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Dominion301 Nov 20, 2021 9:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9455966)
While Air Transat could be valuable to have, wouldn't this take pax off their Europe flights from YYC, YYZ or maybe YVR and make them connect in YUL and YYZ on Air Transat instead?

I imagine WS will only codeshare with TS on city pairings that WS alone doesn't serve.

On a separate note, the Calgary Herald the other day had an article about how YYC's recovery is faster than any other airport in Canada: https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...urprising-rate

hollywoodcory Nov 20, 2021 9:40 PM

In this week's update, WS has extended its modified schedule to mid-March. It's pretty much the same as January with a few extra flights thrown in for spring break/the long weekend.

Maybe now they'll finally update this page:
https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/flight...ional-schedule

Dominion301 Nov 20, 2021 10:18 PM

If anyone's wondering what the latest (and most likely to get off the ground) iteration of what Canada Jetlines will look like, they want to be a clone of Sunwing:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/canad...130000464.html

Quote:

About Canada Jetlines
Canada Jetlines is a well-capitalized, value, leisure carrier that intends to utilize a fleet of Airbus320 aircraft to service popular sun destinations targeting a start in the spring of 2022, subject to Canadian Transport Agency and Transport Canada approval. The all-Canadian carrier was developed to provide the Canadian consumer with more choices and more economical options to fly to sun-destinations in the southern US, Caribbean, and Mexico. With a projected growth of 15 aircrafts by 2025, Canada Jetlines aims to offer the best-in-class operating economics, customer comfort and fly-by-wire technology, providing a guest centric experience from the first touchpoint. Canada Jetlines will use a state-of-the-art web booking platform, making the turnkey solution available to tour operators along with consumers, and to generate revenue on reservations and planned ancillary sales. The efficient aircraft design merged with the experience of the management suite allows for affordable flight options without sacrificing quality or convenience.

whatnext Nov 21, 2021 7:50 PM

Don't think anyone mentioned it but AC is exiting the federal gov't support program they negotiated. The feds still own 6% of the airline as a result of the stock they bought, Given Freeland's musing about AC performance reviews, I'd expect AC to try and buy those back soon.

Air Canada walks away from $4B in federal aid as liquidity rebounds
Noah Zivitz, BNN Bloomberg

Air Canada gave the clearest signal yet on Friday that its financial condition is substantially improving after dealing with the darkest days of the pandemic.

In a release, the airline said it was exiting the government support program after tapping less than half of the $5.375 billion that it lined up in April.

Air Canada said it only availed itself of $1.2 billion in federal financing earmarked for refunding tickets that were originally meant to be non-refundable, and that $3.975 billion was not used...


https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/air-cana...unds-1.1684438

thenoflyzone Nov 21, 2021 9:38 PM

^ Crazy how things can change in just 7 months.

They cried for government cash for a year, and when they finally get it, they no longer need it.

It's partly a sign that the market is recovering faster than expected. But also, it shows that the government negotiated well with AC before dishing out the cash. The fact they want to give it back is because there are strings attached with that cash. Strings they're keen on getting rid of.

This is also why WS rejected government bailout from the get go.

casper Nov 21, 2021 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9457457)
^ Crazy how things can change in just 7 months.

They cried for government cash for a year, and when they finally get it, they no longer need it.

It's partly a sign that the market is recovering faster than expected. But also, it shows that the government negotiated well with AC before dishing out the cash. The fact they want to give it back is because there are strings attached with that cash. Strings they're keen on getting rid of.

This is also why WS rejected government bailout from the get go.

That is an indication the government got it right. They provided a back stop that ensured the airlines would not fail and Canadians would still have air service. At the same time they made the cost of using so high that it would only be used if required and the companies would back out as quickly as possible.

J81 Nov 22, 2021 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9453442)
Wasn't that 1-stop service?

No sir. I believe it was 3x weekly way back around 2003 I believe. At the time WS experimented with YQM as an Atlantic hub before they served YHZ. There were 2x YYZ-YQM with one of those trips continuing to YYT 4x weekly and YQX the remaining 3X weekly. Daily YHM-YQM as well. There was also YOW-YQM on Saturdays as well as YEG but i cant remember the days that ran exactly. It didnt last long though. Maybe 12-18 months. I have a picture of 6 737s overnighting in YQM that winter.

The 1 stop you’re probably thinking about ran YQM-YHM-YEG after WS set up shop in YHZ right up until Encore took over YQM service.

Dominion301 Nov 22, 2021 4:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9457457)
^ Crazy how things can change in just 7 months.

They cried for government cash for a year, and when they finally get it, they no longer need it.

It's partly a sign that the market is recovering faster than expected. But also, it shows that the government negotiated well with AC before dishing out the cash. The fact they want to give it back is because there are strings attached with that cash. Strings they're keen on getting rid of.

This is also why WS rejected government bailout from the get go.

I agree about them getting it right. WS also had the added benefit of parent company Onex as a whole remaining solidly profitable during the pandemic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J81 (Post 9457566)
No sir. I believe it was 3x weekly way back around 2003 I believe. At the time WS experimented with YQM as an Atlantic hub before they served YHZ. There were 2x YYZ-YQM with one of those trips continuing to YYT 4x weekly and YQX the remaining 3X weekly. Daily YHM-YQM as well. There was also YOW-YQM on Saturdays as well as YEG but i cant remember the days that ran exactly. It didnt last long though. Maybe 12-18 months. I have a picture of 6 737s overnighting in YQM that winter.

The 1 stop you’re probably thinking about ran YQM-YHM-YEG after WS set up shop in YHZ right up until Encore took over YQM service.

The only one of those non-YHM/YYZ ones that I remember from that era was the weekly YOW Saturday flight. I remember WS' network planning east of Manitoba was rather bizarre to say the least. They were flying YOW-YYT and YQX eastbound nonstop 4x & 3x weekly respectively but via YHM in the other direction. YOW-YQM was Saturdays only and YQT-YOW was nonstop daily eastbound but only 1x weekly nonstop westbound. The rest stopped at YHM first. Thanks for all that early Atlantic WS history.

Dominion301 Nov 22, 2021 4:17 AM

YOW's October pax stats are out featuring the first transborder passengers since June 2020:

Sector / Oct-20 / Oct-21 / % Chg.
Dom: 38,551 / 175,215 / +354.5%
TB: 0 / 160 / #DIV/0! - evidently the Airport Authority have stopped counting hockey charter pax using the terminal, otherwise this would be about double & September would have been 50-60 pax.
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0! - coming with next month's report
TTL: 38,551 / 175,375 / +354.9%

Sector / YTD 2020 / YTD 2021 / % Change
Dom: 955,631 / 834,172 / -12.7%
TB: 163,093 / 160 / -99.9%
Int'l: 168,382 / 0 / -100.0%
TTL: 1,287,106 / 834,332 / -35.2%

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2019
Dom: 910,578 / -77.2%
TB: 160 / -100.0%
Int'l: 0 / -100.0%
TTL: 910,738 / -82.2%

The meaningful pandemic pax stats
Month-Over-Month Change
Sector / Sep-21 / Oct-21 / % Change
Dom: 172,778 / 175,215 / +1.4%
TB: 0 / 160 / #DIV/0!
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 172,778 / 175,375 / +1.5%
Avg/Day: 5,759 / 5,657 / -1.8% - a slight decline vs September. YOW is now back to about 39% of pre-pandemic traffic levels in Sept & Oct.

thenoflyzone Nov 23, 2021 8:26 PM

Flair started Vancouver-Burbank the other day. Apparently the inaugural flight only had 11 passengers on board ! Yikes...

Speaking of inaugurals, Air France starts PTP-YUL today. A320 operating, initially 1x weekly, going to 2x weekly as of Dec 10.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AF624

Also, in unrelated news, AC is fined $4.5 million by US DOT for delays in giving out refunds on flights to/from the United States during the pandemic.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air...ates-1.6258394

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9457660)



The only one of those non-YHM/YYZ ones that I remember from that era was the weekly YOW Saturday flight. I remember WS' network planning east of Manitoba was rather bizarre to say the least. They were flying YOW-YYT and YQX eastbound nonstop 4x & 3x weekly respectively but via YHM in the other direction. YOW-YQM was Saturdays only and YQT-YOW was nonstop daily eastbound but only 1x weekly nonstop westbound. The rest stopped at YHM first. Thanks for all that early Atlantic WS history.

You have a pretty good memory ! I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday, much less what was WS's maritime roster out of YOW 15 odd years ago.

esquire Nov 23, 2021 9:29 PM

I remember having to fly through YHM en route to YHZ as recently as fall 2009. That was the last time I flew through YHM... I think WS "de-hubbed" it around that time.

casper Nov 23, 2021 10:31 PM

[QUOTE=thenoflyzone;9459449].....

Also, in unrelated news, AC is fined $4.5 million by US DOT for delays in giving out refunds on flights to/from the United States during the pandemic.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air...ates-1.6258394

Disappointing that it has taken this long. Punishment for airlines when they do things that are unethical should swift, public and immediate. They should be fined and shamed into proper behaviour.

Has WestJet and Swoop been fined yet?

Dominion301 Nov 24, 2021 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9459449)
Flair started Vancouver-Burbank the other day. Apparently the inaugural flight only had 11 passengers on board ! Yikes...

Speaking of inaugurals, Air France starts PTP-YUL today. A320 operating, initially 1x weekly, going to 2x weekly as of Dec 10.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/AF624

Also, in unrelated news, AC is fined $4.5 million by US DOT for delays in giving out refunds on flights to/from the United States during the pandemic.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air...ates-1.6258394



You have a pretty good memory ! I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday, much less what was WS's maritime roster out of YOW 15 odd years ago.

LOL. Funny thing is I don't remember what I had for lunch yesterday either.

As for Flair, was that 11 pax count on the inaugural outbound or the inbound? If it's the latter, that's to be expected. The F8 FLL-YOW inaugural on Oct. 31st had only 20 pax on it, while the outbound had about 115. Back in my airline days, even the inaugural of winter seasonal routes each season was usually a dog with loads under 50%, but by the next flight or the following week loads would be up substantially and by the 3rd flight or week, flights would be in the mid to high 80s.

thewave46 Nov 24, 2021 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9459546)
I remember having to fly through YHM en route to YHZ as recently as fall 2009. That was the last time I flew through YHM... I think WS "de-hubbed" it around that time.

Some of my most memorable flights have been out of YHM.

Well, the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum at YHM.

Maybe one day I'll actually go inside the terminal.

Calfan12 Nov 24, 2021 9:57 AM

Air Transat (TS) Summer 2022 schedules is now out.

The only 4 routes in Western Canada they plan on flying ✈️ and operating to is:
Vancouver- Toronto
Vancouver-Montreal
Calgary-Toronto
Calgary-Montreal

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/simplefl...mmer-2022/amp/

thenoflyzone Nov 24, 2021 12:49 PM

With the WS codeshare, I can see them canceling those routes and using those A321s for more European flights instead. Unless there is a signifiant O&D component they are after, in which case they’ll keep them.

Dominion301 Nov 25, 2021 5:39 PM

AC are working with Jazz to temporarily convert a DH4 to help move goods around BC.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...815745990.html

kattiff Nov 26, 2021 6:57 AM

Air North gonna fly Toronto to Whitehorse & Yellowknife

caribb Nov 26, 2021 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kattiff (Post 9461629)
Air North gonna fly Toronto to Whitehorse & Yellowknife

Here’s the article link: https://canadianaviationnews.wordpre...ronto-ontario/

hollywoodcory Nov 26, 2021 7:27 PM

Pacific Coastal has applied to operate flights to the US for WS Link
https://www.regulations.gov/document...2021-0150-0001

Specifically mentions YYC/YVR-GEG.

Quote:

Pacific Coastal anticipates that its initial transborder operations will consist of two daily flights between Calgary (YYC) and Spokane, WA (GEG) and between Vancouver (YVR) and Spokane, WA (GEG), carrying passengers, property and mail using Saab 340B aircraft in accordance with the purchase capacity agreement with WestJet.

craner Nov 26, 2021 8:46 PM

I used to fly Calgary-Spokane in the early 90s on United.

Nicko999 Nov 27, 2021 3:19 AM

Not Canadian but it's good news for aviation in general. The US is almost back to its pre-pandemic levels when it comes to air travel. The remaining 10% is going to be the hardest to get.

U.S. screened highest number of air passengers since start of pandemic

Quote:

WASHINGTON, Nov 20 (Reuters) - The U.S. Transportation Security Administration screened 2.24 million airline passengers on Friday, the highest number of passengers since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, it announced on Saturday.

TSA spokesperson Lisa Farbstein announced the milestone on Twitter, saying it was the "highest checkpoint volume" since March 2020, when the pandemic took hold in the United States, bringing travel and business to a halt.

Earlier in the week, the TSA said it had expected to screen about 20 million air passengers during the busy Thanksgiving travel period - from Nov. 19 to Nov. 28 - and predicted volumes may be close to pre-pandemic levels.

Major U.S. airlines had predicted an uptick in air travel over the last few days.
Delta Air Lines said it expects to fly up to 5.6 million passengers from Friday through Nov. 30, nearly 300% over 2020's 2.2 million Delta passengers for the period but still below the 6.3 million passengers during the same period in 2019.

United Airlines said it anticipates more than 4.5 million passengers during the Thanksgiving travel period - about 88% of 2019 volume.
...
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/20/busin...tsa/index.html

Dominion301 Nov 27, 2021 4:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kattiff (Post 9461629)
Air North gonna fly Toronto to Whitehorse & Yellowknife

Wow look at that. Toronto connected to north of 60 for the first time. Will complement their service to Ottawa, the first of which since pre-pandemic will be a couple of XMAS holiday trips.

In Northern Ontario news, Sunwing are not going to operate to YSB, YAM & YYB blaming the uncertainty as to when those airports will be able to handle international flights again.

https://canadianaviationnews.wordpre...ult-ste-marie/

thenoflyzone Nov 28, 2021 2:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko999 (Post 9462249)
Not Canadian but it's good news for aviation in general. The US is almost back to its pre-pandemic levels when it comes to air travel. The remaining 10% is going to be the hardest to get.

U.S. screened highest number of air passengers since start of pandemic



https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/20/busin...tsa/index.html

Unfortunately the Canadian aviation market is nothing like the American one. Neither by size, nor scope.

2018 BTS T-100 data shows that out of 1.01 billion passenger that travelled in the United states that year (all carriers, foreign and domestic, combined), over 777 million were on domestic flights. That's 77% domestic, 23% international.

https://www.bts.dot.gov/newsroom/201...nes-us-flights

In Canada, the same year, out of a total of 160.6 million passengers, only 93 million were domestic. That's 58% domestic, 42% international.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...020005-eng.htm

So first and foremost, size. 777 million domestic vs 93 million domestic. And second, scope. the domestic/international ratio. Canadians rely far greater on international travel than the US market. At an airport like YUL, it's over 60% international passengers.

This explains why YYC's recovery post pandemic has been the fastest among Canada's major airports. Their passengers are mostly on domestic flights (~70%), just like most US airports. Whereas YYZ, YVR and YUL, where the passenger counts have a significant international component, will struggle until all foreign travel restrictions are lifted. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem like it will happen anytime soon, with this Omicron variant now gaining ground, meaning more restrictions coming....

thewave46 Nov 28, 2021 2:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9462859)
Unfortunately the Canadian aviation market is nothing like the American one.

2018 BTS T-100 data shows that out of 1.01 billion passenger that travelled in the United states that year (all carriers, foreign and domestic, combined), over 777 million were on domestic flights. That's 77% domestic, 23% international.

https://www.bts.dot.gov/newsroom/201...nes-us-flights

In Canada, international travel accounts for a far larger percentage than that. At an airport like YUL, it's over 60% international.

This explains why YYC's recovery post pandemic has been the fastest among Canada's major airports. Their passengers are mostly on domestic flights, just like most US airports. Whereas YYZ, YVR and YUL, where the passenger counts have a significant international component, will struggle until all foreign travel restrictions are lifted. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem like it will happen anytime soon, with this Omicron variant now gaining ground, meaning more restrictions coming....

I'd be curious about how much international travel is from the US to Canada. How much intercontinental travel difference there is between the two countries is another interesting question.

However, as you mention, the dynamics of the Canadian domestic air market are quite different.

For the domestic travel market, we're a highly seasonal and highly regional country. Domestic demand spikes in the summer and aside from Christmas, flatlines over the rest of the year. The bulk of our air travel takes place between 4 major clusters: Southern Ontario, Quebec, Alberta and Lower Mainland BC. Within those regions, travel is mostly by other means. The only two regions with significant overlap in mode of transportation are Southern Ontario and Quebec.

A lot of our international travel is US/sun based. Internationally, our demand shifts from sun destinations in winter to Europe in the summer.

Dominion301 Nov 29, 2021 5:18 AM

According to this excellent video, Canadian North are now down to their last 737-200 combi. It's apparently now scheduled for retirement by the end of 2022. Their 2nd last 732C was transferred recently to sister company Air Inuit augmenting that airline's 732C fleet to 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVGFtPkKW0I

thewave46 Nov 29, 2021 4:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9463244)
According to this excellent video, Canadian North are now down to their last 737-200 combi. It's apparently now scheduled for retirement by the end of 2022. Their 2nd last 732C was transferred recently to sister company Air Inuit augmenting that airline's 732C fleet to 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVGFtPkKW0I

Look at the teeny hairdryers (JT8Ds) on the 737-200.

For an aircraft that not too long ago was a workhorse of the sky in Canada, (Westjet, Canadian/AC, various northern operators), they're becoming quite the rare breed.

It's just Air Inuit, Nolinor and Glencore left in Canada, I think. I'm curious what will eventually be a replacement for gravel runway operations in the future.

nname Nov 29, 2021 8:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kattiff (Post 9461629)
Air North gonna fly Toronto to Whitehorse & Yellowknife

Another way to put this, Air North moves 2 of the 3 weekly Ontario flights from YOW to YYZ.

Dominion301 Nov 30, 2021 4:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9463722)
Another way to put this, Air North moves 2 of the 3 weekly Ontario flights from YOW to YYZ.

I don't know if you can look at it entirely that way as summer 2019 4N only flew YOW-YZF-YXY 2x weekly. It's more I think a case of a gradual return to service for the former route.

Dominion301 Nov 30, 2021 4:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9459546)
I remember having to fly through YHM en route to YHZ as recently as fall 2009. That was the last time I flew through YHM... I think WS "de-hubbed" it around that time.

For a good decade past the YHM dehubbing, WS on a summer-seasonal basis had YEG & YWG come in from the west & head east to YQM and YHZ with YHM connections still available...plus the year-round YYC flight was timed for connections too.

LO 044 Dec 1, 2021 5:28 AM

Can anyone out there explain to me how this new testing requirement will work for international travel?

If my return flight is CUN-YYZ-YEG or CUN-YVR-YEG, will i have to quarantine (until i get the results back) in YYZ or YVR? Or can I continue to YEG and quarantine at home. If the answer is the former then WS and AC can kiss my money goodbye.

hollywoodcory Dec 1, 2021 4:25 PM

WS has loaded YYC-LHR starting March 26, 2022 at 4x weekly.

WS18 YYC 20:30 - 12:00+1 LHR 789 2356
WS19 LHR 14:10 - 16:02 YYC 789 3467

YYC-LGW currently still remains scheduled once daily.

Calfan12 Dec 1, 2021 5:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9465127)
WS has loaded YYC-LHR starting March 26, 2022 at 4x weekly.

WS18 YYC 20:30 - 12:00+1 LHR 789 2356
WS19 LHR 14:10 - 16:02 YYC 789 3467

YYC-LGW currently still remains scheduled once daily.

Great!

Actually WestJet’s Facebook page mentions Calgary-London Gatwick (LGW) operating up to 4x weekly too like London Heathrow (LHR).

Though some changes are still possible. Will see as it gets closer.

hollywoodcory Dec 1, 2021 5:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9465169)
Great!

Actually WestJet’s Facebook page mentions Calgary-London Gatwick (LGW) operating up to 4x weekly too like London Heathrow (LHR).

Though some changes are still possible. Will see as it gets closer.

Where does it say this?

Quote:

Beginning in March 2022, we’ll have two options to get you from Calgary to London, England with the introduction of our non-stop route from YYC Calgary International Airport to London’s Heathrow Airport (LHR) on our 787 Dreamliner.
In addition to flights to Gatwick, this new route will operate four-times weekly, bringing you closer to London’s city center: https://ms.spr.ly/6180kI9kr
No where does it mention a change to LGW (yet).

Nicko999 Dec 2, 2021 3:53 AM

So I was driving someone to the airport today. It's the first time I've been to YUL since the start of the pandemic. Everything is still so quiet compared to 2019. So few cars vs what we know.

I will fly late December so we will see how busy is it inside then.

magee_b Dec 2, 2021 7:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9464854)
Can anyone out there explain to me how this new testing requirement will work for international travel?

If my return flight is CUN-YYZ-YEG or CUN-YVR-YEG, will i have to quarantine (until i get the results back) in YYZ or YVR? Or can I continue to YEG and quarantine at home. If the answer is the former then WS and AC can kiss my money goodbye.

The latest official info is available here - https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid

Lots of different case scenarios, so you have to select the scenario that fits your situation.

The only "new" requirements are for those originating in Botswana, Egypt, Eswatini, Lesotho, Malawi, Mozambique, Namibia, Nigeria, South Africa, or Zimbabwe

In general though, all air travellers on international flights to Canada need a PCR CoVID test prior to boarding their flight to Canada.

Quote:

If you qualify as a fully vaccinated traveller you are:

Required to show a pre-entry molecular test
Required to use ArriveCAN
Required to take an arrival test if selected
Exempt from quarantine
Exempt from Day-8 testing

If you are selected for a mandatory randomized arrival test, you:

Must take the arrival test as directed on the day you enter Canada. The test may be administered at the airport or you may receive a self-swab kit to complete within 24 hours of entering Canada
Don't have to wait for the results, you can travel on to your final destination, including taking connecting flights
Don’t have to quarantine while waiting for your results
Are not required to pay a fee for the arrival test
https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/tr...ntering-canada

LO 044 Dec 3, 2021 2:21 AM

^This site is not fully updated unless Justin changed his mind again. Then again every time the Transport minister opens his mouth, he says "I dunno things are changing every day" as well so it's a team effort.

Exemptions for fully vaccinated travellers
If you qualify as a fully vaccinated traveller you are:

1. Required to show a pre-entry molecular test
2. Required to use ArriveCAN
3. Required to take an arrival test if selected
4. Exempt from quarantine
5. Exempt from Day-8 testing

That third point is incorrect. The government is saying that everyone will need to take a test upon arrival and WAIT for their results before leaving the airport, connecting, getting a Tim's coffee.

You should either take a test prior to arriving in Canada or once you arrive but not both!

magee_b Dec 3, 2021 6:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9467131)
^This site is not fully updated unless Justin changed his mind again. Then again every time the Transport minister opens his mouth, he says "I dunno things are changing every day" as well so it's a team effort.

Exemptions for fully vaccinated travellers
If you qualify as a fully vaccinated traveller you are:

1. Required to show a pre-entry molecular test
2. Required to use ArriveCAN
3. Required to take an arrival test if selected
4. Exempt from quarantine
5. Exempt from Day-8 testing

That third point is incorrect. The government is saying that everyone will need to take a test upon arrival and WAIT for their results before leaving the airport, connecting, getting a Tim's coffee.

You should either take a test prior to arriving in Canada or once you arrive but not both!

It's currently correct as no policy has actually changed... There clearly have been discussions about changes, but nothing has actually changed on the arrival testing point.

So I guess you're just going to have to wait and see because like it or not "things are changing every day".

JakeLRS Dec 3, 2021 2:35 PM

Sooo this is random.

Flairs 32nd destination will be to Deer Lake (YFD). I had to google where that is, and it’s in Newfoundland…

They’ll offer YKF-YFD 2x weekly next summer.

kwoldtimer Dec 3, 2021 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9467348)
Sooo this is random.

Flairs 32nd destination will be to Deer Lake (YFD). I had to google where that is, and it’s in Newfoundland…

They’ll offer YKF-YFD 2x weekly next summer.

Random indeed. :shrug:

thewave46 Dec 3, 2021 3:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9467348)
Sooo this is random.

Flairs 32nd destination will be to Deer Lake (YFD). I had to google where that is, and it’s in Newfoundland…

They’ll offer YKF-YFD 2x weekly next summer.

The rub:

Canadian ULCC airlines start scraping the bottom of potential destinations quite quickly.

There's the obvious:

a) Domestic flights between larger centres in summer
b) Sun flights in winter
c) Europe in the summer (if you've the airplane for it)

Other than that, slim pickings abound.

I'm not sure Deer Lake will be the ticket for Flair. However, they still exist despite my assumption that they would have folded by now. Would I buy a ticket for travel beyond the next couple of weeks? No.

CivicBlues Dec 3, 2021 5:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9467348)
Sooo this is random.

Flairs 32nd destination will be to Deer Lake (YFD). I had to google where that is, and it’s in Newfoundland…

They’ll offer YKF-YFD 2x weekly next summer.

Deer Lake is the closest Airport to Gros Morne National Park. I know cause I was looking into going there for a holiday recently.

Dominion301 Dec 3, 2021 7:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9467348)
Sooo this is random.

Flairs 32nd destination will be to Deer Lake (YFD). I had to google where that is, and it’s in Newfoundland…

They’ll offer YKF-YFD 2x weekly next summer.

Tiny correction: Deer Lake is YDF.

That’s off-the-board to say the least. Going to YDF before YYT is rather bizarre.

jamincan Dec 3, 2021 7:14 PM

It effectively services Corner Brook. Perhaps they will connect to sun destinations out of Kitchener?

hehehe Dec 4, 2021 2:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9467722)
Tiny correction: Deer Lake is YDF.

That’s off-the-board to say the least. Going to YDF before YYT is rather bizarre.

A lot of their new routes don't seem particularly sustainable or profitable...

thenoflyzone Dec 4, 2021 2:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magee_b (Post 9467234)
It's currently correct as no policy has actually changed... There clearly have been discussions about changes, but nothing has actually changed on the arrival testing point.

So I guess you're just going to have to wait and see because like it or not "things are changing every day".

Latest update. The new testing requirement is already rolling out at airports across the country. I highlighted in bold the important stuff.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/arr...iner-1.6272919

Quote:

Once a fully vaccinated passenger arrives at a Canadian airport from a non-U.S. foreign destination, they will either be swabbed by a public health nurse or get a take-home test.

That traveller must then self-isolate at home or at their designated quarantine destination (such as a hotel) while they await the results of the test. It may take up to three days to get a result.

If that traveller gets a negative result, they're free to leave self-isolation and move about as they normally would. If the test is positive, they must stay in quarantine for 14 days.

If a passenger has a connecting flight, they get swabbed or collect a take-home test and then continue on to their final destination.

If, for example, an inbound passenger from Hong Kong arrives in Vancouver to catch a connecting flight to Kelowna, B.C., that traveller would get tested or pick up their at-home test in Vancouver before proceeding to the connecting flight. That passenger would then have to self-isolate in Kelowna while they await the results of the test.

Travellers who are given a take-home test self-administer the test while on a video link with a nurse from a private company, such as Dynacare, LifeLabs or Switch Health, to make sure it is done right. The specimen is then sent via courier to a laboratory. The instructions are included in the testing kit handed out at the airport.

The federal government is covering all of the costs associated with arrival testing.

LO 044 Dec 4, 2021 11:12 PM

This is the most important part of the clarified rules "If a passenger has a connecting flight, they get swabbed or collect a take-home test and then continue on to their final destination." Obviously the cost would have been a factor but I don't think making the passenger pay for the test was ever on the table. The government's already making the pre-departure test redundant.

The way I look at it is look at an insurance company. They are the most risk averse industry around. If you are vaccinated, no additional add-on insurance is required. If you are unvaccinated the insurance company feels that the risk is high enough that you will be hospitalized abroad that you need to pay a premium for them to take care of you. I still don't understand the logic of the pre-test. I thought now you can't travel if you are unvaccinated so everyone on your flight should be vaccinated so the risk of anyone needing hospitalization on the actual flight after arriving to Canada is slim to none.

Now if you take the test at home after you arrive you can isolate, notify anyone has been on the plane, watch for symptoms and life continues on. The government talks about "science" based decisions but "logic" isn't part of that equation for the Canadian system. Hopefully the travel industry can survive this.

Hali87 Dec 4, 2021 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer (Post 9467382)
Random indeed. :shrug:

A bit, although Deer Lake seems to be a disproportionately busy airport (normally there are several daily flights from YHZ on multiple airlines). I think part of the "extra" demand is due to people commuting between NL/AB for work, and another factor is nearby Marble Mountain which is the largest ski resort on the East Coast by a wide margin. Due to NL's geography YYT doesn't seem like a very convenient location for most people in NL outside of the Avalon so it makes sense that flights are spread out between a few different airports in different parts of the province. (although tbh I didn't know where Deer Lake was for the longest time either, I'd assumed it was in Labrador)

casper Dec 5, 2021 4:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9468070)
Latest update. The new testing requirement is already rolling out at airports across the country. I highlighted in bold the important stuff.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/arr...iner-1.6272919

Looks like CBC is reporting a special Exemption has been created for Canadians to return home. If I’m Sputh Africa there are specific Lufthansa flight to Frankfurt.that will accept Canadian heading home. At Frankfurt they have to connect immediately onto a Lufthansa or Air
Canada flight. Pre departure testing has to be done at certain labs in South Africa.

Dominion301 Dec 5, 2021 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hali87 (Post 9468503)
A bit, although Deer Lake seems to be a disproportionately busy airport (normally there are several daily flights from YHZ on multiple airlines). I think part of the "extra" demand is due to people commuting between NL/AB for work, and another factor is nearby Marble Mountain which is the largest ski resort on the East Coast by a wide margin. Due to NL's geography YYT doesn't seem like a very convenient location for most people in NL outside of the Avalon so it makes sense that flights are spread out between a few different airports in different parts of the province. (although tbh I didn't know where Deer Lake was for the longest time either, I'd assumed it was in Labrador)

Pre-pandemic it was pulling in 350k annual pax. Apparently the NL government is supporting the route. You’d think though Ottawa-Deer Lake would make more sense than Kitchener, unless they think they can attract people from Hamilton, Niagara, London and Toronto itself bypassing YYZ-YDF flights for a cheaper flight? Time will tell whether or not this works.


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