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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

SDfan Mar 16, 2016 9:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IconRPCV (Post 7372226)
It looks like an Atlantis Resort in the Bahamas.

Nailed it.

bmfarley Mar 17, 2016 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenchiku desu (Post 7372440)
I agree, yuck!!!! So dreary -- compounded by the fact that there will be three blocks it. Similar vocabulary as the cheesy Metro HQ in Los Angeles -- but a lot more of it -- wider, squatter and more expansive. Acres of the same, tired facade and the same, tired, 1980's, beige POMO fenestration to look at every day.

Looking at the illustrations, you can almost feel the poor renderer giving his or her all to make this thing look halfway decent.

San Diego deserves a lot better -- especially at this prominent location.

I work at LA Metro and I can tell you that most of the folks there love the building's exterior (the inside is a different matter).

I also use to work in the EV. Nice area. But I can tell you, none of the plans for a development at the bus yard will move forward without:
1. A suitable alternative location for the uard, and
2. Someone else's money to pay for it (land and improvements).

Please update me on this, if there is one.

JerellO Mar 17, 2016 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenchiku desu (Post 7372440)
I agree, yuck!!!! So dreary -- compounded by the fact that there will be three blocks it. Similar vocabulary as the cheesy Metro HQ in Los Angeles -- but a lot more of it -- wider, squatter and more expansive. Acres of the same, tired facade and the same, tired, 1980's, beige POMO fenestration to look at every day.

Looking at the illustrations, you can almost feel the poor renderer giving his or her all to make this thing look halfway decent.

San Diego deserves a lot better -- especially at this prominent location.

Would you rather have another Bosa looking development??? We have too many of those... LA's Metro HQ looks great.. Have you ever been there??? What I love about LA is they have so many architectural styles. I think change is good and this stand out from looking like every other buildings in DTSD.

S.DviaPhilly Mar 18, 2016 7:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerellO (Post 7373779)
Would you rather have another Bosa looking development??? We have too many of those... LA's Metro HQ looks great.. Have you ever been there??? What I love about LA is they have so many architectural styles. I think change is good and this stand out from looking like every other buildings in DTSD.

I think Bosa buildings transform our skyline - Pacific Gate looks like a piece of art and will be a game-changer. Manchester the same - We should appreciate the architecture high-rises going up in our city!

Bikemike Mar 18, 2016 10:40 AM

Damn podium set backs. Why can't San Diego do like Vancouver, NY, HK, and a host of other coastal cities do? Build right to the water or road.

Aside from the podiums the designs aren't that bad. Could be a lot worse.

The Flying Dutchman Mar 18, 2016 2:49 PM

Broadstone Maker's Quarter
 
Demo began today on Broadstone Maker's Quarter: The old Goodwill is kaput.
16th and Broadway

http://cdn.sandiegouniontrib.com/img...8561935b88c24b

JerellO Mar 19, 2016 5:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.DviaPhilly (Post 7375469)
I think Bosa buildings transform our skyline - Pacific Gate looks like a piece of art and will be a game-changer. Manchester the same - We should appreciate the architecture high-rises going up in our city!

I love our skyline too and Bosa has built great buildings... But do we really want our skyline to look like Vancouver?? Saturated with blue glass towers all over the place?? It doesn't look good IMO. At least the Manchester towers add something different than the usual and has that jagged zigzag Art Deco look which San Diego lacks.

nezbn22 Mar 20, 2016 6:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s.dviaphilly (Post 7375469)
i think bosa buildings transform our skyline - pacific gate looks like a piece of art and will be a game-changer. Manchester the same - we should appreciate the architecture high-rises going up in our city!

+1!

NYC2ATX Mar 20, 2016 6:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerellO (Post 7376810)
I love our skyline too and Bosa has built great buildings... But do we really want our skyline to look like Vancouver?? Saturated with blue glass towers all over the place?? It doesn't look good IMO. At least the Manchester towers add something different than the usual and has that jagged zigzag Art Deco look which San Diego lacks.

RIGHT! Count me amongst the people that thinks this development looks fantastic. San Diego always had a great skyline, but the prevalence of glassitecture in the slew of recent projects that have gone up run the risk of drowning out the distinctive towers and making the skyline ever blander. IMHO, buildings like Emerald Plaza, One America, and the Grand Hyatt remain the hallmarks of the skyline, and they were all built in the '90s.

This project injects a new style of design into a very prominent place in the skyline, takes some cues from the deco of the County Admin Building, and gives San Diego the world-class waterfront it deserves. Though the materials used will absolutely make or break it, I have no other qualms. BUILD IT. :cheers:

The Flying Dutchman Mar 20, 2016 9:23 PM

I too can appreciate the effort to match the architectural styles of all the buildings directly on the Embarcadero. It lends a 'civic' feel to it, which originates from the County Administration Center, of course.

1919 Pacific Highway (upcoming construction) was designed to match the style of the Admin building. I believe the re-do of the Old Police Headquarters was as well. Now with the Manchester Pacific Gateway on the line, it will fill in the gap, so to speak. 'Gateway' obviously matches the Manchester Hyatt, which I'm sure is no coincidence.

Who knows, maybe the redevelopment of Seaport Village will break this trend, to match the background of the glass towers in the background. I'm actually really interested to see what the CCC and the Port of San Diego will approve for that parcel, due to be announced this year.

SDCAL Mar 21, 2016 3:33 AM

Manchester "Gateway"
 
I'll give my take on the Manchester Plan, hopefully I won't be accused of being a NIMBY because I'm not drooling over it :) (I say that in jest, I do enjoy discussing development with everyone here even those I have had heated disagreements with).

First off, I wouldn't call them Machester's "towers" as I see in some posts; they don't really strike me as towers, but more as mid-rise office buildings.

I don't think the project is hideous by any means, but I think they could have done way, way better for that iconic site. I do agree with the criticism of the large flag and the skybridge - both seem distracting. My guess is the flag is there because the west coast Navy HQ will be located there. The base of the flag seems really large and reminds me of a memorial, would have been nicer if the flag was scaled down and more of the area used for the base was dedicated to the public park. Maybe they will tweak it as it moves forward.

As far as new buildings trying to retroactively take-on an art deco feel, is there any precedence of this on any major projects in other cities like NYC or LA? Usually projects try to add historical styles like this to restorations of existing structures like they did with the Old Police HQ (a project I like very much), but I've never heard of trying to do this with a building from scratch. In any case, it could, work I suppose, I just wish they had done a different color. The prolific brown here seems to be monotonous and make this project look very bland.

Finally, looking at the renderings and descriptions of the project, it looks like the vision for these blocks is to construct an area of very high-end shopping with stores one would usually encounter on the Strip in Vegas, 5th avenue in NYC, or Rodeo Drive in LA. The video they have on the project's website has all these images of San Diego and the proposed site, then sprinkled in are shots of Rodeo Drive (the video doesn't say it's Rodeo Drive and implies it's in SD or part of this project, but anyone whose been to Rodeo Drive can recognize the shots). The description they give on the site:

Manchester Pacific Gateway will become home to the highest-tier luxury retail brands, and a most-desired destination for local, national and international consumers. The San Diego region itself, with its rich and expanding international tourism, booming convention center, renowned weather and a community that’s eager for luxury shopping and dining, is primed to support the most coveted of retailers and restaurants. The design features accessibility and elegance, with open parks, cultural spaces and entertainment venues overlooking the most beautiful waterfront in the United States. The ambience is open, inviting and buzzing with excitement. It is destined to become a vibrant, dynamic luxury zone against the backdrop of the San Diego skyline and the beauty of the San Diego Bay.

It's interesting they mention "international customers". I wonder if there is market research showing International Investment is poised to increase in downtown SD. The new Bosa tower will have condos well over $1 million, usually these types of high-end structures have a good percentage of international investors in Miami, NYC, etc. Maybe the "vision" is that this whole area along the harbor will be a very high end shopping/entertainment area? I wonder if we are ready to sustain this? I was in Chicago last weekend and was walking along Michigan Avenue, "The Magnificent Mile", and it's full of these very high end flagship stores (out of my price range!) like Gucci, Chanel, etc. as well as luxury hotels and condo buildings. It's a tourist mecca, I wonder if Manchester's vision is to create a scaled-down version of this in San Diego?

http://www.manchesterpacificgateway....etail_img1.jpg

IconRPCV Mar 21, 2016 4:06 AM

The previous rendering was better
 
The previous Manchester renderings had cool filagree glass top adornments, they looked more art deco and classic, the new renderings look post mordent and cheap, IMO.

Streamliner Mar 21, 2016 2:55 PM

@ SDCAL: Good points about the Manchester project. Though I would argue that there's a precedence for neo-traditional architecture in New York at least, see 220 Central Park South and 30 Park Place as examples. Even 111 West 57th Street could be seen as a contemporary take on early 20th Century architecture. But it all comes down to the materials, and I'm not convinced that they, or the colors like you mentioned, will look good.

On the subject of international investment, a Chinese firm just bought out the Hotel Del Coronado last week so there certainly is an interest growing here:

Chinese insurer acquiring Hotel del Coronado as part of $6.5B deal
San Diego Union-Tribune
March 12, 2016
Link to Article

Quote:

The Loews Santa Monica Beach and the historic Hotel del Coronado near San Diego are being acquired by a Chinese insurance company as part of a $6.5-billion deal.

Blackstone Group, a New York private equity firm, has agreed to sell its Strategic Hotels & Resorts Inc., which owns 16 luxury properties, to Anbang Insurance Group, a person familiar with the transaction said Saturday.
...
Beijing-based Anbang has been investing in luxury U.S. hotel properties, including its acquisition last year of the Waldorf Astoria in New York for $1.95 billion from Hilton Worldwide Holdings.

Crackertastik Mar 21, 2016 4:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streamliner (Post 7378217)
@ SDCAL: Good points about the Manchester project. Though I would argue that there's a precedence for neo-traditional architecture in New York at least, see 220 Central Park South and 30 Park Place as examples. Even 111 West 57th Street could be seen as a contemporary take on early 20th Century architecture. But it all comes down to the materials, and I'm not convinced that they, or the colors like you mentioned, will look good.

On the subject of international investment, a Chinese firm just bought out the Hotel Del Coronado last week so there certainly is an interest growing here:

Chinese insurer acquiring Hotel del Coronado as part of $6.5B deal
San Diego Union-Tribune
March 12, 2016
Link to Article

Sadly nothing to do specifically with San Diego. Angbang purchased Strategic Hotels and the entire portfolio. They also put in a late bid for Starwood, trying swoop and acquire the company away from Marriott.

The Del is but one of many many many hotels in this deal, and this doesn't say much of anything about interest in San Diego from foreign investment.

mello Mar 21, 2016 8:53 PM

There must be some people in the real estate and development industry actively courting Asian investment in SD. I'm frankly very surprised that Chula Vista never shopped their hundred place acres of blank slate on the bayfront that is approved for 300 foot towers. Also would be nice if Westfield would sell Horton Plaza to the Chinese and they could tear it down and do something like Brickell Center in Miami.

nezbn22 Mar 22, 2016 4:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crackertastik (Post 7378319)
Sadly nothing to do specifically with San Diego. Angbang purchased Strategic Hotels and the entire portfolio. They also put in a late bid for Starwood, trying swoop and acquire the company away from Marriott.

The Del is but one of many many many hotels in this deal, and this doesn't say much of anything about interest in San Diego from foreign investment.

I know this is just one project, but the Intercontinental going in just north of Manchester's site is being funded with Chinese money. For what that's worth...

bobbyv Mar 22, 2016 9:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenchiku desu (Post 7372440)
I agree, yuck!!!! So dreary -- compounded by the fact that there will be three blocks it. Similar vocabulary as the cheesy Metro HQ in Los Angeles -- but a lot more of it -- wider, squatter and more expansive. Acres of the same, tired facade and the same, tired, 1980's, beige POMO fenestration to look at every day.

Looking at the illustrations, you can almost feel the poor renderer giving his or her all to make this thing look halfway decent.

San Diego deserves a lot better -- especially at this prominent location.

I actually think you guys will be lucky if ends up looking like the metro HQ:

https://goo.gl/maps/a9XfA56mwnR2

Sadly I feel it will end up looking more akin to this:
https://goo.gl/maps/891GECYkB712

Nerv Mar 23, 2016 3:00 AM

I seriously doubt it looks like either of those... :koko:



Based on the renderings I'd say it's closer to a more Art Deco version of this.


https://cdn3.gbot.me/photos/io/PW/13...18-500x375.jpg


I think it should look fine unless they build something that looks nothing like the renderings.

BrandonJXN Mar 23, 2016 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streamliner (Post 7370773)
http://www.manchesterpacificgateway....gs/slider2.jpg

http://www.manchesterpacificgateway....gs/slider1.jpg

http://www.manchesterpacificgateway....gs/slider6.jpg

http://www.manchesterpacificgateway....gs/slider4.jpg

Let's all argue about flagpoles again!

Seriously though, I'm not sure if I'm a huge fan of some design elements. The new skybridge makes those two buildings look like a single, stubby building. And the flagpole does a very good job of messing with the scale of the tallest building in the complex. I'd be a lot happier if they removed those two elements.

Yikes. This isn't ugly but it's too much. It reminds me of an office complex in suburban Dallas proposed in 1987.

Streamliner Mar 23, 2016 4:46 PM

Interest high in new, 'iconic' Seaport Village
San Diego Union-Tribune
Philip Molnar
March 21, 2016
Link to article

Quote:

So far, 222 people have downloaded the request for proposal from the San Diego Unified Port District to retool the 13.2-acre waterfront site, port officials said.

Developers have until May 2 to turn in their visions for the site. Most interviewed Monday by the San Diego Union-Tribune were coy about specific ideas as they sat by side-by-side with competitors on a Hornblower antique yacht chartered by the port.

As the boat glided along San Diego Bay under an overcast morning sky, Port of San Diego business development manager Penny Maus expressed the port’s ambition.

“We see this as a site that can identify San Diego Bay,” she said. “. . . We think this site could be the perfect location for that, through an iconic structure or architectural components.”

Maus said examples of iconic structures were the Sydney Opera House in Australia and the Space Needle in Seattle.

...
Other companies that signed in at the boat event were Cushman & Wakefield, Group Delta, CH2M, Carrier Johnson + Culture, AEG Entertainment Group, Brummitt Energy Associates, Allegis Development Services, C & S Companies, Harley Ellis Devereaux, Leighton Group, KTU+A, Delawie, Gensler and Kilroy Realty Corp.
I'm looking forward to seeing the ideas they have planned. Assuming they go big on the Seaport Village site, I hope they do it well. There are only a few more opportunities to enhance the postcard face of San Diego


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