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-   -   Most liberal cheap/affordable cities? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=240455)

llamaorama Sep 30, 2019 2:45 AM

Most liberal cheap/affordable cities?
 
See title.

I would say Minneapolis or Madison.

Sun Belt Sep 30, 2019 3:29 AM

Wouldn't just about every midwestern city fit the requirements of your question?

SIGSEGV Sep 30, 2019 4:15 AM

Lots of college towns probably...

Crawford Sep 30, 2019 10:55 AM

Are college towns that cheap? Ann Arbor is extremely expensive for Midwest standards.

dc_denizen Sep 30, 2019 11:37 AM

Yellow springs, oh

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...34183121_zpid/

Sun Belt Sep 30, 2019 1:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8702196)
Are college towns that cheap? Ann Arbor is extremely expensive for Midwest standards.

True. The college towns I've lived in all had elevated housing prices compared to the surrounding cities in their region.

photoLith Sep 30, 2019 1:16 PM

My rent in Oakland, Pittsburgh is 475 a month. Oakland is the student ghetto basically of Carnegie Mellon, university of Pittsburgh, etc. it's probably the cheapest urban non bombed out neighborhood in the city. So Pittsburgh is still pretty affordable I'd say but I've always found cheap shit apartments to live in. I like saving money so i can travel all the time so don't mind living in a craphole.

SIGSEGV Sep 30, 2019 1:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Belt (Post 8702241)
True. The college towns I've lived in all had elevated housing prices compared to the surrounding cities in their region.

Yes, they're expensive relative to podunk places. And some have fucked up housing markets (like Ithaca). But they're cheap compared to bigger places with comparable quality of life.

iheartthed Sep 30, 2019 3:28 PM

How are we defining "liberal"? I would be surprised if any big city in the Midwest, except maybe Columbus and Indianapolis, is not overwhelmingly Democratic.

pj3000 Sep 30, 2019 3:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_denizen (Post 8702207)
Yellow springs, oh

Yellow Springs, Ohio might be liberal, but it isn't all that cheap.

If you're seeking liberal AND cheap, then Golden Showers, Pennsylvania is where it's at.

BnaBreaker Sep 30, 2019 6:32 PM

Maybe Lawrence, Kansas?

JManc Sep 30, 2019 6:40 PM

Small College towns are fun if you're under 30. Other than that, I always thought Chicago is pretty damn affordable (to rent) for a huge city that still highly progressive/ liberal. It's pretty much on par with Houston with cost-of-living-wise.

sopas ej Sep 30, 2019 7:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000 (Post 8702412)
yellow springs, ohio might be liberal, but it isn't all that cheap.

If you're seeking liberal and cheap, then golden showers, pennsylvania is where it's at.

lol!

Sun Belt Sep 30, 2019 8:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 8702665)
Small College towns are fun if you're under 30. Other than that, I always thought Chicago is pretty damn affordable (to rent) for a huge city that still highly progressive/ liberal. It's pretty much on par with Houston with cost-of-living-wise.

I thought the exact same. I still cannot believe the pricing I saw in March, in one of the most desirable residential districts within walking distance to the El.

I kept saying, don't they realize what they could actually get?! Then I was like, oh yeah, it's Chicago and it's 28 degrees in March, yeah I'd rather live in Florida for the same price and with lower taxes.

Even with that said, I was/am seriously considering a move to the very windy and frigid city of Chicago.

Sun Belt Sep 30, 2019 8:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000 (Post 8702412)
If you're seeking liberal AND cheap, then Golden Showers, Pennsylvania is where it's at.

That's a nice area, however, I prefer the greater Dezinformatsiya, PA area. The green tree covered hillsides next to the abandoned mills and churches is beautiful.

Steely Dan Sep 30, 2019 8:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Belt (Post 8702804)
it's Chicago and it's 28 degrees in March

the average overnight low temp in chicago in march is 31 degrees.

the average daytime high at that time of year is a balmy 47 degrees.

which i understand still sounds fucking polar to a southern californian, but chicago's winter weather is cold enough as it is, there's no need to exaggerate it.

Sun Belt Sep 30, 2019 8:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 8702275)
Yes, they're expensive relative to podunk places. And some have fucked up housing markets (like Ithaca). But they're cheap compared to bigger places with comparable quality of life.

Not just "podunk places", they're elevated even in elite places.

Sun Belt Sep 30, 2019 8:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8702822)
the average overnight low temp in chicago in march is 31 degrees.

the average daytime high at that time of year is a balmy 47 degrees.

which i understand still sounds fucking polar to a southern californian, but chicago's winter weather is cold enough as it is, there's no need to exaggerate it.

I'm not exaggerating it. Those were the actual daytime temps when I was there in March, 2018.

I know it was an abnormally cold snap, [which I loved to be honest]. I'd rather it be super cold, flurries, than some wishy/washy, cold but not enjoyable drizzle nonsense.

Steely Dan Sep 30, 2019 8:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Belt (Post 8702840)
I'm not exaggerating it. Those were the actual daytime temps when I was there in March, 2018.

I know it was an abnormally cold snap, [which I loved to be honest].

oh, i didn't realize you were speaking of a one-off experience.

yes, we can and do get winter-like cold snaps in march from time to time, but that's not the normal.

on the other side of the coin, we can also be in the 60s in march during a warm spell, but again not the the normal.

Sun Belt Sep 30, 2019 8:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8702843)
oh, i didn't realize you were speaking of a one-off experience.

yes, we can and do get winter-like cold snaps in march from time to time, but that's not the normal.

on the other side of the coin, we can also be in the 60s in march during a warm spell, but again not the the normal.

Yeah it was one time experience on a leisure trip to Chicago. I've been there a few times before, but never once on leisure.

This time, was the first time I specifically went there to take in and enjoy the city of Chicago. It was cold, grey, windy and I loved it, but that's coming from perfect weather most of the year.

Like I said, I went out of my way on the trip to investigate pricing. I probably walked through your neighborhood, or somewhat close to it. Took the Red Line and walked back to the Loop, while my cheeks froze off.

ColDayMan Sep 30, 2019 9:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 8702388)
How are we defining "liberal"? I would be surprised if any big city in the Midwest, except maybe Columbus and Indianapolis, is not overwhelmingly Democratic.

The city of Columbus is overwhelmingly Democratic. I don't know about Indianapolis.

Steely Dan Sep 30, 2019 9:43 PM

the midwest sorta defines the "blue urban islands in a rural sea of red" pattern

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...7/41.73/-88.22

even indy looks solidly blue in its core, just like its midwest cousins.

Sun Belt Sep 30, 2019 9:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8702942)
the midwest sorta defines the "blue urban islands in a rural sea of red" pattern

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...7/41.73/-88.22

even indy looks solidly blue in its core, just like its midwest cousins.

True. Goes back to my OP in the topic:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Belt
Wouldn't just about every midwestern city fit the requirements of your question?


Chef Sep 30, 2019 10:58 PM

The question is whether voting Democrat is the correct marker for a city being liberal. There is a wide range of different types of Democrats. The second question would be what cities have parties to the left of the Democrats (Greens, Socialist Action, etc) that are competitive in city elections? I know that Minneapolis and Seattle do. I don't know beyond that. Beyond that there is the question of whether the way a city votes in general is a good way to determine whether it is liberal or conservative in general. It can also be about how permissive a city is which is different than electoral politics.

SFBruin Oct 1, 2019 12:47 AM

I would imagine that Pittsburgh, PA, would be on this list.

pdxtex Oct 1, 2019 3:09 AM

its probably someplace in upstate new york. buffalo, rochester....or syracuse! have you seen how nice of a house for cheap you can get in syracuse? in town, 1830 farm house on half an acre with a little out building and barn? 99k....https://www.redfin.com/NY/Syracuse/3.../home/72892247

JManc Oct 1, 2019 3:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxtex (Post 8703234)
its probably someplace in upstate new york. buffalo, rochester....or syracuse! have you seen how nice of a house for cheap you can get in syracuse?

Upstate NY isn't as cheap as many would believe it is. Sure, there are super cheap houses bordering inner city Detroit prices but they are in bombed out areas but a nice house in a nice neighborhood in a good school district is at least 200-250k in an area with depressed wages and crazy taxes.

pdxtex Oct 1, 2019 3:48 AM

OP said nothing about livability. if were talking "nice" cities that are liberal and affordable. mmm, that probably minneapolis, columbus, indy, grand rapids. places like that.

pj3000 Oct 1, 2019 5:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8702942)
the midwest sorta defines the "blue urban islands in a rural sea of red" pattern

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...7/41.73/-88.22

It seems like just about any city of 50k population or greater is blue, even if the surrounding county is pinkish or red.

even indy looks solidly blue in its core, just like its midwest cousins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFBruin (Post 8703143)
I would imagine that Pittsburgh, PA, would be on this list.

Somewhat... Pittsburgh definitely has very liberal neighborhoods, but I wouldn’t classify the city as liberal (Democratic, yes. But more the labor union Democrat style). And certainly not the region... very conservative outside of Allegheny County.

In the 2008 election, the metro area was among the only regions that turned more red (along with places in W Virginia and Mississippi). Because... you know, Obama is a black man. Pittsburgh is still Appalachia, and quite racist in much of the region.

And it’s becoming less and less affordable as the west coast techies move in.

pj3000 Oct 1, 2019 5:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxtex (Post 8703265)
OP said nothing about livability. if were talking "nice" cities that are liberal and affordable. mmm, that probably minneapolis, columbus, indy, grand rapids. places like that.

You think Indianapolis is nice?

And I don’t think that Grand Rapids would be considered liberal. Nor would Columbus.

SFBruin Oct 1, 2019 7:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000 (Post 8703326)
In the 2008 election, the metro area was among the only regions that turned more red (along with places in W Virginia and Mississippi). Because... you know, Obama is a black man.

You live there, so you probably know more about the region than I do. I just know from my aunt living there that the city is pretty education-focused and still relatively affordable.

pj3000 Oct 1, 2019 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFBruin (Post 8703345)
I just know from my aunt living there that the city is pretty education-focused and still relatively affordable.

Oh yeah, I would definitely agree with that

pdxtex Oct 1, 2019 1:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000 (Post 8703327)
You think Indianapolis is nice?

And I don’t think that Grand Rapids would be considered liberal. Nor would Columbus.

its got historically positive population gain, an unemployment rate under 4 percent and its a state capital and isnt rife with crime. thats what most cities strive for. carry on.

pj3000 Oct 1, 2019 1:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxtex (Post 8703437)
its got historically positive population gain, an unemployment rate under 4 percent and its a state capital and isnt rife with crime. thats what most cities strive for. carry on.

You think Indianapolis is nice?

Shawn Oct 1, 2019 1:44 PM

Maybe not a first choice, but satellite Boston and Providence cities like Worcester, Lowell, Fall River, and Pawtucket are all super liberal (the New England type, not the California type too), and shockingly affordable - especially given how close they are to Boston. Providence itself is even affordable. Not as affordable as some of the Midwest cities already mentioned, but still quite doable.

Steely Dan Oct 1, 2019 1:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxtex (Post 8703437)
isnt rife with crime.

indianapolis had a homicide rate nearly as high as chicago's last year (18.3 per 100K vs. 20.8 per 100K).

and indy did a city/county uni-gov merger decades ago. if chicago and cook county were consolidated like indy/marion county, chicago's homicide rate would actually be much lower than indy's.

can we now say that chicago isn't rife with crime too?

iheartthed Oct 1, 2019 2:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000 (Post 8703439)
You think Indianapolis is nice?

Indy's PR game is solid.

Centropolis Oct 1, 2019 3:23 PM

fuck indianapolis :haha:

Vlajos Oct 1, 2019 3:47 PM

Indianoplis is referred to as Naptown for a reason. It is horribly boring and generic. And as Steely points out, it is not a low crime city.

montréaliste Oct 1, 2019 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centropolis (Post 8703600)
fuck indianapolis :haha:

My middle finger tells me you don't like Indianapolis.

SunDevil Oct 2, 2019 12:37 AM

Phoenix is still pretty affordable but not what most would call liberal culturally, but, the city government itself is pretty liberal. Tucson is pretty "blue" and is even cheaper than Phoenix. A smaller town out west that trends a bit liberal but is cheap would be Missoula, MT or kinda/sorta Flagstaff, AZ. But, I agree with other posters that this is the mid west/great lakes wheel house.

muertecaza Oct 2, 2019 1:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunDevil (Post 8704180)
Phoenix is still pretty affordable but not what most would call liberal culturally, but, the city government itself is pretty liberal. Tucson is pretty "blue" and is even cheaper than Phoenix. A smaller town out west that trends a bit liberal but is cheap would be Missoula, MT or kinda/sorta Flagstaff, AZ. But, I agree with other posters that this is the mid west/great lakes wheel house.

Yeah I wouldn't call Phoenix liberal at all. While the city government has majority Democrats (albeit in ostensibly non-partisan elections), it is a slim majority of lite Democrats, with an outspoken conservative minority. And the metro area was the largest population center to vote plurality Trump in 2016.

Tucson isn't a bad suggestion though. Cheaper and more liberal than Phoenix.

My impression is that Flagstaff is too expensive to qualify.

Chef Oct 2, 2019 6:40 PM

How expensive is Albuquerque? I've never been, but it seems to have a low profile despite being a sunbelt city in a relatively liberal state.

JManc Oct 2, 2019 7:02 PM

New Mexico is fairly Democrat but not really 'liberal' but I think ABQ is middle of the road and is pretty affordable. Tucson seemed more liberal from my impression...given the university.

Buckeye Native 001 Oct 2, 2019 7:50 PM

Flagstaff has by far the highest cost of living in Arizona. It's a tiny blue dot in a sea of red but by no means affordable.

jtown,man Oct 3, 2019 12:32 AM

I've been obsessed with geography and cities since I could write.

To this day I know more about Beijing than I do New Mexico. Such a weird place to me...

benp Oct 5, 2019 8:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 8703242)
Upstate NY isn't as cheap as many would believe it is. Sure, there are super cheap houses bordering inner city Detroit prices but they are in bombed out areas but a nice house in a nice neighborhood in a good school district is at least 200-250k in an area with depressed wages and crazy taxes.

There are plenty of nice houses in-between "bombed-out" and 200k. It is not one extreme or the other.

homebucket Oct 6, 2019 3:17 AM

Seattle, Chicago, or Philadelphia. If I had to pick a cheaper, but still liberal place to move to, it'd be one of these cities.

Prahaboheme Oct 12, 2019 2:53 AM

Baltimore?

xzmattzx Oct 12, 2019 4:03 AM

New Mexico is blue, but not overtly liberal. Santa Fe is more liberal than other places in the state. As a whole, New Mexico is not as socially liberal as places in, say, New England. They are big on larger safety nets and welfare or handouts, depending on how you look at it, because the state is poor and more people need it there.

It may be accurate to say that New Mexico is more like the Black Belt or Rust Belt than Boston or San Francisco or Portland when it comes to politics.


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