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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

eburress Aug 14, 2012 3:17 PM

Oh wow - that new version of Lane Field isn't pretty. On the bright side it is reminiscent of Bayside (which I think is a very nice looking tower), so assuming it gets built at all, maybe it won't end up quite so bad.

N830MH Aug 14, 2012 11:26 PM

Why they didn't start a taller building? Because it was height restrictions. Why can't have more than 30 or 40 floor?

Streamliner Aug 15, 2012 12:50 AM

In other downtown news, the Trolley is rearranging their lines next month. The green line will end at 12th and Imperial via Gaslamp, Convention Center, and Santa Fe Depot. The Orange line will terminate at Santa Fe Depot, and the Blue line will begin at America Plaza before heading to Tijuana.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/...routes-coming/

Graphic:
http://media.utsandiego.com/news/doc...m12trolley.jpg

I think this is great, I love the low floor trains, and I hate that there was no direct Trolley to the Gaslamp area from Old Town/Mission Valley except for special events.

mello Aug 15, 2012 5:38 AM

It is funny in that article about the Lane Field Hotel they said "the designers wanted a tall and thin design" or something to that effect. Since when is a 14 floor structure downtown "tall". I really think something with a bit more height and class should go in that location. I hope that rendering is not at all what the structure will look like. I find it hard to believe that the investors on this project don't think a nice 4 Star Hotel wouldn't work on this site. Or even an urban luxury brand like St. Regis or Ritz Carlton.

Do you guys think a luxury brand would work downtown on the waterfront right now?

Derek Aug 15, 2012 5:48 AM

Yes. San Diego desperately needs a big name luxury hotel.

SDfan Aug 15, 2012 6:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 5798984)
Do you guys think a luxury brand would work downtown on the waterfront right now?

No, downtown isn't a luxury scene. If we get any luxury brands its going to be in La Jolla, or Rancho Santa Fe. Just look at the retail downtown, it can barely support Coach. The dining and clubbing is nicer, but luxury brands need more than just nightlife. They need higher property values, and wealthier consumers. We won't get those brands until we get a mixture of a bigger corporate presence (aka, more HQ/class-a office lease holders), more international travelers (they spend more), and more luxury attractions (the zoo, seaworld, and PB aren't going to cut it with the upper echelons, -which is why middle class SoCali's and Arizonies will be our main market targets for now).

SDfan Aug 15, 2012 6:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N830MH (Post 5798645)
Why they didn't start a taller building? Because it was height restrictions. Why can't have more than 30 or 40 floor?

I actually don't mind the shorter buildings on the bayfront, we already have a nice row from Bayside to Electra (soon to be extended down thanks to Bosa, and the Broadway complex). As long as they're thin, and well designed (this proposal looks not so nice, but it seems the developers have been told this by the committee, so hopefully they'll get cracking on it), it should be fine.

I think having a step is a nice way of layering the skyline (which is increasingly plateauing...).

SDCAL Aug 15, 2012 7:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 5799015)
No, downtown isn't a luxury scene. If we get any luxury brands its going to be in La Jolla, or Rancho Santa Fe. Just look at the retail downtown, it can barely support Coach. The dining and clubbing is nicer, but luxury brands need more than just nightlife. They need higher property values, and wealthier consumers. We won't get those brands until we get a mixture of a bigger corporate presence (aka, more HQ/class-a office lease holders), more international travelers (they spend more), and more luxury attractions (the zoo, seaworld, and PB aren't going to cut it with the upper echelons, -which is why middle class SoCali's and Arizonies will be our main market targets for now).

As someone who lives downtown, I couln't disagree with you more. Something like a JW Marriott or Mandarin Oriental would do fine with a bay view location after the embarcadero project is complete and that area becomes landscaped and visitor friendly. I encounter lots of international travelers downtown, and we seem to be headed in the right direction with the direct Japan airways flight in December. I'm not saying downtown San Diego should be a Mecca for super-luxury hotels, but to say one big high-end name can't make it on a prime bay-front location is selling dt sd short IMO. You mention Rancho Santa Fe, who the hell goes there for vacation? Isn't that primarily an exclusive residential enclave? I would see bay front downtown as a better prospect than rsf for a large luxury hotel.

The condo market downtown did sink pretty low and remains bleak for the mot part, but the one area that seems to have retained high values are the bay font luxury units like @ the grand at Santa Fe place towers. The price for prime waterfront condos downtown is comparable to luxury conos in major urban areas that support luxury hotels.

The current lane field plan calls for a Hilton garden inn and a Homewood Suites. I just stayed at a Hilton garden inn in the bay area on a business trip and it was a huge step down fom even Embassy Suites. To suggest these two low-grade business park type hotels are appropriate for some of the most expensive undeveloped waterfront real estate on the West Coast is absurd and an insult to this city.

SDfan Aug 15, 2012 9:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 5799054)
As someone who lives downtown, I couln't disagree with you more. Something like a JW Marriott or Mandarin Oriental would do fine with a bay view location after the embarcadero project is complete and that area becomes landscaped and visitor friendly. I encounter lots of international travelers downtown, and we seem to be headed in the right direction with the direct Japan airways flight in December. I'm not saying downtown San Diego should be a Mecca for super-luxury hotels, but to say one big high-end name can't make it on a prime bay-front location is selling dt sd short IMO. You mention Rancho Santa Fe, who the hell goes there for vacation? Isn't that primarily an exclusive residential enclave? I would see bay front downtown as a better prospect than rsf for a large luxury hotel.

The condo market downtown did sink pretty low and remains bleak for the mot part, but the one area that seems to have retained high values are the bay font luxury units like @ the grand at Santa Fe place towers. The price for prime waterfront condos downtown is comparable to luxury conos in major urban areas that support luxury hotels.

The current lane field plan calls for a Hilton garden inn and a Homewood Suites. I just stayed at a Hilton garden inn in the bay area on a business trip and it was a huge step down fom even Embassy Suites. To suggest these two low-grade business park type hotels are appropriate for some of the most expensive undeveloped waterfront real estate on the West Coast is absurd and an insult to this city.

Notice that everything you just said in your first paragraph (upgrades to downtown infrastructure, more international flights) are remedies to what I said needs to happen before we get anything more than another holiday inn. hahaha. So, nice try but you essentially proved my point. Downtown, currently, is not ready for the big time spenders.

And yes, Bosa's towers along the bayfront are expensive, and desirable places for second home buyers and retirees. But I don't see how that translates to a Ritz Carlton or a Mandarin Oriental being put up. The concept of "if you build it, they will come" cannot be applied to hoteliers, you need to have a viable attraction. And while San Diego has plenty of nice, middle income, and some nice high income locales, most of those either won't attract large swaths of high clientele (we have no times square, iconic structures, world famous "need to see before you die" places) or they aren't downtown (aka La Jolla, Coronado, beaches, RSF, RB, Torrey Pines). Why else do you think our most high end hoteliers are outside of downtown?

And I'm not selling the city short, I'm just looking at reality. Downtown San Diego is not a developed luxury market, and like I said, its going to need to see some key, fundamental changes to take place at the micro level before it can start attracting 5 star hotels, and big spending fat cats.

And keep in mind, we do quite well with the middle/upper middle market. It's done wonders for the economy, but don't be surprised when a Hilton is being built on the bayfront. Downtown isn't Manhattan, South Beach, or even La Jolla. It's nice, pleasant, pricey... but not 5 Star. That will take a decade or two more of maturity in the markets, and, again, changes to the dynamics of the area.

HurricaneHugo Aug 15, 2012 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streamliner (Post 5798730)
In other downtown news, the Trolley is rearranging their lines next month. The green line will end at 12th and Imperial via Gaslamp, Convention Center, and Santa Fe Depot. The Orange line will terminate at Santa Fe Depot, and the Blue line will begin at America Plaza before heading to Tijuana.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/...routes-coming/

Graphic:
http://media.utsandiego.com/news/doc...m12trolley.jpg

I think this is great, I love the low floor trains, and I hate that there was no direct Trolley to the Gaslamp area from Old Town/Mission Valley except for special events.

What's the plan for when the Midcoast expansion is complete?

Streamliner Aug 15, 2012 2:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo (Post 5799087)
What's the plan for when the Midcoast expansion is complete?

Good question, I haven't heard anything on that in a long while. I always thought it'd be an extension of the Blue Line, but maybe it'll get its own color.

psychotron Aug 15, 2012 9:52 PM

I'm pretty meh on the latest Lane Field renders. I too want something iconic, something with presence. This is prime real estate, SD's front door. I feel like there's somewhat of an "at least we're getting something" mentality within the former and current remnants of SDCC. Dream big, you only get one shot at it!

BTW, according to SANDAG, the midcoast extension will just extend the blue line.

http://www.sandag.org/uploads/projec..._250_14284.jpg

SDCAL Aug 16, 2012 1:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 5799070)
Notice that everything you just said in your first paragraph (upgrades to downtown infrastructure, more international flights) are remedies to what I said needs to happen before we get anything more than another holiday inn. hahaha. So, nice try but you essentially proved my point. Downtown, currently, is not ready for the big time spenders.

And yes, Bosa's towers along the bayfront are expensive, and desirable places for second home buyers and retirees. But I don't see how that translates to a Ritz Carlton or a Mandarin Oriental being put up. The concept of "if you build it, they will come" cannot be applied to hoteliers, you need to have a viable attraction. And while San Diego has plenty of nice, middle income, and some nice high income locales, most of those either won't attract large swaths of high clientele (we have no times square, iconic structures, world famous "need to see before you die" places) or they aren't downtown (aka La Jolla, Coronado, beaches, RSF, RB, Torrey Pines). Why else do you think our most high end hoteliers are outside of downtown?

And I'm not selling the city short, I'm just looking at reality. Downtown San Diego is not a developed luxury market, and like I said, its going to need to see some key, fundamental changes to take place at the micro level before it can start attracting 5 star hotels, and big spending fat cats.

And keep in mind, we do quite well with the middle/upper middle market. It's done wonders for the economy, but don't be surprised when a Hilton is being built on the bayfront. Downtown isn't Manhattan, South Beach, or even La Jolla. It's nice, pleasant, pricey... but not 5 Star. That will take a decade or two more of maturity in the markets, and, again, changes to the dynamics of the area.

I'm talking in the context of Lane Field which, by the time it's complete, the embarcadero infrastructure will be largely in place.

I still think despite SD not being 5 star overall, the market is big enough for one 5 star downtown.

Can we at least agree wasting Lane Field's prime locale on a "Homewood Suites" is just ghetto and absurd?

SDfan Aug 17, 2012 8:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 5799984)
I'm talking in the context of Lane Field which, by the time it's complete, the embarcadero infrastructure will be largely in place.

I still think despite SD not being 5 star overall, the market is big enough for one 5 star downtown.

Can we at least agree wasting Lane Field's prime locale on a "Homewood Suites" is just ghetto and absurd?

I can agree that its embarrassing, yes, haha.

OneMetropolis Aug 22, 2012 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 5801571)
I can agree that its embarrassing, yes, haha.

Typical of San Diego

HurricaneHugo Aug 26, 2012 3:27 AM

If it only was it's original height...

http://i46.tinypic.com/xbagaw.jpg

mello Aug 26, 2012 7:00 PM

Yeah it does look pretty stumpy. If the Navy Broadway Complex ever gets built that building would be overshadowed anyhow... I guess they just figured they didn't need 26 floors full of courtrooms and offices, that is a lot of bureaucrats to pack in to one place so I guess 16 floors does the trick.

Dale Aug 26, 2012 8:57 PM

For a little perspective: I was in San Diego, in 1990, and back THEN the buzz was how plans were AT LONG LAST coming together for Lane Field.

Lipani Aug 26, 2012 10:28 PM

^ Not surprising. This is the same city that turned down Miramar for a dollar.

SDfan Aug 30, 2012 5:50 PM

Looks like Bosa is going to start building soon:

Quote:

Bosa condo tower to begin construction next year
By Jennifer Chung Klam, Special to The Daily Transcript
Thursday, August 30, 2012

A 41-story, 232-unit residential tower planned by Bosa Development at the southeast corner of Broadway and Pacific Highway has gotten the approval of the Centre City Development Corp. The $250 million project is tentatively scheduled to start next year, with completion in 2016. The starting price tag will be $750,000 per unit.
http://www.sddt.com/news/article.cfm...ext+year&r=577


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