Yey! Welcome to the new Chicago, landmark city being turning into a homeless sanctuary city where stealing public space is the norm… Doesn’t matter you have shelters, doesn’t matter this people have already stolen public parks and public transport, it’s not comfy enough and maybe they will find airports toilets more acceptable. Next time maybe we should allow them to use your own bathrooms since airports are not so clean anyway.

This is ridiculous.

theyre probably going to end up somewhere else now and that will be in the news as well in a few weeks. I feel like the bunch that was previously camping in the clark and lake stop moved over to O'Hare, i wonder if they'll head to midway airport next.

Also I do want to say that while homelessness is a serious issue i don't think its quite the catastrophe that people are making it out to be. Its nothing compared to what I saw when I lived in the Bay or other west coast cities like LA or Seattle.
Had a couple of friends from the Bay recently visit and they remarked how clean and free of homeless the city was in comparison to the Bay area.
Now this doesn't mean the city shouldn't do anything about it or let it get worse, but thought it would be good to put things in perspective.

^^
It’s a negative trend that is growing every year. The dire situation pacific coast cities currently face did not occur from one day to the other, and every year you can see this issue is getting worse in Chicago. Homeless tents near the Belmont Marina were rare and only lasted during summer/autumn, now I find at least 5 tents in the area all year. The situation in Uptown near Montrose beach is getting really bad and Humbolt Park is fully invaded of tents now. I even saw 1 sleeping bag inside a kiosk with some shit in Lincoln Park which used to be a homeless free haven. Please note I am talking of areas outside the Loop in northern upper class neighborhoods which are not even that close to a CTA station. Now the airport?

Chicago’s weather will continue to get warmer during the next decades, so if we continue with this progressive tolerance that takes you nowhere, we will repeat the same mistakes San Francisco did. Let’s please be smart and learn the lesson. Homelessness is not addressed by allowing people to steal public space, that’s not the solution. Invasion of public space is a sign of a third world underdeveloped country.

I really don't want to get sucked too deep in a conversation about this. I maintain that there are ways to responsibly address the problem. But acting like this is something new or it's getting worse and worse and we're going to drowned in homeless people if we don't kick them out on the street or lock them up in jail is just farcical. If you look at the point in time count of homeless people in the city there's no indication that the numbers are going up. In fact, last year the number of people on the street was comparable to 2013, 2016 and 2019 which had the lowest numbers in the past decade. The count hasn't been released this year yet, but there's no indication there's some spike or steady increase. There's simply seasonal shifts. When the weather gets cold, the homeless shelters start to fill up and people seek places to sleep that are inside. It's going to happen every year to some extent. The city can and should be more responsive to address the problem proactively, but to some extent it's not predictable and just requires the city to respond when people start overstaying their welcome, causing trouble and taking up too much space.

Everything in this post is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Nobody is arguing homeless trends in the city. Nobody is arguing that homeless should be locked up. Nobody is arguing that homeless isn't a complex issue that will require a complex solution to address it.

The key issue is:
1 - Up until recently, homeless people weren't camping out in the baggage collection area at O'Hare. We aren't acting like it's something new - It is something new.
2 - It's unacceptable to allow drugged out homeless to camp out all over the place. It's horrible for the city's image, it garners very very bad press, and it's a complete hazard to passengers.

This is right. People are injecting drugs or shitting next to the elevators in O'hare. Regardless of what the proximal or distal causes might be for that, and acknowledging that something should be done to help people avoid those circumstances, they should not be encouraged through neglect and incompetence to spend time in environments where they are creating a hazard and doing harm.

Now you're being disingenuous. . . IT MOST DEFINITELY FUCKING IS GETTING WORSE!!! You haven't been listening and probably haven't even travelled through O'Hare to notice the problem. . . we're not talking about HOW MANY homeless there are in the city. . . we're specifically talking about WHERE the homeless are!!!

How are you not understanding this?!? [/facepalm]

. . .

Eh, I remember LGA having an issue maybe 6-7 years ago, and I have heard sporadic reports of homeless at JFK recently, but nothing out of hand IIRC. It is also a little more difficult to access the NYC airports than ORD.

Oye, someone wake me when you have an update on the new terminals.

I think we are just waiting for construction to officially begin on the satellites, which is supposed to occur this year. I am hoping SOM releases some updated renderings of what they are envisioning as we really have just two renderings from their original pitch that doesn't do much justice:

https://www.som.com/news/som-team-se...al-in-chicago/

The only things left for T5 is any remaining work on security checkpoints, along with completion of new shops/restaurants.

Just piling on. . .

https://wgntv.com/news/wgn-investiga...airport-train/

. . .

This is another problem that should be addressed and fixed immediately. Mostly because of T5 connections for folks flying in that need to connect.

Right now Terminal 5 is pretty much devoid of most ships and restaurants, so I hope the construction finishes up fairly soon. ;)

Aaron (Glowrock)

Now they aren't going to allow rideshare pickups at T5... so you have to take the train to T1/2/3 to catch a rideshare. It's like the city's main focus is looking for new ways to make the airport less convenient.

^Right. . . this goes beyond passive ignorance and wades into active stupidity!

. . .

I would not be unhappy if they moved all rideshare pickup to a remote location served by the ATS (assuming they can make it function reliably).

I would. The idea of having to get on a train/bus out of T5 just to take an Uber out of O'Hare when there's a dropoff/loading area right in front of T5 sounds frustrating to me.

I don't think its good policy for the city to reserve easy terminal access to car owners.... the opposite should be true...

My preference is to take the Blue Line but as that is often in shambles these days I opt for a rideshare if the Kennedy isn't a parking lot.

If the loading arrangement is better than present I'd be all for it. Drop offs would still occur as normal at departures. When it's really busy the pickup zone clogs up and becomes a huge mess and it can be difficult for some people to locate their car. I'd apply this to all terminals as well, not just T5. I usually use T3.

Right, so prioritize suburban car owners over city dwellers using rideshare. :yuck:

According to Uber this is just a temporary move while some construction is done at T5. I'm ok with it given that added context.

If divers can que more efficiently closer to the pickup zone it would would likely save me time and potentially not having to wait outside for so long in rather variable weather. I find nothing attractive about the current pickup scheme.

O'Hare gets $50 million from FAA for Terminal 3 upgrades

It's a start!

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/airl...n-faa-upgrades

Nice! I don't have a subscription (sadly, I still need to sign up for Crains...). This is independent of the expansion plans, right?

non-paywalled story from the Sun Times


O’Hare receives $50 million in federal grant money for upgrades at Terminal 3

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2023/2/...-at-terminal-3

I know! I can’t pay for it. I don’t like charged. All I want free newspaper on the website. I only like to be free. Free of charge!

Thanks for sharing this! I appreciate your help.

Took me 1:45 to get to the Loop from Kenosha this morning. . . I was going 80mph from the state line all the way to Peterson Ave. and then hit the Kennedy brick wall. . .

Sounds like it's going to get worse. . . a LOT worse. . .

https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/...egin-in-march/

. . .

Not sure if this belongs in the airport thread, transit thread, or both. A new way to get to O'hare is coming in a couple of years...

United and Archer will open an air taxi route to Chicago’s O’Hare airport in 2025

https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/VV...29f17d.cf.webp

https://www.engadget.com/united-and-...191352804.html

Tbh, I'd rather see express rail service than this. This seems like a gadgetbahn.

I wonder where a commercial helipad would go for this. Would making a pad above parking the ground lot B across the United Terminal make sense? I think they would have to make the pad landside rather than airside. I also presume that it would follow the Kennedy corridor route on the way in/out so as not to interfere with airport operations.

My bet would be near where the heli pad is along the river south of the city. Or maybe the marshaling yard by McCormick.

Yeah, I dunno about this. The noise is going to drive people nuts and the city council is likely to put the kibosh on it.

Sorry if someone already posted.......

Final Environmental Assessment PDF with a plethora of renders and images (most likely rough placeholders, but pretty detailed in description) for the ORD 21 plans.

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/fi...pendix_G_4.pdf

That document seems to confirm that these are the overall shapes to expect for the Global Terminal and Satellites:

https://ord21.com/SiteCollectionImag...ering-wide.jpg

Very cool find! Thanks for sharing!

No beautiful new renderings of OGT or the new satellites, but it's super cool to see the details of how connections between existing terminals and the new additions will be modified. Happy to see the rotunda is getting a bit of a re-boot. I also totally overlooked the small additions to C and B. Looks like just additional baggage collection (B), and maybe some new seating area in C?

I don't see any evidence of VE of OGT here, but then again, if there is to be any, we will find that out in due time. Hoping they keep to the original design.....

If you want to try to predict what the new satellites may look like, it might be worth looking towards the new KC airport as SOM designed the new terminals there - https://thepointsguy.com/news/kansas...terminal-tour/

Also - New hotels at T5 and the multi-modal facilities? That's news to me as well.

I originally looked it up because it occurred me that there is dead space landside at T1 on the northeast side. I was wondering if there was going to be some new utilization of that space and was glad to see there are plans for it. What exactly will be a part of that space still remains to be seen, if landside concessions, check-in kiosk, or customer services will be interesting.

New T2 / Concourse G
 

Ever since the new T2 was announced it seems like concourse G is shoe-horned in to fit with the T2. About 2/3 of that concourse's west side will not have gates. I also know the rotunda is a symbol of the original O'Hare, but I wonder if it really should stay. It seems like a lot of work to try to keep it when it's small and very dark.

I know on many boards there are discussions on American's long term desire to keep a hub at ORD. When this phase of the new e T2 is complete, American's facilities will be much worse than United's at ORD. T3 will still have the same old and cramped infrastructure that is being cited for the demolition of T2.

Won't both AA and UA operate out of the new Global Terminal together?

Yes, they are! They will be at new Global terminal. They had go through customs and immigration. No longer going to T5 customs. That’s from the past!

Yeah it would have been nice to see some updated, full renders, but you can kinda make out some terminal-level elevations of the updated design in some of the slides, so it's..something to tide over until the final design is released :shrug:

American's ops at ORD post the new T2
 

American and its One World partners will use T2 for int'l arrivals, but the majority of the American domestic departure and arrival flights will operate out of T3. The majority of United's domestic departure and arrival flights will operate out of T1's concourse B, concourse C, and the new satellite #2. United's concourses A and B are much roomier and nicer than T3, and it seems United will be the main tenant for the new satellite #2, which should be nicer than all of the other concourses.

I have not seen any details, but I am guessing American and United's int'l departures will not be limited to just T2.

Unless you are flying int'l on American (which is slowly shrinking), you most likely won't even experience the new T2. American has been slowly downsizing their ops at ORD, especially int'l. Their passengers will experience an inferior "hard" product at ORD once T2 is done giving their passengers another reason to switch to United. As an Executive Platinum flyer for AA for years this is really disappointing.

I thought I remember reading in a report a few years ago of plans to expand the footprint of the concourses in Terminal 3 in order to fit in more concessions and passenger waiting space.

There was no mention those plans in this report though. I would agree that the T3 needs a massive overhaul, and even T1 could use some cosmetic upgrades.

This should answer part of your questions about terminal 3:

https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/dept...will-rece.html

There is also the project to add three gates to the L-stinger.

I'm not an airline analyst. But AA only has two hubs in the U.S. that aren't on the border or coast, DFW and ORD. United also has Denver and Delta has DET, MSP, ATL and SLC. I don't see how AA could afford logistically to dramatically reduce operations at ORD, though DFW and ORD are the most replicative of any two major mid-continent hubs.

AA's shrinking international capacity is largely due to fleet availability. They retired the A330s and 767s during COVID and the big 787 order is way delayed. They just don't have planes which is management's mistake.

Yep - And United (from what it seems like) has been two steps ahead of AA, putting in major orders for widebody planes. And air taxis now too..... lol

I used to view United as a crappy airline somewhere between Frontier and Delta, but they have been making an effort over the recent years to elevate their image. If that means they expand their presence at O'Hare, which helps facilitate more improvements and expansions, I'm for it.

In a perfect world, AA would get their shit together and try to compete with United at O'Hare. I don't want the airport to be dominated by a single airline.

United has damn near 100 more widebody aircraft than American. 220 vs 123. Delta doesn't get much closer at 157 widebodies.

United has the smallest narrowbody fleet though - something they are trying to fix with their orderbook of over 500 737s and A320s.

One thing that is going to be interesting to watch in the coming years is the implementation of the "use it or lose it" policy for gates. I think right now American is underutilizing their gates and if that continues the city will take them back and give them to someone else (assuming someone else wants them). It's unlikely American is going to abandon or scale ORD back much more than it already has - given they're on the hook for big $$$ for the ORD21 plan.

They actually have an incident category for this!
 

From FAA delay notice e-mail today:

"Due to [ OTHER / COYOTES ON THE FIELD ] there is a Ground Stop in effect for traffic arriving [ Chicago O'Hare International Airport(ORD) ]."

Still no new concessions opened in T5 :(

But.... It's clear they are working on a ton of new stuff. Minus the new addition, there's split off construction along the entire stretch of the original T5. I spotted something that almost looked like an entrance to a new lounge. I was doubtful there were going to be any new lounges in T5 given the new Global Terminal being built, it appears there's too much construction for the handful of concessions that have been announced in here.

Security wasn't as bad either - Didn't seem like it was new, but it did appear to move faster than the previous times i've been in here.

So - Is work on the new satellites officially underway? I landed from Paris yesterday and there was a ton of excavation work occurring near the end of B. Perhaps it's prep work, but my friend who works for United makes it sound like they are working on a new tram system. I take that info with a grain of salt.

Also, there appears to be work on L, where there's a small addition in the rendering posted.