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Harrison Aug 16, 2022 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9703105)
I was on Flair once before COVID. It was a weird day I needed to make a meeting in Edmonton and everything that would have worked was booked.

Back then they were flying 737-400 and did not have modern aircraft. I assumed it was due to the old less reliable aircraft. Clearly my assumption was wrong.

I would try to avoid them.

FWIW I've flown Flair 5 times this year so far and each time they've used a new 737-MAX aircraft, which is quite comfortable. I haven't had an issue with them other than one flight cancellation that they rebooked for me after I called them, but cancellations have happened to all Canadian airlines this year.

Calfan12 Aug 17, 2022 12:00 AM

Looks like Eurowings for Summer 2023 on Calgary YYC - Frankfurt FRA route plans to operate 5x weekly & Halifax YHZ - Frankfurt FRA 3x weekly both on the Airbus A330. *Though it's subject to change* .

EUROWINGS DISCOVER NS23 CANADA PRELIMINARY OPERATIONS

Frankfurt – Calgary eff 04JUN23 Increase from 4 weekly in NS22 to 5 weekly (Seasonal service in 2023 begins as 3 weekly from 02MAY23. This route originally scheduled as 5 weekly in NS22, but later reduced to 4)
4Y072/LH4354 FRA1530 – 1715YYC 333 267
4Y072/LH4354 FRA1530 – 1715YYC 332 14

4Y073/LH4355 YYC1845 – 1225+1FRA 333 267
4Y073/LH4355 YYC1845 – 1225+1FRA 332 14

Frankfurt – Halifax eff 02JUN23 Increase from 2 weekly in NS22 to 3 weekly (This route originally scheduled as 3 weekly in NS22, but later reduced to 2)
4Y074/LH4398 FRA1550 – 1810YHZ 333 15
4Y074/LH4398 FRA1550 – 1810YHZ 332 3

4Y075/LH4399 YHZ1940 – 0720+1FRA 333 15
4Y075/LH4399 YHZ1940 – 0720+1FRA 332 3

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220816-4yns23ca

manny_santos Aug 17, 2022 7:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9703597)
WESTJET NW22 DOMESTIC FREQUENCY VARIATIONS

Calgary – London ON Reduce from 7 to 3 weekly

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220815-wsnw22ca

Surprised about this reduction - I was on this flight last week and it was sold out. Currently it is the only flight from YXU that goes somewhere other than Toronto.

YXU just can't catch a break.

hollywoodcory Aug 17, 2022 8:31 PM

WS adding YWG-LAX effective Oct. 31 3x weekly

WS1314 YWG 07:00 - 08:50 LAX 73W 156
WS1315 LAX 09:35 - 15:07 YWG 73W 156

hehehe Aug 18, 2022 1:33 AM

Great news! I think it's safe to assume that there'll be more announcements/changes in the coming weeks.

Calfan12 Aug 18, 2022 8:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9705146)
WS adding YWG-LAX effective Oct. 31 3x weekly

WS1314 YWG 07:00 - 08:50 LAX 73W 156
WS1315 LAX 09:35 - 15:07 YWG 73W 156

Yep
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...eles-1.6553777

It’s nice that Winnipeg YWG is a getting a new few times weekly flights to Los Angeles LAX.

But WestJet Calgary YYC & Vancouver YVR - Los Angeles LAX flights likely won’t be effected by it that much.

Although Edmonton YEG- Los Angeles route on WS might be (if) YWG - Los Angeles LAX route has demand, as YEG- LAX market is smaller compared to YYC / YVR to LAX are larger.

Calfan12 Aug 18, 2022 9:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny_santos (Post 9705030)
Surprised about this reduction - I was on this flight last week and it was sold out. Currently it is the only flight from YXU that goes somewhere other than Toronto.

YXU just can't catch a break.

Not surprised, as WestJet 737 planes has more demand doing North- South flights to sun destinations during the Winters, between YYC - Mexico, YYC - California or YYC - Florida as good examples.

Passenger demand for YYC - London YXU Ontario is likely less busy in the Winter compared to the Summers.

Makes sense to consolidate most of it through Toronto YYZ.

peytol Aug 18, 2022 1:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9705611)
Yep
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...eles-1.6553777

It’s nice that Winnipeg YWG is a getting a new few times weekly flights to Los Angeles LAX.

But WestJet Calgary YYC & Vancouver YVR - Los Angeles LAX flights likely won’t be effected by it that much.

Although Edmonton YEG- Los Angeles route on WS might be (if) YWG - Los Angeles LAX route has demand, as YEG- LAX market is smaller compared to YYC / YVR to LAX are larger.

Why would YWG-LAX have any effect on YEG-LAX?

I would be there are zero connections from YWG on that flight since it leaves yeg at 815 am.

Zmonkey Aug 18, 2022 1:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9705613)
Not surprised, as WestJet 737 planes has more demand doing North- South flights to sun destinations during the Winters, between YYC - Mexico, YYC - California or YYC - Florida as good examples.

Passenger demand for YYC - London YXU Ontario is likely less busy in the Winter compared to the Summers.

Makes sense to consolidate most of it through Toronto YYZ.

While passenger demand does for for domestic routes through the winter, thought this would stick around since YYC will connect quite a few people heading between London and Vancouver, Edmonton, Victora and SK. Wonder if this is due to lack of planes over winter or if demand really does fall that much.

esquire Aug 18, 2022 2:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peytol (Post 9705694)
Why would YWG-LAX have any effect on YEG-LAX?

I would be there are zero connections from YWG on that flight since it leaves yeg at 815 am.

8:15 is OK but the YWG flight leaves at 7:00 which sucks for leisure travel considering you need to get to the terminal extra early to pre-clear US customs.

I remember taking my family on a nonstop flight to FLL a few years back that left YWG at 7:00 and it made for a miserable day of travel... would have been far more pleasant in hindsight to have left at a more sensible time like 10:00 and just connected in MSP, ORD or YYZ.

peytol Aug 18, 2022 2:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9705720)
8:15 is OK but the YWG flight leaves at 7:00 which sucks for leisure travel considering you need to get to the terminal extra early to pre-clear US customs.

I remember taking my family on a nonstop flight to FLL a few years back that left YWG at 7:00 and it made for a miserable day of travel... would have been far more pleasant in hindsight to have left at a more sensible time like 10:00 and just connected in MSP, ORD or YYZ.

This is scheduled like this so the plane can do a PHX turn or something like that in the same day I'd imagine. Personally I'd take a early morning direct and get in at a decent hour any day over a connection. Luckily now people have the option for whatever they like in ywg now.

manny_santos Aug 18, 2022 5:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmonkey (Post 9705713)
While passenger demand does for for domestic routes through the winter, thought this would stick around since YYC will connect quite a few people heading between London and Vancouver, Edmonton, Victora and SK. Wonder if this is due to lack of planes over winter or if demand really does fall that much.

Good questions. My concern with consolidation at YYZ is that Pearson simply doesn't have the capacity to handle the traffic.

YYCguys Aug 20, 2022 3:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny_santos (Post 9705962)
Good questions. My concern with consolidation at YYZ is that Pearson simply doesn't have the capacity to handle the traffic.

And now Canada Jetlines has been approved to fly out of Pearson! With Pearson’s current unsavoury reputation for being the worst (or second worst) airport in the world to fly in/out of, why would CJ want to enter the fray?!?! Give Hamilton some love for goodness sake!

zahav Aug 20, 2022 5:01 PM

Is YYZ really that space constrained? Is it just T3 that's overcapacity, or is T1 at capacity too? I could understand T3 being too small, but T1 is still so new, hard to imagine they've maxxed it out already?

zahav Aug 20, 2022 5:10 PM

I posted this in the YVR forum, but thought to repost here:

WS has really been to the butcher shop with their winter schedules, damn. They are also really all over the place with their daily frequencies, to an extant not really seen before. Some routes will have one daily flight, and then one day two daily, then no flights the next day, then 4 flights in one day. Very haphazard.

Interesting item... This winter, WS will operate more weekly flights from YVR than from YYZ, so YVR will be their 2nd biggest hub in terms of # of departures (I haven't finished calculating YYCs departures, but they are far and away the #1 by all metrics so doesn't really matter lol). YYZ would likely still have more pax #s because while Encore got decimated at YYZ, they are still quite strong at YVR, as well as WS Link. But these are smaller aircraft, so assuming load factors are the same for YYZ and YVR routes, YYZ would carry more traffic due to more mainline there. But YVR hasn't seen more WS departures than YYZ since 2003, just before they moved their eastern hub from YHM to YYZ. The WS frequency updates have been so eratic lately, it's hard to follow just going off the articles. But I got the sense WS was chopping a lot of YYZ routes, so decided to actually do the math. And sure enough, they have fallen enough for YVR to have more weekly departures (albeit barely, 426 vs. 407 by my count). I could definitely have made errors, but I don't think the overall result would change.

By sector, YVR is now way ahead of YYZ in terms of deomestic flights. They have the same amount of transborder flights, but in this category, YVR actually has more mainline (they are 100% mainline on transborder ops, while YYZ has 3x weekly to BNA on Encore).

For international, it's no competition, YYZ's 88 flights vs. YVR's 36. No surprise at all here, since WS bases it's entire Carribean operation out of YYZ. So there's tons of once weekly, twice weekly, frequencies to more niche destinations (ie. Cozumel). But it all adds up, so they are king of international ops.

But overall, YVR will have more flights per week. Does anyone know in terms of # of flights, does AC operate more from YVR or YUL? Both cities have a lot of regional destinations, and a decent amount of US ops. YUL would lead in international, same as YYZ does for WS, but I'd be curious whether YVR or YUL have more weekly departures on AC. Maybe that'll be my Saturday project lol #spreadsheetsaturdays

hehehe Aug 20, 2022 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9707746)
I posted this in the YVR forum, but thought to repost here:

WS has really been to the butcher shop with their winter schedules, damn. They are also really all over the place with their daily frequencies, to an extant not really seen before. Some routes will have one daily flight, and then one day two daily, then no flights the next day, then 4 flights in one day. Very haphazard.

Interesting item... This winter, WS will operate more weekly flights from YVR than from YYZ, so YVR will be their 2nd biggest hub in terms of # of departures (I haven't finished calculating YYCs departures, but they are far and away the #1 by all metrics so doesn't really matter lol). YYZ would likely still have more pax #s because while Encore got decimated at YYZ, they are still quite strong at YVR, as well as WS Link. But these are smaller aircraft, so assuming load factors are the same for YYZ and YVR routes, YYZ would carry more traffic due to more mainline there. But YVR hasn't seen more WS departures than YYZ since 2003, just before they moved their eastern hub from YHM to YYZ. The WS frequency updates have been so eratic lately, it's hard to follow just going off the articles. But I got the sense WS was chopping a lot of YYZ routes, so decided to actually do the math. And sure enough, they have fallen enough for YVR to have more weekly departures (albeit barely, 426 vs. 407 by my count). I could definitely have made errors, but I don't think the overall result would change.

By sector, YVR is now way ahead of YYZ in terms of deomestic flights. They have the same amount of transborder flights, but in this category, YVR actually has more mainline (they are 100% mainline on transborder ops, while YYZ has 3x weekly to BNA on Encore).

For international, it's no competition, YYZ's 88 flights vs. YVR's 36. No surprise at all here, since WS bases it's entire Carribean operation out of YYZ. So there's tons of once weekly, twice weekly, frequencies to more niche destinations (ie. Cozumel). But it all adds up, so they are king of international ops.

But overall, YVR will have more flights per week. Does anyone know in terms of # of flights, does AC operate more from YVR or YUL? Both cities have a lot of regional destinations, and a decent amount of US ops. YUL would lead in international, same as YYZ does for WS, but I'd be curious whether YVR or YUL have more weekly departures on AC. Maybe that'll be my Saturday project lol #spreadsheetsaturdays

With regard to the erratic frequencies, I think there'll still be a lot of changes made till winter rolls around. YYC (and I think YVR?) got a lot of extra frequencies in November after they already did their presser about the winter schedule, and they also announced YWG-LAX a couple of days back instead of with the presser.

whatnext Aug 20, 2022 6:57 PM

Article from the Globe on yet more buck-passing on who is to blame for airport delays. I found the graph showing YYZ and YUL leading the world in delays May-Jul interesting. Halifax is the only other Canadian airport to make the top 20:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...irport-delays/

thenoflyzone Aug 20, 2022 6:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9707746)
Does anyone know in terms of # of flights, does AC operate more from YVR or YUL? Both cities have a lot of regional destinations, and a decent amount of US ops. YUL would lead in international, same as YYZ does for WS, but I'd be curious whether YVR or YUL have more weekly departures on AC. Maybe that'll be my Saturday project lol #spreadsheetsaturdays

I had done this exercise pre-COVID. Picked a week in peak summer 2019, and from memory, YUL was slightly ahead.

Have no idea what the numbers are now, but wouldn’t be surprised if it’s similar.

Denscity Aug 20, 2022 7:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9707805)
Article from the Globe on yet more buck-passing on who is to blame for airport delays. I found the graph showing YYZ and YUL leading the world in delays May-Jul interesting. Halifax is the only other Canadian airport to make the top 20:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...irport-delays/

I think YYZ and YUL should be asking Vancouver how they're NOT in a total mess.

nname Aug 20, 2022 7:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9707746)
But overall, YVR will have more flights per week. Does anyone know in terms of # of flights, does AC operate more from YVR or YUL? Both cities have a lot of regional destinations, and a decent amount of US ops. YUL would lead in international, same as YYZ does for WS, but I'd be curious whether YVR or YUL have more weekly departures on AC. Maybe that'll be my Saturday project lol #spreadsheetsaturdays

If you going to do it by hand, then that will be a huge project.

Here is the data of approx weekly frequency before the pandemic. Not this is the planned schedule about 2-3 months before the actual operation date, so this does not reflect the actual number of flights operated:

Code:

        YYZ        YVR        YUL        YYC
S18        2871        1288        1267        810
W18        2398        1158        1165        666
S19        2731        1301        1282        664
W19        2351        1172        1171        592
S20*        2576        1305        1237        668

Basically YVR is pretty much the same as YUL... one may have more flight than the other depending on which week you picked. All data uses the week of mid/late March or mid/late August. S20 was gathered after the pandemic starts (Apr or May 2020) but before AC got a chance to fully remove flights from their summer schedule.

I think YUL have about 100 flights more than YVR after the pandemic due to Asia Pacific shutdown, but after AC slash frequency due to the airport mess, it means both airports are pretty much even again...


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