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mr.x Jul 14, 2008 6:38 PM

Ottawa eyes runway extensions
Transport Canada explores new safety measures for major airports

Jack Branswell and Phil Couvrette, Canwest News Service
Published: Monday, July 14, 2008

OTTAWA -- More than three years after a fiery Air France crash at Toronto airport, Transport Canada is still trying to decide whether to require runway extensions at Toronto, Vancouver and other major airports that do not already have them.

Aircraft going off the end of runways is one of the most frequent accidents involving airliners, with at least 10 such incidents in bad weather worldwide since the Air France crash.

Yet the Transportation Safety Board's final report on the Air France crash watered down how the lack of a runway extension contributed to passenger injuries and damage to the plane, according to documents obtained by Canwest News Service.

Transport Canada is considering requiring 300-metre Runway End Safe Areas as a safety measure, which was a key recommendation of the TSB's report into the Air France crash.

Vancouver doesn't have RESAs because they aren't required by Transport Canada, said Brett Patterson, a spokesman for the Vancouver Airport Authority.

An early version of the TSB's Air France report noted if Runway 24L at Pearson Airport had a safety area at the end of it "the damage to the aircraft and injuries to the passengers would certainly have been reduced."

When the report was published that section was changed to read: "the damage to the aircraft and injuries to the passengers may have been reduced."

The Air France plane travelled about 300 metres off the runway before stopping -- but not before it went through ditches, fences and into a steep ravine and that the injuries and the plane damage "was incurred due to these."

All 309 passengers and crew survived but 33 people were taken to hospital, including 12 who were treated for serious injuries.

In a memorandum dated a little more than a month after the TSB delivered its recommendations on the crash landing, the Standards Branch of Transport Canada noted that "current airport certification standards are under review with the participation of industry experts."

That position hasn't changed from January of this year, when the latest memo was written.

A spokesman said Transport Canada is reviewing studies from ICAO and the U.S. on runway design standards and RESAs "and this review has resulted in a recommendation to amend the Canadian regulations and standards," but the department will consult with the aviation industry before finalizing changes.

Toronto's airport authority, facing a lawsuit over the Air France crash, would not comment.

Montreal recently refurbished its airport and runways and it brought them up to the most recent standards of International Civil Aviation Organization, including adding RESAs.

RESAs don't necessarily have to be paved or cemented runways. For example, Edmonton has fields that would stop a plane. Some U.S airports -- RESAs are required at major airports -- use a material that crushes under the plane's weight and slows momentum. Typically, that material is a wall of concrete puffed so full of air that it has a consistency similar of styrofoam.


© The Vancouver Sun 2008

harls Jul 14, 2008 7:02 PM

Fantastic pics of Winnipeg's airport expansion, Keng.

Here's a couple of pics I took of the model of Winnipeg's airport back in 2006..








Keng Jul 14, 2008 10:16 PM

^^^
Thanks, a few more....
http://kengillespie.com/img/v2/p128877602-4.jpg

http://kengillespie.com/img/v3/p485239675-5.jpg

http://kengillespie.com/img/v2/p304092380-5.jpg

http://kengillespie.com/img/v2/p75187515-4.jpg

craneSpotter May 19, 2009 6:18 AM

10 Busiest Canadian Airports (by passengers)
 
Airports act as economic hubs for cities.

The 10 busiest passenger airports for 2008:

Airport/Passengers (click passenger number for stats link)

1. Toronto Pearson - 32,334,831
2. Vancouver International - 17,852,459
3. Montreal Trudeau - 12,813,199
4. Calgary International - 12,506,893
5. Edmonton International - 6,437,334
6. Ottawa/Macdonald-Cartier International - 4,339,225
7. Halifax Stanfield International - 3,578,931
8. Winnipeg Richardson International - 3,570,033
9. Victoria International - 1,538,417
10. Kelowna International - 1,389,883

any spot changes guessed for 2009? Maybe Calgary International will overtake Montreal Trudeau? Maybe Winnipeg International will overtake Halifax Stanfield?

Rico Rommheim May 19, 2009 6:57 AM

If I remember correctly, Calgary was 3rd last time around no?

mersar May 19, 2009 8:24 AM

I believe YYC overtook YUL for a single month last year, but the later months flipped YYC back to 4th

eemy May 19, 2009 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim (Post 4256880)
If I remember correctly, Calgary was 3rd last time around no?

Apparently ADM had incorrectly calculated their passenger figures. If I recall correctly, non-revenue passengers weren't included in the initial totals (I might be wrong on that though).

Dirt_Devil May 19, 2009 2:53 PM

^^ You're right...that is why YUL was fourth. Then they included non-revenue passengers like every other major airports in canada and were back on the 3rd spot again.

Coldrsx May 19, 2009 3:56 PM

I would be interested to see the % change from 07 for the same airports.

Rico Rommheim May 19, 2009 4:16 PM

Holy crap i just realized Quebec city's not even in the top 10! not even with the 400th anniversary! :koko:

Calgarian May 19, 2009 4:32 PM

I wonder how much traffic through Calgary is destined for Banff, I hope they never get their own international airport.

tremblay May 19, 2009 5:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx (Post 4257240)
I would be interested to see the % change from 07 for the same airports.

The Wikipedia entry on the issue is well-done and informative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...orts_in_Canada

Montreal-Trudeau saw a 12% increase between 2006 and 2007 and yet it stayed stable (0% change) from 2007 to 2008. Weird...

Bigtime May 19, 2009 5:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgarian (Post 4257297)
I wonder how much traffic through Calgary is destined for Banff, I hope they never get their own international airport.

Well considering that the Banff grass strip airport is closed for anything but emergency landings I highly doubt they'll ever get anything of the sort.

On an aviation note, yeah that grass field was real disruptive to the wildlife in the park, being right next to a 4 lane highway and rail track and all... :rolleyes:

240glt May 19, 2009 5:53 PM

They will never allow an airport in the park, and I can totally understand why.




I also would like to see the growth #'s for all airports.

ue May 19, 2009 5:59 PM

I wonder why the Québec cities don't push their weight as much as other places. I think Québec would be more touristy than Calgary therefore more people coming in. And Montréal is behind too, in terms of the top 3, considering Vancouver is so much higher. And I always hear how Montréal is a great destination though.

Rico Rommheim May 19, 2009 6:05 PM

Vancouver's airport is the gateway to the pacific. Montreal is close to Toronto, Ottawa and Plattsburgh is competes with all of them.

Bigtime May 19, 2009 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgarian (Post 4257297)
I wonder how much traffic through Calgary is destined for Banff, I hope they never get their own international airport.

At LAX I've seen Calgary on the departure screens as Calgary/Banff.

WhipperSnapper May 19, 2009 7:03 PM

Quote:

I wonder why the Québec cities don't push their weight as much as other places. I think Québec would be more touristy than Calgary therefore more people coming in. And Montréal is behind too, in terms of the top 3, considering Vancouver is so much higher. And I always hear how Montréal is a great destination though.
Alberta's relative isolation certainly comes into play.

Calgarian May 19, 2009 7:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtime (Post 4257488)
At LAX I've seen Calgary on the departure screens as Calgary/Banff.

I think it's like that everywhere.

srperrycgy May 19, 2009 8:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtime (Post 4257488)
At LAX I've seen Calgary on the departure screens as Calgary/Banff.

I saw that in Denver too.

Bigtime May 19, 2009 8:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgarian (Post 4257682)
I think it's like that everywhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by srperrycgy (Post 4257735)
I saw that in Denver too.

Perhaps it is like that for the American airports that have flights to Calgary? I know I have not seen that at Frankfurt or Heathrow.

Doug May 19, 2009 8:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacamano (Post 4257589)
Alberta's relative isolation certainly comes into play.

and concentration of corporate activity and high personal incomes.

Riise May 19, 2009 8:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacamano (Post 4257589)
Alberta's relative isolation certainly comes into play.

Yup! Also, if one is flying somewhere on vacation they'd probably want to maximize what they can see. As such, they wouldn't go to Quebec City alone but both QC and Montreal and probably fly into the latter.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtime (Post 4257739)
Perhaps it is like that for the American airports that have flights to Calgary? I know I have not seen that at Frankfurt or Heathrow.

Same here. Also, in Vegas it was just Calgary.

NetMapel May 19, 2009 8:49 PM

I'm a little bit surprised that Calgary appears to be almost as busy as Montreal in that stats. What happened to all the tourism industries in Montreal ? That place is a hot bed for many tourists (including myself, except I took the train to Montreal). I guess the concentration of business trips in Calgary more than make up that difference.

Rico Rommheim May 19, 2009 9:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NetMapel (Post 4257810)
I'm a little bit surprised that Calgary appears to be almost as busy as Montreal in that stats. What happened to all the tourism industries in Montreal ? That place is a hot bed for many tourists (including myself, except I took the train to Montreal). I guess the concentration of business trips in Calgary more than make up that difference.

That and like previously mentioned, Calgary's not competing with other international airports, and Calgary's not anywhere close to any other major hub airport. Also, most of the tourism in Montreal comes from the USA and Ontario, and most americans and Ontarians simply drive here.

That being said, Montreal nevertheless doesn't get the tourism it should get. And now that the Grand Prix is gone, and the recession, things won't be much better anytime soon.

1ajs May 19, 2009 9:16 PM

should be interesting to see how much the numbers change in winnipeg when our new terminal comes online

Denscity May 19, 2009 9:29 PM

3 from BC!

WhipperSnapper May 19, 2009 9:38 PM

Quote:

and concentration of corporate activity and high personal incomes.
I imagine though it still comes down to pleasure. Most people that fly for business will be more likely to consider the alternatives for pleasure.

Canadian Mind May 19, 2009 9:41 PM

west jet routes alot of domestic flights through Calgary and Edmonton. would that contribute?

ue May 19, 2009 9:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim (Post 4257827)
That and like previously mentioned, Calgary's not competing with other international airports, and Calgary's not anywhere close to any other major hub airport. Also, most of the tourism in Montreal comes from the USA and Ontario, and most americans and Ontarians simply drive here.

That being said, Montreal nevertheless doesn't get the tourism it should get. And now that the Grand Prix is gone, and the recession, things won't be much better anytime soon.

Vancouver and Edmonton are "hubs" close by. Edmonton is less a hub. But how can you compete with big WJ and AC offices? We're expanding lots too.

Coldrsx May 19, 2009 9:48 PM

Calgary is the unfortunate hub of the west which is why they are so high

Bigtime May 19, 2009 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx (Post 4257924)
Calgary is the unfortunate hub of the west which is why they are so high

...and Toronto is the unfortunate hub of Canada which is why they are so high.

;)

Why is it "unfortunate" to be a hub? Or were you simply implying that unfortunately Edmonton has lower numbers just due to the fact that Calgary is a hub in the west?

I hate when it gets so testy with regards to YYC/YEG.

I don't know of anybody personally that would drive the 10+ hours to YVR to save some money, if they would after the drive anyways.

ue May 19, 2009 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx (Post 4257924)
Calgary is the unfortunate hub of the west which is why they are so high

How is it not Vancouver though? cgy could be a second hub, but Vancouver has many American flights and is the gateway to the pacific.

Dmajackson May 19, 2009 10:13 PM

All I can say is go Halifax :tup:

With the major Tall Ships Festivals, new airport renovations, Buskers and other great things happen here this year I think our numbers will be even higher for 2009. :)

Coldrsx May 19, 2009 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edmontonenthusiast (Post 4257971)
How is it not Vancouver though? cgy could be a second hub, but Vancouver has many American flights and is the gateway to the pacific.

gateway to the pacific yes, hub of the west no

Coldrsx May 19, 2009 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtime (Post 4257964)
...and Toronto is the unfortunate hub of Canada which is why they are so high.

;)

Why is it "unfortunate" to be a hub? Or were you simply implying that unfortunately Edmonton has lower numbers just due to the fact that Calgary is a hub in the west?

I hate when it gets so testy with regards to YYC/YEG.

I don't know of anybody personally that would drive the 10+ hours to YVR to save some money, if they would after the drive anyways.

hahaha touche

YEG gets absolutely screwed over because of YYC being the HUB and while we have made significant inroads into new routes, PAX, infrastructure... the perception is that YYC is Alberta's hub (and the west's).

Bigtime May 19, 2009 10:16 PM

I hear that, and of course over the last how many years has the city been fighting over what to do with the city centre airport? That has not helped get a concrete plan in place for YEG until recently, in my amatuer observations of the situation.

graupner May 19, 2009 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edmontonenthusiast (Post 4257472)
I wonder why the Québec cities don't push their weight as much as other places. I think Québec would be more touristy than Calgary therefore more people coming in. And Montréal is behind too, in terms of the top 3, considering Vancouver is so much higher. And I always hear how Montréal is a great destination though.

you can't drive or take the train to Calgary from NY, Boston or Washington.

But to Montreal, you certainly can and it is less expensive.

LeftCoaster May 19, 2009 10:18 PM

Well I'm sure Coldsrx meant of the prairies, Calgary is certainly the hub of that area however if you want to fly international you will most likely have to get routed out of Vancouver or Toronto, although Calgary is gaining more intl flights.

One thing to keep in mind when comparing these numbers, as has been alluded to before, is the effect of other airports and competing forms of travel. In Toronto Montreal and Vancouver there are all secondary airports (Toronto Island, Mirabel, and Abbotsford) respectively which detract somewhat from the numbers of the main airports. Also important is the presence of alternate forms of transit, being VIA in Montreal and Toronto and float planes in Vancouver. These alternate methods of transit detract from the numbers of passengers who would be flying something like AC Jazz if these alternate services did not exist.

Proximity to American airports is also a major factor. I know personally I have flown out of Sea-Tac and Detroit/Buffalo almost as many times as I have YVR and Pearson due to the major cost savings. Unfortunately for Calgary (although fortunately for it's airport authority) there isn't a large American city nearby to provide it with this alternative.

Coldrsx May 19, 2009 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigtime (Post 4257993)
I hear that, and of course over the last how many years has the city been fighting over what to do with the city centre airport? That has not helped get a concrete plan in place for YEG until recently, in my amatuer observations of the situation.

the city centre airport has not, IMO, done anything +/- to YEG with regards to where we are at

Bigtime May 19, 2009 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 4257999)
Well I'm sure Coldsrx meant of the prairies, Calgary is certainly the hub of that area however if you want to fly international you will most likely have to get routed out of Vancouver or Toronto, although Calgary is gaining more intl flights.

I would certainly hope someone travelling into Europe and points onward from there doesn't have to fly through YVR or YYZ now (barring those crazy will fly anywhere for a price people), Calgary's current European connections are:

-LHR with either BA daily, AC daily (2x daily in the summer)
-FRA with Lufthansa or AC (daily)
-AMS with KLM (4x weekly)
-plus a bunch of smaller services to places like Gatwick with the likes of Air Transat and some others.

Now if we are talking destinations like the pacific rim and south America then yes one would tend to be funneled through YVR and YYZ as Canadian hub connections.

Coldrsx May 19, 2009 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 4257999)
Well I'm sure Coldsrx meant of the prairies, Calgary is certainly the hub of that area however if you want to fly international you will most likely have to get routed out of Vancouver or Toronto, although Calgary is gaining more intl flights.


actually i didn't for many people are routed through YYC in man/sask/ab rather than Van unless they proceed overseas... but within NA YYC is a popular transfer.

Bigtime May 19, 2009 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx (Post 4258005)
the city centre airport has not, IMO, done anything +/- to YEG with regards to where we are at

Good to hear, glad my observations were of the amateur and incorrect nature! :tup:

Nicko999 May 19, 2009 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NetMapel (Post 4257810)
I'm a little bit surprised that Calgary appears to be almost as busy as Montreal in that stats. What happened to all the tourism industries in Montreal ? That place is a hot bed for many tourists (including myself, except I took the train to Montreal). I guess the concentration of business trips in Calgary more than make up that difference.


Montreal is close to some big cities like NYC, Washington, Boston, Philadelphia, Toronto, Ottawa. Calgary is not.
I always drive to go to Florida. It's easy, no mountains, nothing. You can also visit others cities if you use a car. As you see below, Calgary and Edmonton's traffic is mainly domestic.

Tourism is not the problem in Montreal, YUL have the largest % of international traffic even if it's competing against US airports and Pearson.
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5...1242773130.png

AuxTown May 19, 2009 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edmontonenthusiast (Post 4257917)
Vancouver and Edmonton are "hubs" close by. Edmonton is less a hub. But how can you compete with big WJ and AC offices? We're expanding lots too.

I can't imagine anyone driving from Calgary to Vancouver to catch a flight, that's over 1000km! Montreal is the absolute furthest I would drive to for a flight and it's 150km. Toronto is 3.5-4 hours drive from Ottawa, during which time I could be 2/3 of the way to London, England. I guess distance is a relative term in Canada. Some people are willing to work hard for a deal and others are willing to pay for convenience. I'm a member of the latter.

le calmar May 20, 2009 1:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey (Post 4258206)
I can't imagine anyone driving from Calgary to Vancouver to catch a flight, that's over 1000km! Montreal is the absolute furthest I would drive to for a flight and it's 150km. Toronto is 3.5-4 hours drive from Ottawa, during which time I could be 2/3 of the way to London, England. I guess distance is a relative term in Canada. Some people are willing to work hard for a deal and others are willing to pay for convenience. I'm a member of the latter.

I remember a guy on Greyhound that was going to Montreal to catch a flight, and he came all the way from Winnipeg.

craneSpotter May 20, 2009 2:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 4257999)
Well I'm sure Coldsrx meant of the prairies, Calgary is certainly the hub of that area...

One thing to keep in mind when comparing these numbers, as has been alluded to before, is the effect of other airports and competing forms of travel. In Toronto Montreal and Vancouver there are all secondary airports (Toronto Island, Mirabel, and Abbotsford) respectively which detract somewhat from the numbers of the main airports. Also important is the presence of alternate forms of transit, being VIA in Montreal and Toronto and float planes in Vancouver. These alternate methods of transit detract from the numbers of passengers who would be flying something like AC Jazz if these alternate services did not exist.

Proximity to American airports is also a major factor. I know personally I have flown out of Sea-Tac and Detroit/Buffalo almost as many times as I have YVR and Pearson due to the major cost savings. Unfortunately for Calgary (although fortunately for it's airport authority) there isn't a large American city nearby to provide it with this alternative.

YYC is the hub for the prairie provinces going east/BC (I know Sask folks that actually buy tickets to YYZ/YUL via YYC! - travel west to go east :koko: ) and YYC domestic numbers show this. YVR is the domestic hub for most of BC and Canadian International hub for travel east (Asia/Australia/Pacific Islands). YVR is geographically unsuited to be a 'Western Canada" hub for domestic travel.

I know LOTS of people who fly via Sea/Tac to points in Asia/US/Europe instead of YVR from Victoria. This is usually due to cost and/or schedule. I fly out of Seatac as much as YVR - Seatac is only a 20 min flight from Victoria and is just as busy as YYZ (32.3 million pass) with much better US connections than YVR.

I remember reading recently that Victoria's Harbour "airport" (flights to Seattle/Vancouver direct Harbour-Harbour) handles 250,000 passengers a year. That would be in addition to our main airport numbers.

LFRENCH May 20, 2009 3:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craneSpotter (Post 4258443)
YYC is the hub for the prairie provinces going east/BC (I know Sask folks that actually buy tickets to YYZ/YUL via YYC! - travel west to go east :koko: ) and YYC domestic numbers show this. YVR is the domestic hub for most of BC and Canadian International hub for travel east (Asia/Australia/Pacific Islands). YVR is geographically unsuited to be a 'Western Canada" hub for domestic travel.

I know LOTS of people who fly via Sea/Tac to points in Asia/US/Europe instead of YVR from Victoria. This is usually due to cost and/or schedule. I fly out of Seatac as much as YVR - Seatac is only a 20 min flight from Victoria and is just as busy as YYZ (32.3 million pass) with much better US connections than YVR.

I remember reading recently that Victoria's Harbour "airport" (flights to Seattle/Vancouver direct Harbour-Harbour) handles 250,000 passengers a year. That would be in addition to our main airport numbers.

I agree and living on the island i would rather connect in edmonton or Calgary, and if going to teh states it varies.

keep in mind the cost though abuot the east west thing, I once flew to my house in El Paso TX, and ended up connecting in Houston as it was $200 than doing a connection in PHX at that time.

Architype May 20, 2009 4:40 AM

Until 2005, St. John's NL would have been #10; it was passed by Kelowna in 2006.

Can anyone provide a list of all Canadian Airports that are International? Wikipedia seems to have questionable info.

98fb May 20, 2009 4:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko999 (Post 4258065)
Montreal is close to some big cities like NYC, Washington, Boston, Philadelphia, Toronto, Ottawa. Calgary is not.
I always drive to go to Florida. It's easy, no mountains, nothing. You can also visit others cities if you use a car. As you see below, Calgary and Edmonton's traffic is mainly domestic.

Tourism is not the problem in Montreal, YUL have the largest % of international traffic even if it's competing against US airports and Pearson.
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5...1242773130.png


driving to florida. lol! :koko:


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