my favorite american urban history book of all time. in fact, i should re-read it for the 3rd time. the thoroughness of the greater context of chicago within the u.s., and more specifically the geography, economics, and history of the midwest is spectacular. it pokes around the edges of st. louis of course, you can see the historical/geographical outline of that city just by how thorough the book is regarding chicago, and the greater context of that city within the midwest.

i guess whatever it is that some people think makes chicago not midwestern stems from a confusion regarding the same batch of contemporary economic/cultural distortions that apply to all highly global and globally connected places, with varying effects.

As an Armenian, i can chime in here. There are 3 distinct groups of Armenians in the diaspora here in the LA area. Armenians from Armenia and Russia, Armenians from Iran and Armenians from the Levant area... You'll see the Armenians from Iran mostly in Glendale, Burbank and the foothills, Armenians from Russia and Armenian in the Hollywoods (North, East and Hollywood Proper) and Armenians from the Levant regions in Pasadena and the valley... This is in general terms of course. Also, id dispute that 70% of Armenians speak Russian or understand it. Much less than that

It’s clear that “ethnic white” was always meant to mean Irish Catholic, Italian, Greek, Hungarian, Albanian, and Slavic. In which case, there’s really nothing to debate about. But the inclusion of Jews really muddies the water since Ashkenazi Jews don’t identify with any particular European ethnicity (e.g. Russian, Polish) and view Israel as their motherland. If you don’t include Jews, then you can’t include Israelis/Hebrew speakers. And if you do, there’s no reason to exclude Armenians and Persians.

I’d really love to see the number of Armenian, Persian, Russian, Hebrew, and Yiddish speakers with the addition of Glendale, Burbank, Pasadena, West Hollywood, Beverly Hills, and Calabasas. I bet the number of Armenian speakers in Glendale is like half of LA city’s total. Of all the Armenians I’ve come across here in LA, the vast majority of them were proud full-Armenians and could speak the language.

Chicago is every bit as Midwestern as NYC is Northeastern.

Yep.

Succinct and truthful.

New York? I think NYC is like 50% of the state's population.

EDIT: too easy to verify to not include hard numbers:

NYC - NY population: 44%
Chi - IL population: 21%

And for reference, some other major cities - state pops:

Bos - Mass: 10%
Den - Colorado: 11%
Sea - Wash: 10%
ATL - GA: 5%

Well put.

NYC is almost half of NYS's population, but I think Chicago Metro still has a much larger share of Illinois than NYC area counties do of NYS. But yeah, NYC is probably the only major city in the country that accounts for nearly half of the population of the state where it's located.

Obviously comparing city propers makes no sense. "Chicago" is Chicagoland, which absolutely dominates Illinois.

Most of NYC suburbia is in other states, so it could be argued that NYC most dominates NJ, moreso than NY (ie a higher share of NJ is in NY metro than NY).

Docere was almost certainly talking about metro area, not city proper.

the illinois counties of chicago's metro area constituted 67.8% of illinois' total population as of the 2010 census.

i don't know how the new york counties of NYC's metro area stack up against the state's overall population.


that said, illinois isn't #1 in this measure. rhode island is the most dominated because the whole damn state is included in providence's metro area.

massachussets/boston might be above illinois too, along with hawaii/honolulu.

but illinois might be the only geographically "large" state to have more than 2/3 of it's population in a single metro area.

Chicago Metro (without removing IN counties) - IL: 75%
NYC + (only) LI - NY: 83%

Including other metro NY counties would probably push it upwards of 90% of the state pop?

This makes no sense. NYC has around 8.4 million residents. LI has around 2.9 million residents. NY State has around 19.6 residents.

The overall share of NY State population in NY metro is probably roughly comparable, or a tad lower, than Illinois population in Chicagoland. Westchester has just under 1 million, and the other counties north of the Bronx have another 800k or so.

But that wasn't my point. You can't determine share by city proper. Places like MA and GA are absolutely dominated by cities with small city proper populations. MA is basically Boston and then second home area/college towns for New Yorkers (western MA). GA has this gigantic expanding blob of sprawl called Atlanta, even if over 90% of the sprawl isn't in the city proper.

your math makes no sense.

the 12 new york state counties of NYC's metro area constitute 68.0% of new york state's population.

that's nearly identical to metro chicago's 67.8% share of illinois.

Ah, I must have gotten the wrong numbers for LI population--it was upwards of 7M according to wiki.

Regardless, NY Metro (within NY state) and Chicago Metro (within IL, but probably even including IN population) roughly dominate the same population share of their respective states.

Secondly, you can definitely use city proper in this (admittedly silly) exercise, because we're talking "state domination" in terms of political and social sensibilities. There are vast swaths of any metro area (especially less dense ones) that absolutely would not share the same urban perspectives as residents in the cities proper.

Thirdly, my original point that "no city dominates their respective state like Chicago" is incorrect, since NYC certainly does, still stands -- with or without the faulty number I grabbed from wikipedia.

Technically, LI does have well over 7 million, due to Brooklyn and Queens. But no one considers them to be LI, at least not since the 19th century.

Using the 5 boroughs + Nassau and Suffolk (Long Island) + Westchester, Rockland, and Orange (northern NY counties), it totals about 67% of NYS population (those are core MSA counties). Adding CSA counties (Dutchess, Putnam, Ulster) pushes it up to 69%.

Hmm, I thought Chicagoland would make up more of Illinois. That's interesting.

I thought more than NY and Chicago would take up large shares of their states' populations--Denver, Seattle, Georgia, etc.

Las Vegas has the highest share of state population at >70%