With the Alliance of American Football starting up after the Super Bowl and running into late April, and with the amount of coverage the NFL and NCAA get - Americans may be too "footballed out" to care about another football league... especially one that isn't played in their country.

The didn't flock to the CFL when there were actual teams in the US, not sure they would care now for the most part - especially with all these competing leagues.

Is it even possible for Americans to be "footballed out"? :haha:

I don't think the CFL will ever earn its bread and butter from US TV rights, but hey, if it could ever manage to consistently draw 250-500K viewers a game for what is essentially prepackaged, no-overhead content (i.e. it's not like ESPN would have to produce games on their own, although they along with other American networks did do that in the 80s and 90s), then perhaps it could mean an extra couple million dollars per team every year.

I actually find it kind of surprising that the CFL hasn't established that kind of "spring league" niche for itself in the US over the years. Various major networks have aired it there, and heaven knows there have been many high profile American players that played in the CFL. Yet somehow the CFL managed to disappear from most American TVs for the 2000s and into this decade. For a few years they were reduced to the America One network which virtually no one watches. It just wasn't a priority, I suppose.

That said, I'd be shocked if the CFL ever started earning revenue from any other international markets. Despite what people here think, even the NFL barely registers offshore. Mexico, the UK and some Pacific islands have small fanbases, but that's it. If some guy in Spain or China pays zero attention to the NFL, I don't know what's going to suddenly turn him on to the CFL. But frankly it doesn't matter given that the potential in the US is so vast.

The main reason for the big attendance numbers for MLB is the sheer number of games every team plays per season versus teams in the other major pro sports leagues. The reason why MLB teams can maintain high numbers is the relatively low price of tickets for MLB games. MLB ticket prices average 1/3 the cost of NFL ticket prices, and about 1/2 the cost of NHL and NBA ticket prices.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ports-leagues/

Baseball is tolerable in person if you go with someone you can hold a conversation with for a few hours and eat food with. I always tell people to go to a baseball game with someone they really like. :haha:

Made the mistake of going to a Yankees game by myself once and bailed after the 5th. It's so boring if you don't have company and you're just there on your own.

It's a good sport to have on TV in the background on a sunny weekday afternoon if you're doing something else but it's also difficult to just sit down and watch on its own. I think I only watch playoff baseball on TV and it's usually in a bar environment.

^ A lot of people say that about soccer. What's one man's boredom is another man's in depth fascination.

I'm gonna repackage this into one post :D

I don't know, I don't think many Canadian hockey fans are under the impression that the NHL registers a whole lot in the US. I mean, you often hear sportscasters talk about "the big 3" pro leagues. But people still watch it. It'll lose ground to the other leagues, but I don't see it getting as small as it is in the US in my lifetime.

Absolutely, with movies I think it's as close to identical as it could be. But music a little less so (there are always a handful of Can-con artists that end up being big for a few months off the radio), and sports even less so than that.

But I said "openly" big, by which I mean that people would talk about it. Because the CFL gets massive ratings too, yet I find it very, very hard to find someone to talk to about it who knows any players, or how any of the teams are doing. So clearly it's not cool, and neither is curling, but they both still get good numbers. Basically what I'm saying is trends matter, but they're not all that matters. Clearly the Canadian label still has meaning, and we also still have some people who are fans of sport, not just hype.

I agree. Drake and the Weeknd could have put out the exact same music they've put out since making it in the US, and they'd be on the same level of popularity in Canada as some random Can-con band from Mississauga that won a contest on Much Music.

But what I meant was that they care about what the US thinks, but it's not all they (we?) care about. I'd like to give us a little more credit than that. I think there will be struggles ahead (I worry about what the CFL will look like in 40 years), but I'm also optimistic that we won't go full-American by then either.

Yeah I'm no fan of baseball, but I'd rather watch it 10 times than one soccer game. I don't even understand my aversion to soccer or where it comes from, but it's extreme. I pass the line of boredom into legitimate annoyance and frustration.

I think most us are lucid enough to realize that a lot of this is simply what we're used to (or not).

I used to prefer baseball over soccer by a wide margin, but spending quite a bit of time abroad coupled with the departure of the Expos switched my preference over to soccer.

I'll still watch both on occasion, though I sometimes find baseball a bit tedious. Unless it's a really exciting LCS or WS game.

OTOH I never got "used" to basketball, and even though it's fast and (allegedly) action-packed, it doesn't do much for me.

^ I have no background in soccer or baseball at all. I kind-of, sort-of got into the Jays and Expos in their early 90s heydays, but even then it was mostly watching the highlights than sitting through actual games... that's about it. I never played either sport apart from high school gym class.

With that being said, if you offered me tickets to see a soccer or baseball game of similar level, I'd take the soccer game hands down. I admit the nuances of baseball are lost on me, but just the same, I find the game just an absolute parade of tedium. That's why I was surprised when Canadians (including a lot of Winnipeggers) all of a sudden started getting really into baseball when the Jays went on their tear a couple of years ago... I was like "you people find this INTERESTING?" I didn't watch a minute of it.

Oh how I would love it if Vancouver could find some way of building an MLB stadium and get a team here (please don’t say “it’s never gonna happen”). It’s true that baseball is more of a social thing, but the stadium experience, the atmospher at a baseball game beats the other sports imo. Vancouver’s a baseball city.

Definitely. If it's not possible, then the USFL and XFL would still be in business today. Too much of anything isn't good. I love pizza, but if I ate it every day for even a month - I wouldn't want to touch another pizza for a long time.

I wonder to what extent Vancouver's bonkers real estate market affects its chances of ever getting a MLB team? You'd probably be into the billions just for the land to build a reasonably centrally-located stadium. Unless the hypothetical team would just play in BC Place, I suppose.

They would need to build a floating stadium. ;)

Source: https://images.adsttc.com
https://images.adsttc.com/media/imag...jpg?1441146162

^ Anchors away for a fun cruise on the trusty old S.S. Ballpark!

Seriously... it could come down to BC Place or somewhere like Langley for a MLB venue in the Vancouver area.

In reference to Drake: The Raptors are getting fifteen nationally televised games in the US this season (8 ESPN / 7 TNT), the most national broadcasts they've had in that country since 01/02.

I don't think those leagues died because of an over saturation of football in the US. Americans love the game itself but they don't like being jerked around. Americans take their football seriously for the most part (as we can see from the whole anthem debacle and the fallout from politicizing the game).

The XFL failed failed because it insulted the intelligence of a serious football fan.

The USFL had a much better chance as the concept of a spring league backed by big money is still feasible to this day. Problem was the USFL had a rogue owner who was unfortunately able to convince a few other owners to stray from the course and go head to head with the establishment which was contrary to the whole reason they came into existence.

The problem is big time pro leagues are a very difficult thing to establish and that's why most of them fail, but they wouldn't keep trying if they didn't think there was a need to fulfill.

You really should go to a couple of Goldeyes games at Shaw Park. Nice relaxed atmosphere in a beautiful Field. You can get really close to the action or sit in the dining area in right field. And the dining and beverage options are awesome and reasonably priced. Great way to spend an afternoon or evening in a beautiful part of historic Winnipeg! The baseball can almost become a secondary part of the experience.

The Whitecaps proposed a downtown waterfront stadium a while back, and the cost seemed in line with other stadiums of that size. So I think a waterfront ballpark is a possibility. The water and mountain views would make the stadium experience second to none. Historic Gastown, right on the doorstep, would add to the game night experience as well.

Who knows what the economic climate will be in 10 or 15 years. Maybe Vancouver will have the clout to support an MLB park (if it doesn't right now).

https://i.imgur.com/NukyeSw.png?1

We've had this discussion a number of times on this forum related to actual/distributed ticket sales, and recently BC Pavilion Corp. released official and actual attendance figures for Whitecaps and Lions games at BC Place:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOVQ4LGUIAE7Osf.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlfmgC_U4AAp2o5.jpg
Images via thebreakernews on Twitter.

As it should be reiterated: almost every sports team does this to some degree or another. Tickets distributed/allotted figures are always used rather than the physical number of people in the stadium.

Angus Reid conducted a survey of the CFL & NFL in Canada recently. The article can be found here.

https://i1.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-c...ize=895%2C1024

https://i0.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-c...CFL8.jpg?w=600

https://i1.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-c...CFL3.jpg?w=644

https://i0.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-c...CFL5.jpg?w=731

https://i1.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-c...etho.jpg?w=454

All graphs courtesy of Angus Reid.

Angus Reid also polled Canadians on their general views of sports leagues in Canada, which can be viewed here.

Here's the main table:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1846/2...d95556fa_o.png

The most interesting info for me is the interest in football leagues according to political allegiance.

Same. I didn't foresee NDP being the most heavily NFL.

As much as I hate to admit it, it does point to the Liberals and NDP having large concentrations of apatrid globalist hipsters with an attitude of "ewww... something uniquely Canadian - don't let it touch me!"

Based on those results, the CFL better start figuring out how to attract the 18-34 crowd, OR start pulling fans in from the 18 and under category. That's how you build a future fan base.

It's also interesting to see that Quebec has more preference to the NFL over the CFL. 10 years ago, with Calvillo and Trestman at the helm in Montreal, I don't think those numbers are that way. Winning does wonders in Montreal I guess.

No surprise in Ontario as well.

Count me as part of that 21% who watch and enjoy both leagues.

Those stats pretty much prove all of my thoughts about the CFL and it's future as a league in it's current Mickey Mouse state. The fact that they are losing the market to the NFL with younger Canadians is not a shock to me. I've said it before, a league needs more then just 9 teams to make it interesting. Give Halifax a team, Victoria, Quebec City, London. if the numbers are bad and they are losing the younger market to the NFL the future of the league doesn't appear so great.

Relative to NFL, CFL has work to do. Relative to other major sports, CFL is 2nd in overall popularity, and is far and away more popular overall than MLS and NBA.

The difference between NFL and CFL is the fact that fantasy football exists in NFL. That is probably the greatest reason why you see those increased stats, especially the 18 - 35 age. I’ve always said, there are football fans, then there are the fantasy football fans...

People say that if Toronto didn’t have a CFL team the league would die off and become irrelevant... argument is even more true with respect to NBA and MLB. If Toronto lost their team those two leagues would become completely irrelevant l.

Which highlights how short-sighted Bob Young was in allowing THF to be built on the same site as Ivor Wynne instead of closer to downtown. There's a large influx of students and young professionals moving downtown as there's a resurgence going on with many condos being built. If you want their support - you bring the game to them. Instead, the game is still situated in an area with an older and lower income demographic. This will bite him in the ass down the road.

Well said.

NFL fantasy leagues are a billion dollar market. That's one reason why the NFL has the appeal that it does.

TSN is trying to get CFL fantasy going but offering a $5,000 reward for winning isn't going to attract a big base of people, especially in the 18-35 category, signing up.

People act as if the so called "Mickey Mouse league" is blissfully unaware of its present older demo. They are very aware under Commish Ambrosie and have been working to fix the problem (and having some early success).

That's why you see party zones being erected and or put into new stadium design, think Rum Hut, Pil Country, Subaru Log Cabin. That why the CFL came up with a video game especially geared to younger kids, that's why you're seeing initiatives towards flag football and programs (Nissan) to help get football back into schools. They are thinking well beyond attracting millennials.

Neighbourhoods seldom remain the same. They are dynamic and cyclical. The neighborhood I grew up in was young, grew old and is now young again within 30 years.

Nine teams is a bad argument to make as a reason for losing market share. Think the original six and the CPL (if it makes it off the ground).

You can't just plant a team anywhere just for the sake of adding new teams. I also think the disinformation of the quality of the league relative to the NFL has likely peaked. Sure you'll get lots of people in one particularly highly populated area to buy into the NFL hype but Americans themselves are buying into it less.

You are likely to see all big time sports waning in many levels of popularity, we just don't live our lives like we did in the previous century. I think the CFL is as well positioned as any league to take on the future. Why? Because the CFL has had to scratch and claw for the past 30 years and has actually come out the other side even better than then.

Almost every major sport should be concerned about their future and who their audience will be well after any millennial generation

And yet another reason not to like them :)

True, but in this location - while the older people are dying off, there aren't a lot of younger people moving in. It's been a low-income area since I was a kid many moons ago and hasn't changed. It's going to take a long time for the demographics of this area to change, while the downtown has been gentrifying and getting younger very quickly. #missedopportunity

In any case, it's going to be interesting to see what happens when the Alliance of American Football (what a dumb name) kicks off.
All players will receive a minimum 3-year, $250K USD contracts. That should sway some Americans away from playing in Canada since it's more advantageous to stay to play in the US (ie. higher salary, lower taxes, closer to home for some, warmer weather, more accessible to scouts, etc).

What I've been seeing is the old middle class neighborhoods getting a bit run down and younger folk moving in and buying up the places as fixer uppers, thus rejuvenating the areas.

But I've also been seeing lots of stories of young folk not being able to afford anything and the emergence of the whole tiny house et al movements. Problem is, I want to retire early and downsize but some of the prices on these new age units aren't too great either. And that is their whole raison d'etre, affordability.

All I want is my little beach cottage but some of the prices to me are ridiculous, but I suppose it is all relative because someone from the GTA or Vancouver would think they were probably great prices.

They come, they go. You should always be concerned but I think tradition and stability are far under rated. Really, only the AFL has made a success of it and that was in football's heyday nearly 50 years ago.

The USFL had the best chance, but some "small potatoes" big shot blew it for them.

I don’t mind these new football leagues pop up. It makes the CFL be more competitive to recruit players, increase salaries, etc... not to mention these leagues don’t overlap with CFL, so theoretically players that play in the other leagues can still play for the CFL season. Make $80k in the US league through the winter, the make another $80k trough the summer/fall... not sure it could work that way but hopefully they could find a way

That's not 250k/year, that's $83,000/year. So the CFL needs to up their minimum/rookie salary game if they hope to sway some players to come to Canada.

This next CBA negotiation, which will be after this season, will be very interesting.

Yes, I'm aware. I never stated that it was per year.
250k/year minimum contract would be ludicrous for a new league - especially one with only 8 teams to draw revenue from.

Another draw to potential players I forgot is that the season is only 12 weeks long and each team only plays 10 games. Enticing to earn more money playing almost half as many games - especially for a sport as physically damaging as football.

Ashton Kutcher… A REDBLACKS fan?
CFL.ca Staff

For those of you of familiar with the Netflix Original series “The Ranch,” you may know that Colt Bennett (Ashton Kutcher’s character) was a football star.

But, what fans of the show didn’t know was that Bennett appeared to have either played for or is a fan of the Ottawa REDBLACKS.

Spotted:

https://i.imgur.com/KgFsu9I.jpg

Wonder if they sent him a Grey Cup ring?

I doubt there are people unaware of these things. If it were that easy to pull off it would have happened already.

The CFL's only mistake was to exist in a country of only 37 million people. There's certainly nothing lacking about the sport of Canadian football. Any one who has watched a game in Regina or Ottawa realizes this.

I just hope the league can hold on long enough to get to 16-18 teams. That's where it needs to be but I suspect support might plummet a lot further before the league can get there.

CFL ratings report: tight Labour Day games deliver a viewership boost
Drew Edwards 3downnation September 7, 2018

The CFL’s recent run of ratings success continued over the Labour Day weekend.

The overall average audience on English-language TSN for the four games played – all of which were competitive – were up by just over five per cent from Labour Day in 2017.

And while the Saskatchewan Roughrider game against the Winnipeg Blue Bombers posted the biggest number – it was the second-highest rated game of the CFL season – the ratings for the Montreal-Ottawa, Hamilton-Toronto and Calgary-Edmonton contests were up across the board.

That said, the numbers for the Ticat-Argo and Stamps-Esks games are still down from where they were in 2016 when the East Division clash posted 902,000 and the West did 781,000. Of course, the digital landscape has changed significantly since then.

Overall, the league and TSN has seen its ratings climb by almost four per cent so far this season – a number that has the potential to grow the longer multiple teams stay competitive in the playoff race.

Week 12 ratings

Friday
Montreal at Ottawa: 333,100 (+11.7 per cent over 2017) (not including RDS)

Saturday
Winnipeg at Saskatchewan: 838,300 (+2.5 per cent)

Monday
Edmonton at Calgary: 683,300 (+1.7 per cent)
Toronto at Hamilton: 744,100 (+9.1 per cent)

Labour Day 2018 vs Labour Day 2017: + 5.2 per cent

Year-to-date (46 games) vs 2017 (45 games) : +3.9 per cent

Live mic, weekly concerts helping to boost CFL’s TV ratings
Kirk Penton The Athletic Sep 5, 2018

New features, new panel members and different broadcast combinations have resulted in solid CFL ratings for TSN this season.

“As everybody knows the business is ever changing and constantly moving and constantly challenging, so in today’s world networks that hold their audience consider that a big victory and obviously if you bring in higher ratings it’s a massive victory,” TSN vice-president and executive producer Paul Graham said. “In our case, with CFL, it’s been a hold and a plus. We’re happy with the ratings, how it’s worked out … the fact that we’ve been able to maintain our average and in some cases be a little bit higher.”

A happy broadcast partner is good news for the league, because the “transformative” deal the two sides signed five years ago provided financial stability for the three-down loop and was extended through the end of the 2021 season.

Graham and the TSN team have been busy this season implementing several new

...

Tiger-Cats take over the CCMA Awards in Hamilton
Kristina Costabile CFL.ca September 10 2018

If you caught the Canadian Country Music Association Awards last night, you may have spotted a couple of familiar faces, and I’m not just talking about The Reklaws (congrats, on the win, by the way!!)

The Reklaws, of course, sing the TSN CFL Thursday Night Football Theme.

https://i.imgur.com/06diLE4.png

Ticats Luke Tasker and Simoni Lawrence were in attendance in Hamilton on Sunday night as award presenters! And check out how swaggy the guys looked in their country-inspired looks.

https://i.imgur.com/Soj8WFK.png

Oh, and Gord Bamford was spotted rocking a No. 17 jersey!

https://i.imgur.com/JpBSzO1.png

Ratings in the 18-34 demo have actually been improving year over year. They are moving in the right direction. Same thing happened last season as well.

Building a CFL stadium or any stadium close to downtown is a mistake as it is largely a deadzone 99% of the time. 24 games and a couple of other events does not make for a vibrant area. Besides, having a stadium near downtown was never a serious option in Hamilton- there was no land available.

It would have been built on a former industrial lot northwest of downtown, just a few hundred metres away from the "border" or about 1km from the epicentre (the site its on now is about 3km away). An area with big redevelopment plans tied to the waterfront and close to the new GO train station.

Bob Young balked at the last minute, in part I think due to some bad advice from his minions.

I personally think local neighbourhood opposition would have stalled it long enough to cause the Pan Am folks and city to look at other sites, but it could have been a great location had it worked out.

I don't mean right downtown. As ScreamingViking states, the desired location was outside of downtown - but close enough to make a big difference and be rewarded by the redevelopments that are happening in the area.

Under the category of, you learn something new everyday, I had never heard this one.


https://i.imgur.com/tS0Lsf8.png