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zahav May 9, 2022 6:16 AM

I'm not sure about other cities, but Air Canada has a huge radio campaign in Vancouver (I've hear the ad so many times), all about Europe (ie. promoting European destinations). I assume it is the same ad they would be using on radio in other cities, specifcally eastern ones. It's hilrious being here in Vancouver, because none of the destinations they mention in the ad are served from YVR lol, they (Athens, Paris, Nice, Barecelone, Rome, Vienna). But obviously they are really pushing connections in YYZ and YUL. The only 4 European destinations that AC serves from YVR (DUB, LHR, FRA, and ZRH) were not in the ad. It's like they did it on purpose lol jk.

They are really pushing Europe hard right now. It obviously is a pillar of strength while other markets are still quite depressed.

Denscity May 9, 2022 6:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9620158)
I'm not sure about other cities, but Air Canada has a huge radio campaign in Vancouver (I've hear the ad so many times), all about Europe (ie. promoting European destinations). I assume it is the same ad they would be using on radio in other cities, specifcally eastern ones. It's hilrious being here in Vancouver, because none of the destinations they mention in the ad are served from YVR lol, they (Athens, Paris, Nice, Barecelone, Rome, Vienna). But obviously they are really pushing connections in YYZ and YUL. The only 4 European destinations that AC serves from YVR (DUB, LHR, FRA, and ZRH) were not in the ad. It's like they did it on purpose lol jk.

They are really pushing Europe hard right now. It obviously is a pillar of strength while other markets are still quite depressed.

Hard to believe they need that much help from Eastern Canada to Europe to be pushing their ads all the way to Vancouver.

casper May 9, 2022 8:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9620158)
I'm not sure about other cities, but Air Canada has a huge radio campaign in Vancouver (I've hear the ad so many times), all about Europe (ie. promoting European destinations). I assume it is the same ad they would be using on radio in other cities, specifcally eastern ones. It's hilrious being here in Vancouver, because none of the destinations they mention in the ad are served from YVR lol, they (Athens, Paris, Nice, Barecelone, Rome, Vienna). But obviously they are really pushing connections in YYZ and YUL. The only 4 European destinations that AC serves from YVR (DUB, LHR, FRA, and ZRH) were not in the ad. It's like they did it on purpose lol jk.

They are really pushing Europe hard right now. It obviously is a pillar of strength while other markets are still quite depressed.

Given Lufthansa and Swiss are in a joint venture with Air Canada for European travel, I don't think AC care if you connect in Toronto, Montreal or Frankfurt or Zurich.

Dominion301 May 9, 2022 6:26 PM

Lynx are taking a page out of Swoop & Flair's playbooks and having select same-plane, one-stop services, including:

YEG-YHZ
YEG-YYT
YYC-YYT

Currently all one-stops stop at YYZ.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...845604713.html

"YYT major expansion" is quite the exaggeration as the frequency's the same, but the number of destinations accessible on the same ticket triples.

hehehe May 9, 2022 8:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9620507)
Lynx are taking a page out of Swoop & Flair's playbooks and having select same-plane, one-stop services, including:

YEG-YHZ
YEG-YYT
YYC-YYT

Currently all one-stops stop at YYZ.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...845604713.html

"YYT major expansion" is quite the exaggeration as the frequency's the same, but the number of destinations accessible on the same ticket triples.

That title made me laugh. This is a good idea on their end but why be so dramatic about it?

thenoflyzone May 9, 2022 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9620158)
I'm not sure about other cities, but Air Canada has a huge radio campaign in Vancouver (I've hear the ad so many times), all about Europe (ie. promoting European destinations). I assume it is the same ad they would be using on radio in other cities, specifcally eastern ones. It's hilrious being here in Vancouver, because none of the destinations they mention in the ad are served from YVR lol, they (Athens, Paris, Nice, Barecelone, Rome, Vienna). But obviously they are really pushing connections in YYZ and YUL. The only 4 European destinations that AC serves from YVR (DUB, LHR, FRA, and ZRH) were not in the ad. It's like they did it on purpose lol jk.

They are really pushing Europe hard right now. It obviously is a pillar of strength while other markets are still quite depressed.

I heard it as well here in Montreal. It's probably one ad playing nationwide, so it's not specific to Vancouver or any other city.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9620614)
That title made me laugh. This is a good idea on their end but why be so dramatic about it?

because dramatic is what sells.

Calfan12 May 10, 2022 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9620507)
Lynx are taking a page out of Swoop & Flair's playbooks and having select same-plane, one-stop services, including:

YEG-YHZ
YEG-YYT
YYC-YYT

Currently all one-stops stop at YYZ.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...845604713.html

"YYT major expansion" is quite the exaggeration as the frequency's the same, but the number of destinations accessible on the same ticket triples.

Yes & also Lynx is also adding Calgary YYC - Halifax YHZ 5x weekly service from July 14 2022,which brings its total of 8 Canada destinations it operates to from YYC.

MonctonRad May 10, 2022 12:51 PM

Reposted from the Atlantic Canada Airport Thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad (Post 9620874)
Swoop had their inaugural flight out of YQM yesterday.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/resized.ima...swoopplane.jpg

This image from the T&T shows the aircraft arriving from Hamilton (with 169 passengers on board) receiving a salute from airport fire/rescue vehicles. The return trip to Hamilton later that day was also a near sell-out with 150 passengers on board.

The Moncton/Edmonton service via Swoop will commence on June 17th.


Dominion301 May 10, 2022 8:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9621001)
Yes & also Lynx is also adding Calgary YYC - Halifax YHZ 5x weekly service from July 14 2022,which brings its total of 8 Canada destinations it operates to from YYC.

Ah yes I missed that one. Also a 1-stop.

EDIT: LOL and now this warrants it's own YHZ 'major expansion' press release: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...823609251.html

I have zero issues with issuing a PR for a 'destinations offered expansion', but calling something 'major' with ZERO new flight frequencies can hardly be seen as 'major'.

Dominion301 May 12, 2022 4:35 PM

YYZ handled 5.2 million pax in Q1 of 2022, which is +384.5% vs the same period last year.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...862943727.html

Also yesterday marked the inaugural 4N flight to YYZ routing YXY-YZF-YYZ.
https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...882562147.html

4N resumed YXY-YZF-YOW a couple of weeks prior.

hollywoodcory May 12, 2022 5:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9619756)
^Seems "cut" was the appropriate word after all. Even though flights were bookable yesterday from August 1 to October 15, their booking engine seems down right now - probably for an update -, plus they've advised YYC they wont be coming this summer.

Recent update shows it will now be operated by a Finnair A359 4x weekly. (The YHZ operation shows the same now too).

So I guess it hasn't been "completely" cut yet.

manny_santos May 12, 2022 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cranes (Post 9618742)
https://media.flyflair.com/flair-air...o-to-montreal/

FLAIR AIRLINES TO LAUNCH SERVICE FROM KITCHENER-WATERLOO TO MONTREAL

Edmonton, Alberta, May 4, 2022 – Flair Airlines, Canada’s everyday low fare airline, continues its growth in Kitchener-Waterloo with the announcement of service to Montreal-Trudeau International Airport. The non-stop route will connect Kitchener-Waterloo to Montreal twice weekly. Flair has recently announced a base expansion at Region of Waterloo International Airport, and today’s announcement is part of the expansion.

Beginning on July 7, passengers can travel twice weekly between the two cities.

“Kitchener-Waterloo continues to be an important market for Flair, and we look forward to starting service to Montreal from the airport,” said Garth Lund, Chief Commercial Officer, Flair Airlines. “We know the importance of accessible and affordable travel and with fares starting at $29, we’re excited to offer even more choice to residents of Kitchener-Waterloo.”

Something I've really noticed since travel has been reopening is the amount of expansion of flights at both Pearson Airport and Kitchener-Waterloo Airport, while London's airport continues to be treated as a backwater with next to no service other than Air Canada connecting flights to/from YYZ. Swoop is resuming London-Edmonton flights this summer but otherwise the only other service at YXU these days is a daily WestJet flight to Calgary. International flights have also not yet returned to YXU, despite there being no restrictions on international flights there anymore. In the final year prior to the pandemic, YXU had gained new services to Halifax and Abbotsford, and I know they also used to have flights to Ottawa and Montreal.

I wonder what the holdup is with YXU, and why Flair hasn't expanded there at all and Swoop is so slow to restore services there compared to other cities. They've actually added quite a few daily flights out of Pearson, which they did not have prior to the pandemic. With London's population now over 400,000 and rapidly growing, I think the airlines are neglecting London at their own peril - but I also wonder how much effort YXU management is putting into attracting commercial airlines there.

I visit my family in London multiple times per year and I really, really, really do not like having to fly through Pearson. I went to London a couple of weeks ago, I had to fly to Toronto and then wait over three hours for a Robert Q bus; there were about 20-25 of us waiting for the Robert Q, which tells me there's quite a bit of unmet demand for flights to London. There's absolutely no way to get to K-W Airport from London without driving, and getting to Pearson from London is not fun, particularly with all the construction on the 401 around Milton and Mississauga.

thenoflyzone May 12, 2022 11:29 PM

^ Flair probably chose YKF because of it's proximity to both Toronto and London. Also the population of Kitchener-Waterloo is slightly greater than that of London, which helps as well.

That's really all that separates YKF from YXU in terms of airline service. Flair.

And inversely, YXU has AC Express, whereas YKF doesn't, again because of the latter's proximity to Toronto.

It all makes sense, really.

Besides, YXU has always been the busier airport in terms of pax. We'll see if that changes with Flair at YKF.

Dominion301 May 13, 2022 1:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny_santos (Post 9623791)
Something I've really noticed since travel has been reopening is the amount of expansion of flights at both Pearson Airport and Kitchener-Waterloo Airport, while London's airport continues to be treated as a backwater with next to no service other than Air Canada connecting flights to/from YYZ. Swoop is resuming London-Edmonton flights this summer but otherwise the only other service at YXU these days is a daily WestJet flight to Calgary. International flights have also not yet returned to YXU, despite there being no restrictions on international flights there anymore. In the final year prior to the pandemic, YXU had gained new services to Halifax and Abbotsford, and I know they also used to have flights to Ottawa and Montreal.

I wonder what the holdup is with YXU, and why Flair hasn't expanded there at all and Swoop is so slow to restore services there compared to other cities. They've actually added quite a few daily flights out of Pearson, which they did not have prior to the pandemic. With London's population now over 400,000 and rapidly growing, I think the airlines are neglecting London at their own peril - but I also wonder how much effort YXU management is putting into attracting commercial airlines there.

I visit my family in London multiple times per year and I really, really, really do not like having to fly through Pearson. I went to London a couple of weeks ago, I had to fly to Toronto and then wait over three hours for a Robert Q bus; there were about 20-25 of us waiting for the Robert Q, which tells me there's quite a bit of unmet demand for flights to London. There's absolutely no way to get to K-W Airport from London without driving, and getting to Pearson from London is not fun, particularly with all the construction on the 401 around Milton and Mississauga.

YKF also has the likes of Woodstock, Guelph and even Oakville, Burlington and Hamilton (YHM's competing not just with YYZ anymore but now also YKF) to pull from and while Brantford is a bit closer to YHM, isn't much further to YXU or YKF in opposite directions.

AC are planning on brining back YXU-YUL for summer 2023 on a daily DH4.

YHZ-YXU I'm sure will come back on an ULCC, same with YWG-YXU. Don't forget, not only are Flair now all-in on YKF (also skipping out currently on YHM too), but they've also surrounded London with the addition of YQG.

With the DH3 retirement, I unfortunately can't see AC bringing back YXU-YOW, even though they flew the route for over 40 years. That would leave it to either a 2-4x weekly ULCC or Porter entering YXU with a daily DH4 to feed the future YOW jet base or someone like PAL or Pascan pushing further into Ontario.

Being in YOW, I can relate to YXU's slower recovery than other airports. On the international front, by the time the gov't green lighted YXU and the last batch of international airports to handle international flights again it was too late in the winter sun season. Those are all loaded up for next winter at least on TS & WG.

Dominion301 May 13, 2022 1:42 PM

Lynx launched YYJ yesterday 2x/week to YYC: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...840619387.html

Swoop launched YSJ yesterday 4x weekly to YYZ: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...837851365.html

manny_santos May 13, 2022 6:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9623849)
^ Flair probably chose YKF because of it's proximity to both Toronto and London. Also the population of Kitchener-Waterloo is slightly greater than that of London, which helps as well.

That's really all that separates YKF from YXU in terms of airline service. Flair.

And inversely, YXU has AC Express, whereas YKF doesn't, again because of the latter's proximity to Toronto.

It all makes sense, really.

Besides, YXU has always been the busier airport in terms of pax. We'll see if that changes with Flair at YKF.

I would be happier with using YKF or YHM for these flights if there was a way to easily get to either airport without having to drive, particularly from London. Technically there is am HSR bus that goes to YHM from the GO Centre in downtown Hamilton, however when I last used it in 2018 (coming from Toronto) I recall it had a very limited schedule and didn't line up with when flights were actually arriving/departing there, so I arrived at the airport 4 hours before a flight.

Something run by GO Transit connecting the main GO stations in both Kitchener and Hamilton (and perhaps VIA Aldershot) would be very helpful.

nname May 14, 2022 6:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9614134)
I’m assuming still no sign of AC9/10 either?

AC will resume 4x weekly AC9/10 as YYZ-NRT for W22, without the stop on YYC.

This is on top of daily YYZ-HND, but downgauged to 788.


Other changes:
YVR-SYD increase to 10x weekly
YVR-BNE reduce to 5x weekly
YVR-AKL increase to 5x weekly
YYZ-BOM resumes with 4x weekly
YYZ-ICN reduce to 4x weekly
YUL-LIM resume with 2x weekly AC86/87
YYZ-LIM reduce to 3x weekly

cranes May 15, 2022 2:45 AM

https://twitter.com/FlyYKF/status/1525196390355324930

"Progress is moving ⏩FAST FORWARD⏩ with your YKF #airport boarding lounge expansion, #WaterlooRegion! Take a peek, the space is starting to really take shape. We're loving the bright, airy feel of it - aren't you? "
3:28 PM · May 13, 2022

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSqVxehX...jpg&name=large

TheGreatestX May 15, 2022 4:40 PM

WestJet has removed YEG-YUL from its summer schedule. YUL now down to YYZ, YYC, YVR and YHZ on WS.

thenoflyzone May 16, 2022 1:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatestX (Post 9625671)
WestJet has removed YEG-YUL from its summer schedule. YUL now down to YYZ, YYC, YVR and YHZ on WS.

Casualty of Flair starting up the route, it seems. 3 carriers seems like too much for YUL-YEG. This being said, seems WestJet didn’t even fight for the route. They could have Swooped it and lowered the fares before calling it quits. It only highlights even more the airlines’ weakness in Quebec.

You’d think Canada’s second largest airline wouldn’t drop a route from the second largest city in the country to the fifth largest that easily, and yet….

MountainView May 16, 2022 1:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9625932)
Casualty of Flair starting up the route, it seems. 3 carriers seems like too much for YUL-YEG. This being said, seems WestJet didn’t even fight for the route. They could have Swooped it and lowered the fares before calling it quits. It only highlights even more the airlines’ weakness in Quebec.

You’d think Canada’s second largest airline wouldn’t drop a route from the second largest city in the country to the fifth largest that easily, and yet….

Yeah... agreed. WestJet did this on YOW-YEG but Swoop'ed it with a route announcement back in Feb/March.

Surprisingly... Swoop is flying YOW-YWG and WestJet is as well this summer...albeit I don't think WS is daily... but they did reintroduce this route 2/3x weekly throughout the pandemic... which AC has neglected. Good for WS on this!

Dominion301 May 16, 2022 3:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainView (Post 9625941)
Yeah... agreed. WestJet did this on YOW-YEG but Swoop'ed it with a route announcement back in Feb/March.

Surprisingly... Swoop is flying YOW-YWG and WestJet is as well this summer...albeit I don't think WS is daily... but they did reintroduce this route 2/3x weekly throughout the pandemic... which AC has neglected. Good for WS on this!

I believe that WS only removed Saturday service on YOW-YWG this summer.

WS Group are now substantially larger at YOW than YUL…but that’s not saying much.

EDIT: I forgot to mention AC will soon be restarting YOW-YWG 1x daily on a CR9.

On a separate note, did any YYZers on here catch the Samaritan’s Purse DC-8 today? I saw it on tv.

whatnext May 17, 2022 11:18 PM

Airline group calls on Ottawa to abandon current health measures at airports:

Regular travel and current public health measures can't coexist: Canadian Airports Council
-Passengers are being kept on planes for over an hour due to a lack of space at airports, council says
Laura Osman · The Canadian Press · Posted: May 17, 2022

International arrivals at Canadian airports are so backed up, people are being kept on planes for over an hour after they land because there isn't enough space for the long lineups of travellers, says the Canadian Airports Council.

The council blames COVID-19 protocols and has called on the federal government to do away with random tests and public health questions at customs to ease the serious delays passengers face when they arrive in Canada.

The extra steps mean it takes four times longer to process people as they arrive than it did before the pandemic, said the council's interim president Monette Pasher. That was fine when people weren't travelling, she said, but now it's become a serious problem.

"We're seeing that we clearly cannot have these public health requirements and testing at our borders as we get back to regular travel," she said.

The situation is particularly bad at Canada's largest airport, Toronto Pearson International, where passengers on 120 flights were held in their planes Sunday waiting for their turn to get in line for customs....


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tra...lays-1.6456655

Dominion301 May 18, 2022 4:57 PM

PortsToronto released their annual report. Contained on page 42 are YTZ's pax stats.
https://www.portstoronto.com/getatta...port-2021.aspx

Thenoflyzone, here are the stats for you to update the wiki going back to 2019:
Quote:

Billy Bishop Airport had another difficult year in 2021 with the temporary cessation of scheduled carriers continuing up to the restart date for service of September 8, 2021. In 2021, the Airport saw 0.282 million business and leisure travelers, down from 0.389 million in 2020, and down significantly
from 2019 when passenger numbers totaled 2.774 million.
Earlier in the report they said April 2022 said over 100,000 pax that month.

thenoflyzone May 18, 2022 6:34 PM

^ thanks for that.

2019 and 2020 numbers were already posted in the previous annual statements and are on wiki. I'll add 2021.

thenoflyzone May 18, 2022 7:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9627561)
Airline group calls on Ottawa to abandon current health measures at airports:

Regular travel and current public health measures can't coexist: Canadian Airports Council
-Passengers are being kept on planes for over an hour due to a lack of space at airports, council says
Laura Osman · The Canadian Press · Posted: May 17, 2022

International arrivals at Canadian airports are so backed up, people are being kept on planes for over an hour after they land because there isn't enough space for the long lineups of travellers, says the Canadian Airports Council.

The council blames COVID-19 protocols and has called on the federal government to do away with random tests and public health questions at customs to ease the serious delays passengers face when they arrive in Canada.

The extra steps mean it takes four times longer to process people as they arrive than it did before the pandemic, said the council's interim president Monette Pasher. That was fine when people weren't travelling, she said, but now it's become a serious problem.

"We're seeing that we clearly cannot have these public health requirements and testing at our borders as we get back to regular travel," she said.

The situation is particularly bad at Canada's largest airport, Toronto Pearson International, where passengers on 120 flights were held in their planes Sunday waiting for their turn to get in line for customs....


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tra...lays-1.6456655

As far as customs backlogs are concerned, this has been affecting YYZ the most, obviously, and for almost a year now. Last summer, they were holding passengers on the inbound aircraft as well. As international passenger numbers continue to rise, this will only get worse, and possibly even start affecting YUL and YVR as well, if it's not already the case. That arrivecan app bullshit needs to go.

Top 4 airports - International (incl. Transborder) passenger numbers in Q1 2022.

YYZ 3.2 million
YUL 1,471,908
YVR 1,160,239
YYC 661,750

JustForTheHalibut May 19, 2022 4:16 PM

JetBlue axes Vancouver-Boston route until Fall, JFK to YVR still a go though.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/jetblue-nixes-...ston-1.5909786


"Vancouver will still become the airline's first Canadian destination next month, however, as a planned route between Vancouver International Airport and New York-JFK "remains on track to launch June 9."

JakeLRS May 20, 2022 4:28 PM

Swoop won't have in-seat power or wifi on their 737 MAX aircraft, making it on-par with Flair and Lynx.

I still don't see any routes operating on the MAX yet. The website does indicate some current flight schedules might have the aircraft type change.

https://www.flyswoop.com/boeing-737-MAX/

thenoflyzone May 20, 2022 9:45 PM

Several new international routes were launched from airports in Quebec this week !

Firstly, Air France inaugurated service to YQB on May 17. Operating 3x weekly with A332 until October 27. This is an amazing score for YQB, and even though TS is on the route, hopefully both of them can co-exist.

https://corporate.airfrance.com/en/n...nd%20Vancouver.

Short video of the inaugural landing at YQB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhH8BhTRj9w

Also, AC inaugurates YUL-SAN and YUL-MXP today. (The last time Montreal had MXP service was probably in the 80s and 90s, with Alitalia at YMX.) SEA service begins later this month on May 31. That will bring to 4 the number of non stops AC will have from YUL to the US west coast. (6 if we count PHX and LAS).

And let's not forget Transat, which inaugurated YUL-LAX on May 17 (now scheduled year round), YUL-SFO on May 19, and YUL-AMS earlier in the month on May 5.

https://canadiantravelnews.ca/2022/0...o-los-angeles/

Also, TS released its full winter 2022-2023 schedule.

https://canadianaviationnews.wordpre...-2023-program/

thewave46 May 21, 2022 3:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9630376)
Several new international routes were launched from airports in Quebec this week !

Firstly, Air France inaugurated service to YQB on May 17. Operating 3x weekly with A332 until October 27. This is an amazing score for YQB, and even though TS is on the route, hopefully both of them can co-exist.

https://corporate.airfrance.com/en/n...nd%20Vancouver.

Short video of the inaugural landing at YQB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhH8BhTRj9w

I am curious why Air Canada doesn't try service to CDG from YQB with their MAX 8. It would seem to be the perfect aircraft for a summer seasonal route.

Good for Air France for giving YQB some love though.

zahav May 21, 2022 4:25 PM

I'm happy it is AF that is providing service to YQB, gives them an international airline prestige and it's a vote of confidence that an international airline would use their metal on a route like this. AC wouldn't have made the first move on starting this route, but maybe they will jump in now, who knows. AF booted AC off the YVR-CDG route, AC discontinued it after COVID but AF kept it up, which is more preferrable for me anyways. I hope people in YVR and YQB support AF for providing them with non stop service, and shun AC which makes them connect in YYZ or YUL...

thenoflyzone May 22, 2022 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9630717)
I am curious why Air Canada doesn't try service to CDG from YQB with their MAX 8. It would seem to be the perfect aircraft for a summer seasonal route.

It would, but AC seems content to leverage their main hubs as best they can at the moment. Apart from resuming 1 non-hub European route, YHZ-LHR, all they've done since the pandemic began is leverage their main hubs of YYZ, YUL and YVR.

Same for WS. (YHZ-Europe being the exception, again)

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9630751)
AC wouldn't have made the first move on starting this route, but maybe they will jump in now, who knows.

With 2 carriers now on the route, it's highly unlikely AC starts up YQB-CDG. Let's see if the market can support 2 carriers first.....

thenoflyzone May 23, 2022 7:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9630376)

Also, AC inaugurates YUL-SAN

They seem happy with the loads to SAN. The route was initially planned to be 3x weekly summer seasonal. It has now been extended to year round and it will also get a bump to 5x weekly in Sept and October. So good news....

Alexcaban May 23, 2022 8:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9631888)
They seem happy with the loads to SAN. The route was initially planned to be 3x weekly summer seasonal. It has now been extended to year round and it will also get a bump to 5x weekly in Sept and October. So good news....

And switch from 220 to 7M8.

casper May 24, 2022 2:14 AM

Interesting, Flair has an exclusivity on certain routes out of Waterloo.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8848749/f...t-exclusivity/

Not certain why WestJet wants to run its Swoop brand on some of these, but they should be given the opportunity if they want to operate the route.

WestJet/Swoop was told they were not permitted to operate Waterloo-Halifax or Waterloo-Edmonton.

Djeffery May 24, 2022 2:22 AM

YKF must be desperate for flights to be signing deals like that. I would rather hitch my wagon to the WestJet train if I was an airport authority.

thenoflyzone May 24, 2022 9:29 AM

This is interesting.

And even though the article mentions that experts think there is nothing illegal here, I would tend to disagree.

This isn't YTZ, a busy airport where the lone terminal building was owned by one carrier. This is an underserved airport and an airport authority putting restrictions on where a carrier can/can't fly. And that, in my view, is illegal.

An airport authority's main goal is to run an airport. Not dictate to airlines where they can/can't operate to. This goes well above their purview. The CTA should investigate the legality of this ASAP. At the very least it is anti-competitive, and at most, downright illegal. Neither of which is in the best interest of Canadians.

kwoldtimer May 24, 2022 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 9632094)
YKF must be desperate for flights to be signing deals like that. I would rather hitch my wagon to the WestJet train if I was an airport authority.

As the article notes, YKF decided to offer exclusivity agreements (2 years duration, iirc) in order to entice airlines to serve the airport. The idea that this is Flair not playing fair is shoddy journalism.

hehehe May 24, 2022 1:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer (Post 9632222)
As the article notes, YKF decided to offer exclusivity agreements (2 years duration, iirc) in order to entice airlines to serve the airport. The idea that this is Flair not playing fair is shoddy journalism.

This definitely seems like more of a YKF issue, but it still seems so odd that they'd have exclusivity on certain routes. I've never heard of any airport in Canada doing that.

Djeffery May 24, 2022 1:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer (Post 9632222)
As the article notes, YKF decided to offer exclusivity agreements (2 years duration, iirc) in order to entice airlines to serve the airport. The idea that this is Flair not playing fair is shoddy journalism.

Flair can ask for the world, they are a business, knock themselves out. It's desperation on YKF's part to sign a deal like that in my opinion. WestJet was there before Flair, and will be there after Flair is gone, I don't think it's good business for the airport to restrict an existing business partner from growing there. If YKF said no to the deal, what was Flair going to do? They would either enter the market anyway, knowing the possibility exists they might face competition, or take their plane and go somewhere else where they know they will face competition.

Base May 24, 2022 8:55 PM

It is kind of a neat concept for a smaller airport to build a little stability with a route. The fact it is time limited makes a lot of sense of course.

Basically YKF is saying we have a better shot at giving our clients better service with a carrier having some time to get their feet under them. Make no mistake that Swoop only wants to talk about these routes now so that they can hurt Flair, not in the best interest of the Waterloo patrons. This is just a different way of going about a route subsidy in a sense.

kwoldtimer May 24, 2022 8:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9632262)
This definitely seems like more of a YKF issue, but it still seems so odd that they'd have exclusivity on certain routes. I've never heard of any airport in Canada doing that.

I doubt any airport in Canada has had YKF's history of attracting/losing flights.

kwoldtimer May 24, 2022 8:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 9632267)
Flair can ask for the world, they are a business, knock themselves out. It's desperation on YKF's part to sign a deal like that in my opinion. WestJet was there before Flair, and will be there after Flair is gone, I don't think it's good business for the airport to restrict an existing business partner from growing there. If YKF said no to the deal, what was Flair going to do? They would either enter the market anyway, knowing the possibility exists they might face competition, or take their plane and go somewhere else where they know they will face competition.

I think you are missing the point - it was YKF that initiated (a number of years ago) and pursued the exclusivity arrangements, in the hopes of attracting airlines.

thenoflyzone May 24, 2022 9:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9632262)
This definitely seems like more of a YKF issue, but it still seems so odd that they'd have exclusivity on certain routes. I've never heard of any airport in Canada doing that.

It is very unusual, and I think it is a grey area at best, and illegal at worst.

The article mentions that Flair isn't the first airline to take advantage of this kind of agreement at YKF. The other must have been Sunwing to CUN (assuming it's not WestJet to YYC, since they're the ones complaining !).

Now that this is public knowledge, I'm very interested to see what the CTA will do.

Airport authorities shouldn't have the right to dictate to airlines where they can or can't fly.

Having a subsidy or discount policy on new destinations makes sense. First come first served. That I get. Plenty of airports do it. But exclusivity agreements are pushing it, according to me.

YKF should have told Swoop, "ok. You want to launch YEG or YHZ, that's fine, but I'm not giving you any subsidies since we already have an operator on both those routes".

Nothing more.

jamincan May 24, 2022 9:58 PM

Allowing exclusive rights to a route is hardly a new thing. Prior to deregulation, it was the norm, and it still exists for a lot of international routes. Similarly, I have a hard time seeing what exactly would be illegal here. It's one business making a deal with another. It's no more anticompetitive than McDonald's only serving Coke.

This offer was an attempt by the airport to attract and sustain service, and it was available to all airlines. The fact that WestJet choose not to take it is their fault.

thenoflyzone May 24, 2022 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamincan (Post 9632821)
Allowing exclusive rights to a route is hardly a new thing. Prior to deregulation, it was the norm, and it still exists for a lot of international routes.

Yes, as long as it is enforced by governments through ATAs (air transport agreements).

Not by airport authorities.

A Canadian carrier has the right to fly between any two points in Canada. An airport authority refusing that right based solely on an exclusivity agreement is nonsense in my book.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamincan (Post 9632821)
It's no more anticompetitive than McDonald's only serving Coke.

I wanted to say apples and oranges, but it's more like apples and peas. Besides, we all know Coke is better than Pepsi. ;)

jamincan May 24, 2022 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9632825)
A Canadian carrier has the right to fly between any two points in Canada. An airport authority refusing that right based solely on an exclusivity agreement is nonsense in my book.

You say they have this right, but I don't believe they do. I would be curious to hear what you believe is the basis for such a right.

YKF is not a federally owned airport, so the federal government can't force access that way (not does it do so at YTZ, which they do own through the Port Authority). And domestic air travel is deregulated... forcing route competition would be a form of regulation. You could argue that the agreement is invalid because it is anticompetitive, but these sorts of limited exclusivity agreements are common in other industries and I think it would be a tough argument for Swoop to make that it is against public interest.

whatnext May 24, 2022 11:29 PM

Victoria (YYJ) closed to commercial flights due to police incident but no details....

https://www.timescolonist.com/local-...celled-5402622

casper May 24, 2022 11:31 PM

No details on this police incident at YYJ. Airport is closed to commercial flights due to police call for service.

https://www.timescolonist.com/local-...celled-5402622

thenoflyzone May 24, 2022 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamincan (Post 9632840)
You say they have this right, but I don't believe they do. I would be curious to hear what you believe is the basis for such a right.

https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/faq-air-licensing

Point 1.

Quote:

A domestic licence authorizes a Canadian air carrier to operate a publicly-available air service within Canada for the transportation of passengers and/or cargo. A domestic licence may be issued to allow the operation of small aircraft, medium aircraft, large aircraft, and/or all-cargo aircraft.
As to what consitutes an air service:

https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/notice-ind...es-air-service

Quote:

An “air service” is one that is:

1. offered and made available to the public;
2. provided by means of an aircraft;
3. provided pursuant to a contract or arrangement for the transportation of passengers or goods; and
4. offered for consideration.
An airport authority refusing that right based on exclusivity is very much contestable, as they are quashing an airlines' right to provide an air service, a right which is granted to them based on their domestic license.


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