SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Canada (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18)
-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

thewave46 Feb 25, 2022 3:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9548771)
It should work, but the CSeries would have been better. For the reasons mentioned above, but also for the fact that it's a scalable product. Meaning PD could have started with the CS100, scaled up to the CS300, and then, if needed, they know that the CS500 is coming down the pipe eventually. It's only a matter of time. Bombardier designed the wing of that aircraft for subsequent larger variants, and Airbus has the money to make it happen, so PD would have had options to scale up if required.

That's not the case with the the E195-E2. It's the largest variant of that line. Period. And it sits between the CS100 and CS300 in terms of capacity. Meaning if down the road, PD wants something bigger, they will need to get a whole new aircraft type.

It is tough to turn down a screaming deal, I imagine.

The CSeries/A220 doesn’t need the help of selling cheap, so why would Airbus leave money on the table? Embraer needs anything it can get. If Porter is leasing them cheap (don’t know if they are buying or leasing) they can walk away if the expansion doesn’t pan out or they can switch types if demand softens for the A220 a decade out.

Interesting times in the Canadian aviation market. I am not sure the enthusiasm is warranted, but one way to make a small fortune is to invest a large fortune in an airline.

nname Feb 25, 2022 4:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9548771)
Will be interesting to see if Trudeau revokes overflight rights to Russian carriers. And if Russia retaliates with a similar measure on Canadian carriers.

That would put a significant dent on AC's operations from YVR/YYZ/YUL to DEL and back.

I think for YVR, eastbound via China/Japan and westbound via Europe is still an option and within the range of 787 (probably add an hour to the flight time). Flight to YYZ and YUL would require a tech stop eastbound though.

When India/Pakistan border was closed, the final routing of the YYZ-DEL flight eastbound was through Pacific with a stop at YVR. Westbound for both routes was non-stop through Europe.

casper Feb 25, 2022 8:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9548825)
It is tough to turn down a screaming deal, I imagine.

The CSeries/A220 doesn’t need the help of selling cheap, so why would Airbus leave money on the table? Embraer needs anything it can get. If Porter is leasing them cheap (don’t know if they are buying or leasing) they can walk away if the expansion doesn’t pan out or they can switch types if demand softens for the A220 a decade out.

Interesting times in the Canadian aviation market. I am not sure the enthusiasm is warranted, but one way to make a small fortune is to invest a large fortune in an airline.

I think there is only two ways of making money in that industry. The airport operator gets to charge everyone and their dog fees from airlines to passengers to catering companies. The second way is to sell points to the banks and credit card companies

Could be wrong, but I though the reason they did not go for the cseries was the order book was full for the next year or two and they would have to wait.

Calfan12 Feb 25, 2022 3:35 PM

It seems like WestJet’s Domestic few extra weekly flights added example: Vancouver YVR- Edmonton YEG route & (that doesn’t operate often), the flight number starts off with a 9xx. As the extra weekly Friday morning flight is 982 from YVR-YEG.

I have also noticed it on some Calgary YYC WS extra domestic weekly flights too.

thenoflyzone Feb 25, 2022 5:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9548875)
I think for YVR, eastbound via China/Japan and westbound via Europe is still an option and within the range of 787 (probably add an hour to the flight time). Flight to YYZ and YUL would require a tech stop eastbound though.

When India/Pakistan border was closed, the final routing of the YYZ-DEL flight eastbound was through Pacific with a stop at YVR. Westbound for both routes was non-stop through Europe.

It's tight both ways. DEL-YVR eastbound via China/Japan, is around 14,000 km. Probably much longer, as the maps below don't show all the zig zags required around the Himalayas and in Chinese airspace.
YVR-DEL eastbound while avoiding Russia/Ukraine is tight as well. Well over 14,000km.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=yvr-del...l&MS=wls&DU=km

YYZ/YUL-DEL eastbound while avoiding Russia is doable. Westbound, it's doable but tight.

Look at AA. They don't have Russian overflight rights on AA292/293 JFK-DEL-JFK. Eastbound is not a problem. Westbound, sometimes they make it non stop, but often times, they stop in BGR for fuel.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/aa293

If such a scenario were to happen, YUL is best placed to limit the distance of the flight. YYZ is second. YVR is a tough go. Fuel stops will be the name of the game, unless they put in seat restrictions on the flights. Mind you, those 77L's would come in handy on YVR-DEL in such a scenario.

nname Feb 26, 2022 2:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9549292)
It's tight both ways. DEL-YVR eastbound via China/Japan, is around 14,000 km. Probably much longer, as the maps below don't show all the zig zags required around the Himalayas and in Chinese airspace.
YVR-DEL eastbound while avoiding Russia/Ukraine is tight as well. Well over 14,000km.

Flight time eastbound through Japan/China was actually much shorter compared to eastbound through Europe. I remember YVR->DEL ran for about 15.5 hours, while DEL->YVR was 14.5 hours. That's why AC was able to run non-stop YVR for both directions (at least during winter), while they cannot do nonstop DEL-YYZ.

Note: YVR-CPH-BUD-IKA-DEL is about 14,200km, DEL-DAC-KWE-PVG-NRT-YVR is about 13,950km. The routing through PVG-NRT was the exact one AC used before.


Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9549292)
If such a scenario were to happen, YUL is best placed to limit the distance of the flight. YYZ is second. YVR is a tough go.

Well, if YUL is the best while YVR is a tough go, why did AC funnel all DEL traffic through YVR for at least 3 months? They could've route the YYZ flight to YUL or kept it non-stop, instead of routing through YVR for more than a month, then suspend it after when MAX was grounded and they were short of planes. We all know that YYZ-DEL was a much bigger market than YVR-DEL, so they could've suspended the YVR flight instead of YYZ if it is easier to operate the inbound flight to Canada through Europe.

thenoflyzone Feb 26, 2022 3:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9549899)




Well, if YUL is the best while YVR is a tough go, why did AC funnel all DEL traffic through YVR for at least 3 months? They could've route the YYZ flight to YUL or kept it non-stop, instead of routing through YVR for more than a month, then suspend it after when MAX was grounded and they were short of planes. We all know that YYZ-DEL was a much bigger market than YVR-DEL, so they could've suspended the YVR flight instead of YYZ if it is easier to operate the inbound flight to Canada through Europe.

Going off memory here, but wasn't that due to India/Pakistan tensions causing Pakistan to deny all flights to/from India to transit their airspace? This meant flights from YYZ would have had to go around Pakistan from the south. That rendered YYZ-DEL inoperable non stop.

That's why AC routed all DEL flights through YVR at that time. YYZ-YVR-DEL was flown westbound. And DEL-YVR-YYZ eastbound, due to Pakistani airspace closure.

The main difference now is that YYZ-DEL can most certainly be operated non stop while avoiding Ukraine/Russia. So it's less likely you will see a YYZ-YVR-DEL. The flight back however might head eastbound, and transit through YVR, or like AA does it, go it via Europe and take the odd fuel stop.

nname Feb 26, 2022 4:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9549935)
Going off memory here, but wasn't that due to India/Pakistan tensions causing Pakistan to deny all flights to/from India to transit their airspace? This meant flights from YYZ would have had to go around Pakistan from the south. That rendered YYZ-DEL inoperable non stop.

That's why AC routed all DEL flights through YVR at that time. YYZ-YVR-DEL was flown westbound. And DEL-YVR-YYZ eastbound, due to Pakistani airspace closure.

The main difference now is that YYZ-DEL can most certainly be operated non stop while avoiding Ukraine/Russia. So it's less likely you will see a YYZ-YVR-DEL. The flight back however might head eastbound, and transit through YVR, or like AA does it, go it via Europe and take the odd fuel stop.

Both flight were flown eastbound. Canada-India through Europe/Iran with a big detour around the border. India-Canada through China/Japan.

Flight toward India was always non-stop for both routes. The return trip was originally flown through Europe with tech stop at CPH, before flying eastbound and the tech stop for YYZ flight moved to YVR.

thenoflyzone Feb 26, 2022 1:29 PM

Well, so far, Canada hasn't banned Russian carriers from its airspace.

Currently, there are 2 Aeroflot planes over Canadian airspace, and a 3rd one is about to enter.

SU108 SVO-LAX
SU158 SVO-CUN
SU154 SVO-VRA

hehehe Feb 26, 2022 5:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9550045)
Well, so far, Canada hasn't banned Russian carriers from its airspace.

Currently, there are 2 Aeroflot planes over Canadian airspace, and a 3rd one is about to enter.

SU108 SVO-LAX
SU158 SVO-CUN
SU154 SVO-VRA

I doubt Canada will ban Russian carriers from its Airspace if AC has anything to say about it (and probably WS who probably wants to get in on some of the India flying eventually).

nname Feb 26, 2022 7:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9550045)
Well, so far, Canada hasn't banned Russian carriers from its airspace.

Currently, there are 2 Aeroflot planes over Canadian airspace, and a 3rd one is about to enter.

SU108 SVO-LAX
SU158 SVO-CUN
SU154 SVO-VRA

I think US would need to at least ban that LAX flight before Canada would even consider doing anything...

nname Feb 26, 2022 9:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9549935)
The main difference now is that YYZ-DEL can most certainly be operated non stop while avoiding Ukraine/Russia. So it's less likely you will see a YYZ-YVR-DEL. The flight back however might head eastbound, and transit through YVR, or like AA does it, go it via Europe and take the odd fuel stop.

Just noticed yesterday's (Feb 25) flight AI 185 DEL-YVR were flown using Pacific route. Not sure if AI are planning to avoid Russian airspace or the Pacific route just happen to be faster on that particular day. Every other flights to/from Canada still operate through Russia though.

hollywoodcory Feb 26, 2022 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9546099)
WS increased YYC-FCO & YYZ-BCN to 4x weekly from mid-June through early September.

I guess they're confident Boeing will resume 787 deliveries before June.

Both of these increases got reversed in this weeks update, however they’ve slightly adjusted op days.

But they still have all 5 YYC-ex Euro routes on Wed and Sat.

Another week and still no real changes to the Summer schedule. Unless they’ve held off to see how to counter all the AC adds. :shrug:

nname Feb 27, 2022 5:22 AM

AC had cancelled today evening's flight to DEL from YVR, YYZ, and YUL.

AC48 YYZ->DEL from this morning was operated as normal

AC43 DEL->YYZ just left Russian airspace.
AC45 DEL->YVR is currently in Russian airspace.
AC49 DEL->YYZ for tomorrow will be diverted to YUL.


I guess AC will no longer go through Russian airspace in maybe a few hours, once AC45 returns to Canadian airspace?

From the AC system, looks like the current plan will be tech stop at DUB for:
YVR->DEL
DEL->YYZ
DEL->YUL

The following flights are still planned with non-stop
DEL->YVR
YYZ->DEL
YUL->DEL

TheGreatestX Feb 27, 2022 4:52 PM

Canada closes air space to Russian operators.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...anes-1.6366268

Coldrsx Feb 27, 2022 7:07 PM

While insignificant vis-a-vis the human tragedies, war crimes and loss of life, it was noted today that the AN-225 'Dream in Ukraine) was (symbolically) destroyed by the Russians.

https://i0.wp.com/www.opindia.com/wp...g?w=1102&ssl=1
https://www.opindia.com/2022/02/an22...ussia-antonov/

TheGreatestX Feb 27, 2022 8:42 PM

Airports With Non-Stop Flights To The Most Provinces/Territories
YYZ: 12 (no YT*)
YEG: 12 (no NU)
YUL: 11 (no NT, YT)
YOW: 11 (no SK, YT*)
YYC: 11 (no NB, NU)
YVR: 9 (no NB, NL, NU, PE)
YWG: 8 (no NB, NL, NT, PE, YT)
YHZ: 8 (no NT, NU, PE, SK, YT)

*YYZ and YOW have direct service to YXY

zahav Feb 27, 2022 11:01 PM

It's amazing how dominant YEG is in terms of provincial scope, even more than YYC for sure. And out of anyone, they have the strongest chance of having NU service, due to YEG's status as a northern hub. So it could easily be the first to have non-stop to all 13.

jamincan Feb 27, 2022 11:43 PM

I'm surprised YHZ doesn't have service to PEI.

hollywoodcory Feb 28, 2022 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9551079)
It's amazing how dominant YEG is in terms of provincial scope, even more than YYC for sure. And out of anyone, they have the strongest chance of having NU service, due to YEG's status as a northern hub. So it could easily be the first to have non-stop to all 13.

With WO adding YEG-YQM, it’s possible WS could be adding YYC-YQM on its mainline. They still haven’t announced their summer plans yet.


All times are GMT. The time now is 1:34 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.