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-   -   [Halifax] Hospitals & Healthcare (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228001)

Keith P. Apr 29, 2017 2:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phalanx (Post 7789106)
Regardless of demographics, whether it's in the city or out of the city, Bayers Lake is a terrible choice.

For those who are pedestrian oriented, there are only 2 bus routes that service it right now, and there are very few, if any concessions for pedestrians (no sidewalks off the main section of Chain Lake Dr, very few crosswalks etc). I work in an office near the BL Access Nova Scotia, and use the bus to get there. Every day there are hordes of people that have to dodge traffic to get across the street to get to and from this super inconvenient location. Again, no sidewalks, no crosswalks. If they're going to build it there, then they should be responsible for all the infrastructure required to make it accessible to people who don't have access to cars, either. Dedicated buses, sidewalks, etc.

Also, it's embarrassingly badly littered out there. It looks awful. Very few public garbage receptacles, two recycling facilities, a general lack of care... I mean, it's pretty bad everywhere, unfortunately, but especially in BL.

All of what you decry is the fault of HRM.

They created the BLIP.

They allowed it to become a retail big-box development.

They failed to upgrade the road infrastructure.

They failed to build sidewalks.

They failed to provide adequate transit.

They failed to provide adequate litter receptacles, cleanup, and other amenities.

Despite all of that, it is a huge success for most of the retailers located there.

I suspect if people need to go for a MRI there they will, just as they will go to Canadian Tire to buy what is on sale this week.

HRM has $50 million to spend on a palatial library and $15 million to spend on a skating oval that gets limited use. They have no problem building 4-pad arenas at $40-$50 million a pop. And let's not even mention the bike lanes that most residents do not want and get very limited use. But they cannot put sidewalks, litter receptacles, and proper roadways in the biggest business destination on the Halifax side of the harbor? This is what I mean when I go on about wasteful spending by HRM and their failure to focus on their core responsibilities.

Phalanx Apr 29, 2017 3:36 PM

Sure, BL is horrible planning, top to bottom, and that's on HRM. But it becomes the province's problem the minute they put a public service facility there. If the infrastructure isn't there, and they can't put it there, then they need to reconsider location.

Keith P. Apr 29, 2017 5:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phalanx (Post 7789306)
Sure, BL is horrible planning, top to bottom, and that's on HRM. But it becomes the province's problem the minute they put a public service facility there. If the infrastructure isn't there, and they can't put it there, then they need to reconsider location.


No, they need to tell HRM to step up and do their job. HRM is awash in cash and needs to stop wasting it on frills.

pblaauw May 1, 2017 3:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P. (Post 7789421)
No, they need to tell HRM to step up and do their job. HRM is awash in cash and needs to stop wasting it on frills.

A library that had FOUR TIMES the expected visitors in its first year is not a frill. Libraries are not frills in general, unless you're a fan of Trump or the Koch brothers.

JET May 1, 2017 2:49 PM

I really dislike Bayers Lake. Interesting that HRM had no idea that a new health facility was going to Bayers Lake; I wonder how much the facility really was planned, or if they just needed an election announcement and popped it out of a hat?

Keith P. May 1, 2017 4:05 PM

That was erroneous reporting, as HRM was asked and consulted well in advance.

OldDartmouthMark May 1, 2017 4:24 PM

Interesting... the election rhetoric has begun. Jamie Baillie is promising a $2 billion infrastructure rebuild, including a new Victoria General Hospital:

https://www.localxpress.ca/local-new...n-trail-602508

Quote:

Tory Leader Jamie Baillie promised a $2-billion Rebuild Nova Scotia Fund — with half the money coming from Ottawa — that would build roads and other infrastructure.
Quote:

Baillie says the Tories would not go into deficit for their fund, which would twin "Nova Scotia's most dangerous highways," build a new Victoria General hospital and bring high-speed Internet to rural areas.

Keith P. May 1, 2017 9:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark (Post 7790703)
Interesting... the election rhetoric has begun. Jamie Baillie is promising a $2 billion infrastructure rebuild, including a new Victoria General Hospital:

https://www.localxpress.ca/local-new...n-trail-602508

What a clown that guy is.

counterfactual May 2, 2017 5:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin May (Post 7780329)
Look at a map would be a good start.
Then take a compass and draw 5km circles around the VG, the QE/Veterans complex and the Bayers Lake site. Do the same for Cobequid and Dartmouth General.
Then read the Regional Plan and the forecasts for residential growth.
For those off peninsula and to the west and north the new site makes sense, and there area lot more older people living off peninsula than on peninsula.

It makes absolute perfect sense if you want to plunk a hospital into an area that is under serviced by public transit, road infrastructure, has no other "active" transport options (walking, biking, etc), and is already ludicrously congested on both week days and weekends.

Yes, yes, a perfect site for a hospital.

Another crony braindead decision from this crony braindead Government.

counterfactual May 2, 2017 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P. (Post 7790668)
That was erroneous reporting, as HRM was asked and consulted well in advance.

HRM was consulted and they said pretty much "anywhere but that garbage Bayers Lake site". And guess where Stephen "Cronyism is my business" MacNeil decided to put it?

Put aside the obvious corruption that they paid 12X the fair market value for the land from a Liberal Party donor. I mean it's a ludicrous decision even without the corruption.

counterfactual May 2, 2017 9:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin May (Post 7789008)
We don't know what transpired between HRM and the province, best we ignore any short comments in the media.
We do know that the days of the VG are numbered, not sure what the plans are for the Dickson.
Not too many years ago almost everything outpatient took place in Halifax. As I wrote before, my experience in the first few months of this year took place at Cobequid, DGH and Dickson. Outpatient services often require a person to show up at 7.a.m.
I cannot get transit to Cobequid for that time- do we seriously expect elderly people to jump on a bus - and Bjerke talking about cycling to a facility shows how crazy and myopic he is. Does he think staff cycle to and from our medical facilities ? ( My wife worked shifts at a facility and the night shift started at 11.30 p.m. forget transit - a car was essential ) Outpatients use a cab, or a spouse or friend to drive to a facility. Go to any facility and the great majority of people are over the age of 50.
Most of the suburbs are not on the periphery, they are off peninsula and they will get larger each year.
I posted this link :
http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...31203cow3i.pdf Attachment 'A' is entitled ‘Active and/or planning applications 2013’, and look at the area from Herring Cove to the west of the peninsula and north to the Bedford boundary.
I count a possible 11,250 dwelling units and that does not include 10,610 units in Bedford West and the 2,409 units in Bedford South.
And then there is further development in the Hammonds Plains corridor.
Not to mention that the Centre Plan is hoping to attract just 25% of future population growth in HRM.
What is best for Halifax may not be the best for residents in HRM. Looking ahead the growth will take place off peninsula.
If Bjerke and/or Ritchie tried to push a site near the Lacewood terminal why don't they come out and say so ? Tell the public what site the staff proposed and stop hiding the information - silence and cryptic comments do not serve the public interest.

All you're doing is providing evidence that Bayers is going to become even more congested than it already is, and that this area is an even stupider place to put this hospital.

Keith P. May 2, 2017 10:01 PM

It's not a hospital.

The price for the property is not out of line, even according the that noted urbanist W. Mason.

Let's move on.

counterfactual May 2, 2017 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P. (Post 7789261)
All of what you decry is the fault of HRM.

They created the BLIP.

They allowed it to become a retail big-box development.

They failed to upgrade the road infrastructure.

They failed to build sidewalks.

They failed to provide adequate transit.

They failed to provide adequate litter receptacles, cleanup, and other amenities.

Despite all of that, it is a huge success for most of the retailers located there.

I suspect if people need to go for a MRI there they will, just as they will go to Canadian Tire to buy what is on sale this week.

HRM has $50 million to spend on a palatial library and $15 million to spend on a skating oval that gets limited use. They have no problem building 4-pad arenas at $40-$50 million a pop. And let's not even mention the bike lanes that most residents do not want and get very limited use. But they cannot put sidewalks, litter receptacles, and proper roadways in the biggest business destination on the Halifax side of the harbor? This is what I mean when I go on about wasteful spending by HRM and their failure to focus on their core responsibilities.

Keith are you really going to sit there and complain about the money spent on the library, when the last time the City spent on infrastructure in Bayers lake it was a five level gong show of cost overruns and idiocy:

Washmill Lake underpass project flawed from start: auditor general


The project took a lot longer than expected and went millions of dollars over budget. Munroe estimates the project is likely $11 million over budget for the city's portion, not $6 million as was the original estimate.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...eral-1.2921841

Let's complain about a library and a skating oval, but praise a radically over budget Bayers overpass and now a hare brained hospital or medical clinic or whatever we're talking about, in an industrial park.

You don't spend money on sidewalks for industrial parks -- because they're not for medical clinics or pedestrians.

Keith P. May 3, 2017 12:11 AM

Washmill was a debacle not because it was in Bayers Lake, but because it was a HRM-managed (ahem) project.

Subsequent to that the lesson was learned to inflate project budgets considerably to provide for a fudge factor for when things go off the rails. This is how we ended up with a $50 million library and a $15 million Oval.

ILoveHalifax May 3, 2017 12:40 AM

So once this new facility is in operation, even if one gets there by bus, at least they can spend some time out there doing some shopping before they head back to the city or where ever they are going.
We can expect that sidewalks will have to be added as more people travel by bus and foot - let's not forget bike lanes too. Just like a real shopping area in a real city. Of course I don't believe that anybody is being forced to go to BL; they can still go to QEII if they prefer

JET May 3, 2017 4:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax (Post 7792513)
So once this new facility is in operation, even if one gets there by bus, at least they can spend some time out there doing some shopping before they head back to the city or where ever they are going.
We can expect that sidewalks will have to be added as more people travel by bus and foot - let's not forget bike lanes too. Just like a real shopping area in a real city. Of course I don't believe that anybody is being forced to go to BL; they can still go to QEII if they prefer

Not if the clinic, specialist, service is not located at QE2, but only at Bayers Lake

worldlyhaligonian May 3, 2017 8:39 PM

IMO, the Washmill underpass was needed. Now you can feasibly walk into BL from CP. It is far, but there will be alot more

They should build residential towers with underground parking on the vast stretches of parking lot out there. There are grocery stores and this would create a new community.

Hali87 May 4, 2017 3:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET (Post 7793088)
Not if the clinic, specialist, service is not located at QE2, but only at Bayers Lake

My understanding is that there wouldn't be any services that are only available at Bayers Lake. It sounds a lot like the Cobequid Health Centre - a lot of basic procedures and services are offered (more convenient for those who live far from the hospitals and keeps them less congested) but for major procedures or very specialized services/equipment most people would go to the QEII or possibly the Dartmouth General. I don't think the idea is to move a bunch of services to Bayers Lake and have them no longer be available on the Peninsula.

JET May 4, 2017 6:06 PM

There are very many specialized clinics at the VG site, why build the new space in BL if it is only going to mirror what is at DGH and Cobequid?, my sense of a new space was to relocate the VG clinics, many of which are related to surgery and other specialties.

alps May 4, 2017 6:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian (Post 7793451)
IMO, the Washmill underpass was needed. Now you can feasibly walk into BL from CP. It is far, but there will be alot more

I don't think pedestrian access is a convincing justification for such a wildly expensive and redundant underpass. A simple footbridge could have been provided for perhaps 2% of the cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hali87 (Post 7793957)
My understanding is that there wouldn't be any services that are only available at Bayers Lake. It sounds a lot like the Cobequid Health Centre - a lot of basic procedures and services are offered (more convenient for those who live far from the hospitals and keeps them less congested) but for major procedures or very specialized services/equipment most people would go to the QEII or possibly the Dartmouth General. I don't think the idea is to move a bunch of services to Bayers Lake and have them no longer be available on the Peninsula.

The new Bayers Lake facility is explicitly intended to permit the redevelopment of the VG, meaning the clinics are being relocated so the existing VG can be demolished.


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