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CaliNative Jun 9, 2022 8:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp (Post 9642632)
We already have one: the county admin building.

http://brettalan.com/wp-content/uplo...n-D7A_0320.jpg

Until 1964 this was San Diego city hall, as well as the county seat of government. But then the City outgrew the shared space and transferred to the buildings we know now, leaving the County in control. Wish it had gone the other way, I think we can all agree a historic Spanish Revival tower on the downtown waterfront would be a perfect city hall.

:previous:
Yeah, I see the similarity, like a Peter Pan L.A. City Hall that never grew up. Like colemonkee, I like the building. One of the better WPA projects built in the depression. It is especially gorgeous when lit up at night and seen from the bay or Harbor Island.

It might annoy L.A. if we built a slightly taller City Hall, >454'. How about 500'? Any good waterfront locations owned by the city? At 500', it might be the tallest City Hall in the nation. Not sure if Daley Center in Chicago is a city hall, but that is about 600'. Other than that, can't think of anything taller. But anything over 454' beats L.A. I still like my modern double helix design. Spanish revival is nice, but we have that. Go modern.

Heck, hire Gehry if he promises to hold down costs. He's got a few more good projects left in him. Gehry is risky but his best is off the charts good. I think Gehry and his team would take a prestigious SD City Hall project if allowed some design freedom constrained by cost limits, and his health is OK. Didn't Leonardo do some of his better work in old age?

Except for the Salk Institute and the Geisel Library across the street at UCSD, San Diego has little in the way of world celebrated architecture. A Gehry designed city hall, especially on the waterfront, might be chancy, but is likely to be great and bring much favorable attention to SD. I bet Gehry and his team would work for a competitive fee because it would be such a high visibility and important project. Take a chance at architectural greatness San Diego. Hire Gehry.

colemonkee Jun 9, 2022 2:06 PM

Philadelphia City Hall is 548 ft., so it wouldn't be the tallest in the nation, but I would totally still support a 500 ft tall City Hall building in San Diego if you could get a good design for it.

Streamliner Jun 9, 2022 4:27 PM

Great update, thanks! I'm probably most excited for the Courthouse Commons project just to see how it will interact with the street at ground level. It reminds me of the Cheesegrater Building in London if it had had its budget slashed 90%

CaliNative Jun 9, 2022 8:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colemonkee (Post 9645056)
Philadelphia City Hall is 548 ft., so it wouldn't be the tallest in the nation, but I would totally still support a 500 ft tall City Hall building in San Diego if you could get a good design for it.

Oh, I forgot about that one. Wm. Penn statue on top.

HurricaneHugo Jun 10, 2022 6:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho (Post 9635390)
First look: 37-story downtown San Diego tower proposed for Island Avenue


https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/d...1-island-1.jpg

It's been approved.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...ear-petco-park

HurricaneHugo Jun 10, 2022 6:56 AM

Repeat ballot measure to lift 30-foot height limit in the Midway District moves forward

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...-moves-forward

Streamliner Jun 10, 2022 2:20 PM

I'm really interested to see more developments like that Island Avenue project. Not for the aesthetics (Though the preservation of the original building and how part of the tower matches it is cool, it's otherwise a pretty standard building),but for the minimal parking situation. If more people/developers see this as a viable development, we could see more towers like this.

HurricaneHugo Jun 12, 2022 8:30 AM

Citizen-led effort for proposed sale tax increase fails to get enough signatures for Nov. ballot

https://www.10news.com/news/local-ne...for-nov-ballot

Andy-4-SD Jun 22, 2022 2:54 PM

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...s-coastal-zone

State opens door to apartment buildings over 30 feet in San Diego’s coastal zone
View of Midway District
The low profile of San Diego’s Midway District, as seen looking southwest, where buildings taller than 30 feet have been outlawed since 1972.(Nelvin C. Cepeda/The San Diego Union-Tribune)
With permission from the state, an affordable housing developer plans to bust the city’s coastal height limit and set a precedent for residential projects in some University City, Pacific Beach, Midway District and South Bay neighborhoods.
BY JENNIFER VAN GROVE
JUNE 15, 2022 4:49 PM PT
FOR SUBSCRIBERS
A few blocks west of Interstate 5, in between Garnet Avenue and Rose Creek, an affordable housing developer is proposing to build the unthinkable — a mid-rise residential tower stretching well above the 30-foot height limit that’s been enshrined in the city’s municipal code for 50 years.

San Diego Community Housing Corporation is planning a 60-unit, 60-foot-high residential building, called Rose Creek Apartments, on a 0.4-acre site at 2662 Garnet Avenue in Pacific Beach. The units will be deed-restricted for low- and very low-income households, with some set aside for transitional aged youth and homeless veterans.

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The proposed development will be a four-to-five story building that features an on-site manager’s unit and ground floor common area spaces for meetings, social activities, leasing and offices for supportive case management services, said Marcela Escobar-Eck, who is the CEO of Atlantis Group Land Use Consultants and is advising the developer.

On June 10, the developer received the all-clear from California’s Department of Housing and Community Development, or HCD, to bust the local building height barrier. Just a few weeks ago the project may have seemed impossible.

That’s because the location falls squarely within San Diego’s coastal zone, which was established by a 1972 voter initiative preventing buildings over 30 feet west of Interstate 5. The local law includes carve-outs for downtown, National City and parts of Mission Bay, but has otherwise successfully maintained the very low profile of San Diego’s beach- and bay-adjacent neighborhoods. It is distinct from the California Coastal Act of 1976, which protects land up and down the coast of California.

Rose Creek Apartments appears to be the first project to test the limits of state authority in the voter-defined coastal zone.

“The State Legislature can and does preempt local initiatives,” Shannan West, HCD’s head of housing accountability, wrote in a technical assistance letter delivered to San Diego’s development services department last week. West cited decades of case law and was firm in her decision. “The (30-foot height limit) development standard conflicts with State Density Bonus Law and is void.”

The Rose Creek Apartments project is still in its infancy. The Pacific Beach property is currently home to Wasabi Sushi and its parking lot, and is still in escrow. The developer still needs to complete at least 18 months of permitting and pre-development work before the project can break ground, Escobar-Eck said.

San Diego coastal zone areas subject to State Density Bonus Law
A recent state determination renders the voter initiative-defined 30-foot coastal height limit void for qualifying housing projects with affordable units in some University City, Midway District, Pacific Beach and South Bay neighborhoods, as highlighted on the map.

Yellow color-coded areas are zoned for multi-family housing. Green color-coded areas are zoned for single-family housing. Gray color-coded areas are not zoned for residential use.(Courtesy, City of San Diego)
Of greater consequence, however, is language in West’s letter that states that HCD’s determination applies to any qualifying housing development that falls within San Diego’s voter initiative-defined coastal zone but is outside the state’s coastal boundaries. That means the determination extends to portions of University City, Pacific Beach, the Midway District and the South Bay.

“It appears that a substantial amount of land shares the same particular characteristics as the subject site,” West wrote. “It is HCD’s hope that the determinations made in this letter might serve to further facilitate the production of affordable housing in these areas.”

In other words, San Diego’s coastal height limit overlay zone is no match for the state — and taller apartment buildings are inevitable.

“This particular opinion from HCD is very clear that the local voter initiative cannot supersede the State Density Bonus Law, which requires the city to grant certain waivers and incentives for projects that include affordable homes, absent very specific findings that would warrant denial for public health, safety and welfare,” said Heidi Vonblum, who is the director of San Diego’s planning department.

The State Density Bonus Law, established in 1979, exists as an incentive for developers to build on-site affordable units.

Under the law, which has been expanded over the years, housing developments with at least five percent of units deed-restricted for very low-income households, or those making 50 percent or less of the area median income, are entitled to build 20 percent more units than what’s normally allowed by local zoning laws. The bonus grows to as much as 50 percent for projects with 24 percent of units set aside for low-income families, or those making 80 percent or less of the area median income. The law includes additional privileges for projects that are 100 percent affordable and within walking distance of transit stations.

The median income for a family of four in San Diego is $106,900, according to the state’s 2022 list of income limits for affordable housing units.


The Pacific Beach parcel in question is zoned CC-3-8, meaning it’s a mixed-use zone that supports high density. The zone allows for a maximum of one dwelling unit for each 600 square feet of lot area, as well as buildings as tall as 100 feet without the coastal height restriction, according to the city’s base zone regulations. The site, however, is located within a half-mile of a major transit stop, making it exempt from maximum density controls, a city spokesperson said.

In the case of Rose Creek Apartments, which consists of 100 percent affordable units, the developer is entitled to erect three additional stories or build 33 feet higher than the 30-foot limit with the state bonus.

“This has the potential to be a real game-changer,” said Matthew Boomhower, who is the president of Southern Cross Property Consultants and a local land-use attorney. “I think this is a great example of HCD’s new, very proactive approach saying, ‘We’re going to push this (pro-housing) agenda and usurp local control.’”

Building height limitations in San Diego’s voter-defined coastal zone have been an impediment to catalytic redevelopment in areas like the run-down Midway District and overall housing production, he said.

“We know that real estate in San Diego is expensive. So for a developer to have a project and make it pencil, it becomes challenging when you’ve got cost inputs that are fixed, and you have a hard lid that limits your ability to take advantage of (development incentives),” Boomhower said. “It just became a lot easier for (developers) to line up money ... because they can actually do a sufficient number of units to make (their projects) work.”

The State Density Bonus Law will be applied at the city staff level on a project-by-project basis, making it difficult to determine the immediate implications for San Diego’s 48-acre sports arena site.

Three development teams are competing to lease and redo the site with thousands of apartments — many of which will be reserved for lower-income households — and a new arena alongside parks and a mix of commercial uses. The proposals are banking on a do-over ballot measure, slated for the November 2022 ballot, that if passed by a majority of city voters would lift the 30-foot height limit for the entire 1,324-acre Midway District.

The state law seemingly presents an alternative path forward for residential towers on the sports arena site, although it’s not clear if a developer would be eligible for a sitewide bonus that applies to commercial development such as office towers or a sports entertainment venue.

roletand Jun 25, 2022 9:32 PM

Crane Update > 13 Downtown
 
Adding a new project at 10th & Island to the list and adding a link to The Lindley website. Elevate Hotel is under construction on the site of the old MeadsDurket office.


1 Crane - Simone, Alexan Little Italy, Trammell Crow Residential, Union & Ash, https://www.crowholdings.com/alexan-little-italy
0 Cranes - One Broadway Hotel, Manchester Pacific Gateway, Manchester Financial, Broadway & Pacific Hwy, https://www.manchesterpacificgateway.com/
1 Crane - RaDD Block 2A, IQHQ, https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/
2 Cranes - RaDD Block 2B, IQHQ, https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/
1 Crane - RaDD Block 3A, IQHQ, https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/
1 Crane - RaDD Block 4A, IQHQ, https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/
1 Crane - RaDD Block 4B, IQHQ, Harbor Drive & Pacific Hwy, https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/
0 Cranes - 8th & B, Bosa, 8th & B
1 Crane - 800 Broadway, CA Ventures, 8th & Broadway
1 Crane - West, Courthouse Commons, Holland Partners, Union & Broadway
1 Crane - Radian, Cisterra, 9th & G, https://www.cisterra.com/radian
0 Cranes - The Lindley, Milano, Toll Brothers, Columbia & Ash, https://www.livethelindley.com/
1 Crane - Broadway Towers (Tower 2), Pinnacle International, 11th & Broadway, https://broadwaytowers.com/
1 Crane - Jefferson Makers Quarter, JPI Development, 15th & Broadway
1 Crane - Elevate Hotel, K Elevate 10th Street Property, LLC, 10th & Island

mello Jun 26, 2022 7:56 PM

Thanks for Updates Role
 
How tall is Elevate going to be, I couldn't find renderings? Wasn't there supposed to be another hotel breaking ground right near there behind a restaurant was it Half Door Brewing or some other place with a weird name I can't recall right now. There is a place on the corner and some older structures right behind it would be torn down....

Also the crane at Pinnacle twin has been up for 6 months and the Rebar is just now reaching street level. They lagging hard AF on that one guys :shrug: Anyone know whats going on?

And Kilroy has not broken ground on their huge Biotech/Office project where the Salvation Army was, hoping they aren't getting cold feet and canceling due to economic collapse.

roletand Jun 26, 2022 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 9660553)
How tall is Elevate going to be, I couldn't find renderings? Wasn't there supposed to be another hotel breaking ground right near there behind a restaurant was it Half Door Brewing or some other place with a weird name I can't recall right now. There is a place on the corner and some older structures right behind it would be torn down....

Also the crane at Pinnacle twin has been up for 6 months and the Rebar is just now reaching street level. They lagging hard AF on that one guys :shrug: Anyone know whats going on?

And Kilroy has not broken ground on their huge Biotech/Office project where the Salvation Army was, hoping they aren't getting cold feet and canceling due to economic collapse.

Elevate
8 Stories, 135 Rooms - It's unclear if this is a traditional hotel or if it's being built as a Sonder/Airbnb building. https://www.elevateinvestmentpartners.com/san-diego

Pinnacle Broadway Tower 2
No clue what's going on here. Pinnacle owns a bunch of sites downtown, I think 5 permitted/approved. If they're getting cold feet, what's going to happen with all those other projects?

Kilroy East Village
This one may be a long way off. I haven't seen any approved permits/plans for that site. If I remember correctly, the demolition of the Salvation Army and surrounding buildings was due to a fire that broke out while they were vacant.

dirt patch Jun 28, 2022 7:12 AM

My take: an all out boom in high rise development in Downtown San Diego. AS long as the rent is rising and developers can go over 35 story, it'll be booming. I expect almost everyone to break ground in the next 6 months since the dog is eating the food(life science firms are leasing the office towers for life science). This will lead to more demands for housing and hotels downtown and even more office high rises. Good times for downtown!!!

dirt patch Jun 28, 2022 7:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roletand (Post 9660026)
Adding a new project at 10th & Island to the list and adding a link to The Lindley website. Elevate Hotel is under construction on the site of the old MeadsDurket office.


1 Crane - Simone, Alexan Little Italy, Trammell Crow Residential, Union & Ash, https://www.crowholdings.com/alexan-little-italy
0 Cranes - One Broadway Hotel, Manchester Pacific Gateway, Manchester Financial, Broadway & Pacific Hwy, https://www.manchesterpacificgateway.com/
1 Crane - RaDD Block 2A, IQHQ, https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/
2 Cranes - RaDD Block 2B, IQHQ, https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/
1 Crane - RaDD Block 3A, IQHQ, https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/
1 Crane - RaDD Block 4A, IQHQ, https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/
1 Crane - RaDD Block 4B, IQHQ, Harbor Drive & Pacific Hwy, https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/
0 Cranes - 8th & B, Bosa, 8th & B
1 Crane - 800 Broadway, CA Ventures, 8th & Broadway
1 Crane - West, Courthouse Commons, Holland Partners, Union & Broadway
1 Crane - Radian, Cisterra, 9th & G, https://www.cisterra.com/radian
0 Cranes - The Lindley, Milano, Toll Brothers, Columbia & Ash, https://www.livethelindley.com/
1 Crane - Broadway Towers (Tower 2), Pinnacle International, 11th & Broadway, https://broadwaytowers.com/
1 Crane - Jefferson Makers Quarter, JPI Development, 15th & Broadway
1 Crane - Elevate Hotel, K Elevate 10th Street Property, LLC, 10th & Island

Most of them should get underway in the next 6 months with vertical construction. Good times ahead for downtown.

SDfan Jun 28, 2022 6:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roletand (Post 9660653)
Elevate
8 Stories, 135 Rooms - It's unclear if this is a traditional hotel or if it's being built as a Sonder/Airbnb building. https://www.elevateinvestmentpartners.com/san-diego

Pinnacle Broadway Tower 2
No clue what's going on here. Pinnacle owns a bunch of sites downtown, I think 5 permitted/approved. If they're getting cold feet, what's going to happen with all those other projects?

Kilroy East Village
This one may be a long way off. I haven't seen any approved permits/plans for that site. If I remember correctly, the demolition of the Salvation Army and surrounding buildings was due to a fire that broke out while they were vacant.

Pinnacle is a long game developer, with over two decades of work in SD. They've ridden the real estate ups and downs. If there is a major recession, they'll just wrap up what they have and wait to start construction permitted projects. Granted, it takes years to get one of these towers done, so I'd expect them to even start construction on a tower at the state of a recession and then expect to ride it out with a completed project ready for the upswing.

As for Kilroy's project, I hope it stalls out. Those sites can hold more density than they're proposing.

IconRPCV Jul 5, 2022 9:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliNative (Post 9644928)
:previous:
Yeah, I see the similarity, like a Peter Pan L.A. City Hall that never grew up. Like colemonkee, I like the building. One of the better WPA projects built in the depression. It is especially gorgeous when lit up at night and seen from the bay or Harbor Island.

It might annoy L.A. if we built a slightly taller City Hall, >454'. How about 500'? Any good waterfront locations owned by the city? At 500', it might be the tallest City Hall in the nation. Not sure if Daley Center in Chicago is a city hall, but that is about 600'. Other than that, can't think of anything taller. But anything over 454' beats L.A. I still like my modern double helix design. Spanish revival is nice, but we have that. Go modern.

Heck, hire Gehry if he promises to hold down costs. He's got a few more good projects left in him. Gehry is risky but his best is off the charts good. I think Gehry and his team would take a prestigious SD City Hall project if allowed some design freedom constrained by cost limits, and his health is OK. Didn't Leonardo do some of his better work in old age?

Except for the Salk Institute and the Geisel Library across the street at UCSD, San Diego has little in the way of world celebrated architecture. A Gehry designed city hall, especially on the waterfront, might be chancy, but is likely to be great and bring much favorable attention to SD. I bet Gehry and his team would work for a competitive fee because it would be such a high visibility and important project. Take a chance at architectural greatness San Diego. Hire Gehry.

The Prado in Balboa Park with its Spanish Revival masterpieces are world renowned. Petco Park is often considered one of the finest architectural sports facilities, the new Library downtown rocks; you can't forget the Hotel Coronado. We have our share of good architecture; I do agree a waterfront masterpiece would be a huge benefit for the city.

Speaking of waterfront masterpieces, I was wandering around downtown last week during a concert at the new Rady Shell at Jacob's Park. Boy did we hit a homer with this, it is a beautiful facility and all the pedestrian traffic around made the area feel like the Prado in Balboa Park on a weekend afternoon.

mello Jul 6, 2022 7:36 PM

3rd Hotel Pad across from Lib Station sitting Empty
 
I have walked along the paths that lead to the Harbor drive bridge heading from the Airport to Point Loma and notice that a massive hotel pad sits empty next the the Hampton Inn and Other hotel forgot the brand. That site was planned to have 3 hotels. Does anyone know what happened with this? Seems like such a waste.

Side Note of that area: Huge amounts of old military barracks sit just past Terminal 2 seems like a good place to house homeless. It has showers and toilets, so all they need are some common kitchen facilities.

SamFlood Jul 8, 2022 1:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 9669163)

Side Note of that area: Huge amounts of old military barracks sit just past Terminal 2 seems like a good place to house homeless. It has showers and toilets, so all they need are some common kitchen facilities.

Those barracks are used by the Fire Department to train. They are totally dilapidated and abused.

Will O' Wisp Jul 10, 2022 2:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamFlood (Post 9670513)
Those barracks are used by the Fire Department to train. They are totally dilapidated and abused.

Also filled with asbestos. There's no way you could ever renovate them into habitability, they're a complete teardown.

Eventually the City wants to replace them with a pump facility as part of Pure Water phase II. Ideally this would be in the late 2020s, but with San Diego it pays not to set expectations too high...

CaliNative Jul 10, 2022 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 9660553)
How tall is Elevate going to be, I couldn't find renderings? Wasn't there supposed to be another hotel breaking ground right near there behind a restaurant was it Half Door Brewing or some other place with a weird name I can't recall right now. There is a place on the corner and some older structures right behind it would be torn down....

Also the crane at Pinnacle twin has been up for 6 months and the Rebar is just now reaching street level. They lagging hard AF on that one guys :shrug: Anyone know whats going on?

And Kilroy has not broken ground on their huge Biotech/Office project where the Salvation Army was, hoping they aren't getting cold feet and canceling due to economic collapse.

Maybe a shortage of construction workers and building materials are slowing construction? There are still supply chain shortages. Not "economic collapse". If there is a collapse, it will be due to the Federal Reserve raising rates too fast.


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