The misconception here is that by not investing in critical infrastructure because of $$$ we now have $$$ for what we want and really need. For the naysayers it’s like they just won the lotto. Exactly what the politicians want to hear as it translates into votes.
I think the QEII proposal was just delayed, I wonder what that is about aside from not having the foresight to design it properly from the beginning.

I would bet the QE II was delayed for the same reason the Art gallery was scrapped. Escalating construction costs and perhaps a revamp to attempt to build a facility that can serve the Province for the next 60 Years.

I would like to believe this as well, however I believe that a lot of people (especially those in power who control cash flow) think a lot like Keith's post above. "Oh well, the interior has been changed from original, so it makes more sense to gut them out and leave the facades stuck on the outside of this new building so people can see what used to be there".

To me, whether there is public access to the interior has less importance than the original structure remaining intact. So if the interior has lost its original elements, but the exterior still retains most of its originality (i.e. intricate stonework still remains, structure in good condition, etc.), then I don't see anything wrong with upgrading interior elements to current standards while keeping the exterior original while retaining the original structure. IMHO, buildings like these enhance the public realm and keep the streetscape interesting. Facading is a second-best choice, as some elements are kept in the public realm, but everybody knows the only thing remaining of the building are the walls - it's like keeping a full-size snapshot so people remember what was there, but the building is, in effect, gone.

Yeah, that's fine, it comes down to an esthetic. You really like it, and I'm kind of "meh" about it. Neither is wrong, really, it's just an opinion on the esthetic that one prefers.

For me, the woodiness of it looks a little out of place for the location, and I'm also thinking that the final built structure never looks as good as the renderings (I've seen it time and time again on this forum). My fear is that it will age like the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic, which isn't great IMHO.

https://www.azuremagazine.com/wp-con...ure_AGNS_1.jpg
Source.

I too worry that it will be lost to the bare-bones practical people who think that all you need is a box in which to contain the artwork (or, perhaps not have any art at all because it "doesn't perform any practical function"), and that anything over and above a box with steel siding is too expensive and a waste of money. IMHO, the waterfront needs "great" not "good enough", and budget cutting practicality often ends with a boring, uninteresting result (that only looks good on the finance dept's Excel table)... or no result at all. Not to mention the fed money that would likely end up funding another city's project.

My post above addresses this.

If I were to adopt the same tone as your posts, I'd be saying that if we let the bean counters wrestle all the power to made decisions away from the rest of society, we would be living in a place that would have fantastic ledger sheets, but would be without a soul. IMHO, we are actually not far from that reality. You financial guys literally want to suck the soul out of the city for the sake of budgetary expediency, hoping that the rest of society doesn't realize what they are missing.

However, I don't want to take that tone, so I wont... :D

As far as ice surfaces on which kids participate in sports that involve skating, I think they are very important elements for any city. Getting kids involved in sports that involve physical activity is more important than ever in our society where kids spend more time online, or playing video games than ever. Plus the teamwork involved in sports gives kids skills that aren't easily learned elsewhere.

However, I can't speak to the cost of these arenas, as to whether there are less-costly alternatives that would perform the function well.

Cities are also more interesting when they specialize a bit. There are always budget constraints so it may only be possible to stand out in one or two areas. I'm not sure what this is for Halifax, but the waterfront could be it. Right now it is okay/good but it could be great.

Often the problem isn't that money is wasted but that the gains are less predictable, with the biggest gains being completely beyond the scope of bean counters. You will never get a company like say Apple or Google from applying bean counter principles with pristine balance sheets all the way, but in the end they actually were extremely lucrative and produce popular products. Cities aren't entirely unlike that.

Thankfully Halifax has a vibrant community of developers who are more ambitious and have a healthy risk appetite. That's been the saving grace making up for the mediocre municipal/provincial plans.

What are you talking about? I said no such thing.


This is an excellent point. Even in at the time it was built the MMA looked like a prototypical provincial low-bid building project with its uninspired design and finish choices. The fact that it has received little updating in the decades since means it sticks out like a sore thumb now.


It is not an either/or choice. You have long read my posts here (as referenced above) about how the province's low-bid mentality has led to some truly awful buildings. The proposal for the gallery went way too far in the other direction as a means of pandering towards a group that it seems necessary to appease these days in all sorts of ways. The result was a rather ugly and expensive building IMO but that does not mean that an attractive and functional building could not be constructed either here or elsewhere for considerably less. It is the Queen Judith library syndrome all over again.

Using that as a reference, it was constructed less than 10 years ago and from various reports cost about $60 mil. Why is this twice or 3 times as much? There has certainly been inflation in the construction world, but that much?

Here's a thought: maybe the province can expropriate it from the city and turn it into an art gallery. :D

I know its not related to this posit. But, has anybody noticed the massive public pool complex being built on the South Common? How did this happen? And where did this money come from? St. Pat's property sale?
Not that I think its not needed. But in contrast to/with the new Art Gallery it seems to be lack of coordination of objectives between levels of government. Go figure.
And don't get me started on the expensive mess made of SGR.

Well, it would seem we won't be losing this view soon:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...97e92746_b.jpg20220728_150840 by AJ Forsythe, on Flickr

The MMA was tarted-up about 5 or 6 years ago I think and it appears to be in good repair. However, it does look more and more out of place as other waterfront buildings/attractions become more grand in scale.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1dbf0fd6_b.jpg20220728_141034 by AJ Forsythe, on Flickr

Building public communal swimming pools in this age of public concern about disease and mysterious viruses seems foolhardy at best, even setting aside the typical maintenance nightmares most pools soon become. Therefore this is right in HRM's wheelhouse. :rolleyes: Putting such a facility on the Common where access for those not living nearby is dubious makes one wonder as well.

As said above, HRM has more money than they know what to do with these days. They decided to replace the ice cream shack at Graham's Grove a nd now there is structural steel going up. God knows what that will be used for aside from ice cream.

This is not a surprise, not at all, predicted it would happen when the winning bid was announced. The timing of the project was all wrong due to obvious circumstances, the building design and location was not... optimum... and I'll leave it at that.

There are many on this forum who want to see Halifax/Dartmouth grow with the best interest of the population in mind, first and foremost. Unfortunately, there are others who's interests are tied to developers, engineering firms, architectural firms, financial firms, so they tend to be motivated by self interest. They would like nothing better than to see this city become a mini Hong Kong, damn the cost to the community, to the taxpayers and the natural beauty all around us.

In the immortal words of Paul Simon: "Slow down, you're moving too fast, you've got to make the morning last..."

Ever hear of chlorine? The public pool is needed and a great investment.

I have never been a fan of communal bathtubs.

In previous posts about the Dennis Bldg, you did infer as such, and with that context it wouldn't be a stretch to think that you would apply the same principles to the buildings we're talking about now. Otherwise, why would you even challenge my point that these are two of the best examples that exist downtown (the Bank of Nova Scotia building and the Dominion Public building also being in the same 'club', BTW)?

Anyhow, my comments were written with tongue firmly in cheek, as I actually don't have disdain for my financially-centred friends. ;) No offence intended.

Apples and oranges. The Provincial Bldg renos many years ago were done on the cheap by the Province, so it retains many subpar features. It isn't a bad looking building outside. As I said I have limited experience with the Art Gallery but the occupants were using its condition as a reason they needed a new facility. But the Dennis was a simply horrible building. I make no apologies for anything I have posted on that subject.

No apologies expected, nor will I change my opinion that a better effort should have been put forth to save more than the facades of the Dennis and Acadian Recorder bldgs. But yet again I'm on the wrong side of it.

Hey, how about that art gallery proposal? :haha:

The Hold is approaching 2 years. It ain't going to get cheaper to build...

I would not be surprised to see this on hold until the new QE II is well underway if not substantially completed. Public finances are entering a period of NO!