.

While people are debating the spire, we are missing out on the important stuff. Its rising!

This is the age people. :worship:

:cheers:

Image from JR.

Nordstrom + 220 South.
Credit: http://www.yimbyforums.com/t/new-yor...-floors/260/51
http://standard-discourseorg.netdna-...4aa6185274.jpg

I know it's basically sacrilege to say this on SSP, especially as my first post, but Nordstrom is the one project going up in NYC that I truly can't stand, simply because it values sheer height over good design. Thankfully there's such a glut of luxury housing on 57th that probably nothing more than the first 2-3 stories of this monstrosity will ever see the light of day.

^:koko:

Yes, I know, I must be crazy to oppose the sacred height-at-all-costs doctrine of SSP. However, I stand by my opinion of this tower, and I hope to God that competition from better-designed projects like Steinway and Tower Verre kills it.

If my memory serves me right, Steinway and verre are all residential. Nordstrom will have retail, hotel and residential. Maybe even office. They are not really in direct competition. And you have to understand, even when something is somewhat bland (hint original wtc), it can be beautiful based on sheer size alone. That has its own quality to it. Just my 2¢.

Impressive purely as a function of size. Not beautiful. A building need not be ornate to be beautiful. Some buildings are stunning in their clean lines and simplicity. But Nordstrom is no stunner. That said, I remain happy to see it rise. Sorry to burst your bubble, Phyllis, but it is rising...this is happening.

Magnitude and scale are certainly a virtue of their own in many cases, but the overall context really matters, especially where there is nothing spectacular about the proportions or design of the building. If this were rising in LIC, downtown Brooklyn, Jersey City or even the Hudson Yards or FiDi, I'd be extremely excited for it. Those areas could all really benefit from a dominating peak, even if it's not all that interesting.

57th Street is at a different point of maturity than those areas, though. This view from the park is quickly becoming the trophy case for elegant supertalls in NYC (e.g., Torre Verre, Stienway, 220 CPS...), all of which will be somewhat diminished by the distractingly large and bland tower Barnett is putting up right next to them.

This is where context really changes the equation for the value of additional density. Given the number of supertalls going up on 57th already, the benefits of additional height in this location are relatively small. Given the quality of surrounding architecture, the cost of uninspired design is relatively high. I don't think that this tower is a travesty or anything, and I have no doubt that it will end up being built, but I would have welcomed a substantial height chop here if one would have come. This is a premier location--we would have gotten plenty of other supertalls to make up for any loss--if ever we were to see a supertall go unrealized I would have picked this one.

Well, I guess here's to hoping that Barnett has another design change in store for us.

Images from JR Ewing:

Credit: http://www.yimbyforums.com/t/new-yor...-floors/260/56
http://standard-discourseorg.netdna-...485626504a.jpg

http://standard-discourseorg.netdna-...e7d42d2692.jpg

I agree with this. Of course, Barnett only cares about money. His goal when it comes to design is the absolute bare minimum. I actually hope that there are no further design changes, because doubtlessly these changes would be for the sake of saving him money and making the tower appear cheaper. This tower is a done deal so I'm afraid there is no hope of it not be built.

Looking at the current spire-less design for tower, it definitely seemed that the spire was tacked on unlike the spires on 1 WTC and BoFA which were always meant to be apart of those designs. Besides, I'm just glad we have a tower with a 1550' roof.

I think i was more referring to the point you were trying to make about this monstrosity not rising more than 2-3 stories to see the light of day. Being the tallest in New York it will be seeing the most light of day no? :???:

LMAO:laugh::laugh:

Oh, this looks ugly....

CityGuy87 - above you talked about the "definitely tacked-on" look . .
of 217 W 57 St.'s spire . . I can't figure how anybody can say that about this fine finial.
. . It's a perfect pinnacle that seems to seat seamlessly into the structure . .

I so wish I could impress upon those building this tower . .
that CPT's spire will visually be the very least "tacked on" modern configuration around.
What the world-class deco tower spires of the late 20s - early 30s . .
brought to the image of NYC . . cannot be overestimated . . .
Neither can this one.

More than any of the other contemporary post-911 Manhattan spires . .
(tower One - NYT - B.ofA.) . . that were so much about bragging greater height . .
without having to deliver actual human tenants at such elevations . .
this particular important deco-ish emblem . . will be a gratifying peerless urban scepter
. . visualizing NYC's identity and continuing preeminence into the 21st century.

I have never felt more passionate about an architectural element . .
being so Intrinsic to a building's design . . . CPT 's deco spire . .
is by no means disproportionate unwieldy or incongruous as those others are . .
It is by no means an insignificant frivolous gesture . .

It's amazing how this deco spire makes the building look more moderne -
more unique - more important - more New York ! - more whoop ! . .
Without it - well - few will know the building's identity or significance . .
a sliver of higher parapet wall won't make a bit of difference visually . . .
nor will the "so-what" number 1550 get tourists flocking . . . Shanghai numbers perhaps.
Worst of all - I will always have to see the effortless vacuum . .
- the architectural lack of enthusiasm - at the top of this dull building . .
a building that had such great potential . . Yes kiddies even tall buildings can be boring.

Indeed that Is how important this single detail is . . .

I think it's a decent design (much better than 432 PA), but it does need the spire though... :cool:

432 reaches its full potential and then some . .
It's all of a piece aesthetically . It doesn't need to have a spire.
It's the tallest - skinniest - most outrageous "only-in-New York" background building.

Even though CPT is taller - WITHOUT its spire - it isn't as good architecturally as 432.
It hardly reaches its potential because its design needs its perfect fitting spire.
Everybody will see it's a very tall building. But there's nothing to distinguish its identity.
(nobody will even notice the cantilever unless they're standing across the street) . .

WITH its spire . .
CPT rivals any skyscraper in NYC . . it's distinctive . . heroic . .
It'll be better than 432 because it steps up to it's role as the city's "tallest" visually.
. . and will be one of the town's most recognized and beloved.

Completely agree. The spire makes this building look modern and sleek. Without the spire, it's the most uninspired building of its size in the world.

Looking at the roof it seems to me that the walls surrounding it are what will bring the height to 1550'. The actual roof seems about 40-70 feet sunk in. So that means the actual structural roof height will be anywhere from 1480-1510'. I just hope at the least it winds up actually taller than the sears/willets tower. At least give nyc its title back. (and yes the design sucks as most nyc Oligarch housing does) j

From yesterday. Few more weeks and it will be street level.

Looking south.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/582/2...e849d260_b.jpg



https://farm1.staticflickr.com/777/2...a0f5c520_b.jpg


Looking north.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5664/...12d6475e_b.jpg



Core is raising.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/637/2...0e5a018d_c.jpg



Core is becoming more visible now.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5698/...a96558a2_c.jpg


https://farm1.staticflickr.com/584/2...fb5caf6f_c.jpg