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Coldrsx Jun 24, 2022 11:36 PM

That DC-9 is so slick.

'Singapore 85'

casper Jun 25, 2022 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9659283)
Really? Which airline? I remember coming to Canada in 1982 and those PTV's were the first thing I went on at Mirabel Airport. I didn't even know YEG ever used these.

They made a lot of sense for Mirabel. In the 1980s I did the odd Canadian Pacific flight from Toronto to Lisbon or the odd TAP Air Portugal Charter on the same route. They always had to stop in Mirabel between Lisbon and Toronto. You waited on the aircraft as they docked the people mover and the local Montreal passengers would get on/off. Then you would continue to the final destination.

Back then all the airports in Canada were owned and operated by Transport Canada. Not surprising to see things done the same way between all the locaitons.

Dominion301 Jun 25, 2022 5:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx (Post 9659372)
That DC-9 is so slick.

'Singapore 85'

Yup. Long live the 9!

thewave46 Jun 25, 2022 7:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9659886)
Yup. Long live the 9!

Not too much longer for the DC-9 and its descendants, alas.

Delta has announced the phaseout of the Boeing 717 (nee MD-95) - the last descendant of the DC-9 - by 2025. Qantas has as well. That pretty much leaves Hawaiian as the only operator left.

Unless one is doing air cargo.

What’s the meaning of Singapore 85?

Djeffery Jun 25, 2022 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9659942)

What’s the meaning of Singapore 85?

Took some searching but came up with "Promoting the launch of the Toronto-London-Bombay-Singapore route in 1985."

thenoflyzone Jun 25, 2022 10:41 PM

^ and they’re resurrecting 75% of that route soon….

Edit: it’s more like 66%.

Dominion301 Jun 26, 2022 4:35 AM

I never knew Time Air flew a (multiple?) King Air 90 in full Canadi>n livery in the late 80s. This photo was shot at YXD. Which communities did it fly to?

https://www.airhistory.net/photos/0188103.jpg

zahav Jun 26, 2022 9:50 PM

This is surprising..

EL AL ISRAEL AIRLINES CLOSING BOOKINGS ON 3 ROUTES FROM LATE-OCT 2022
NW22
Published at 0400GMT 26JUN22

El Al Israel Airlines in the last few days closed reservation for on selected markets. As of 26JUN22, following routes are no longer available for reservation for travel on/after 30OCT22, including summer 2023 season on/after 25MAR23:

Tel Aviv – Brussels 2 weekly 737-800
Tel Aviv – Toronto 2 weekly 787-9 (El Al served Toronto since April 1986; approximate)
Tel Aviv – Warsaw 5 weekly 737-800/-900

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220626-lynw22

This route was pretty important for a lot of people travelling to Israel, non-Jewish people may not get it, but El Al is more than just an airline, it is really symbolic in North America especially. This is obviously a result of AC growing the route and from YUL (El Al does not fly to YUL, but probably did in the Mirabel days?). But AC really adding a ton of capacity on the route was the death knell fore sure. Don't like seeing airlines like this withdraw from Canada

thenoflyzone Jun 27, 2022 12:51 AM

AC has been serving YYZ-TLV since 1995.
YUL-TLV was launched in 2017 as a summer seasonal 2x weekly service, and is now running summer seasonal 3x weekly. I wouldn't call that "adding a ton of capacity."

According to this link, they will use the frames freed up to launch other routes. That tells me they are managing yields. Doesn't mean YYZ was losing money. Simply means they think they can make more money with that frame somewhere else. YYZ is the most expensive airport in the world to operate to, after all.

They are currently serving YYZ 3x weekly. That's pretty weak, considering AC has daily service.

And yes, EL Al used to serve YMX back in the days, and even YUL in the late 90s, when international flights got transferred back to YUL.

esquire Jun 27, 2022 2:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9660232)
I never knew Time Air flew a (multiple?) King Air 90 in full Canadi>n livery in the late 80s. This photo was shot at YXD. Which communities did it fly to?

https://www.airhistory.net/photos/0188103.jpg

Same vibes :haha:

https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/6/59751_1447086212.jpg

Zmonkey Jun 27, 2022 3:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9660686)
AC has been serving YYZ-TLV since 1995.
YUL-TLV was launched in 2017 as a summer seasonal 2x weekly service, and is now running summer seasonal 3x weekly. I wouldn't call that "adding a ton of capacity."

According to this link, they will use the frames freed up to launch other routes. That tells me they are managing yields. Doesn't mean YYZ was losing money. Simply means they think they can make more money with that frame somewhere else. YYZ is the most expensive airport in the world to operate to, after all.

They are currently serving YYZ 3x weekly. That's pretty weak, considering AC has daily service.

And yes, EL Al used to serve YMX back in the days, and even YUL in the late 90s, when international flights got transferred back to YUL.

People are still saying Toronto is the most expensive airport in the world despite it not being true eh? Guess a bad story still sticks. It was never fully true.

Toronto had highest posted rates 12-14 years ago for many airlines (never Air Canada whos landing fees are basically $0 at Toronto), but included everything (stands, overnight parking, check in couters etc), other airports charged extra. 7-8 years ago Toronto changed its pricing model to be like everyone else. Still expensive, but not most expensive. And they offer massive credits if you choose non peak times or to keep people flying in. For example Flair found it cheaper to fly to Toronto vs Hamilton.

Airboy Jun 27, 2022 4:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9660232)
I never knew Time Air flew a (multiple?) King Air 90 in full Canadi>n livery in the late 80s. This photo was shot at YXD. Which communities did it fly to?

https://www.airhistory.net/photos/0188103.jpg

Ft Chip sometimes to Peace River, Highlevel and once I had it up to Ft Nelson.

thenoflyzone Jun 27, 2022 4:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmonkey (Post 9661071)
People are still saying Toronto is the most expensive airport in the world despite it not being true eh? Guess a bad story still sticks. It was never fully true.

Toronto had highest posted rates 12-14 years ago for many airlines (never Air Canada whos landing fees are basically $0 at Toronto), but included everything (stands, overnight parking, check in couters etc), other airports charged extra. 7-8 years ago Toronto changed its pricing model to be like everyone else. Still expensive, but not most expensive. And they offer massive credits if you choose non peak times or to keep people flying in. For example Flair found it cheaper to fly to Toronto vs Hamilton.

Be that as it may, YYZ is still one of the most expensive in the world. Whether you are 1st of 5th, makes no difference, honestly.

I know AC has negotiated a long term agreement with the GTAA, but most other foreign carriers don't have that privilege, including El Al.

A lot of LCCs have been flooding into Israel and TLV in the last 9 years since they signed an open skies deal with the EU. The likes of Ryanair, Wizzair flooding in with dozens of destinations and lower airfares doesn't help a high cost airline like El Al. Add to the fact that they only fly 6 days a week, means passengers often go looking for flights elsewhere.

This is why I am not surprised by the closure of WAW. Both Ryanair and Wizzair fly from there to TLV, not to mention LOT.

BRU is a bit surprising. Only 1 other competitor, same as YYZ. They've already reduced YYZ to a skeleton schedule anyways. Considering your competitor is flying daily flights, the least you could do to compete is to offer the maximum you can, 6x weekly. But they haven't bothered doing even that in a long time. Better to just kill off the route if they can make more money elsewhere.

zahav Jun 27, 2022 6:20 PM

As I said, El Al is a very important airline symbolically, so I think even just adding 3x weekly YUL would've compounded the route issues, and added to a decision like this. It's really too bad, Canada is one of the largest Jewish populations so losing El Al is sad. Obviously they are a business and need to make money. But what they provided was more than just a business to people in Israel and overseas, it was really a link symbolically. And I think they kept many routes for this reason. So seeing it cut meant they really really couldn't keep it going, because believe me, this is an airline that has prestige by connecting many of the world's major Jewish populations, so they had to think long and hard.

thenoflyzone Jun 28, 2022 4:33 PM

^ Well, If El Al is all that important for the Jewish community of Toronto, then hopefully they'll bring the route back in a couple of years, when/if the market conditions are more favorable.

El Al cut MIA several years back as well but has since brought it back. Hopefully YYZ will be the same.

In other news, AC cutting July capacity out of YUL and YYZ. Most likely related to staff shortages.

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220627-acjul22

Quote:

Air Canada during the week of 20JUN22 filed service reductions on North America routes from Montreal and Toronto, for the month of July 2022. Based on schedule comparison 19JUN22 vs 26JUN22, planned adjustment includes the following.

Montreal North America departure for July 2022
as of 19JUN22: 4012 flights, 475139 seats
as of 26JUN22: 3783 flights, 456410 seats (5.7% flight reductions)

Toronto North America departure for July 2022
as of 19JUN22: 7609 flights, 959726 seats
as of 26JUN22: 7316 flights, 935210 seats (3.9% flight reductions)

Montreal – Bathurst 31 > 18
Montreal – Boston 124 > 93
Montreal – Moncton 93 > 62
Montreal – Newark 124 > 108
Montreal – New York LaGuardia 155 > 139
Montreal – Ottawa 247 > 216
Montreal – Pittsburgh 31 > 27
Montreal – Quebec City 146 > 115
Montreal – Toronto 427 > 436-437 (Service increase)
Montreal – Toronto City 226 > 197
Toronto – Boston 187 > 157
Toronto – Chicago O’Hare 217 > 186
Toronto – Detroit 124 > 93
Toronto – Fort Lauderdale 62 > 64 (Service increase)
Toronto – London ON 124 > 118
Toronto – New York LaGuardia 281 > 261
Toronto – North Bay 62 > 31
Toronto – Ottawa 311 > 280
Toronto – Timmins 93 > 62
Toronto – Windsor 155 > 124
Toronto City – Ottawa 82 > 67

Air Canada during the month of July 2022 suspends following North America routes to/from Montreal:
Montreal – Baltimore/Washington 01JUL22 – 31JUL22
Montreal – Kelowna 01JUL22 – 31JUL22

Dominion301 Jun 28, 2022 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airboy (Post 9661111)
Ft Chip sometimes to Peace River, Highlevel and once I had it up to Ft Nelson.

That’s amazing. How many King Air 90s were in the fleet?

Nowadays we talk about the death of the 19, 37 and 50 seaters and CP’s regional airline at one time flew six seaters.

Dominion301 Jun 28, 2022 10:56 PM

For the first time in a long, long time AC are going to operate internationally out of YEG.

After a 10.5 year hiatus YEG-CUN returns on AC twice weekly on the 7M8.

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220628-acnw22cun

SpongeG Jun 28, 2022 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9660608)
This is surprising..

EL AL ISRAEL AIRLINES CLOSING BOOKINGS ON 3 ROUTES FROM LATE-OCT 2022
NW22
Published at 0400GMT 26JUN22

El Al Israel Airlines in the last few days closed reservation for on selected markets. As of 26JUN22, following routes are no longer available for reservation for travel on/after 30OCT22, including summer 2023 season on/after 25MAR23:

Tel Aviv – Brussels 2 weekly 737-800
Tel Aviv – Toronto 2 weekly 787-9 (El Al served Toronto since April 1986; approximate)
Tel Aviv – Warsaw 5 weekly 737-800/-900

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220626-lynw22

This route was pretty important for a lot of people travelling to Israel, non-Jewish people may not get it, but El Al is more than just an airline, it is really symbolic in North America especially. This is obviously a result of AC growing the route and from YUL (El Al does not fly to YUL, but probably did in the Mirabel days?). But AC really adding a ton of capacity on the route was the death knell fore sure. Don't like seeing airlines like this withdraw from Canada

I flew El Al in the 80's from Montreal Mirabel. I think it was 1983.

thenoflyzone Jun 29, 2022 9:45 PM

Well YUL has been a total shit show these last couple of weeks. AC can't keep up with demand. A lot of flights are delayed, canceled, creating long lineups at the airport. There's also unaccounted baggage everywhere apparently, due to all the delays/cancelations.

ADM's CEO mentioned today that international traffic is at pre-pandemic levels currently (which is good to see, but it comes with problems !), and that they might be forced to cancel flights/destinations entirely this summer because they can't keep up with the demand.

Link in french only

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...ction-services

AC already canceled YUL-BWI and YLW for July. More might follow.

I heard through a friend that even AC managers at YUL are rolling up their sleeves, and working on the ramp, cleaning planes and loading/unloading baggage. Apparently every department is extremely short staffed.

Europe isn't any better. I keep hearing AC flights coming back from Europe will little to no baggage.

It's going to be a fun summer.

FlyYOW Jun 29, 2022 10:06 PM

I’m coming around to the MoT’s calls for airline accountability in this mess. I sympathize with the innocent people going through these horrors…not with the people who caused them.


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