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nomarandlee May 18, 2015 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 7030772)
I'm down on Toronto because they couldn't make it work as a private investment. And unlike Chicago, Toronto doesn't already have a subway line going to the heart of the terminal complex. How is the Blue Line inadequate again? What's wrong with it that we need to spend hundreds of millions on a competing service?

As Mr D noted before, an express train from Union Station to O'Hare Transfer is not necessarily any faster than a local Blue Line trip, because most downtown travelers aren't staying near Union Station and at the O'Hare end, you'd have to make a slow transfer to the People Mover. If you're a Chicago resident and you live on the North Side, the express train is borderline useless to you.
.

How is the Blue Line inadequate? Well, the fact that is stops 18 times and that travelers have to worry about putting their bags in crowded aisles and with residents having to deal with moving over and passed bags of airport travelers.

Is it absolutely "needed"? No, I guess no. Few things are absolutely needed. Was Heathrow express really needed? Is high spreed rail in the Midwest "really needed"? However I think its a good value proposition if express trains are seen as a real asset to business travelers and conventionares who do business in Chicago.

Most travelers who are doing business or staying downtown will still have to likely catch a cab/bus/van regardless if it is from a blue line station in the Loop or from Union Station. And as far as the O'Hare end most travelers will still have a lengthy walk to Terminal 1/2 or have to take to ATS to T5 anyway. Only a minority of the travelers are going straight up to T2. Maybe in the future a spur of a mile can be built like they are also doing in Toronto that can either line up next to the ATS Terminal 1 station.

Maybe if you are live in Logan Square or Albany Park then an O'Hare express does nothing for you but then you still have a relatively easy and painless Blue Line alternative for you. That doesn't negate the fact that a Union express would still make a good deal of sense for a lot of downtown travelers and even south and west side residents.

Quote:

The CrossRail plan is a little better - because it's not a premium express service, airport workers could use it, and the long term plan calls for a new tunnel under the airfield with a station at the terminals
You don't think heavily discounted fares for airport workers could be on the table?

I agree that CrossRail plan is better. However I thought what we are talking about are relatively the same. Both end and begin at Union Station and use current freight tracks for the line.

At least on the Crossrail website they leave it vague where the terminus of such a station at O'Hare would be. They seem to leave open the options of an ATS Parking Lot F terminus or the hypothetical tunnel route going to eventual West Terminal.

I don't know how you could say you are concerned about cost and then bemoan the fact that we don't wait for very expensive new tunneling under O'Hare servicing either a new West Terminal (which I am skeptical will ever come to fruition let alone useful) or some new spur that goes underground to each of the Terminals individually. In such a scenario we are talking the differences between 10/100's of millions and well into the billions of dollars. Maybe if there is a Western Terminal ever built it would be worth doing but I don't think we need to wait till that day long into the future to warrant express service.

nomarandlee May 18, 2015 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiguy123 (Post 7030924)
Are there quicker fixes that can be brought to life? For example, I know the new L cars are capable of traveling 70mph....and the max on the blue line right now is 55. Are there segments in the highway median portion that can be tweaked for maximum speed? There are quite a few long stretches when you get close O'Hare where I think this could work.

I know this isn't as revolutionary but could cut maybe 5 minutes or so off the total travel time.

That is a good question. Although it wouldn't be "express service" what about upgraded service along the current blue line. Would it be possibly just to add say one or two retrofitted "train cars" with nice seating, better suspension, luggage racks etc.? All for say a $10 ticket. Train cars that wouldn't open and close at every stop along with all the other cars. I don't know if that would be against safety violations or not.

ardecila May 19, 2015 4:25 AM

^ Perhaps. It's not a bad idea. The platform at Clark/Lake is super long. You could also do an intermediary stop at Logan Square for the northsiders, the platform is long enough there as well. The bigger problem is how you add/remove the cars to an existing 8-car train, and where that takes place (probably at/around the Racine stop).

k1052 May 22, 2015 3:13 PM

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/05/...-car-facility/

Ground broken on the CONRAC/intermodal facility. EIS 2018.

F1 Tommy May 22, 2015 5:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 7035847)
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/05/...-car-facility/

Ground broken on the CONRAC/intermodal facility. EIS 2018.

Great to see they will have a place to park all the rental Cars and already have more runways to land the airplanes. Now all they need is more space to park the A380's and the international flights. Chicago is really dropping the ball on that.

sentinel May 22, 2015 7:03 PM

I found this online - it's pretty massive.

http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/fil...0Schematic.jpg

http://www.dot.gov/tifia/financed-pr...t-use-facility

k1052 May 23, 2015 3:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1 Tommy (Post 7036072)
Great to see they will have a place to park all the rental Cars and already have more runways to land the airplanes. Now all they need is more space to park the A380's and the international flights. Chicago is really dropping the ball on that.

Presumably the T5 expansion (aka T6) and the L concourse expansion/T4 projects will be part of the upcoming negotiations with the carriers. Being able to keep A380s out out ORD is a bargaining chip for the city at this point and not something we really need anyhow.

Saw an interesting concept of how they intend to wrap a new terminal or expanded L concourse around the existing heating plant and just move the cooling towers a while back.

Randomguy34 May 23, 2015 6:20 PM

It looks like the "future collateral develop temporary airport parking" will be some form of TOD in the future. What are some of the possibilities that could be built there?

ardecila May 23, 2015 8:03 PM

^ Office or hotel, most likely, just like the buildings on the other side of Zemke Blvd (which is actually a corner of Des Plaines). It's outside of the RPZ so they could build 10-12 stories.

If/when an airport express train is run from Union Station to O'Hare Transfer, this would be quite an attractive site for development. Of course, I guarantee when the CONRAC opens, the city will put up some weird barriers to stop people from walking through the garage from Metra to the people mover. They couldn't even get it right at Midway with the Orange Line.

F1 Tommy May 24, 2015 3:36 PM

"Being able to keep A380s out out ORD is a bargaining chip for the city at this point and not something we really need anyhow."



Well several international carriers at O'Hare including British Airways don't agree with you. This is a slap in the face, as ORD is the only major international airport in the USA that has no gates to handle the A380.

k1052 May 24, 2015 4:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1 Tommy (Post 7037659)
"Being able to keep A380s out out ORD is a bargaining chip for the city at this point and not something we really need anyhow."



Well several international carriers at O'Hare including British Airways don't agree with you. This is a slap in the face, as ORD is the only major international airport in the USA that has no gates to handle the A380.

The future clearly lies with the new wide body twin engine aircraft now. Just look at the order books for the A380 or 747 versus them. ORD needs T6 for more wide body international capacity and T4 to bring in some more gates for the low cost carriers to help balance out an increasingly consolidated legacy carrier presence.

Using the twin specters of welcoming Emirates A380s with open arms and the massive Western Terminal may well help us get what we really need.

F1 Tommy May 24, 2015 4:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 7037679)
The future clearly lies with the new wide body twin engine aircraft now. Just look at the order books for the A380 or 747 versus them. ORD needs T6 for more wide body international capacity and T4 to bring in some more gates for the low cost carriers to help balance out an increasingly consolidated legacy carrier presence.

Using the twin specters of welcoming Emirates A380s with open arms and the massive Western Terminal may well help us get what we really need.

Although I do agree with you in general that is an over simplification of what is happening. Some airports will still need larger A380/7478i type aircraft(ORD included), and everyday we don't have them means lost revenue, although we do get LH 7478i's for passenger service daily. Also the pilot shortage may push for larger aircraft again(yes pilot shortage).


The 777/787 and A350 are the future but the A380 and maybe the 747-8 will survive and will still be needed for years to come.

nomarandlee May 24, 2015 4:15 PM

The great mystery to me is what will come first. Will it be a new terminal 4 & 6 or will it be a whole new Western terminal in order to appease the West Suburban stakeholders that finally submitted to expansion.

One is obviously more financially and logistically prudent then the other but will politics come before for practicality. The western terminal can always be built in 2040 or year 2050 if need be.

N830MH May 26, 2015 1:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomarandlee (Post 7037684)
The great mystery to me is what will come first. Will it be a new terminal 4 & 6 or will it be a whole new Western terminal in order to appease the West Suburban stakeholders that finally submitted to expansion.

One is obviously more financially and logistically prudent then the other but will politics come before for practicality. The western terminal can always be built in 2040 or year 2050 if need be.

It won't be wait for years of 2040 or 2050. Why we don't build a new terminal immediately. Let's do it!

F1 Tommy May 28, 2015 1:54 PM

A350 Demo will be at ORD July 17th and 18th. It will also be displayed at the Oshkosh EAA airshow in late July. If you have never been to the EAA event it is huge and worth a visit.

sentinel May 28, 2015 4:43 PM

Over at Curbed Chicago - Can we just start calling this new facility Terminal 6 already? Or Terminal 4? :D

http://cdn.cstatic.net/images/gridfs...nner%20F01.jpg

http://cdn.cstatic.net/images/gridfs...View%20f01.jpg

http://cdn.cstatic.net/images/gridfs...View%20f01.jpg

http://cdn.cstatic.net/images/gridfs...View%20f01.jpg

http://cdn.cstatic.net/images/gridfs...time%20f01.jpg

http://chicago.curbed.com/archives/2...renderings.php

nomarandlee May 28, 2015 6:54 PM

I'm still not seeing any evidence of a separated enclosed pedestrian walkway (with a moving walkway given the distance) from the West side of the complex (ATS stations) to the East side of the complex (potential Amtrak/Metra/O'Hare express).

Unless there is one that I am not seeing or the idea to ever extend the ATS in the future wasn't ever contemplated. I fear I am seeing a very bad missed opportunity. I don't know if planners just find the idea of HSR/Metra ridership/or O'Hare express connections at that spot EVER to be on the whole unrealistic or what.

It's baffling that I feel like I am seeing the the beginning of Midway/CTA planning integration error part II.

ardecila May 29, 2015 12:11 AM

^ There is at least an excuse here in Metra's intransigence. They have no clue and no desire to think critically about where new service is needed or useful. I'm not sure the Chicago Dept. of Aviation has the ability to strong-arm Metra, and I'm not sure they were willing to accept a more expensive or less efficient parking layout to bring the ATS up next to Metra, in hopes that at some hazy date in the future, Metra would magically turn into a competent railroad like Deutsche Bahn.

The Midway situation was explainable by the fact that A) the line was designed to be extended down the Belt Railway corridor to Ford City, and B) it had to go at the south end of the railyard.

N830MH May 29, 2015 5:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentinel (Post 7042469)
Over at Curbed Chicago - Can we just start calling this new facility Terminal 6 already? Or Terminal 4? :D

Yes, please do.

Folks, please stop discussing about RCC facility.

Let's discussions about a new terminal 4 & 6, but not let talking about RCC.

Please move forward to discussions about a new entire terminal 4 & 6.

nomarandlee May 29, 2015 3:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N830MH (Post 7043351)
Yes, please do.

Folks, please stop discussing about RCC facility.

Let's discussions about a new terminal 4 & 6, but not let talking about RCC.

Please move forward to discussions about a new entire terminal 4 & 6.

WTH?! The new rental car facility is a major new developments and integral to the future of the airport, its logistics, and operations. It is also an opportunity, or in this case a missed opportunity, about the direction of how the airport will be integrated with other future means of transportation from regional rail to long distance and the rest of the Chicago region and beyond. In essence it's about the long term vitality of the airport itself.

It is an ACTUAL development that is happening now unlike any new terminals which are strictly theoretical at this point. So frankly this deserves some analysis, groaning, speculation whatever you want to call it and this is exactly the place to do it despite what you want to read or don't want to read.


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