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-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

JHikka Apr 19, 2018 5:31 PM

Figured i'd do some digging on this:

Q1 2018 figures:

Twitter Followers:
NBA 27.6M
NFL 24.6M
MLB 8.34M
NHL 6.25M
MLS 3.21M
CFL 274K

Reddit Subscribers
r/NBA 1,503,596
r/NFL 764,629
r/baseball 673,812
r/hockey 544,535
r/MLS 80,982
r/CFL 9,816

Instagram followers:
NBA 27.7M
NFL 11.1M
MLB 4.2M
NHL 2.9M
MLS 902K
CFL 89.7K

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 5:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity (Post 8160596)
That's surprising to me. I think if I was to take a similar survey about athletes with the most clout, it would be mostly NBA stars with a couple NFL players mixed in. In Canada maybe Sidney Crosby but I think that'd be it. Steph Curry, Kevin Durant and LeBron for sure. When it comes to sport celebrity, I don't think any league does it better than the NBA.

Maybe Quebec is different.

I suppose that boys on a high school basketball team here in Gatineau or even in Shawinigan or Rimouski might know those names and a few other NBA stars, but except for LeBron James possibly I doubt the name recognition really spills over into people who are "passive" about such things.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 6:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy6 (Post 8160597)
I certainly knew of basketball and NFL stars when I was growing up. Joe Namath and Wilt Chamberlain were about the biggest celebrities in the young boy’s world at the time (along with Mohammed Ali and Evel Knievel). But they still seemed foreign and not really having that much to do with me, unlike Blue Bombers players, the Canadiens’, Leafs’ or Jets’ players, or even curling stars.

I grew up in the Maritimes and Ontario and was never much into basketball but I knew of Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Isaiah Thomas, Dr J., Dennis Rodman, and a few others. Manute Bol, Hakeem Olajuwon. And some NCAA types like Bobby Knight, Jerry Tarkanian. Lakers coach Pat Riley...

All of this by osmosis I guess.

le calmar Apr 19, 2018 6:20 PM

The only time I hear or even talk about basketball is with my acquaintances or my step family from Toronto (most of which if not all were born and raised in Asia) or my friends in France. Other than that basketball is pretty far down the list in my everyday sports related conversations after hockey, football, baseball and soccer.

esquire Apr 19, 2018 6:30 PM

I suppose that every region has its sports preference quirks... if you're listening to a heated AM radio discussion about the CFL, there's a decent chance you might be in Saskatchewan. By the same token, if you're listening to a few workers on a break talking about tonight's NBA games, chances are you're in Toronto.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 6:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le calmar (Post 8160674)
The only time I hear or even talk about basketball is with my acquaintances or my step family from Toronto (most of which if not all were born and raised in Asia) or my friends in France. Other than that basketball is pretty far down the list in my everyday sports related conversations after hockey, football, baseball and soccer.

Funny thing about France (and other foreign countries too). People always assume that just because we're right next to the U.S. we automatically know all about this or that American thing that they've latched onto.

So you get this French or Swedish guy who wants to chat about the NBA finals between Golden State and Indiana, and you're totally clueless...

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 7:12 PM

Just checked with a few office colleagues who have younger boys.

They all said the only NBA player that would register with their kids would be LeBron James. (None of the boys play basketball.)

Household names of other pro athletes that cut across kids' personal pursuits were Sidney Crosby, PK Subban, Carey Price... Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi.

No NFL or MLB players unless the kids happen to be really really into those sports.

megadude Apr 19, 2018 7:19 PM

Haven't really been following this thread except for the past couple of days. I'll throw in some experience from my current perspective. Which is through running office pools in a finance office in downtown TO.

Before that, I'll mention that as a kid growing up in Brampton in the late 80s through the 90s, I knew of a handful of Indian kids that followed NHL. But there were more into NBA than NHL, and this was pre-Raptors. Also was good friends with a Chinese guy and a Lebanese guy who were devout NHL guys in addition to being Jays and NFL fans, but not NBA. And for the black kids, one casually followed NHL but rest definitely leaned towards NBA.

On to the office pools. If there isn't a note beside them, then they are white. Almost all from around here, with two from Kingston, one from Ottawa and one from Sault Ste. Marie (he's into the 4 major sports but not CFL or college - also a big time bettor and bets min. $100 a game).

The ones with notes are different races, ranging from mid 20s to late 30s. And ya, immigrants or kids of immigrants skew towards basketball and soccer from this viewpoint.

NHL Team Pool
SP
JP
RG mid 30s jamaican/chinese/german
GJ
MV
PB

NHL Player Pool
EW
MF
JP
GG
RC
AR
JS late 20s jamaican
EW
PB
SA late 30s indian from india/england/NB
SP
GJ
SP
JW
GC mid 30s chinese
RG mid 30s jamaican/chinese/german

NFL
MV
TM
SP
RG mid 30s jamaican/chinese/german
GG
GJ
PB
JP
NP

NBA
TM
MA mid 30s jewish
JL early 30s chinese/trinidadian
RG mid 30s jamaican/chinese/german
GJ
GS early 30s chinese
RB mid 20s indian
JS late 20s jamaican
JP
SS mid 20s indian
MV
GG
AN late 30s vietnamese
HS late 30s chinese

Premier League & Champions League
RG mid 30s jamaican/chinese/german
JL early 30s chinese/trinidadian
GS early 30s chinese
SA late 30s indian from india/england/NB
TM
MM late 30s jamaican/white
CT
RB mid 20s indian

MLB
JP
RG mid 30s jamaican/chinese/german
JS late 20s jamaican
MV
PB
SP
GJ

MonkeyRonin Apr 19, 2018 7:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8160168)
But are kids in other diverse high-immigration globalized countries like the U.S. and Australia writing off the locally unique sports like MLB, NFL, Aussie rules? I think you'll find that while soccer and basketball are popular and growing there, the unique national sports still retain their popularity.


But is that not also the case in Canada? Are hockey ratings or interest or participation in Canada really in some sort of tailspin, as you seem to be implying? Or, even declining at all? Or is what is it what's actually happening is that the growth of "new" sports like basketball and soccer are simply rising at a faster rate?



Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8160127)
I realize you're a long-time basketball fan but you're also a keen observer of society, people, Canada, etc.

So surely you know that for a lot of people, there is more to this than simply really liking basketball.


Like who? Who really sits through a 2 hour game because of some sort of deep-rooted cultural cringe that's causing an aversion to a completely different sport? Who's even cheering on this supposed demise of hockey? I think you're reading way too much into the fact that people just like basketball (and also if we're being honest, that the NBA has marketed themselves to young people far more successfully than other leagues).

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 7:33 PM

Regarding those office pools - Interesting that interest in the NFL is about as "white" as interest in the NHL.

I've noticed how in Canada at least interest in the NFL among younger generations of immigrant origin kids seems to have dropped off.

When I was a kid in the 80s interest in the NFL was quite high among immigrant kids. Part of a trio that almost all guys followed regardless of origin: NHL-MLB-NFL. Some were also interested in the CFL, but many were not. NBA had its fans but it was more of a niche thing.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 7:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin (Post 8160792)
But is that not also the case in Canada? Are hockey ratings or interest or participation in Canada really in some sort of tailspin, as you seem to be implying? Or, even declining at all? Or is what is it what's actually happening is that the growth of "new" sports like basketball and soccer are simply rising at a faster rate?






Like who? Who really sits through a 2 hour game because of some sort of deep-rooted cultural cringe that's causing an aversion to a completely different sport? Who's even cheering on this supposed demise of hockey? I think you're reading way too much into the fact that people just like basketball (and also if we're being honest, that the NBA has marketed themselves to young people far more successfully than other leagues).

That's a lot of people with a deep-seated basketball culture:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bmzwhv8IUAEobi2.jpg:large

suburbanite Apr 19, 2018 7:42 PM

In my experience most disdain for hockey is a result of it dominating media coverage over someone's preferred sport.

I'm a regular visitor to the Raptors and Blue Jays subreddits, and for the most part your typical visitor is a fan (at least casually) of the 3 big teams in the city. However, you do come across the odd post trashing the Leafs and their fans. There is a large population of Raptors fans in the community from across Canada so it could be them just supporting their local NHL team. Though it often comes across as "Fuck the Leafs, people should be coming out to support the Raptors and TSN should be giving them more coverage."

suburbanite Apr 19, 2018 7:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8160810)
That's a lot of people with a deep-seated basketball culture:

What's your counterpoint? They're only there so they can post it on Instagram?

osmo Apr 19, 2018 7:45 PM

NFL is not the classic American game. NFL (modern) was created for the TV age and is much a product of modern Americana just as much as Disney was. The classic American game is very much baseball. That is the sport the nation grew up with and is largely the sport interwoven into classic USA history. NFL was not taken seriously in America up until the 1970s.

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 7:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo (Post 8160816)
NFL is not the classic American game. NFL (modern) was created for the TV age and is much a product of modern Americana just as much as Disney was. The classic American game is very much baseball. That is the sport the nation grew up with and is largely the sport interwoven into classic USA history. NFL was not taken seriously in America up until the 1970s.

Kinda like... hockey in Canada. :haha:

Acajack Apr 19, 2018 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 8160814)
What's your counterpoint? They're only there so they can post it on Instagram?

A lot of them - for sure. Bandwagons are fun. I've been on them many times before.

For the record I'm not any more impressed by the dead suits who occupy lots of seats at hockey games, especially in Toronto and Montreal.

suburbanite Apr 19, 2018 8:03 PM

Most of the people in that photo look pretty young, and a large majority look like they could be first or second generation immigrants. There is no doubt that basketball and the Raptors are by far the most popular among kids of East Indian, Chinese, Filipino, and Jamaican descent in Toronto.

Sure, the numbers will probably dwindle if the Raptors decline. However I think the last 5 years have created a solid, permanent fan base among a racially diverse young cohort in this city.

jonny24 Apr 19, 2018 8:45 PM

I think, wherever you might be, the "top sport" will be seen to be eroding, and other "new" or "foreign" sports growing, just because due to the internet people are exposed to sports from all over the world. In theory, it could level out so that there was a proportionate amount of support for any number of sports. That obviously won't happen due to history/culture, etc, but it's not like hockey is going to die because lots of people like basket ball.

I'm clearly an outlier in this thread though. I'm 24, and these days I'm only really interested in CFL and rugby. Never really got into hockey since I never played, but I don't mind watching it. I have no interest in baseball, soccer or basketball though. I've tried to get into NFL but without a connection to any of the teams I have nothing emotionally invested. I've even been dropping off on watching rugby since I don't actually care about any those cities in England/Aus/NZ, and Canada is so terrible now. But the Ontario Arrows will hopefully join MLR next year :cheers:

thurmas Apr 19, 2018 11:03 PM

Interesting that the Winnipeg Blue Bombers draw similar revenue to that of many MLS teams including the New York Red Bulls at $32 million

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-soccer-teams/

https://globalnews.ca/news/4153348/w...-in-the-black/

EpicPonyTime Apr 19, 2018 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 8161147)
Interesting that the Winnipeg Blue Bombers draw similar revenue to that of many MLS teams including the New York Red Bulls at $32 million

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-soccer-teams/

https://globalnews.ca/news/4153348/w...-in-the-black/

I wonder if the profit margins are so narrow for MLS teams, though. If I'm not mistaken, Winnipeg is usually the second best team in the CFL financially after the Riders and they barely made money this year. Can't imagine what the situation is like in Montreal, BC or Toronto.


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