able to rebook passengers when flights get messed up.

Instead of WestJet, next week I am flying Air Canada (no checked baggage). Have not been on AC in while. In this case AC had better flight options between two major Western Canada cities. Price was very close, AC was slightly less.

hehehe Jul 2, 2022 4:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9665691)
Oh I have total sympathy for those laid off. They were sadly fed by senior management the “culture” kool aid until it was too late for them to unionize.

YHZ is western ;)

May as well throw in YOW and YUL too to round out the larger stations that are now contracted out.

Sorry I misinterpreted your comment. I didn't mean to say YHZ is western oops! But I agree that YOW/YUL as well could've had their above-the-wing staff kept. All of those stations have enough flights to have their own WS staff, which would help alleviate some of the current operational issues WS is struggling with.

Alexcaban Jul 2, 2022 6:32 PM

I just noticed that AC has removed the YYZ-YUL-MXP start point from YYZ.
Flight originates at terminates in YUL.

YUL-MXP would leave super late because the inbound from YYZ was always late.

LO 044 Jul 3, 2022 3:48 AM

Here’s my family’s little story. We flew YEG-YYZ-WAW on June 29. A couple of points so far.

- YEG security quick with no issues.
- Confirmed that I love flying AC’s 320 over any 737 product.
- I have never seen YYZ’s international pier so busy in my life. Huge lineups at gates and almost as huge lineups to get food. We had AC lounge access and I would have paid to get in based on the lineups.
- LO flights late every day for the last week including our 2.5 hr delay.
- The LO flight seemed like 80% were connecting at WAW and 50% to outside of Poland but purely an educated guess based on tons of non Polish speaking people.
- LO’s 787 economy seats are wide enough but the pitch makes it hard to watch the screen in front unless everyone reclines.
- LO’s catering is the worst I have ever seen it but the 787 ride was fairly comfortable.
- 1 out of 3 checked bags didn’t make it. Weren’t loaded out of YYZ by AC or LO’s LHS services. Luckily we received our luggage last night. We proactively split up our 3 bags evenly so we didn’t lose the “kids clothes only” or the “adults clothes only”. I recommend everyone do this who flies just in case. Like I said we consider ourselves lucky.
- This was an Aeroplan ticket so I’m curious if I can get any compensation for the delayed flights.

Our return is HAM-DUB on Ryanair and DUB-YYZ-YEG on AC. We’ll see how that goes in a month.

LO 044 Jul 3, 2022 3:58 AM

One more thing. We flew with only two decent sized carry-ons packed with essential items. Normally we would have flown with five but the Ryanair flight really messed that up since Ryanair’s carry-on is a bagged lunch size. And even if you pay for their version of a carry-on, it is still much smaller than any other standard airline carry-on. You basically need Ryanair styled luggage to accomplish that.

Basically, with all the delays and lost luggage I would recommend to go with extra carry-on bags where possible.

AuxTown Jul 3, 2022 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9666223)
Here’s my family’s little story. We flew YEG-YYZ-WAW on June 29. A couple of points so far.

- YEG security quick with no issues.
- Confirmed that I love flying AC’s 320 over any 737 product.
- I have never seen YYZ’s international pier so busy in my life. Huge lineups at gates and almost as huge lineups to get food. We had AC lounge access and I would have paid to get in based on the lineups.
- LO flights late every day for the last week including our 2.5 hr delay.
- The LO flight seemed like 80% were connecting at WAW and 50% to outside of Poland but purely an educated guess based on tons of non Polish speaking people.
- LO’s 787 economy seats are wide enough but the pitch makes it hard to watch the screen in front unless everyone reclines.
- LO’s catering is the worst I have ever seen it but the 787 ride was fairly comfortable.
- 1 out of 3 checked bags didn’t make it. Weren’t loaded out of YYZ by AC or LO’s LHS services. Luckily we received our luggage last night. We proactively split up our 3 bags evenly so we didn’t lose the “kids clothes only” or the “adults clothes only”. I recommend everyone do this who flies just in case. Like I said we consider ourselves lucky.
- This was an Aeroplan ticket so I’m curious if I can get any compensation for the delayed flights.

Our return is HAM-DUB on Ryanair and DUB-YYZ-YEG on AC. We’ll see how that goes in a month.

Thanks for your summary. We are doing YOW-EWR-ORD in a couple weeks for Disney and I am dreading possible delays or missing luggage. Mix and matching our luggage sounds like a good idea!

VaskoYOW Jul 3, 2022 5:51 PM

We are doing YOW-EWR-CUN in September and hoping some of the delays/luggage issues are solved by than. We wanted to avoid connecting through YYZ due to some of the horror stories. We'll also definitely mix and match our luggages just in case.

zahav Jul 3, 2022 6:42 PM

Don't count on AC compensating you, unfortunately. I was on an Aeroplan reward ticket in February YVR-YUL-YHZ. As "luck" would have it, the airport was full of Olympic athletes that day arriving back from Beijing, and connecting back on various flights across the country. So needless to say, it was pretty chaotic. My flight to YUL was an A330, and packed. First we were delayed due to late inbound aircraft. Then delayed due to waiting for connecting luggage (which was not just bags, it was all the Olympian's sporting equipment like skis, extra sports items etc. so I guess they didn't want a PR disaster by having the gold medal team arrive back without their stuff?). Then we were delayed because they had to do an airside engine start, and the equipment was on the other side of the airport. Needless to say, these delays all compounded into a very late departure. I knew I was going to miss my connecting flight to YHZ, and it was the last one of the night.

Sure enough we were super late into YUL, and myself and tons of others (including Olympians) missed their connecting flights. Literally the only people who got called specficially when the plane landed were pax for Bogota. Not sure why they were special lol. Everyone else had already been rebooked by the time we deplaned, we just had to pick up our new boarding passes. This was only around 9-9:30ish. Since my flight was rebooked for the next morning, I assumed a hotel would be provided. Not so. Air Canada put the sole blame for the delay on "Airport Operations", which I found out meant they blamed YVR baggage systems somehow (even though it is airline crews who transport bags from plane to plane, I guess they blamed YVR's airside baggage sorter or something?). So they conveniently neglected to take into consideration the air start (airline problem), late inbound aircraft (airline problem), and the fact the crew CHOSE to wait for connecting bags, when they are supposed to prioritize on time departure). By waiting for the bags, they actually caused far more disruption due to missed connections.

Needless to say, I did choose to spring for a hotel (NOT CHEAP, it was the fancy airport in the terminal, since they rebooked me at the crack of dawn, I didn't want to muck around with transportation back to the airport early morning, not worth it). When I contacted Aeroplan and Air Canada from Nova Scotia, it was a polite but firm "the problem was out of our control and was solely due to airport operations. If you have insurance they should help". But absolutely no coverage of my hotel, meals, nada. It didn't spoil me on Air Canada, I am not the melodramatic, but it was a real eye operner that such an obvious airline f*ck up was totally shrugged off as the airport's fault. I worked for an airline for years, I know YVR very well, this delay was Air Canada's doing.

Sorry for the long saga, but I thought the details were important to know. So I would certainly not be surprised if Air Canada puts all of the blame on the airport/CATSA/etc for the current delays plaguing our airports. If they wouldn't reimburse gold medal teams for missing their connections (on the offical Olympic airline literally waving the flag), then hard to imagine they have any intention of helping today's travellers

Hali87 Jul 3, 2022 8:55 PM

It will be interesting to see how things turn out over the long-term but YHZ seems like it's becoming a more viable transfer hub for longer-distance trips. At the same time, there is now little to no service between YHZ and the NB/PEI airports so it has effectively stopped acting as a hub in that capacity.

Current overseas non-stop routes - mostly daily or near-daily:

London (LHR and LGW)
Paris
St. Pierre (3x/week)
Dublin
Glasgow
Frankfurt

Current US non-stop routes:

Boston (multiple/day)
Philadelphia (multiple/day)
Orlando (weekly)
Washington (DCA - weekly)

Current CA non-stop routes (mostly multiple/day or near-daily):

St. John's
Gander
Deer Lake
Goose Bay

Sydney

Moncton (2x/week)

Montreal

Ottawa
Toronto (YYZ and YTZ)
Hamilton
Waterloo

Winnipeg

Calgary
Edmonton

Vancouver


Many of these routes are seasonal but currently YHZ seems to be the next-biggest transfer hub after YYZ, YUL, YVR and YYC, and doesn't seem to be nearly as chaotic as YYZ or YUL right now. YEG is roughly similar.

In addition to cheaper and more convenient flights from YHZ, a nice bonus is that in practice many/most of the people traveling these routes would otherwise have transferred at YYZ, which takes some pressure off that airport, as does the increased service to (or through) YHM and YKF.


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