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Dominion301 May 11, 2021 8:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9276598)

It should give money for YOW to complete the light rail O-Train station at the airport. YUL just got $ to cover the REM extension & station a couple of weeks ago.

Denscity May 12, 2021 1:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9276726)
Central Mountain Air is increasing flights from Vancouver to Castlegar from 4 weekly to daily starting July 1st and so far ending November 6th.

They are also adding a larger aircraft on Friday and Sunday afternoons.

Dominion301 May 12, 2021 10:32 AM

YYZ Q1 Results: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...850609006.html

Sector / Pax (millions) / % Change
Dom: 0.5 / 3.1 / -81.9%
Int'l*: 0.6 / 6.5 / -92.3%
Total: 1.1 / 9.6 / -88.8%

*Includes transborder

hollywoodcory May 12, 2021 1:03 PM

AC expanding its Hawaii schedule with new routes from YYZ, YUL and YYC from December 2021.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2021...-and-Vancouver

New routes:
YYZ-OGG
YUL-HNL
YYC-HNL (Service Resumption)

YYZ-HNL/OGG & YUL-HNL are on the 787 (release doesn't say which variant) and YVR/YYC-Hawaii flights are on the MAX (YVR-HNL/OGG on 787 during peak periods).

Edit: YUL-HNL & YYZ/YYZ-OGG are both 788. YVR-HNL/OGG are 789. YVR-KOA & YYC-OGG/HNL are 7M8

Curious to see if WS adds YYZ-Hawaii to counter?

Denscity May 12, 2021 2:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9277568)
YYZ Q1 Results: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...850609006.html

Sector / Pax (millions) / % Change
Dom: 0.5 / 3.1 / -81.9%
Int'l*: 0.6 / 6.5 / -92.3%
Total: 1.1 / 9.6 / -88.8%

*Includes transborder

Oh so there are airports higher than YVR's 75% drop like I said.

thenoflyzone May 12, 2021 6:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9277729)
Oh so there are airports higher than YVR's 75% drop like I said.

YYZ and YUL have seen higher drops than YVR. Their international pax count is a bigger % than YVR's, so it makes sense. Not counting airports like YHZ and YOW, which have seen higher drops than YVR as well.

nname May 12, 2021 8:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9277620)
AC expanding its Hawaii schedule with new routes from YYZ, YUL and YYC from December 2021.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2021...-and-Vancouver

Seems like AC now learn to make announcement before putting them into schedule :D

hollywoodcory May 13, 2021 12:01 AM

Looking at advance bookings for Canada-Hawaii flights this winter, it is not at all surprising to see AC add those flights and I expect WS will follow suit.

I may even boldly say YYC-OGG could end up flying daily on the 789 during the peak Dec-April period given how strong WS advance sales have been.

thenoflyzone May 13, 2021 4:58 AM

Sad, all of this, when the best AC can do with a B787 is send it on an 11h30 flight from YUL to a sun destination.

I (and I'm sure AC as well), would rather they resume YUL-NRT/GRU instead of starting a route like this.

Don't expect this route to stick around once travel to Asia/South America bounces back again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9277620)

Curious to see if WS adds YYZ-Hawaii to counter?

It would be the equivalent of animals fighting for scraps. Sad, all of this, when the best our airlines can do with their flagship long haul aircraft is use them on very long haul leisure routes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9278247)
Seems like AC now learn to make announcement before putting them into schedule :D

They are going to need people to book the shit out these flights to have a chance at making money ! Especially YUL-HNL.

zahav May 13, 2021 5:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9278695)
Sad, all of this, when the best AC can do with a B787 is send it on an 11h30 flight from YUL to a sun destination.

I (and I'm sure AC as well), would rather they resume YUL-NRT/GRU instead of starting a route like this.

Don't expect this route to stick around once travel to Asia/South America bounces back again.



It would be the equivalent of animals fighting for scraps. Sad, all of this, when the best our airlines can do with their flagship long haul aircraft is use them on very long haul leisure routes.



They are going to need people to book the shit out these flights to have a chance at making money ! Especially YUL-HNL.

Yup exactly this. Right now it's airlines looking for anything possible to put their planes on, even if the routes don't make much sense. They are definitely flooding the market with all of these seats, there's no demand for this level of increase, COVID or no COVID. And European connections? I'm sure this will thrill the crowds of travellers from Vienna and Paris to Maui, come on now.

God I can't wait till things recover and we get normal routes again, and not ones YYZ-OGG and YKF-YLW that make no sense.

nname May 13, 2021 6:21 AM

Aren't AC always trying to find more use for their widebodies during winter months? At least this was what they said when they used 789 on YYZ-HNL instead of Rouge, and this was before all the MAX grounding and COVID.

It actually not that many seats to sell... YYZ-HNL was downsized and reduced for the first half of the season, so there was actually less seats than S19 for YYZ-Hawaii. YUL-HNL is only 2x weekly and it doesn't even run for the low season Jan-Feb.

YUL-NRT/GRU are still scheduled this winter... so far.


Looking further into the winter schedule... Seems like Rouge are not operating this winter? Most of the sun destinations will be operated by mainline flights in the 900-1299;1400-1499 ranges. Many are widebodies. Some of the shorter routes will be operated by express.

hollywoodcory May 13, 2021 1:43 PM

I've suspected WS would eventually take a crack at YYZ-Hawaii for a while now. By the end of this year, they still intend to have upwards of 10 787s and they need to use them somewhere.

Chances are we'll see a ton of capacity thrown at sun spots given some countries like Australia likely won't reopen their borders anytime soon. Get ready for seeing waves of widebodies lined up to go to CUN / MBJ / PVR, etc.

Speaking of widebody use, I see AC also has 77W's scheduled on YYZ-CUN this winter.

Dominion301 May 13, 2021 5:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9278695)
Sad, all of this, when the best AC can do with a B787 is send it on an 11h30 flight from YUL to a sun destination.

I (and I'm sure AC as well), would rather they resume YUL-NRT/GRU instead of starting a route like this.

Don't expect this route to stick around once travel to Asia/South America bounces back again.



It would be the equivalent of animals fighting for scraps. Sad, all of this, when the best our airlines can do with their flagship long haul aircraft is use them on very long haul leisure routes.



They are going to need people to book the shit out these flights to have a chance at making money ! Especially YUL-HNL.

YUL-HNL will be the Aeroplan redemption flight, especially with all the points people have been sitting on for over a year. When you see a route like this announced, it's kinda obvious as to where AC's VP of Network Planning hails from. :yes:

Speaking of YOW's massive declines compared to pretty much any western airport, check out the next posting directly below. :(

Dominion301 May 13, 2021 5:28 PM

YOW April pax traffic - HUGE GROWTH & HUGE DECLINES...at the same time. :-)

Sector / Apr-20 / Apr-21 / % Change
Dom: 6,654 / 20,716 / +211.3%
TB: 309 / 0 / -100.0%
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 6,963 / 20,716 / +197.5%

Sector / YTD 2020 / YTD 2021 / % Change
Dom: 744,485 / 95,827 / -87.1%
TB: 162,339 / 0 / -100.0%
Int'l: 168,382 / 0 / -100.0%
TTL: 1,075,206 / 95,827 / -91.1%

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2019
Dom: 383,379 / -90.4%
TB: 754 / -99.9%
Int'l: 0 / -100.0%
TTL: 384,133 / -92.5%

The meaningful indicator these days
Month-Over-Month Change
Sector / Mar-21 / Apr-21 / % Change
Dom: 21,855 / 20,716 / -5.2%
TB: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 21,855 / 20,716 / -5.2% - given the extra day in March, this translates to an average 14.5 fewer pax per day in April.

Dominion301 May 13, 2021 5:35 PM

Compare that with YWG's 2020 year-end results (they've finally been posted):

Sector / Dec-20 / Dec-21 / % Change
Dom: 285,139 / 40,034 / -86.0%
TB: 41,563 / 1,953 / -95.3%
Int'l: 25,197 / 0 / -100.0%
TTL: 351,899 / 41,987 / -88.1%

Sector / YTD 2020 / YTD 2021 / % Change
Dom: 3,812,530 / 1,030,564 / -73.0%
TB: 482,950 / 133,927 / -72.3%
Int'l: 188,768 / 134,735 / -28.6%
TTL: 4,484,248 / 1,299,226 / -71.0%

...and YWG's Q1 2021 numbers through March:

Sector / Mar-20 / Mar-21 / % Change
Dom: 149,893 / 34,100 / -77.3%
TB: 27,245 / 0 / -100.0%
Int'l: 28,508 / 0 / -100.0%
TTL: 205,646 / 34,100 / -83.4%

Sector / YTD 2020 / YTD 2021 / % Change
Dom: 654,889 / 101,421 / -84.5%
TB: 126,578 / 2,106 / -98.3%
Int'l: 134,735 / 0 / -100.0%
TTL: 916,202 / 103,527 / -88.7%

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2019
Dom: 477,096 / -87.5%
TB: 9,455 / -98.0%
Int'l: 0 / -100.0%
TTL: 486,551 / -89.1% - vs 384,133 at YOW...big difference.

For comparison as to how the western airports are 'outperforming' the east, YWG have surpassed YOW's 4 month total of 95k pax with over 100k pax in only 3 months. At this rate, YWG will finish 2021 ahead of YOW in pax traffic vs normally being 600-700k behind YOW. It can be explained in 3 ways: 1) intra-Manitoba traffic mostly starts/ends at YWG, 2) YWG's had ULCC service throughout the pandemic and 3) At YWG, it's still fly where you need to go or drive forever, whereas the same-day biz pax in the Eastern Triangle are non-existent...and Via's still operating with decent frequency.

TheGreatestX May 13, 2021 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9277729)
Oh so there are airports higher than YVR's 75% drop like I said.

???

You're comparing YVR's 2020 numbers with YYZ's 2021 numbers. If you're interested, YVR was down over 90% in February.

thenoflyzone May 14, 2021 1:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9279091)
YUL-HNL will be the Aeroplan redemption flight, especially with all the points people have been sitting on for over a year. When you see a route like this announced, it's kinda obvious as to where AC's VP of Network Planning hails from. :yes:

Speaking of YOW's massive declines compared to pretty much any western airport, check out the next posting directly below. :(

I don't think it matters where he's from. The strategy is clear, and frankly, it's the only strategy that makes financial sense right now: Leverage and stabilize your hubs. And for AC, that's YYZ, YUL and YVR.

They need to keep the YUL based fleet and crew flying as well. (Announcing YUL-DEL/CAI was for that purpose as well)

So i get the idea, and it makes sense in that regard. It's just sad that all they could come up with for W21 was YUL-HNL. However, at the end of the day, if it makes a tiny profit, it's better than having that 787 sit around at YUL collecting dust. Heck, even if they break even on the route, it's better than not flying that frame at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9278714)
I'm sure this will thrill the crowds of travellers from Vienna and Paris to Maui, come on now.

Obviously the route targets local and regional O&D before European connections. That much is obvious. I guess it can't hurt having some tiny bit of European connections tagging onto the flight. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Every bit helps.

hollywoodcory May 14, 2021 2:59 AM

YYC-Hawaii use to see a decent amount of connections from Europe. But I only remember mostly seeing those connections in one direction. (FRA-YYC-OGG or LGW-YYC-HNL) as the other direction would mean a 10 hour layover.

hollywoodcory May 14, 2021 3:03 PM

DL follows suit in adding BOS-YYZ later this year. Release also mentions LGA-YYZ from August 5.

https://news.delta.com/delta-expands...r-destinations

Dominion301 May 14, 2021 9:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9279664)
I don't think it matters where he's from. The strategy is clear, and frankly, it's the only strategy that makes financial sense right now: Leverage and stabilize your hubs. And for AC, that's YYZ, YUL and YVR.

They need to keep the YUL based fleet and crew flying as well. (Announcing YUL-DEL/CAI was for that purpose as well)

So i get the idea, and it makes sense in that regard. It's just sad that all they could come up with for W21 was YUL-HNL. However, at the end of the day, if it makes a tiny profit, it's better than having that 787 sit around at YUL collecting dust. Heck, even if they break even on the route, it's better than not flying that frame at all.



Obviously the route targets local and regional O&D before European connections. That much is obvious. I guess it can't hurt having some tiny bit of European connections tagging onto the flight. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Every bit helps.

Indeed. It's all-in on transcons to keep the birds in the air as much as possible. It's why there's this slew of ON/QC-BC route announcements. YOW-YVR hasn't been flown for a few months. It's coming back in June and then in July/August going to not just 2x daily, but the morning flight is going 788. It's been several years since AC put a summer widebody on YOW-YVR.


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