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-   -   PHILADELPHIA | 702 Sansom Street | 315 FT | 24 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=226774)

SEFTA Jan 27, 2017 3:12 AM

702 Sansom Street, Jewelers Row, showed here with boxy proposal at 709 Chestnut Street, both in red.
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...%20Row%202.jpg

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...lers%20Row.jpg


It's ashame they couldn't figure out how to fill all those surface lots with buildings before tearing down historic buildings
http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...%20Row%203.jpg
:yes:

jsbrook Jan 27, 2017 3:33 PM

What proposal at 709 Chestnut Street? Isn't that abandoned?

http://philly.curbed.com/2016/9/12/1...velopment-deal

I do not believe this has been revised or picked up by any other developer.

1487 Jan 27, 2017 4:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbrook (Post 7692077)
What proposal at 709 Chestnut Street? Isn't that abandoned?

http://philly.curbed.com/2016/9/12/1...velopment-deal

I do not believe this has been revised or picked up by any other developer.

yes, that's dead.

Milksteak Jan 27, 2017 4:17 PM

Wouldn't it be nice if Toll filled in 709 instead of taking out part of Jeweler's Row? There are still prime lots for the taking.

SEFTA Jan 27, 2017 4:57 PM

I kept it in, 709 Chestnut Street, because the thread is not closed. It also makes my point, that with all the other available lots, why do they need to tear down historic buildings. Unless I hear it is officially dead, I try to remain optimistic. Tho the renderings of 709 didn't scream a great project, I liked the idea of it happening. I keep the red as only proposals. The blue are under construction or, at least, very hopeful. Seeing all the projects together is really impressive. Reflects the interest in the area.
The Jewelers Row tower will have a great view of Washington Square.

Groundhog Jan 27, 2017 6:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEFTA (Post 7692180)
I kept it in, 709 Chestnut Street, because the thread is not closed. It also makes my point, that with all the other available lots, why do they need to tear down historic buildings. Unless I hear it is officially dead, I try to remain optimistic. Tho the renderings of 709 didn't scream a great project, I liked the idea of it happening. I keep the red as only proposals. The blue are under construction or, at least, very hopeful. Seeing all the projects together is really impressive. Reflects the interest in the area.
The Jewelers Row tower will have a great view of Washington Square.

I love these mock ups you do, they really give better perspective on how a building will interact with the rest of the city. Is there any way you could post a protected view (to prevent people like me from mistakenly screwing up all your hard work) that would let us look around in it?

summersm343 Jan 27, 2017 6:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbrook (Post 7692077)
What proposal at 709 Chestnut Street? Isn't that abandoned?

http://philly.curbed.com/2016/9/12/1...velopment-deal

I do not believe this has been revised or picked up by any other developer.

I'm keeping 709 Chestnut open for now. Roseland backed out in September, but Parkway still owns the lot and could easily partner with another developer. If we don't hear anything soon I'll close the thread. I'm going to start closing some threads we haven't heard anything about and will reopen them if new info or a new projects surfaces.

SEFTA Jan 28, 2017 3:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog (Post 7692308)
I love these mock ups you do, they really give better perspective on how a building will interact with the rest of the city. Is there any way you could post a protected view (to prevent people like me from mistakenly screwing up all your hard work) that would let us look around in it?

I have not been able to figure a way of sharing the info on GoogleEarth. I wish I could. It's quite entertaining to see all the current projects and proposals interact in the city. If you have any suggestions... each building is it's own KMZ file.

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...phia%20279.jpg

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...phia%20280.jpg

Human Scale Jan 28, 2017 4:44 AM

^Use ArcGis City Engine, optimally with VR

They use Philadelphia in a lot of their YouTube videos, presumably because so many West Chester University Geography and Planning graduates go to work for ESRI in Redlands.

https://youtu.be/lcLEOGO1JPE

https://youtu.be/nj78eQxidFc

Raymond LuxuryYacht Jan 28, 2017 6:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Human Scale (Post 7692827)
^Use ArcGis City Engine, optimally with VR

They use Philadelphia in a lot of their YouTube videos, presumably because so many West Chester University Geography and Planning graduates go to work for ESRI in Redlands.

https://youtu.be/lcLEOGO1JPE

https://youtu.be/nj78eQxidFc

I'm a Millersville grad who works for Esri. Yes, Philly seems to be the go-to demo scene for any presentation. The city from what I can tell was an early participant in 3-D modeling. They had a rep from the city at UC, I believe 2 years ago talking about how they use ArcMap for crime mapping. There's a 3-D building web service of the city you can pull into ArcGIS Earth that I believe is the one you see in many demos. The service doesn't have CITC yet, so hopefully it will updated soon to capture all the new building construction!!

Aaamazarite Jan 28, 2017 9:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEFTA (Post 7692780)
I have not been able to figure a way of sharing the info on GoogleEarth. I wish I could. It's quite entertaining to see all the current projects and proposals interact in the city. If you have any suggestions... each building is it's own KMZ file.

Compress them into a rar, zip, 7z, etc and then put the file up on a file sharing site like dropbox, google drive, rapidshare, there's a million of em.

McBane Jan 30, 2017 2:32 PM

This building design is typical Philadelphia. Red brick base with cornice line matching neighboring buildings with a setback tower to give the illusion that the tower doesn't actually exist. This approach is getting very old.

The base is well designed but boring and very unoriginal. I hope that the two jewlers who were interested in the retail space are retained. This tower itself is not a threat to the Row but it will be if this tower follows the pattern of all other new development in the city in that the retail space will either go to a drugstore, a bank, a fast casual chain, or an upscale chain/celebrity chef restaurant.

The Sansom Street facade is awful. Someone likened it to the Federal Courthouse building. I agree - and that's not a good thing, that building is hideous.

The back of the building with the glass facade is okay but doesn't mesh well at all with red brick.

This is truly a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Heide building. It doesn't need a little tweaking but a complete redo. What would work very well IMHO is a contemporary building built with traditional materials, as exemplified by the proposed Hyde Hotel on South Broad or (to a lesser extent) the brick/metal building on Sansom that houses Dizzengoff. Such a design would compliment the other buildings on Jewlers Row, whereas the current design is attempting to be a carbon copy. Finally, do away with the setback. You're building a high rise - own up to it, it's nothing to be ashamed of.

jsbrook Jan 30, 2017 3:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane (Post 7694477)
This building design is typical Philadelphia. Red brick base with cornice line matching neighboring buildings with a setback tower to give the illusion that the tower doesn't actually exist. This approach is getting very old.

The base is well designed but boring and very unoriginal. I hope that the two jewlers who were interested in the retail space are retained. This tower itself is not a threat to the Row but it will be if this tower follows the pattern of all other new development in the city in that the retail space will either go to a drugstore, a bank, a fast casual chain, or an upscale chain/celebrity chef restaurant.

The Sansom Street facade is awful. Someone likened it to the Federal Courthouse building. I agree - and that's not a good thing, that building is hideous.

The back of the building with the glass facade is okay but doesn't mesh well at all with red brick.

This is truly a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Heide building. It doesn't need a little tweaking but a complete redo. What would work very well IMHO is a contemporary building built with traditional materials, as exemplified by the proposed Hyde Hotel on South Broad or (to a lesser extent) the brick/metal building on Sansom that houses Dizzengoff. Such a design would compliment the other buildings on Jewlers Row, whereas the current design is attempting to be a carbon copy. Finally, do away with the setback. You're building a high rise - own up to it, it's nothing to be ashamed of.

You seem to have a universal distaste for setbacks. In fact, they have their uses, are often a sensible approach, and they can also look nice. Certainly not universally desired, but I think a setback in this location is appropriate. Otherwise, there are so many problems with this building design. Hammer nailed it. I can't add much to that.

allovertown Jan 30, 2017 4:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane (Post 7694477)
This building design is typical Philadelphia. Red brick base with cornice line matching neighboring buildings with a setback tower to give the illusion that the tower doesn't actually exist. This approach is getting very old.

The base is well designed but boring and very unoriginal. I hope that the two jewlers who were interested in the retail space are retained. This tower itself is not a threat to the Row but it will be if this tower follows the pattern of all other new development in the city in that the retail space will either go to a drugstore, a bank, a fast casual chain, or an upscale chain/celebrity chef restaurant.

The Sansom Street facade is awful. Someone likened it to the Federal Courthouse building. I agree - and that's not a good thing, that building is hideous.

The back of the building with the glass facade is okay but doesn't mesh well at all with red brick.

This is truly a Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Heide building. It doesn't need a little tweaking but a complete redo. What would work very well IMHO is a contemporary building built with traditional materials, as exemplified by the proposed Hyde Hotel on South Broad or (to a lesser extent) the brick/metal building on Sansom that houses Dizzengoff. Such a design would compliment the other buildings on Jewlers Row, whereas the current design is attempting to be a carbon copy. Finally, do away with the setback. You're building a high rise - own up to it, it's nothing to be ashamed of.

I agree that the design is shit and looks like a terrible copy of the federal court with a glass tumor growing out of it. I also agree that they should go contemporary here. I mean this is basically across the street from the Curtis Center, any attempt at a neoclassical styled brick dominated facade is pointless because they often look bad and it will look even worse when it is forced to stand next to a phenomenal example of this style done right.

But you're way off on the setback. I get that they annoy you and a I will agree they're overused in Philadelphia. Buildings like 2116 Chestnut, there's simply no need for a setback. But I mean there is a reason why people use them and it's not just because people are "ashamed" to build skyscrapers. Jeweler's Row is a beautiful human scaled street. Inserting a 350 foot skyscraper right into the middle of the block would look absolutely absurd and totally destroy the intimate nature of this street. The setback is basically the only thing they got right here.

The setback should remain but they should accomplish it by simply preserving the facades of the existing buildings. But then the tower itself, a striking a contemporary tower would work great here.

McBane Jan 31, 2017 1:56 PM

I guess I can see the rationale of a setback here, but I still think a contemporary design with traditional materials would mesh very well here - to compliment the existing buildings without detracting or overpowering them, the way a modern glass building would.

Knight Hospitaller Jan 31, 2017 3:01 PM

I can't wait for the CDR comments on this Jekyll and Hyde monstrosity. I think the three faux storefronts (replacing the five existing ones) are OK. I'll never understand the tower.

allovertown Jan 31, 2017 5:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller (Post 7695855)
I can't wait for the CDR comments on this Jekyll and Hyde monstrosity. I think the three faux storefronts (replacing the five existing ones) are OK. I'll never understand the tower.

I agree that faux storefronts are ok. But there is no need for it to just be ok. It would not be a burden on the profitability of the project to just preserve the existing storefronts, they're just trying to squeeze every possible dime out of this project.

If they are dead set in demolishing them and we're truly powerless to stop, they should at least break it up with different designs and make them look distinct. Currently it's such a big bland block of sameness that I think it overpowers the whole street.

But yes the tower's design is most problematic. Truly the worSt design I've seen proposed in Philadelphia for high rise inot a long time.

Knight Hospitaller Jan 31, 2017 5:46 PM

^ I too wish the base were better/more preservationist, but if all of this is by right (on unprotected parcels), I'll take what I can get. I would take ANYTHING over the tower with an identity crisis.

jsbrook Jan 31, 2017 9:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBane (Post 7695815)
I guess I can see the rationale of a setback here, but I still think a contemporary design with traditional materials would mesh very well here - to compliment the existing buildings without detracting or overpowering them, the way a modern glass building would.

That's fair. It is a poor design. Many ways it could or should be altered.

Knight Hospitaller Feb 2, 2017 7:05 PM

Inga and the "two-faced" tower: http://www.philly.com/philly/home/to...n.html?photo_4


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