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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

Cage Jul 13, 2017 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 7864091)
I figured that Air Transat would either go with the A321neoLR or the 787-8 to replace their A310s. They are about the best 'middle of market' replacement offered today.

I guess the 787-8 is too expensive for their requirements.

The A321neoLR is probably the best fit for them - it has enough range to do YUL/YYZ/YQB to western European destinations that don't require the capacity for the A330. It can also be used for sun destinations in the winter as well.

I'm not sure how this bodes for AT in western cities though. I can't see them using an A330 for YVR-Manchester or Glasgow. Maybe they'll try using connecting flights via YYZ?

The best MoM plane on the market is a used 763 with a great mtce track record. The second best airplane is the Boeing paper airplane (e.g. 797) that is due out in 2025 range. Airlines that have great 763s are keeping them, those that don't have great 763s are screwed. Also those airlines with great 763s are planning to keep them in the fleet until 2025.

Agreed, I too suspect the introduction of the 231LR at TS will spell the end of their TransAt program. I also suspect that TS will funnel W Cda pax through YYZ and YUL onto TransAt routes.

Finally I suspect that one or more of ATH, ZAG, FCO, and VCE will disappear in the 2020 fleet map. My money is on ZAG and VCE as these routes do not compete with AC mainline service, meaning if AC loses profitability on ATH and/or FCO they can switch to rouge to be price and service competitive.

The 788 was chosen because Boeing is quietly withdrawing the aircraft from the fleet offering. This is being accomplished by not discounting the 788 airframe to the same extent as 789 the model. WS, TS and a bunch of airlines are in the same boat. However if Boeing were to receive an order for 40+ 788s, I'm sure they would discount but that is based on volume.

Cage Jul 13, 2017 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7864290)
Depending on what the actual range of the 321LR is, it looks like it could do YVR-GLA or MAN though. It's posted range is 7,500KM with both GLA and MAN being about 7,100KM.

Your problem with YVR to GLA or MAN, where to put the aircraft on the nonflying days? It would be a huge waste to park the 321LR when its not flying to either GLA or MAN. The only other way to accomplish is to route YYZ-GLA-YVR-GLA-YYZ, wash rinse repeat with MAN instead of GLA. Under this routing TS would be giving up prime flight days on YYZ to fly a W Cda route network.

Overall its easier to fly YVR/YYC-YYZ and then connect to the world.

Alexcaban Jul 14, 2017 7:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cage (Post 7864608)

Finally I suspect that one or more of ATH, ZAG, FCO, and VCE will disappear in the 2020 fleet map. My money is on ZAG and VCE as these routes do not compete with AC mainline service, meaning if AC loses profitability on ATH and/or FCO they can switch to rouge to be price and service competitive.

Huh? What are you talking about? Transat won't be dropping anything, first of all AC doesn't fly to ZAG and VCE is Rouge already. Same goes for ATH its a Rouge flight and FCO hopefully will never be rouge again, it has the market to support J class AC mainline.

casper Jul 14, 2017 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban (Post 7864978)
Huh? What are you talking about? Transat won't be dropping anything, first of all AC doesn't fly to ZAG and VCE is Rouge already. Same goes for ATH its a Rouge flight and FCO hopefully will never be rouge again, it has the market to support J class AC mainline.

Can you make it to ZAH or VCE on an A331LR? That may be out of range from Montreal and likely out of range of Toronto.

wave46 Jul 14, 2017 7:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 7865013)
Can you make it to ZAH or VCE on an A331LR? That may be out of range from Montreal and likely out of range of Toronto.

Air Transat has no plans to replace their A330s, just their smaller and shorter-range A310s. ZAH is currently done by an A330 (1/wk), while VCE is an A310.

VCE would be at the extreme edge to what would be possible with an A321neoLR. I doubt that they'd use that particular aircraft as it would be outside any safety margins for fuel reserve, they'd probably up it to an A330.

thenoflyzone Jul 15, 2017 12:38 AM

Anyone from YQM lurk these forums? If so, head to the airport, an AC A333 is about to touch down.

AC892 YUL-FCO is diverting.

zahav Jul 15, 2017 4:03 AM

Since YTD figues are out for all major airports, here's a summary where things stand as of May. All good showings. YVR has 3 strongest titles: total growth, transborder growth, and international growth. YEG strongest for domestic. The numbers will change a lot I'm sure by year end, but this is a good snapshot so far.

Total:
YVR: +8.6%
YUL: +8.5%
YYZ: +7.7%
YEG: +4.5%
YYC: +2.9%

Domestic:
YEG: +8%
YUL: +7.2%
YVR: +5.4%
YYZ: +3.6%
YYC: +1%

Transborder:
YVR: +8.9%
YYZ: +7%
YYC: +6.5%
YUL: +3.9%
YEG: -7.6%

International:
YVR: +14.4%
YUL: +12.9%
YYZ: +12.4%
YYC: +8.2%
YEG: -2.8%

SignalHillHiker Jul 15, 2017 2:08 PM

Expanding tastes at St. John’s International Airport

http://i63.tinypic.com/2ynqp1z.jpg

Quote:

This time next year, passengers travelling out of St. John’s International Airport will be able to enjoy a beer or glass of wine, have a sit-down meal and even do a little shopping before their flight departs.

Seven new dining options and a number of new retail locations will open in the east-end expansion of the terminal building as part of the first phase of the airport authority’s massive 10-year, $200-million improvement and expansion plan.

...

Currently, the only food options in the departure lounge are a tiny Tim Hortons outlet operated by On the Go and a Jumping Bean kiosk.

There are so few options, Manning explained, because the airport as it exists was designed prior to 9-11, when security requirements weren’t as strict, which allowed people more time prior to going through security.
http://www.thetelegram.com/business/...l-airport.html

thenoflyzone Jul 15, 2017 2:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker (Post 7866032)
Expanding tastes at St. John’s International Airport

http://www.thetelegram.com/business/...l-airport.html

Good move. I flew in/out of YYT last month. The Tim's post-security is so tiny, that I couldn't even find it at first. I had to ask a lady where it was. Lack of signage doesn't help either.

They need to do something about the security check area as well. That holding area up the escalator is too small, and will not be able to cope with an increase in passenger traffic.

G.S MTL Jul 15, 2017 3:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 7865903)
Since YTD figues are out for all major airports, here's a summary where things stand as of May. All good showings. YVR has 3 strongest titles: total growth, transborder growth, and international growth. YEG strongest for domestic. The numbers will change a lot I'm sure by year end, but this is a good snapshot so far.

Total:
YVR: +8.6%
YUL: +8.5%
YYZ: +7.7%
YEG: +4.5%
YYC: +2.9%

Domestic:
YEG: +8%
YUL: +7.2%
YVR: +5.4%
YYZ: +3.6%
YYC: +1%

Transborder:
YVR: +8.9%
YYZ: +7%
YYC: +6.5%
YUL: +3.9%
YEG: -7.6%

International:
YVR: +14.4%
YUL: +12.9%
YYZ: +12.4%
YYC: +8.2%
YEG: -2.8%

International for YVR is actually 13.6% :)

Denscity Jul 15, 2017 9:44 PM

^^^ Haha still number one.

zahav Jul 15, 2017 11:46 PM

Where did you get the 13.6% from? Based on the YVR May update, total international for YTD is 2,405,159 and 2016 was 2,102,029. A difference of 303,130. That is an increase of 14.4%

G.S MTL Jul 16, 2017 5:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 7866410)
Where did you get the 13.6% from? Based on the YVR May update, total international for YTD is 2,405,159 and 2016 was 2,102,029. A difference of 303,130. That is an increase of 14.4%

Yes ur right ! Because YVR stats for may 2017 they included trans in the Sub intl that's why. My bad

zahav Jul 16, 2017 9:00 AM

No worries ya I hate how YVR doesn't treat international the same as all the other airports, you have to manually calculate it ;)

Johnny Aussie Jul 16, 2017 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 7866618)
No worries ya I hate how YVR doesn't treat international the same as all the other airports, you have to manually calculate it ;)

Funny though this is unique to Canada. Every other airport in the world separates Domestic and International only.

Talking to colleagues here about trying to compare international growth between Australian and Canadian airports... I explain... then every single person says the same as what I believe... the definition of international is simple... plane takes off in one country and lands in another. I go on to explain the difference in the notion of domestic for Tariff purposes... shrugs abound.

In any event to compare international between Canadian airports and anywhere else in the world you have to include "transborder."

Therefore YVR is truly becoming quite a huge "international" airport.

thenoflyzone Jul 16, 2017 3:58 PM

Europe at -1.2% YTD must be concerning for YVR, and is the only hiccup on their stellar stats so far this year.

AC's YVR-LGW and YVR-FRA came online last month, so that will most likely return Europe in positive territory for YVR in terms of loads. Let's see how the market will absorb these duplicate flights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 7866625)
Funny though this is unique to Canada. Every other airport in the world separates Domestic and International only.

I agree, but nonetheless, I understand why the U.S stats are separate.

The U.S is our largest trading partner. Import/export with the U.S is 8 times larger than our second largest trading partner, the E.U.
We also share an almost 9,000 km border with the U.S, which is the longest intl border in the world between two countries.

8 Canadian airports have U.S pre-clearance, further boosting travel and trade. The sheer volume of people flying between Canada and the U.S makes having that additional column useful.

Also, if for nothing else, it must make StatsCan's calculations that much easier....;)
Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 7865903)

Total:
YVR: +8.6%
YUL: +8.5%

Incredible to think that at the end of this year, YUL will reach YVR's passenger count from 4 years ago. That's not too shabby, considering YUL is not AC's primary east coast or west coast hub.

casper Jul 16, 2017 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7866715)
Europe at -1.2% YTD must be concerning for YVR, and is the only hiccup on their stellar stats so far this year.

I think that is the result of new flights to India diverting traffic off of flights to Europe.

nname Jul 17, 2017 2:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7866715)
Incredible to think that at the end of this year, YUL will reach YVR's passenger count from 4 years ago. That's not too shabby, considering YUL is not AC's primary east coast or west coast hub.

AC still got more daily departures from YUL compare to YVR though. YUL is AC's second-biggest hub.

mezzanine Jul 17, 2017 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 7867023)
AC still got more daily departures from YUL compare to YVR though. YUL is AC's second-biggest hub.

Also consider the sheer population and relative density of the eastern seaboard vs the western US/Canada.

YYZ also has flights to north asia, so YYZ can keep up with YVR as an AC TPAC hub. YVR's niche come from the NZ/Australia flights, and if it ever develops, SE Asia.

-----

Just took the YVR-BOS flight recently - really full flight! maybe it bodes well but as I learned from here, loads ≠ yields...

isaidso Jul 17, 2017 9:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 7866625)
Funny though this is unique to Canada. Every other airport in the world separates Domestic and International only.

Talking to colleagues here about trying to compare international growth between Australian and Canadian airports... I explain... then every single person says the same as what I believe... the definition of international is simple... plane takes off in one country and lands in another. I go on to explain the difference in the notion of domestic for Tariff purposes... shrugs abound.

In any event to compare international between Canadian airports and anywhere else in the world you have to include "transborder."

Therefore YVR is truly becoming quite a huge "international" airport.

It's an extension of not seeing the US as foreign even though it is. Canadians viewed GM, Ford, and Chrysler as our 'domestic' automakers, for instance. Many still do.

It's more informative seeing how much of the international traffic is US traffic but agree with you that not including US traffic in the international figure is a bizarre Canadianism.


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