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thewave46 Jun 6, 2021 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9303416)
I think they were also offered undesirable slots at PVG, and possibly only short-term slots similar to the LHR ones they obtained? I mean if WS really wanted to serve China of course they could have launched something like YYC-ICN-PVG.

Between the number of aircraft required to serve a route like that daily (I think it requires at least 3 and they've only 10 787s total) and the downward pressure of fares from the competition from Chinese carriers, I don't foresee Westjet getting into that game.

With European destinations, they only require one aircraft due to scheduling. Leave North America in the evening, fly back during the day.

nname Jun 7, 2021 1:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9303541)
Between the number of aircraft required to serve a route like that daily (I think it requires at least 3 and they've only 10 787s total) and the downward pressure of fares from the competition from Chinese carriers, I don't foresee Westjet getting into that game.

With European destinations, they only require one aircraft due to scheduling. Leave North America in the evening, fly back during the day.

During pandemic, they would only have at most 2x weekly, so 1 aircraft is more than enough. However, since they did not operate to China before and during the pandemic (Mar 2020), it is very unlikely they'll get the permission.

Outside of the pandemic, YYC/YVR-PEK/PVG will only need a bit more than 1 aircraft to run daily. AC round-trip time for YVR-China is about 23.5 to 24.5 hours (between YVR departure and arrival time).

whatnext Jun 7, 2021 4:28 AM

Air Canada execs returning those controversial bonuses:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...s-over-public/

Dominion301 Jun 7, 2021 1:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 (Post 9303538)
1000 km? No. ≤600 km? Sure. A lot of the TOM triangle flights, Corridor feeders into Pearson and CalEd corridor flights could and should be eliminated.

Unless electrification is done....eventually. It would be lower emission than a diesel Via Rail train.

Interesting article about the progress Harbour Air is making with electrification.

The existing tech they're testing can handle 20 minute flights...enough for Vancouver Harbour-Victoria Harbour. By the time certification is done, they foresee 48 minute flight capability.

Also in there is a small airline in Australia doing the same thing, but with a Cessna Caravan.

https://www.aerospacetestinginternat...-aircraft.html

hollywoodcory Jun 7, 2021 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9303641)
During pandemic, they would only have at most 2x weekly, so 1 aircraft is more than enough. However, since they did not operate to China before and during the pandemic (Mar 2020), it is very unlikely they'll get the permission.

Outside of the pandemic, YYC/YVR-PEK/PVG will only need a bit more than 1 aircraft to run daily. AC round-trip time for YVR-China is about 23.5 to 24.5 hours (between YVR departure and arrival time).

It actually sounds like they got the approval, but didn't like the conditions it came with. Given WS hasn't served Asia at all, it was probably smart they opted to not bother.

Even with a partnership with KE, it doesn't make sense at the moment to open two Asian destinations (either ICN or NRT) just to serve China.

nname Jun 7, 2021 6:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9304082)
It actually sounds like they got the approval, but didn't like the conditions it came with. Given WS hasn't served Asia at all, it was probably smart they opted to not bother.

Got approval before the pandemic and during are two different things. China was specifically looking at whether the airline served China during the month of March 2020. It took months for AC to get approval for getting back into China because it did not operate into China since Feb 2020. And AC only got it because Chinese airlines have 6x weekly service into Canada, and they may lost them if the Chinese authority completely blocked AC. So what's the chance of WS getting the approval now? Basically zero especially when AC wants the last 2 slots.

So basically all the routes into China right now falls into the following 3 categories:
1. The routes that are operated during Mar 2020
2. The routes that are operated before the pandemic (by negotiation of foreign airlines)
3. New routes that foreign airlines are allow to operate in replacement of former PVG or PEK route because of slot and restrictions (also by negotiation)

Other than that, no new airlines, and no new route. Chinese airlines only allow item 1, that's why JD never restarted YVR-TAO, and YVR-SZX/YYC-PEK was never an option for HU.

Dominion301 Jun 7, 2021 7:22 PM

AC executives (begrudgingly) repay the $10M in bonuses after "public disappointment" - more like an outcry: https://globalnews.ca/news/7926820/a...onuses-return/

The portion that went to middle-managers, they'll get to keep it. It's not clear if VPs that aren't senior execs will be forced to repay either.

Quote:

“Unfortunately f(or us), there is now public disappointment around the actions relating to these 2020 executive compensation outcomes,”
Gotta love corporate speak.

esquire Jun 7, 2021 7:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9304403)
AC executives (begrudgingly) repay the $10M in bonuses after "public disappointment" - more like an outcry:

Guessing it had more to do with a government ultimatum than with public disappointment... since when did a CEO ever care about public opinion while cashing a cheque?

hollywoodcory Jun 7, 2021 7:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9304309)
Got approval before the pandemic and during are two different things. China was specifically looking at whether the airline served China during the month of March 2020. It took months for AC to get approval for getting back into China because it did not operate into China since Feb 2020. And AC only got it because Chinese airlines have 6x weekly service into Canada, and they may lost them if the Chinese authority completely blocked AC. So what's the chance of WS getting the approval now? Basically zero especially when AC wants the last 2 slots.

So basically all the routes into China right now falls into the following 3 categories:
1. The routes that are operated during Mar 2020
2. The routes that are operated before the pandemic (by negotiation of foreign airlines)
3. New routes that foreign airlines are allow to operate in replacement of former PVG or PEK route because of slot and restrictions (also by negotiation)

Other than that, no new airlines, and no new route. Chinese airlines only allow item 1, that's why JD never restarted YVR-TAO, and YVR-SZX/YYC-PEK was never an option for HU.

All I had heard was they got ad-hoc approval to operate cargo flights to China last spring, and had attempted pax service but was given too many conditions that made it not worth it.

I'm sure WS now doesn't care about those last 2x weekly.

nname Jun 7, 2021 8:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9304433)
All I had heard was they got ad-hoc approval to operate cargo flights to China last spring, and had attempted pax service but was given too many conditions that made it not worth it.

I'm sure WS now doesn't care about those last 2x weekly.

Yeah, there is no restriction on cargo service. But for passengers service is completely different thing. They just don't want you to bring people into the country...

SignalHillHiker Jun 8, 2021 1:34 AM

I’ll be heading East, not West, at least as a final destination lol but still glad to see this.

https://i.postimg.cc/MZfZj05V/A42-DF...3067088-A8.png

hollywoodcory Jun 9, 2021 3:16 AM

Word on the street is the feds could announce the beginning of easing international travel restrictions in the next few days. I suspect they'll start by allowing fully vaccinated Canadians and Americans in, and then slowly phase in other foreigners. Even just letting in Americans would be a good boost to the tourism industry.

June 22 is probably the date this would take affect.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/fed...deau-says.html

Dominion301 Jun 9, 2021 10:46 PM

Another article (with better grammar) about the AC execs and their bonuses: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air...rned-1.6055825

thenoflyzone Jun 10, 2021 1:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9306129)
Word on the street is the feds could announce the beginning of easing international travel restrictions in the next few days. I suspect they'll start by allowing fully vaccinated Canadians and Americans in, and then slowly phase in other foreigners. Even just letting in Americans would be a good boost to the tourism industry.

June 22 is probably the date this would take affect.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/fed...deau-says.html

More like beginning July. Hopefully the first of many steps to come.

https://airlinecouncil.ca/federal-go...ed-travellers/

Dominion301 Jun 10, 2021 3:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9307222)
More like beginning July. Hopefully the first of many steps to come.

https://airlinecouncil.ca/federal-go...ed-travellers/

No exact date yet given, but no doubt it'll be a few days after the July 1-4 long weekend in order to avoid that traditionally very busy border crossing period....especially by land.

Dominion301 Jun 10, 2021 3:27 AM

WestJet CEO Ed Sims announces he'll retire at the end of 2021 and then become a senior advisor on aviation & aerospace to Onex: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...882066970.html

hollywoodcory Jun 10, 2021 1:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9307222)
More like beginning July. Hopefully the first of many steps to come.

https://airlinecouncil.ca/federal-go...ed-travellers/

And only applies to Canadians and Permeant Residents, no foreigners yet.

Dominion301 Jun 10, 2021 2:06 PM

The Journal de Montréal has the breakdown of the 5 senior execs and what the bonuses were that they received: https://www.journaldemontreal.com/20...vation-demeure

The lowest bonus is more than most people get paid in year. Must be nice to try and pay yourself that after you've laid off 20,000 fellow employees.

esquire Jun 10, 2021 2:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9307570)
The lowest bonus is more than most people get paid in year. Must be nice to try and pay yourself that after you've laid off 20,000 fellow employees.

Is anyone surprised? This type of thing has become normalized at the CEO level... win or lose, senior corporate execs get paid no matter what.

Company loses a pile of money, get government bailouts, lay off staff, etc.... it all sucks, but nothing is stopping that C-suite occupant from getting their six figure bonus.

rbt Jun 10, 2021 2:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9307584)
Is anyone surprised? This type of thing has become normalized at the CEO level... win or lose, senior corporate execs get paid no matter what.

Company loses a pile of money, get government bailouts, lay off staff, etc.... it all sucks, but nothing is stopping that C-suite occupant from getting their six figure bonus.

Navigating the last year in a way that the company remains viable was not a trivial act. That said, they also should have understood the public optics of the situation, and that impact to the brand, and taken their bonus at a future date (with interest).


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