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-   -   Urban Noise: the symphony of the city (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240149)

Steely Dan Aug 26, 2019 10:11 PM

Urban Noise: the symphony of the city
 
cut from an off-topic discussion from another thread:






Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8669684)

Good Chicago neighborhoods aren't cheap. Apples-to-apples you're probably spending about the same as in Toronto.

i'm not so sure about that.

we got a 3 bed/3bath 2,300 SF condo in a 3-flat in a "good" neighborhood of chicago for $420K. granted, the brown line rumbles directly down our alley every several minutes, so that knocks down the value a bit, but still, not bad at all for a family-sized home in a major, urban US city.

i just zillowed toronto and couldn't find a single 3 bed/3 bath property of any type for sale under $450K ANYWHERE within city limits. not a single one.

i bumped the max up to $600K, and a handful of properties appeared on the fringes of the city (ie. the least urban, least interesting parts of city proper toronto).

Northern Light Aug 26, 2019 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8669691)
i'm not so sure about that.

we got a 3 bed/3bath 2,300 SF condo in a 3 flat in a "good" neighborhood of chicago for $420K. granted, the brown line rumbles directly down our alley every several minutes, so that knocks down the value a bit, but still, not bad at all for a family-sized home in a good neighborhood of a major, urban US city.

i just zillowed toronto and couldn't find a single 3 bed/3 bath property of any type for sale under $450K ANYWHERE within city limits. not a single one.

i bumped the max up to $600K, and a handful of properties appeared on the fringes of the city (ie. the least urban, least interesting parts of city proper toronto).

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...oronto-malvern

That's in one of Toronto's...um.....less preferred areas. Best I could do, for 3 bed, 3 bath, except for one very undesirable condo. $549,000CAD, that's $414,000 USD (its also a condo)

$590,000CAD would get your this townhome in the inner burbs. (444,000 USD)

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...onto-guildwood

Cheapest fully-detached, 3brdm, 3bath I could find, that is not condo....

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2...onto-rouge-e10

$689,000 CAD, $520,000USD.

Right at the edge of Toronto proper.

Anyways, were getting OT, that's my fault! Back to Englewood

Crawford Aug 26, 2019 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8669691)
i'm not so sure about that.
we got a 3 bed/3bath 2,300 SF condo in a 3-flat in a "good" neighborhood of chicago for $420K. granted, the brown line rumbles directly down our alley every several minutes, so that knocks down the value a bit, but still, not bad at all for a family-sized home in a major, urban US city.

I just stayed the weekend in a pretty standard, non-luxurious South Loop townhouse, and it's worth around $1 million. And there aren't really walkable nearby amenities outside of parks.

And I would imagine the L noise would be a major factor in your street's relative affordability. I've stayed at the Chicago Hilton and could barely sleep due to the L a block away. No doubt you get used to it, though.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8669691)
i just zillowed toronto and couldn't find a single 3 bed/3 bath property of any type for sale under $450K ANYWHERE within city limits. not a single one.

i bumped the max up to $600K, and a handful of properties appeared on the fringes of the city (ie. the least urban, least interesting parts of city proper toronto).

But those are CAD. A 600k Toronto home in Toronto is a 430k home in Chicago. I don't think there are many central Chicago neighborhoods where you have Toronto-level good schools and no safety issues, where family-sized units are gonna go for 430k. And you have to factor in taxes and fees, which are minimal in Toronto.

Steely Dan Aug 27, 2019 2:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8669721)
And I would imagine the L noise would be a major factor in your street's relative affordability. I've stayed at the Chicago Hilton and could barely sleep due to the L a block away. No doubt you get used to it, though.

our realtor told us that being DIRECTLY on the el tracks (with all of the attendant noise) probably gives our property a roughly $30K ding.

the main issue is when you go to sell, a certain percentage of people won't even consider something that close to the el tracks (similar to a property across the street from a sewage treatment plant or an airport), so with a smaller pool of potential buyers, it can take longer to move such properties.

our own home had been on the market for 6 months when we bought it. it was first listed at $480K, then dropped to $460K, then dropped to $440K, and we were then able to negotiate it down to $420K (420! LOL, it was meant to be ;) ). $400K was our target, so we didn't go too much above, but because of the el track discount we did get more home than we otherwise could have comfortably afforded in a neighborhood like lincoln square.

and yes, you totally get used to the noise. this wasn't my first rodeo living next to the el, so it was no big deal for me. it probably took my wife a month or so before she was fully acclimated to it.

and the flip side of living with el noise is that it does mean you're VERY close to rail transit, which is highly sought after in chicago, so there is some silver lining.







Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8669721)
But those are CAD. A 600k Toronto home in Toronto is a 430k home in Chicago.

whoops, i completely forgot about converting between dollars, doh!

still though, search zillow for 3 bed/3 bath homes in chicago for under $500K USD. hundreds upon hundreds of options all over the city.

search zillow for 3 bed/3 bath homes in toronto for under $662K CAD. a only a small handful of properties out in areas like scarborough and etobicoke.

toronto is simply a more expensive market than chicago for purchasing real estate. which isn't surprising considering that it's growing like a weed while chicago stagnates.

scarborough and etobicoke are nice enough places, but i'll take an old pre-war neighborhood like lincoln square any day, all day.

Crawford Aug 27, 2019 3:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8670115)
our realtor told us that being DIRECTLY on the el tracks (with all of the attendant noise) probably gives our property a roughly $30K ding.

the main issue is when you go to sell, a certain percentage of people won't even consider something that close to the el tracks (similar to a property across the street from a sewage treatment plant or an airport), so with a smaller pool of potential buyers, it can take longer to move such properties.

Sounds like you got a great deal, and a 30k ding isn't much for resale.

Do you have a deck or outdoor space? I'd be afraid to have my kids playing outside, that close the train, for fear of debris or perhaps hearing loss.

Steely Dan Aug 27, 2019 4:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8670213)
Do you have a deck or outdoor space? I'd be afraid to have my kids playing outside, that close the train, for fear of debris or perhaps hearing loss.

we have a private deck off the back of the building, a shared brick-paved patio below that, and a very small shared grass yard in front of our building, all connected by the gangway on the side. it's a different kind of outdoor play space than a typical big suburban back yard, but our kids have a ton fun with it none-the-less. they still wave to every train that goes by. and they actually refer to the landing on the exterior wood stairs that go up to our neighbors' units as their "treehouse", and they play in it as kids in a regular tree house would (gotta love city kids!).

there is absolutely zero concern of debris falling from the tracks because there is a 20' deep parking pad and a 22' wide alley ROW between our back "yard" and the elevated tracks.

as for hearing loss, i don't know if that's a real concern or not, but kids have been growing up next to the noisy-ass el tracks of chicago for well over a century now, and i've never heard anyone say anything about it. ie. there's no commonly shared knowledge saying not to do so that i'm aware of. it is pretty fucking loud when a train rumbles by, but it's a very sporadic noise that only lasts for like 5 seconds and then it's gone.

i can see how some people might be annoyed by living so close to the el, but i actually find it really cool. it makes me feel more connected to the big giant city i live within. in a weird way, it was actually kind of a selling point for me. i mean, TRAINS!!!!!!

JManc Aug 27, 2019 6:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8670255)

i can see how some people might be annoyed by living so close to the el, but i actually find it really cool. it makes me feel more connected to the big giant city i live within. in a weird way, it was actually kind of a selling point for me. i mean, TRAINS!!!!!!

Video Link

Steely Dan Aug 27, 2019 6:26 PM

^ LOL, such a classic chicago scene (hell, that whole fucking movie is such a classic chicago scene).

but a vanishing one. i don't think there are too many SRO's slapped up against the el tracks like that left anymore, for better or worse.

jtown,man Aug 27, 2019 8:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8670255)
we have a private deck off the back of the building, a shared brick-paved patio below that, and a very small shared grass yard in front of our building, all connected by the gangway on the side. it's a different kind of outdoor play space than a typical big suburban back yard, but our kids have a ton fun with it none-the-less. they still wave to every train that goes by. and they actually refer to the landing on the exterior wood stairs that go up to our neighbors' units as their "treehouse", and they play in it as kids in a regular tree house would (gotta love city kids!).

there is absolutely zero concern of debris falling from the tracks because there is a 20' deep parking pad and a 22' wide alley ROW between our back "yard" and the elevated tracks.

as for hearing loss, i don't know if that's a real concern or not, but kids have been growing up next to the noisy-ass el tracks of chicago for well over a century now, and i've never heard anyone say anything about it. ie. there's no commonly shared knowledge saying not to do so that i'm aware of. it is pretty fucking loud when a train rumbles by, but it's a very sporadic noise that only lasts for like 5 seconds and then it's gone.

i can see how some people might be annoyed by living so close to the el, but i actually find it really cool. it makes me feel more connected to the big giant city i live within. in a weird way, it was actually kind of a selling point for me. i mean, TRAINS!!!!!!

I've never understood the serious concern about noise and health(in the vast majority of cases).

I lived right below the path jets used from NAS Oceania when I lived in Virginia Beach. Was it loud? YES! Annoying sometimes? At first. Could it seriously have hurt my hearing? Highly...highly doubt it. And these are freaking jets...flying low.

Crawford Aug 27, 2019 8:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 8670548)
I've never understood the serious concern about noise and health(in the vast majority of cases).

You don't understand the concerns about living next to an earsplitting noise every few minutes? If a pack of Harleys with altered mufflers passed by your bedroom window every few minutes, or an endlessly repeating fireworks show happened steps from your apartment, wouldn't you agree some might be annoyed?

I won't stay at the Hilton, which is like 1.5 blocks from an L train. Obviously one can get used to the noise, but others won't consider living in such close proximity. And I seriously doubt that low-flying jets are remotely comparable to the L.

Steely Dan Aug 27, 2019 9:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8670577)
And I seriously doubt that low-flying jets are remotely comparable to the L.

jet engines are far louder, particularly at take-off (max thrust).

el trains clock in at about 90 decibels along the brown line, if they are at speed. comparable to standing close to a gas lawn mower.

some of the screeching around curves can get pretty irritating in a "nails on a chalk board" kinda way, but we live next to a straight run of track, so it's just that deeper rumble of a fast moving train on an elevated steel structure, no screeching.

commercial jet engines vary anywhere from 120 - 140 decibels at take-off. military jets, like the kind that might fly in and out of NAS oceania can be even louder if they have their afterburner on.


coincidentally, we also live directly underneath the approach path to one of ohare's runways, so we also get jets flying overhead all day long to compliment the el trains. but we're about 10 miles from the end of the runway, so the planes are still several thousand feet up in the sky and not quite so loud, though still very, very audible, especially those old MD-80s.

we also live close to swedish convenant hospital, so we get a lot of ambulance sirens as well.

ah, the symphony of the city. i find dead quiet places to be a little spooky. where's the noise?

JManc Aug 27, 2019 9:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8670388)
^ LOL, such a classic chicago scene (hell, that whole fucking movie is such a classic chicago scene).

but a vanishing one. i don't think there are too many SRO's slapped up against the el tracks like that left anymore, for better or worse.

They were gritty and sketchy but there was something appealing about them. You were in the heart of the action but it was affordable.

jtown,man Aug 28, 2019 1:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8670577)
You don't understand the concerns about living next to an earsplitting noise every few minutes? If a pack of Harleys with altered mufflers passed by your bedroom window every few minutes, or an endlessly repeating fireworks show happened steps from your apartment, wouldn't you agree some might be annoyed?

I won't stay at the Hilton, which is like 1.5 blocks from an L train. Obviously one can get used to the noise, but others won't consider living in such close proximity. And I seriously doubt that low-flying jets are remotely comparable to the L.

"Earsplitting noise" ...Yes, some will be annoyed. But as a health issue? No.

It probably isn't the same. But I would bet you never heard a jet close up. I haven't heard the L in a long time(a dang shame) so I can't compare the two with any accuracy but it's loud enough to make the Navy alter their training paths during a music festival.

https://www.pilotonline.com/military...651cde505.html

Crawford Aug 28, 2019 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 8670873)
"Earsplitting noise" ...Yes, some will be annoyed. But as a health issue? No.

Hearing loss can occur at 80 decibels. Repeated exposure to train noise could cause hearing loss:
https://scienceline.org/2010/11/can-...-your-hearing/

I'm not saying that all, or even most will be affected, but it's an issue. And it isn't just the health risk; some don't like loud noises. When we were apartment-hunting, I wouldn't consider anyplace near Flatbush Ave., since it's a major arterial with tons of traffic. I don't want to hear honking and trucks braking.

PHX31 Aug 28, 2019 2:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8670255)
we have a private deck off the back of the building, a shared brick-paved patio below that, and a very small shared grass yard in front of our building, all connected by the gangway on the side. it's a different kind of outdoor play space than a typical big suburban back yard, but our kids have a ton fun with it none-the-less. they still wave to every train that goes by. and they actually refer to the landing on the exterior wood stairs that go up to our neighbors' units as their "treehouse", and they play in it as kids in a regular tree house would (gotta love city kids!).

there is absolutely zero concern of debris falling from the tracks because there is a 20' deep parking pad and a 22' wide alley ROW between our back "yard" and the elevated tracks.

as for hearing loss, i don't know if that's a real concern or not, but kids have been growing up next to the noisy-ass el tracks of chicago for well over a century now, and i've never heard anyone say anything about it. ie. there's no commonly shared knowledge saying not to do so that i'm aware of. it is pretty fucking loud when a train rumbles by, but it's a very sporadic noise that only lasts for like 5 seconds and then it's gone.

i can see how some people might be annoyed by living so close to the el, but i actually find it really cool. it makes me feel more connected to the big giant city i live within. in a weird way, it was actually kind of a selling point for me. i mean, TRAINS!!!!!!

Time for another "show us your house" or "show us the view from your back yard" thread.

Steely Dan Aug 28, 2019 2:29 PM

^ here's a pic from a year ago of my kids watching an el train roll past our back deck.

https://s14.postimg.cc/4csipzgdt/deck_train.jpg




Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8671184)
I'm not saying that all, or even most will be affected, but it's an issue. And it isn't just the health risk; some don't like loud noises.

i can understand why some people wouldn't like it (hence the "el track discount" when we bought our place), but am i actually worried about sporadic 5 second bursts of 90 decibel sound from el trains rolling by every several minutes causing hearing loss in my children as they play in our back "yard"?

no, not at all.

kids have been growing up next to the el tracks for over a century now, apparently without issue.

the urban politician Aug 28, 2019 3:01 PM

On a related note, I own 2 rental properties that have the L running directly behind them.

One of them is separated by a decent sized yard, so that one hasn't been a problem.

The other one is on N Bissell in the Ranch Triangle area of Lincoln Park and has the L running literally right out the rear window.

Despite being a kick ass apartment, I have often had difficulty getting the top floor apartment rented. My leasing agent tells me that countless prospects love the apartment until they get to the bedroom next to the L. Then they stop, stare out the window, and watch the L go by over and over again.

Afterwards, they leave and never call her back! :haha:

Crawford Aug 28, 2019 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8671346)
Despite being a kick ass apartment, I have often had difficulty getting the top floor apartment rented. My leasing agent tells me that countless prospects love the apartment until they get to the bedroom next to the L. Then they stop, stare out the window, and watch the L go by over and over again.

Afterwards, they leave and never call her back! :haha:

That would be me. Love cities but hate noise. I'd rather take the crappier apartment as long as I don't have ambulance sirens, screeching buses, etc. within earshot of bedroom.

the urban politician Aug 28, 2019 3:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8671363)
That would be me. Love cities but hate noise. I'd rather take the crappier apartment as long as I don't have ambulance sirens, screeching buses, etc. within earshot of bedroom.

I don't know about the L, that's obviously a fixed thing that's going to keep running behind your back door over and over again forever.

But even when I lived out in Queens (Forest Hills) we would hear ambulance sirens, police cars, and honking cars all of the time. And keep in mind that I lived on the 30th floor of an apartment building. It's hard to escape those sounds in cities.

When we lived in Manhattan it was actually less noisy because we were at the back of the building (away from the street), plus I believe NYC must have some sort of law that requires emergency vehicles to switch to a lower decibel siren at nighttime. I really appreciated that when I lived there.

mhays Aug 28, 2019 3:55 PM

If noise means you can't get to sleep, that's a serious health issue.

When back-up alarms were mandated, that must have been a big problem for anyone living near a store with late-night deliveries for example.

I bought my current place on the alley side, on a block where businesses don't have doors to the alley. It's blissfully quiet.

JManc Aug 28, 2019 3:55 PM

The older I get, the less tolerant of urban noise. When I was single, I lived in the middle of Houston and it was noisy AF. Sirens, helicopters, traffic, random human outbursts, etc but now married and banished to the suburbs and I appreciate the quiet. Even if this area has no personality.

SIGSEGV Aug 28, 2019 4:03 PM

Sirens and motorcycles are the biggest noise source for me (1.5 blocks from, with line of sight, to Roosevelt Station). If I open my window at night, I can hear the station announcements though (I think they're supposed to stop being so loud after 10 pm, but they forget sometimes). But still the sirens and motorcycles are much worse. I don't know how small the motorcyclists dicks must be that they make so much noise.

Steely Dan Aug 28, 2019 4:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays (Post 8671460)
If noise means you can't get to sleep, that's a serious health issue.

yes, that would be a problem.

fortunately, the human brain is a phenomenally adaptive organ.

the el trains rolling down our alley kept me awake at times for about the first two weeks after we moved in. my wife took a little longer to adjust, about a month or so. our kids seemed unfazed by it.

it helps that the el noise is a deep rumbling thunder-type sound which, while loud, can be much easier for the brain to block out than the more piercing sounds of an ambulance siren, for example.

however, i'm sure that people who live across the street from hospitals with emergency rooms eventually learn to block out ambulance sirens too.

we really are pretty amazingly adaptable little creatures, and a lot of people who say things like "i could never put up with that" are mostly talking out of their asses, because if they actually lived with it long enough, their brains would learn to put up with it.

now, that doesn't mean that people aren't allowed their preferences, and that those who feel they are more sensitive to noise than others shouldn't seek out what they want, i'm just pointing out that our brains can learn to do some pretty amazing things all on their own, even things we erroneously believe they can't do. like block out el trains rumbling down your alley every 5 minutes all night long.

MonkeyRonin Aug 28, 2019 5:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays (Post 8671460)
If noise means you can't get to sleep, that's a serious health issue.


A big part of that is the regularity of the noise. I grew up next to the 401 freeway (busiest in North America, etc, etc), and was very much acclimated to the constant, round-the-clock roar of traffic.

I now live on a busier street downtown with general constant noise, but the only real problem are the garbage trucks that roll through a couple times a few nights a week (it's fine if my window is closed though).

Aside from those 3AM garbage pickups though, I'm otherwise quite fond of the perpetual "urban symphony" happening outside my window though. The muffled din of conversation, laughter, and music from the patio next door; the rumble of passing streetcars; the occasional siren; my upstairs neighbours' dog running around - love it all.

suburbanite Aug 28, 2019 7:46 PM

At 30 floors up I've grown to love the white noise of the nearby Gardiner Expressway. Might be a different story if I was below the 10th floor right adjacent too it, but as of now the only time I hear a distinguishable noise is when a motorcycle or some rich kid in their Ferrari goes full throttle up the on-ramp. Annoying for the 5 seconds if you're trying to fall asleep, but not enough to wake me up.

Streetside in an older residential neighbourhood is different though. Too much variety of noises at inconsistent times. I absolutely can't deal with screaming kids or barking dogs.

mhays Aug 28, 2019 7:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8671567)
yes, that would be a problem.

fortunately, the human brain is a phenomenally adaptive organ.

the el trains rolling down our alley kept me awake at times for about the first two weeks after we moved in. my wife took a little longer to adjust, about a month or so. our kids seemed unfazed by it.

it helps that the el noise is a deep rumbling thunder-type sound which, while loud, can be much easier for the brain to block out than the more piercing sounds of an ambulance siren, for example.

however, i'm sure that people who live across the street from hospitals with emergency rooms eventually learn to block out ambulance sirens too.

we really are pretty amazingly adaptable little creatures, and a lot of people who say things like "i could never put up with that" are mostly talking out of their asses, because if they actually lived with it long enough, their brains would learn to put up with it.

now, that doesn't mean that people aren't allowed their preferences, and that those who feel they are more sensitive to noise than others shouldn't seek out what they want, i'm just pointing out that our brains can learn to do some pretty amazing things all on their own, even things we erroneously believe they can't do. like block out el trains rumbling down your alley every 5 minutes all night long.

My brain does very different things with "necessary" noise like traffic or construction vs. loud stereos, car alarms, leaf blowers at 6:30 am, barking dogs, etc. The second group pisses me off. Three are minimal due to my location (dense but the interior of a block), and barking dogs get dealt with by my condo association.

Several years ago I lived 200' from a viaduct in central Seattle (the one being demo'd right now). That was good noise...the constant roar drowned out a lot of the annoying noise.

Steely Dan Aug 28, 2019 8:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays (Post 8671765)
My brain does very different things with "necessary" noise like traffic or construction vs. loud stereos, car alarms, leaf blowers at 6:30 am, barking dogs, etc.

good point.


the el trains in our alley don't faze me.

but the obnoxious dickwads who roll around town on their open pipe harleys?

those guys should go fuck themselves.

SIGSEGV Aug 28, 2019 8:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8671795)
good point.


the el trains in our alley don't faze me.

but the obnoxious dickwads who roll around town on their open pipe harleys?

those guys should go fuck themselves.

I think CPD should be allowed to do target practice on the open pipe Harleys.

homebucket Aug 28, 2019 9:02 PM

Loud pipes save lives doe. Huhuhu.

The only thing more annoying might be coal rollers.

craigs Aug 28, 2019 9:06 PM

I don't mind the noise of traffic going by under my upper-floor corner unit. The streetcars a block away aren't noticeable unless they use their air horns to get somebody off the trackway. Airplanes and helicopters are intermittent in terms of noise--sometimes I hear them, usually I don't.

I really hate the unmuffled motorcycles. Those guys are basically the aural equivalent to the assholes smoking cigars in public spaces: "See what I can do to you? Doesn't it suck? Ha ha!" It's even worse when the motorcycle racket sets off car alarms.

On busier nights, we probably get a good dozen loud siren runs past our place between work and bedtime. There are other sirens in the area as well, but as long as the emergency vehicles don't stop nearby, they can be manageable and unobtrusive (if they stop nearby, however, everyone in the 'hood rushes to the windows).

I usually can't manage to sleep through the super-noisy 5:00 am garbage truck runs, but that lasts fewer than five minutes and I'm back to sleep. If I'm awake, I usually notice barking dogs and obnoxiously loud people, but I don't when I'm sleeping.

Overall, I am accustomed to the noise of the city, and I too don't care for silent places. I'm used to the urban symphony, even if there are too many 'virtuosos' at times.

mhays Aug 28, 2019 10:19 PM

Loud motorcycles and loud stereos...yeah those are douchebags.

AviationGuy Aug 31, 2019 4:27 AM

I'm about 10 houses away from the MoPac tracks in north Austin. It's freight trains all day and night, along with Amtrak several times. Next to the tracks is the MoPac expressway/tollway. I'm right under an incoming flight path for approaches to the airport, and the aircraft are at 2,000 to 3,000 ft as they fly over.

When I'm outside, it's noisy as hell. Trains, planes, motorcycles, cars, trucks, sirens. I love the sound of the Amtrak trains, though, as well as the planes. The freight trains are ok unless an engine is idling near by (I absolutely hate that). Until I replaced my old single pane windows, all the noise came inside. And the freight trains caused the windows to rattle. Once I replaced the windows with good quality double panes, all of the sounds are gone except for the one thing I hate...the idling locomotives. That sound penetrates and drives me crazy if I happen to wake up in the middle of the night. I've tried my noise canceling headphones but they're uncomfortable. So I just put up with that.

None of this seems to have any effect on property values except for the houses immediately adjacent to the tracks.

Just thought of something. Before I replaced my windows, one thing that was nuts was garbage trucks emptying dumpsters in the middle of the night. I'm about 1500 ft from the nearest location where this happens, (along a major commercial strip) but when they put the dumpsters down, it's incredibly loud. I don't know if anyone else mentioned this yet.

IMBY Aug 31, 2019 6:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays (Post 8671960)
Loud motorcycles and loud stereos...yeah those are douchebags.

Being I've been with NoiseFreeAmerica for many years, they've given me updates, over the years, on what cities are doing to tackle loud stereo's in cars, which are referred to as Noise Terrorists.

In Oregon, if you "show off" a loud stereo in your car, it's a $1500 fine, and in some jurisdictions the fines have escalated to $2500, and in some jurisdictions, they can impound the vehicle, and in some places in the Deep South, they can even throw you into jail. The decibel levels from some of these car stereo's can reach 140 decibels, beyond the threshold of pain. But they're quite easy to get out of your neighborhood, providing they don't park in a garage.:notacrook:

In Edmonton, Alberta they now have Noise Radar, similar to Speed Radar, whereas you can get a ticket in the mail for having a loud muffle or loud stereo in your car.

The last mayor of NYC, I understand, went on a campaign to make NYC the quietest big city in the country. Car alarms are illegal in NYC, due to excessive vandalism of people annoyed with them waking them up in the middle of the night. Boom cars, no way! And I saw the signs on my last trip to NYC: $350 fine for honking your horn in a residential neighborhood. And I understand police sirens were banned, but ambulance/fire truck sirens were not banned.

People don't realize that Noise is a health hazard. Go ahead an laugh: Extra loud noises can even trigger heart attacks in some people.

The Chemist Aug 31, 2019 9:21 AM

My apartment building backs onto Shanghai's Outer Ring Expressway, which is 4 lanes of jammed or congested traffic in each direction more than 16 hours a day. Sure, with the windows open you get some traffic noise in the bedroom, but with the windows closed most of the sound is pretty much eliminated. And being 24 floors up keeps the noise down quite significantly all by itself.

glowrock Aug 31, 2019 12:05 PM

Only real noise I've had to deal with in my apartment since moving in here several months ago was the nearly constant barrage of firecrackers/fireworks every evening from a couple of weeks before the 4th of July all the way through early August. ;) It's amazing how much Chicagoans love to blow things up! Haha

Aaron (Glowrock)

Sun Belt Aug 31, 2019 12:41 PM

Chicago is unbelievably affordable for a city of its size and scope. I took a stroll through the Wrigleyville area just east of the Redline Addison stop and found numerous listings around 300k and rent as low as $1200. Quiet residential streets, nice trees, walking distance to the El, $1200. This would be around $3,000-4,000 in Southern California.

There's a ton of new condos/apts being built in Marina del Rey. Word of mouth is that the rent is $7,800/month.

Sun Belt Aug 31, 2019 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8671567)
yes, that would be a problem.

fortunately, the human brain is a phenomenally adaptive organ.

the el trains rolling down our alley kept me awake at times for about the first two weeks after we moved in. my wife took a little longer to adjust, about a month or so. our kids seemed unfazed by it.

it helps that the el noise is a deep rumbling thunder-type sound which, while loud, can be much easier for the brain to block out than the more piercing sounds of an ambulance siren, for example.

One of my apartments in Boston was across the street from a Green Line surface T stop. At that intersection, pedestrians and Boston drivers [which, let's admit it, suck] would constantly block the tracks when the T had the signal to proceed.

Instead of the polite trolley "ding ding" you would get the conductor blaring the train horn. Leaning on the horn for 5, 10, 15 seconds. This would happen at 5:30am, 11:30pm -- basically anytime the T was operating.

Like you said, the first 2 weeks, it would wake me up, afterwards I could sleep through anything, including a fire alarm. The FD was in the building by the time I got up and evacuated.

jtown,man Aug 31, 2019 1:10 PM

Yesterday reminded me of this thread. I was at a drive-thru(horror, I know) and a jet interrupted my order and the worker just said repeat...then we were interrupted again so she said repeat again.

I seriously forgot how loud those jets are in Virginia Beach. You could be screaming your order and it still wouldn't be heard.

jtown,man Aug 31, 2019 1:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMBY (Post 8674334)
Being I've been with NoiseFreeAmerica for many years, they've given me updates, over the years, on what cities are doing to tackle loud stereo's in cars, which are referred to as Noise Terrorists.

In Oregon, if you "show off" a loud stereo in your car, it's a $1500 fine, and in some jurisdictions the fines have escalated to $2500, and in some jurisdictions, they can impound the vehicle, and in some places in the Deep South, they can even throw you into jail. The decibel levels from some of these car stereo's can reach 140 decibels, beyond the threshold of pain. But they're quite easy to get out of your neighborhood, providing they don't park in a garage.:notacrook:

In Edmonton, Alberta they now have Noise Radar, similar to Speed Radar, whereas you can get a ticket in the mail for having a loud muffle or loud stereo in your car.

The last mayor of NYC, I understand, went on a campaign to make NYC the quietest big city in the country. Car alarms are illegal in NYC, due to excessive vandalism of people annoyed with them waking them up in the middle of the night. Boom cars, no way! And I saw the signs on my last trip to NYC: $350 fine for honking your horn in a residential neighborhood. And I understand police sirens were banned, but ambulance/fire truck sirens were not banned.

People don't realize that Noise is a health hazard. Go ahead an laugh: Extra loud noises can even trigger heart attacks in some people.


Yeah, the police here in America using radar to fine people for loud music isn't going to work. It may be a law on the book, but it won't be widely enforced. It will be turned into a "racially charged law" or whatever else the media will think up.

cabasse Aug 31, 2019 2:42 PM

the noise of the city is nothing compared to the 100db of my partner snoring loudly next to me, so i wear earplugs. lol

IMBY Aug 31, 2019 2:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 8674397)
Yeah, the police here in America using radar to fine people for loud music isn't going to work. It may be a law on the book, but it won't be widely enforced. It will be turned into a "racially charged law" or whatever else the media will think up.

If the fines are lucrative enough, like with DUI's, they'll go for it! Here, in Tucson the fine for a loud stereo in your car is only $100, and 2nd offense, it doubles to $200, then doubles to $400 for a 3rd offense.

Yes, high rise living, way up, has its advantages, besides the views. I lived on the 38th floor of a high rise in Minneapolis, and with windows closed, you couldn't even hear a siren or firecracker. Far more quiet than being out in the country.

When I moved to my current place in Tucson, walking distance to the Emergency Room at Tucson Medical Center, I thought what a big plus that was, until I started hearing the Emergency Helicopters flying over my community, day and night!

pdxtex Aug 31, 2019 2:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AviationGuy (Post 8674293)
I'm about 10 houses away from the MoPac tracks in north Austin. It's freight trains all day and night, along with Amtrak several times. Next to the tracks is the MoPac expressway/tollway. I'm right under an incoming flight path for approaches to the airport, and the aircraft are at 2,000 to 3,000 ft as they fly over.

When I'm outside, it's noisy as hell. Trains, planes, motorcycles, cars, trucks, sirens. I love the sound of the Amtrak trains, though, as well as the planes. The freight trains are ok unless an engine is idling near by (I absolutely hate that). Until I replaced my old single pane windows, all the noise came inside. And the freight trains caused the windows to rattle. Once I replaced the windows with good quality double panes, all of the sounds are gone except for the one thing I hate...the idling locomotives. That sound penetrates and drives me crazy if I happen to wake up in the middle of the night. I've tried my noise canceling headphones but they're uncomfortable. So I just put up with that.

None of this seems to have any effect on property values except for the houses immediately adjacent to the tracks.

Just thought of something. Before I replaced my windows, one thing that was nuts was garbage trucks emptying dumpsters in the middle of the night. I'm about 1500 ft from the nearest location where this happens, (along a major commercial strip) but when they put the dumpsters down, it's incredibly loud. I don't know if anyone else mentioned this yet.

let me tell you about garbage trucks!! heh, yeah i live in a townhouse across the street from the back end of a string of bars and restaurants....those $%^&*ers are loud as hell. there isnt any law about when they can empty trash though. the argument is day time pickup would cause traffic snarls....so they come at 3 am.....

iheartthed Aug 31, 2019 3:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8671346)
On a related note, I own 2 rental properties that have the L running directly behind them.

One of them is separated by a decent sized yard, so that one hasn't been a problem.

The other one is on N Bissell in the Ranch Triangle area of Lincoln Park and has the L running literally right out the rear window.

Despite being a kick ass apartment, I have often had difficulty getting the top floor apartment rented. My leasing agent tells me that countless prospects love the apartment until they get to the bedroom next to the L. Then they stop, stare out the window, and watch the L go by over and over again.

Afterwards, they leave and never call her back! :haha:

Living next to an elevated train is a dealbreaker for me. When I first moved to NYC I rented a room in an apartment for a few months that was next to an elevated train. If I was in my room on the phone when the train passed I would have to pause the conversation because I couldn't hear anything. Never again.

SIGSEGV Aug 31, 2019 4:02 PM

I'm going to take my condenser mic and record outside my window tonight. Not sure how to calibrate it properly (any good ideas of a fixed-SPL source?), but it should be interesting!

hauntedheadnc Aug 31, 2019 5:19 PM

There are only three major north/south routes through my city and I live on one of them. This means that for a good ten or so hours a day the road in front of my house is a wall of moving metal. It also means cop cars, fire trucks, and ambulances go up and down the road all the time. On top of all that, I used to work nights and my husband still does, so we'd be sleeping when traffic was heaviest. Thankfully the master bedroom is at the back of the house, so the house itself blocks a lot of noise, and earplugs and a fan are usually enough to blunt the rest.

In the rest of the house though, traffic noise is constant.

AviationGuy Sep 1, 2019 5:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 8674397)
Yeah, the police here in America using radar to fine people for loud music isn't going to work. It may be a law on the book, but it won't be widely enforced. It will be turned into a "racially charged law" or whatever else the media will think up.

I think we have ordinances in Austin regarding the boom cars, but it's not enforced. It's all over. If one is several streets over in a neighborhood, everyone hears it.

IMBY Sep 1, 2019 6:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AviationGuy (Post 8674869)
I think we have ordinances in Austin regarding the boom cars, but it's not enforced. It's all over. If one is several streets over in a neighborhood, everyone hears it.

When I moved to Tucson a year ago, I decided to explore the new gentrified downtown area. I wasn't there but an hour and due to the loud, thumping boom cars going down Congress Street, I left. Yup! They build all these new apartment buildings downtown, and don't these people have to go to work in the morning and get a good night's sleep?

Outraged, I did an email campaign to the Tucson City Council members, the Mayor and the Pima County Supervisors, relating to them what other cities have done to crack down on these Noise Terrorists. NoiseFreeAmerica does their Noisy City Awards, occasionally, and I threatened to inform this organization of the unwarranted noise in downtown Tucson.

Apparently, the Mayor sent my email to a Police Captain, and he called me and, unbelievable, I had to tell him there was a $100 fine for loud, thumping boom cars. Fines double with each offense. So, he invited me to return to downtown Tucson the next weekend to see the changes. I didn't return for 6 months later and I have to admit my email campaign was a success.

I talked to an old-timer here about this issue, and he said that way back when, police cars had decimeters in their vehicles to detect unwarranted noise. In Las Vegas, so as not to scare off the tourists/conventioneers with boom cars going up and down the Strip, they have one vehicle with decimeters that patrols the Strip for boom cars.

Given that Tucson has the worst city streets in the nation, I told them in my email, if you're looking for road money, to jack those fines up for boom cars to $1-2000 and you'll get your road money.

By the way, you can buy a decimeter for about $40.

jtown,man Sep 2, 2019 2:37 AM

I think people with really loud music look stupid. However, if all I hear is the "system"...I don't care too much.

It's when someone is stopped at a traffic light or at a gas station with LOUD music blaring FUCK N-word and every other derogatory word in the book. I can't take that person seriously, they are douche bags. Losers. Anti-social.


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