SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Supertall Construction (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=323)
-   -   NEW YORK | Central Park Tower (Nordstrom)| 1,550 FT | 131 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191095)

ILNY Aug 27, 2013 1:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6244816)
Solow Group has a big development site on the south side of 57th Street between 5th & 6th.

There's another sizable development site owned by Durst on the south side of 57th Street near 6th.


This is view from 56th Street looking north around 6th. Is this Solow's or Durst's lot? Are they waiting to buy 5 story building in NE corner? This is a large property on one of most prestigious streets in Manhattan just sitting there undeveloped and gathering dust.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2807/9...7dabec28_b.jpg


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7297/9...22148415_b.jpg

NYguy Aug 27, 2013 4:37 AM

^ Send them an email.


Quote:

Originally Posted by UTEPman (Post 6245405)
Sorry to say, but if this one doesn't live up to its full height then you all may be screwed.

One of the most ridiculous statements I've seen on this forum, and there have been many.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaze23 (Post 6245290)
http://http://m.nypost.com/p/news/bu...Xy9bOqQ8Ox1BvJ

Nordstrom buys its 57th St. store, jumbo skyscraper pending


Barnett has agreed to convey the completed store to Nordstrom as a condominium. No condominium plan is yet filed. The Nordstrom deal was announced last June by Mayor Bloomberg and Barnett along with Erik and Peter Nordstrom.

To date, the city Buildings Department has not approved plans for the new building. “We are simply going through the natural evolution of the design of the building, and we are still developing the necessary plans for approval,” the spokesman for Barnett emailed.

It will be interesting to see how this shapes up over the store. The article also mentioned there would be a store entrance on Broadway, which I kinda figured there would.

Blaze23 Aug 27, 2013 5:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTEPman (Post 6245405)
Sorry to say, but if this one doesn't live up to its full height then you all may be screwed.

The way I see it, there is a massive assortment of office space going up (Hudson Yards, WTC, etc) and certainly a ton of high end residential. Now, I know residential is hot right now, but how many super-lux condo's can NY absorb? It will slow eventually (and probably soon with so many supertalls being built).

There aren't gonna be many more supertall office complexes going up soon (since it will take some time to absorb all the previously mentioned space). I also imagine that their aren't going to be too many more supertall residentials going up (at least not many going over 1100ft).

So all in all I think this is the best chance NY has of getting something over 1500ft for a very long time (and maybe forever). I mean really, in a century NY has only built a few buildings over 1200ft (to roof).

This is why I hope this building goes to it's proposed height and beyond.

That's a fair assessment but it's incomplete. Nobody in their right mind believes that we can build infinite amounts of high end condos even in a city like NY and i'm sure at some point demand for condos used as actual residences will fall, but you have to consider the market we're in. A large portion of of people buying those condos buy them as investments as the global economy is still shaky and some of them seek to diversify their portfolios and the US even at its current state is still the most stable place to invest in compared to other places (Europe being in constant stagnation and Developing countries like the famous BRICS are showing signs of decline) and NYC is at the forefront. So this leads a lot of investor to seek safe spots where they can park their money, i.e. NYC real estate and a decline in the global economy actually increases the appetite for such investments, since real estate has always been seen as safer than let's say stocks and developers know that, that's why you see so many of them moving forward with those kind of project; and don't forget, inventory is still pretty low in NYC. So will we see a drop in demand for high end residentials at some point, sure, but as long as the economy remains shaky, which it might for some time, there will be a market for those developments.
As far as office towers, with so much office space in the city outdated, there's going to be growing need for new buildings, so there will be demand for new office space, maybe not as pronounced as high end residentials but the WTC and HY eventually won't be enough and as we can see with plans like 425 Park and 1 Vanderbilt, developers are planning ahead

Crawford Aug 27, 2013 1:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILNY (Post 6245486)
This is view from 56th Street looking north around 6th. Is this Solow's or Durst's lot? Are they waiting to buy 5 story building in NE corner? This is a large property on one of most prestigious streets in Manhattan just sitting there undeveloped and gathering dust.

This is Durst's lot. Durst has been buying up adjacent properties, and is trying to create a major assemblage.

The Solow assemblage is very close to 5th Ave. There's also an Extell-owned lot in the middle of the Solow assemblage, but Solow is reportedly trying to buy the site.

Crawford Aug 27, 2013 1:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTEPman (Post 6245405)
Sorry to say, but if this one doesn't live up to its full height then you all may be screwed.

Not sure why you say this. Why would this "screw" the NYC housing market?

If anything, if you're claiming there's too much luxury product, then it would be good for other developers if this project were delayed or downsized.

But I don't think your premise is correct. NYC does not have that much up-to-date luxury product relative to demand. And Gary Barnett doesn't mess around.

This project will be very tall and iconic, and every building permit filed so far shows 1,550 to roof. If it ends up taller or shorter, I don't see why that would matter for the overall NYC market, which isn't dependent on one building or one developer.

King DenCity Aug 27, 2013 3:21 PM

I am not familiar with this firms designs so I was wondering what the general census is on styles likely to be used on this building? I am hoping for some modern take on the gothic style (a la tower verre), or maybe some glassed up version of art deco. So what do u guys think?

PS. as long as it's not some abstract random shape with rooms I won't die of a heart attack. :D

UTEPman Aug 27, 2013 7:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 6245609)
^ Send them an email.




One of the most ridiculous statements I've seen on this forum, and there have been many.





It will be interesting to see how this shapes up over the store. The article also mentioned there would be a store entrance on Broadway, which I kinda figured there would.


Well, don't I feel so foolish for having drawn the disdain of ny guy.

I'd like to know what is so ridiculous about my statement. How often does NY (or any city in this country for that matter) get proposals that are 1550ft or more? Even in the midst of a building boom of sorts out there, you still have yet to see many proposals that break the 1,200ft mark.

This isn't China or the Middle East. Proposals that are above 1500ft (at least one's that can be taken seriously) are a rarity in this country, and will continue to be in the foreseeable future.

And yes, I realize there are proposals in the preliminary stages that promise to go to great heights in New York. Fact is, most projects don't live up to their full hype.

If this project doesn't get there, then it will probably be a decade (at least) before any other developer attempts to build that high.

UTEPman Aug 27, 2013 7:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6245786)
Not sure why you say this. Why would this "screw" the NYC housing market?

If anything, if you're claiming there's too much luxury product, then it would be good for other developers if this project were delayed or downsized.

But I don't think your premise is correct. NYC does not have that much up-to-date luxury product relative to demand. And Gary Barnett doesn't mess around.

This project will be very tall and iconic, and every building permit filed so far shows 1,550 to roof. If it ends up taller or shorter, I don't see why that would matter for the overall NYC market, which isn't dependent on one building or one developer.

I probably chose my words badly. I meant that NY may be screwed from getting that plateau breaking skyscraper that i'm sure everyone is looking forward to. A skyscraper of this height would be pretty significant, as it would most likely end up being over 1600ft in the end. Serious proposals like this aren't going to come around very often.....

-Filipe- Aug 27, 2013 8:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTEPman (Post 6246241)
I probably chose my words badly. I meant that NY may be screwed from getting that plateau breaking skyscraper that i'm sure everyone is looking forward to. A skyscraper of this height would be pretty significant, as it would most likely end up being over 1600ft in the end. Serious proposals like this aren't going to come around very often.....

maybe not at the moment, just like people said that a few years ago about buildings 1000ft didn't come around often..you have to build your way up higher and higher a few of each not like china you cna have a 2 story building next to a 120 story..doesnt make sence.

King DenCity Aug 27, 2013 8:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTEPman (Post 6246241)
I probably chose my words badly. I meant that NY may be screwed from getting that plateau breaking skyscraper that i'm sure everyone is looking forward to. A skyscraper of this height would be pretty significant, as it would most likely end up being over 1600ft in the end. Serious proposals like this aren't going to come around very often.....

I agree with u to some extent, but I believe there is a serious demand for residental as was said by crawford.

NYguy Aug 28, 2013 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6245786)
This project will be very tall and iconic, and every building permit filed so far shows 1,550 to roof. If it ends up taller or shorter, I don't see why that would matter for the overall NYC market, which isn't dependent on one building or one developer.

It won't. With all of the development proposals in the pipeline, things are really just getting stirred in the market for these types of towers. The ability to get financing will decide where the line is drawn. Even at the 1,550 ft height, this tower is tall, but not an extremely large building, with somewhere around 1.2 msf.


Quote:

Originally Posted by UTEPman (Post 6246239)
Well, don't I feel so foolish for having drawn the disdain of ny guy. I'd like to know what is so ridiculous about my statement. How often does NY (or any city in this country for that matter) get proposals that are 1550ft or more? Even in the midst of a building boom of sorts out there, you still have yet to see many proposals that break the 1,200ft mark.

If this project doesn't get there, then it will probably be a decade (at least) before any other developer attempts to build that high.

It's ridiculous for a variety of reasons, the first of which is your assertion that anyone would be "screwed" by a tower not reaching a certain height. I have to say it again, ridiculous. The last few years alone should have shown you something. When Extell's One57 was being planned to become New York's tallest residential (forget about Silverstein's 30 Park plan to take that title), did we have any idea or reason to believe that 432 Park would take it? No. With 432 Park's plan to become the new tallest, did we think anything would top it? No, and certainly not as soon. We don't know what the future holds, so it is ridiculous to say with any type of certainty that this could potentially be the only tower to top that height.

Now, for sure, we don't even know what the height of this tower is yet. There's still a lot on the table. But just keep in mind that although these towers are tall, they are hardly the tallest proposals to come around in Manhattan.


http://therealdeal.com/blog/2013/08/...-58th-st-home/

After Extell windfall, piano maker finds new West 58th St. home


http://s12.therealdeal.com/trd/up/20...58thStDeal.jpg


August 28, 2013
By Hiten Samtani


Quote:

Things are certainly in tune for Carl Demler. After making a killing from Extell Development’s ambitions for a West 57th Street skyscraper, the owner of Beethoven Pianos has managed to stay put on Piano Row, paying about $8.65 million for a building just down the road from the property he sold to Gary Barnett, The Real Deal has learned.

In July, Extell paid Demler $25 million for the two-story, 4,000-square-foot building at 232 West 58th Street that was home to the piano store. The deal paved the way for Extell to move ahead with plans for 225 West 57th Street, an 88-story residential skyscraper that will stretch 1,550 feet, eclipsing the developer’s own One57, just down the street.

And now, Demler’s piano store will move to 211 West 58th Street, a five-story, 9,270-square-foot building which he bought from Benchmark Real Estate Group in a deal that closed today, Ronen Korin of Manhattan Connection, the sole broker on both deals, told The Real Deal.

It is unclear what Demler, who owned 232 West 58th Street for several years, originally paid for the property, but Korin indicated that it was a tiny fraction of how much he received from Extell.

“He was the last man standing for Extell,” Korin said.

scalziand Aug 29, 2013 1:03 AM

Wow, he came out $15MM ahead and ended up with a far nicer building.

pico44 Aug 29, 2013 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTEPman (Post 6246241)
I probably chose my words badly. I meant that NY may be screwed from getting that plateau breaking skyscraper that i'm sure everyone is looking forward to. A skyscraper of this height would be pretty significant, as it would most likely end up being over 1600ft in the end. Serious proposals like this aren't going to come around very often.....


I think every one of your posts is full of badly chosen words. Badly chosen words, sentences, paragraphs, thoughts and ideas. You need to work on that.

NYguy Aug 29, 2013 12:57 PM

^ I think he's just stating an opinion, it just came off the wrong way with the wrong words. It's obvious that we don't know what the future holds, we couldn't have predicted the towers we see rising now. Especially when only a few years ago, virtually nothing was rising in this part of town. New York is a world capital. People will always have big ideas on what to build in the City, and they won't always come from New York. So, while we can't predict anything, we really shouldn't be shocked whenever a new tallest is proposed for the City.

As far as this proposal goes, we're talking about a height reduction that may not even be. Will there be some disappointment? Yes, there always is whenever there is a height reduction. However, disappointment won't be on the scale of the 200 ft height chop of the Tower Verre, because there we had an actual design to know and love. Here, it's really just a number.

They won't release any designs until its final. It won't be like the Hudson Yards, where various renderings are released showing changes in design as the process works its way out.



Meanwhile, Nordstrom has taken it's ownership in the building, as was mentioned earlier...


http://www.law360.com/articles/46804...extell-project

Nordstrom Puts Down $102M To Own Space In Extell Project


By Kaitlin Ugolik
August 27, 2013


Quote:

Upscale clothing retailer Nordstrom Inc. has put a $102.5 million down payment on the space it plans to occupy in a mixed-use skyscraper planned by Extell Development Co., signing an agreement with Extell to to own the store as a condominium, Nordstrom announced Tuesday.

The new flagship store will occupy seven floors of the 88-story building when construction is completed, comprising about 285,000 square feet at the base of the retail, hotel and high-rise residential tower at 225 W. 57th St., just south of Central Park.

Nordstorm's floors will include the first five above-grade floors and two below, with street level entrances on W. 58th St., W. 57th St. and Broadway, according to the company.

"Nordstrom purchased the feel below a plane from Extell for an initial down payment of $102.5 million, with the remainder of the payments to be made in installments over time," Nordstrom said in a statement. "Once complete, Nordstrom will assume a condominium ownership of the store."

The deal comes after Extell recently finished assembling the project site with the purchase of the Beethoven Piano Building at 232 W. 58th St. for $25 million. The developer also obtained a $300 million from The Blackstone Group LP to replace an existing land loan with HSBC Bank PLC worth about $250 million, according to Nordstrom's Tuesday statement.

When the building at 225 W. 57th St. is completed, it will be one of the tallest buildings in Manhattan, and the world — taller than the 1,454-foot Empire State Building and almost as tall as the new One World Trade Center building.

As expected, the store will have openings on all 3 sides.


http://www.globest.com/news/12_679/n...nt-337003.html

Extell Issues Statement on Nordstrom


http://cdn.globest.com/media/newspic...arnett-new.jpg

Extell’s Gary Barnett plans to make 225 W. 57th St. one of the world's tallest buildings.


By Rayna Katz
August 27, 2013


Quote:

Extell and Nordstrom announced today that the high-end retailer is one step closer to bringing its first full-line store to New York City. The new flagship department store will comprise approximately 285,000 square feet at the base of a mixed-use, retail, hotel and high-rise residential tower still in its planning stages.

The department store will occupy seven floors, with street-level entrances on West 58th street, West 57th street, and Broadway. Nordstrom purchased the fee below a plane from Extell, for an initial down payment of $102.5 million, with the remainder of the payments to be made in installments over time. Once complete, Nordstrom will assume a condominium form of ownership of the store.

Additionally, Extell recently completed the assemblage of the development site with the acquisition of the Beethoven Piano building, located on 232 W. 58th St. Upon completion the landmark tower will be one of Manhattan’s tallest buildings.

UTEPman Aug 29, 2013 9:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pico44 (Post 6248340)
I think every one of your posts is full of badly chosen words. Badly chosen words, sentences, paragraphs, thoughts and ideas. You need to work on that.

Well, thinking doesn't seem to be one of your stronger attributes so I'll take your suggestion with the little regard it deserves.

Crawford Aug 30, 2013 2:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTEPman (Post 6248993)
Well, thinking doesn't seem to be one of your stronger attributes so I'll take your suggestion with the little regard it deserves.

UTEP, your initial comments were pretty silly, and you're not doing yourself any favors by insulting people who questioned your comments.

King DenCity Aug 30, 2013 3:04 AM

^why fight when u have urbanism?

Quote:

Originally Posted by King DenCity (Post 6245875)
I am not familiar with this firms designs so I was wondering what the general census is on styles likely to be used on this building? I am hoping for some modern take on the gothic style (a la tower verre), or maybe some glassed up version of art deco. So what do u guys think?

PS. as long as it's not some abstract random shape with rooms I won't die of a heart attack. :D

Anyone? don't make me resort to the all so awful... "personal research":yuck:
;)

UTEPman Aug 30, 2013 2:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6249336)
UTEP, your initial comments were pretty silly, and you're not doing yourself any favors by insulting people who questioned your comments.

I disagree that my comments were silly, although I rightfully had to address what I meant by NY possibly getting "screwed" in my previous comment. I believe I made the opinion more clear in my later post. And I never insulted anyone until the same was given to me.

Anyways, let me be clear as to why I think this tower may be the best hope (at least for a long while) at getting a 1500ft+ tower. I think we can all agree that NY doesn't build "look at me" towers like China and the Middle East. They build for demand and for good business. I still think that 1550ft+ towers will be rare for developed countries in the near future. It is expensive, and there is rarely a need for such a tower.

Now, NY has a lot of proposals in the pipeline but these are based on an assortment of future unknowns (none of which I care to get into).

This project seems to have all the right things going for it. It has the available FAR, the financing, a developer who wants to go big, and it's coming at the peak of a super-lux real estate boom. Things don't usually line up so nice for huge towers like this. This is simply the right tower at the right time.

That is why I made the comment I made. I'm sure others believe that these types of towers will be more common in the near future, and they're probably based on good logic as well. I certainly wouldn't insult anyone for having such an opinion, just don't insult me for my own on the matter.....

NYguy Aug 30, 2013 3:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTEPman (Post 6249661)
This project seems to have all the right things going for it. It has the available FAR, the financing, a developer who wants to go big, and it's coming at the peak of a super-lux real estate boom. Things don't usually line up so nice for huge towers like this. This is simply the right tower at the right time....

And yet, somehow in your logic you don't think that it can be replicated in Manhattan of all places. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. This tower isn't in the ground yet, though financing appears to be on the way. No one is insulting your logic, just pointing out why it doesn't make sense. If it's the right time for a tower like this, it can certainly be the right time for others. That's not to say that there will be, just that we can't say for certain there won't. That's just the way it is, and I think we've wasted enough energy in this thread hashing and rehashing it. It's a discussion better suited to this thread...http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=194273


Now that all the final pieces are in place, the development of this tower can move forward as planned, so let's focus on that.



http://chainstoreage.com/article/sky...imit-nordstrom

The Sky’s the Limit for Nordstrom


August 28, 2013
By Katherine Boccaccio




Quote:

The New York press has been all abuzz over the latest news about Nordstrom’s new Manhattan digs – that the West 57th Street space is officially Nordstrom’s.

The news first broke last June that the Seattle-based retailer, after a 20+-year search, had finally settled on a site for its first Manhattan store – in the base of a planned one million-sq.-ft skyscraper on 57th Street, east of Broadway. At the time, Nordstrom had agreed to buy its portion of the building – about 285,000 sq. ft. – with a slated move-in date of 2018.

Earlier this week, the New York Post reported that Nordstrom has paid $102.5 million to own its site at 225 W. 57th St., occupying the first seven floors of an 88-story residential condominium tower that will stretch past even the Empire State Building. The deal was propelled forward when New York real estate developer Gary Barnett (Extell Development) acquired the Beethoven piano building at 223 W. 58th St. for $25 million, securing the final piece to the planned skyscraper’s real estate puzzle.

According to the Post, that $100 million from Nordstrom – a down payment on what is said to be about a $300 million deal – will allow Barnett to launch development on the skyscraper; the plan is in design and has not been approved by the NYC buildings department.

The new Nordstrom will feature 175,000 sq. ft. of floor space, and is considered a really big deal among retail and real estate circles. A new department store in Manhattan is a rarity – and, if Nordstrom can continue its elevated service levels in the world’s biggest retail arena, the sky’s the limit. I, for one, will be watching the progress of this new store with great interest.

Crawford Aug 30, 2013 8:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTEPman (Post 6249661)
This project seems to have all the right things going for it. It has the available FAR, the financing, a developer who wants to go big, and it's coming at the peak of a super-lux real estate boom. Things don't usually line up so nice for huge towers like this. This is simply the right tower at the right time.

You're incorrect on all this, though.

The site doesn't have particularly unusual FAR (many Manhattan sites offer far more FAR), the developer isn't particularly unique (of all the proposed supertalls, this is the only current one by this developer), and there's no way to tell the peak of a boom until the boom has passed.

The point is, there are many, many sites for supertalls, and Manhattan has the economics to make supertalls work. There's no reason to think that this is a particlarly unique situation.


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:02 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.