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G.S MTL Jul 24, 2017 2:27 PM

Explain then why is Sydney international in 2016 hit nearly 42 million pax and YYZ 44 million ? GTA has 1.4 million more than Sydney ...yet they are very close in pax traffic for both airports.....Sydney city proper has like 300,000 people ...yet Toronto has 2.6 million ...again....population has nothing to do with it ! I think what happened at yul was that lack
Of investment at ADM...with the Mirabel issue ...and other factors of
Course

ACT7 Jul 24, 2017 3:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.S MTL (Post 7873876)
Explain then why is Sydney international in 2016 hit nearly 42 million pax and YYZ 44 million ? GTA has 1.4 million more than Sydney ...yet they are very close in pax traffic for both airports.....Sydney city proper has like 300,000 people ...yet Toronto has 2.6 million ...again....population has nothing to do with it ! I think what happened at yul was that lack
Of investment at ADM...with the Mirabel issue ...and other factors of
Course

Population has something to do with it, but I agree that it's not the single biggest factor at all. Hubbing strategy has a lot more to do with it than almost anything else. Both Frankfurt and Amsterdam are significantly smaller than either Toronto or Sydney and look at the size of their airports.

You're right that YUL suffered from years - decades - of Montreal's relative decline to not only Toronto, but the rest of the country.

SkahHigh Jul 24, 2017 3:24 PM

Yet another 2-3 pages talking about Montreal lagging behind Toronto and the rest of Canada in something. We've never been there before!

WhipperSnapper Jul 24, 2017 3:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.S MTL (Post 7873876)
Explain then why is Sydney international in 2016 hit nearly 42 million pax and YYZ 44 million ? GTA has 1.4 million more than Sydney ...yet they are very close in pax traffic for both airports.....Sydney city proper has like 300,000 people ...yet Toronto has 2.6 million ...again....population has nothing to do with it ! I think what happened at yul was that lack
Of investment at ADM...with the Mirabel issue ...and other factors of
Course

So fewer Montrealers may or may not travel to other places and fewer vacationers may or may not visit Montreal. The numbers don't really tell you. Why does it really matter that much anyways? Consider Atlanta and Dubai are the envy of this discussion.

wave46 Jul 24, 2017 3:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper (Post 7873948)
So fewer Montrealers may or may not travel to other places and fewer vacationers may or may not visit Montreal. The numbers don't really tell you. Why does it really matter that much anyways? Consider Atlanta and Dubai are the envy of this discussion.

Some people get off on number superiority? :???:

I could see if there's some barrier to travel (i.e. Australian airline deregulation mentioned previously) that is hindering natural growth of travel and why a comparison might be a useful start point to analyze where improvements could be made.

Now, personally, I'm a big fan of smaller airports/quieter travel. It's why I try to fly out of smaller airports and on off days (I particularly like Wednesdays). So, avoiding a zoo of an airport like Atlanta is worth a premium to me.

youngregina Jul 24, 2017 5:23 PM

This will surely give YYC a nice boost in passengers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cage (Post 7874047)

Quote:

CALGARY, July 24, 2017 /CNW/ - WestJet today announced new non-stop weekly service between Calgary and Belize, effective November 3, 2017. The service is part of the airline's seasonal schedule for the winter of 2017-18 which includes more flights from Calgary to Vancouver, Toronto, Fort McMurray, Kelowna, Brandon, Grande Prairie, Kitchener, Los Angeles, Houston, Phoenix, Palm Springs, Cancun and Cabo San Lucas.

WestJet announces Calgary service to Belize (CNW Group/WestJet)

"WestJet will increase service from Calgary by 52 weekly flights this winter," said Brian Znotins, WestJet Vice-President, Network Planning, Alliances and Corporate Development. "As the carrier with more flights from Calgary International Airport than any other, we have designed our Calgary flight schedules to deliver 55 per cent more connecting itineraries which will help to launch new flights in future seasons and further expand our presence in YYC – a key driver in economic and employment growth in the city."

Details of WestJet's new non-stop service between Calgary and Belize:

Route
Frequency
Departing
Arriving
Effective
Calgary – Belize
Weekly
9:15 a.m.
2:51 p.m.
Nov. 3, 2017
Belize – Calgary
Weekly
3:45 p.m.
10:06 p.m.
Nov. 3, 2017
One-way fares are available starting from:

Departing
Arriving
Air transportation charges (ATC)
Taxes,
fees and
charges
Total one-way
price from
Base fare from
Other ATC
Calgary
Belize
$214
$7.50
$57.41
$278.91 CAD*
*Book by July 31, 2017 (11:59 p.m. MT). Some restrictions apply. For full details please visit westjet.com/winterschedule.


WestJet will also increase service on the following routes from Calgary:

Calgary-Vancouver, from 90 to 97 times weekly (15 times each business day), more than any other carrier.
Calgary-Toronto, from 58 to 68 times weekly, (10 times each business day), more than any other carrier.
Calgary-Fort McMurray, from four to five times each business day.
Calgary-Kelowna, from six to seven times each business day, more than any other carrier.
Calgary-Brandon, from 10 to 12 times weekly.
Calgary-Grande Prairie, 19 to 26 times weekly.
Calgary-Kitchener, from five to seven times weekly.
Calgary-Los Angeles, from 11 to 14 times weekly.
Calgary-Phoenix, from 19 to 20 times weekly.
Calgary-Palm Springs, from 18 to 20 times weekly.
Calgary-Cancun, from 14 to 16 times weekly.
Calgary-Cabo San Lucas, from seven to eight times weekly.
"The considerable increase in frequencies out of YYC, combined with the introduction of WestJet's Calgary to Belize route is exciting news for Albertans," said Bob Sartor, President and CEO for The Calgary Airport Authority. "Enhancing the WestJet network out of their home base is a strategic investment to advance one of their largest hubs, and provide YYC passengers with more options to connect out of Calgary."

WestJet also announced the addition of dozens of new flights across Canada. The additional flights deliver optimized service for both the business and leisure traveller and give Canadians greater connectivity into and out of WestJet hubs in Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto, providing more flight frequency between key routes, more convenient schedules and greater access from regional airports to Canada, the U.S., Mexico, Caribbean and the U.K.

"Bolstering our hub cities – the core of the WestJet network – is typical of the kind of difference we want to make for Canadian travellers," said Brian Znotins. "The addition of more than 125 flights into and out of Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto creates one-stop connections, faster travel times and better scheduling to address the demand Canadians have for travel that is convenient, stress-free and low cost."

Highlights of WestJet's 2017-18 winter schedule include:

New non-stop weekly service from Edmonton and Vancouver to Huatulco.
Additional flights from Vancouver to a number of domestic and international destinations including Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Fort St. John, Calgary, Edmonton and Fort McMurray.
Extension of existing summer service increases through the winter, including three daily flights between Toronto and Moncton, six daily flights between Edmonton and Kelowna, six weekly flights between Edmonton and Ottawa, and 12 weekly flights between Calgary and Houston.
Service from both Regina and Abbotsford to Puerto Vallarta will increase by one weekly flight for a total of twice weekly.
Additional flights from Toronto to a number of sun destinations including Antigua, Cancun, Fort Lauderdale, Liberia, Orlando, Nassau, Puerto Plata, Punta Cana and Montego Bay.
Additional flights from Toronto to a number of Canadian destinations including Winnipeg and Kelowna.
An increase of 10 new weekly flights between Toronto and Ottawa for a total of 13 times daily.
An increase of nine weekly flights between Toronto and Montreal for a total of 14 times daily.
An increase of eight weekly flights between Toronto and Vancouver for a total of eight times daily.

Canadian74 Jul 24, 2017 5:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.S MTL (Post 7873876)
Explain then why is Sydney international in 2016 hit nearly 42 million pax and YYZ 44 million ? GTA has 1.4 million more than Sydney ...yet they are very close in pax traffic for both airports.....Sydney city proper has like 300,000 people ...yet Toronto has 2.6 million ...again....population has nothing to do with it ! I think what happened at yul was that lack
Of investment at ADM...with the Mirabel issue ...and other factors of
Course


Toronto also has YTZ, which handles around 2.7M I think...... (was 2.7M last year and growing)

YYZ is growing rapidly, will likely reach 47-48M this year

Combined, it is easily 50M+ for the 2 Toronto airports this year

240glt Jul 24, 2017 6:06 PM

Great news about that Calgary to Belise flight. Were thinking about going there this winter, this may have sealed the deal

Denscity Jul 24, 2017 6:40 PM

Lets just compare Montreal with similar sized cities from around the world and see if it punches below or above its weight in passengers both international and domestic.

begratto Jul 24, 2017 7:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 7874190)
Lets just compare Montreal with similar sized cities from around the world and see if it punches below or above its weight in passengers both international and domestic.

2 random examples :

Izmir, in Turkey, has roughly the same population as Montreal : 4.2M
Izmir's airport had 12M passengers in 2016

Hamburg, Germany, is a bit bigger than Montreal, but is in a similar situation as Montreal. Many potential destinations can be reached by car / train, bigger cities nearby which suck a part of the traffic. And its passenger count is very similar to Montreal's : 16.1M passengers in 2016

wave46 Jul 24, 2017 8:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 7874190)
Lets just compare Montreal with similar sized cities from around the world and see if it punches below or above its weight in passengers both international and domestic.

I'll use 2016 numbers for comparison, on the 2 cities that were previously mentioned:

Montreal: 16.6m (6.4m domestic, 10.2m international)
Melbourne: 33.7m (24.4m domestic, 9.3m international)

It would seem that what largely has been discussed previously holds - a large proportion of Melbourne's passenger advantage over Montreal is Australian domestic passengers. In fact, the MEL-SYD route accounts for 8.6m passengers per year.

Some theories have been floated why the two cities airports have such different domestic passenger numbers. I suspect it is a combination of several factors:
1. Montreal is a far more accessible by road from other major cities (both Canadian and US).
2. It is more likely that Montrealers and Quebecers have family within province than outside of it.
3. Those from Quebec have a tendency to travel to destinations that are warmer in the winter (like most Canadians) or places that they share a common language with (France/Belgium) during the summer.

I'm not really seeing any huge external barriers to travel that discriminates against Montreal. Mostly, I think it's a case of geographical location and culture that accounts for the different travel patters.

I reiterate my comment from before though: Who cares about passenger numbers aside from basically what that volume helps support? All I care about at an airport (aside from the amenities that I use when I'm there) is how conveniently it connects me to where I want to go. Whether said airport has more passenger volume than another airport in a city a similar size halfway across the world is irrelevant to me.

kwoldtimer Jul 24, 2017 9:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 240glt (Post 7874142)
Great news about that Calgary to Belise flight. Were thinking about going there this winter, this may have sealed the deal

It's a nice addition, but I'm surprised - I wouldn't have thought the numbers would be there. Maybe, if you build it, they do come!

MalcolmTucker Jul 24, 2017 9:12 PM

[del]

240glt Jul 24, 2017 9:21 PM

^ yeah likely, like those flight & hotel deals they have for a lot of carribean countries

thenoflyzone Jul 24, 2017 9:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngregina (Post 7874089)
This will surely give YYC a nice boost in passengers.

It's not all good news from WS, unfortunately. Those planes had to come from somewhere.

YUL-FLL
MCO-YUL/YVR/YHZ/YOW/YWG
YOW-RSW/TPA
LAS-YWG

All of these routes get pretty much cut in half in terms of frequency.

zahav Jul 25, 2017 7:42 AM

Interesting that Westjet made such a big point of emphasizing the 3 hubs in today's release. In the old days they didn't even talk much about hubbing. Growing up I see :)

WestJet also announced the addition of dozens of new flights across Canada. The additional flights deliver optimized service for both the business and leisure traveller and give Canadians greater connectivity into and out of WestJet hubs in Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto, providing more flight frequency between key routes, more convenient schedules and greater access from smaller airports into the wider WestJet network.

"Bolstering our hub cities – the core of the WestJet network – is typical of the kind of difference we want to make for Canadian travellers," said Brian Znotins. "The addition of more than 125 flights into and out of Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto creates one-stop connections, faster travel times and better scheduling to address the demand Canadians have for travel that is convenient, stress-free and low cost."

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1250

speedog Jul 25, 2017 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.S MTL (Post 7873876)
Explain then why is Sydney international in 2016 hit nearly 42 million pax and YYZ 44 million ? GTA has 1.4 million more than Sydney ...yet they are very close in pax traffic for both airports.....Sydney city proper has like 300,000 people ...yet Toronto has 2.6 million ...again....population has nothing to do with it ! I think what happened at yul was that lack
Of investment at ADM...with the Mirabel issue ...and other factors of
Course

London, England city proper is about 7-8,000 people - they must be a superstar then, eh?

SkahHigh Jul 25, 2017 1:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedog (Post 7874926)
London, England city proper is about 7-8,000 people - they must be a superstar then, eh?

Lol.

As you pointed out, city population isn't what matters, it's the metro population that does.

Like many said, PAX numbers don't always reveal much about a city. Or else, Atlanta would be the most cosmopolitan city in the world.

What matters are the international numbers, because that's what tells you how connected you are to the world economy and the rest of the world in general. An airport that has 15 domestic flights is much less convenient than the airport that has 5 domestic and 5 international flights.

So yes, YUL does lag behind a little, but I bet (don't have the numbers) it's top 15 in the continent for international passengers while being the 19th largest metro. And that's what counts, really.

G.S MTL Jul 25, 2017 2:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7874964)
Lol.

As you pointed out, city population isn't what matters, it's the metro population that does.

Like many said, PAX numbers don't always reveal much about a city. Or else, Atlanta would be the most cosmopolitan city in the world.

What matters are the international numbers, because that's what tells you how connected you are to the world economy and the rest of the world in general. An airport that has 15 domestic flights is much less convenient than the airport that has 5 domestic and 5 international flights.

So yes, YUL does lag behind a little, but I bet (don't have the numbers) it's top 15 in the continent for international passengers while being the 19th largest metro. And that's what counts, really.

YUL I believe in 2016 was 11th busiest Airport in North America in terms of International passengers (including transborder of course)

csbvan Jul 25, 2017 3:20 PM

Quote:

How Vancouver became China's aviation hub to the West

(CNN) — There are few pop culture icons better known on both sides of the Pacific than Jackie Chan. The action-movie star's work across US and Asian film made him an obvious choice to represent Hong Kong Airlines and fly on the airline's first flight to North America.
The Hong Kong-based airline -- as its name suggests -- had its maiden flight to YVR Vancouver International Airport on June 30, its first destination outside of Asia and Australia.
The carrier's flight is just the latest inaugural flight to YVR from mainland China and Hong Kong. Unlikely as it seems, Vancouver is the epicenter for the international expansion of Asian carriers...

http://edition.cnn.com/travel/articl...ned1138AMStory


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