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Busy Bee Jan 13, 2020 6:56 PM

That's it? If theyre not going to repair the entire scar why bother?

maru2501 Jan 13, 2020 7:24 PM

the more developed the W Loop gets the more appealing that is. Starts to take on a "central park" flavor (at a much reduced scale, obviously).

chance for millennium park west for some mayor that probably isn't LL

wwmiv Jan 13, 2020 7:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8798109)
That's it? If theyre not going to repair the entire scar why bother?

Because starting some place can lead to future expansion.

west-town-brad Jan 13, 2020 7:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maru2501 (Post 8798149)
the more developed the W Loop gets the more appealing that is. Starts to take on a "central park" flavor (at a much reduced scale, obviously).

chance for millennium park west for some mayor that probably isn't LL

how are they going to create a park with all the 4-lane overpasses?

jc5680 Jan 13, 2020 8:18 PM

^ They'll have to add a deck on top of the deck, naturally

But really, that is partly why I think Fulton to Randolph or Washington might be the best opportunity. There would be fewer on/exit ramps to deal with or relocate and everything north of Washington is two lanes or could reasonably be reduced to it. Fulton could possibly even be claimed for park or pedestrian only space

I am not sure we have actually every seen a 'real' design proposal but I assume the east west streets aren't going anywhere. Maybe ramps can be consolidated? Mid-block pedestrian crossings wouldn't be so bad if some of the streets are reduced to local traffic rather than just being feeders to the Kennedy. Sets up for a river walk-like design problem where each block segment could be treated as a unique entity that's part of a larger effort.

Chi-Sky21 Jan 13, 2020 8:48 PM

Seems like a lot of money with limited return. I would take that money, sink the tracks in the west loop. It would help north south traffic. Have some of that be parkland. Then you could maybe even have a bike path there all the way out to Western ...from Ogden out it could maybe be on the elevated portion..just an idea

Busy Bee Jan 13, 2020 10:00 PM

You can't sink the Metra tracks. They would have to stay at the grade they are. You could underpass some streets but that grade separation process is not a cheap one which is why so many grade crossings exist, especially in this country where the freight RRs that own most of the infrastructure don't want to make such investments or even prioritize the undertaking unless its payed for by someone else.

ardecila Jan 14, 2020 3:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8798346)
You can't sink the Metra tracks. They would have to stay at the grade they are. You could underpass some streets but that grade separation process is not a cheap one which is why so many grade crossings exist, especially in this country where the freight RRs that own most of the infrastructure don't want to make such investments or even prioritize the undertaking unless its payed for by someone else.

If they are going to grade separate those tracks, it will be accomplished by elevating the tracks onto a viaduct or berm. You probably can't get rid of the crossing at Green St, though, because of Halsted one block east. Either it stays a grade crossing or it gets closed to traffic entirely. The tracks can cross Morgan St at +18'-0" and descend to clear the Halsted overpass at a 1.5% grade. This is basically what the Rock Island does in the South Loop, between passing under Roosevelt and passing over Polk.

Busy Bee Jan 14, 2020 3:25 AM

Ahh the USA, where you make the train do all the work of getting out of the way of the car.

ardecila Jan 14, 2020 3:36 AM

:rolleyes:

Because European and Asian countries never elevate rail lines...

You could also ask, why should pedestrians have to climb a steep overpass or descend into a dank underpass to get across the tracks?

Plus, it's cheaper to build a single structure than build a series of underpasses or overpasses with collateral damage to adjacent buildings from the change in levels, countless utilities to reroute, etc.

Busy Bee Jan 14, 2020 4:36 AM

Man those are elevated electric railways. What you are advocating is a 20 foot bunny hill over a very short distance to be traversed by lumbering diesel locomotives hauling a few hundred thousand pounds a few blocks from a terminal. That's no way to run a railroad.

spyguy Jan 14, 2020 3:56 PM

The revised Optima Lakeview includes one less floor, fewer units, and more parking. Oh and now it's this hulking dark brick midrise (before/after):

https://i.postimg.cc/KjLKnjpP/Screen...1-54-10-PM.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/FFJJtCFY/Screen...1-54-22-PM.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/KvPkjKMF/Screen...1-55-07-PM.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/gkFLGyrN/Screen...1-54-53-PM.jpg

Steely Dan Jan 14, 2020 4:08 PM

^

What?

The?

Fuck?

Busy Bee Jan 14, 2020 4:29 PM

They get what they deserve

Jibba Jan 14, 2020 4:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8799025)
^

What?

The?

Fuck?

Lake.

View.

People.

wwmiv Jan 14, 2020 4:46 PM

This design is much nicer, but the sacrifices made (less units & floors, more parking, etc.), are not worth it.

ardecila Jan 14, 2020 4:49 PM

I'm excited that some people are keeping the Kennedy cap dream alive. I do think the city missed a huge opportunity to plan in advance for the cap as part of the Circle Interchange work. Really no decent park can ever be built there unless IDOT radically reduces the number of on-ramps. I guess you could build the park as a "flying carpet" one level above street level, but you'd still need to climb a 25' flight of steps to get up to it, there would be limited access points and security challenges, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8798697)
Man those are elevated electric railways. What you are advocating is a 20 foot bunny hill over a very short distance to be traversed by lumbering diesel locomotives hauling a few hundred thousand pounds a few blocks from a terminal. That's no way to run a railroad.

It's not a bunny hill, it would simply be an extension of the existing viaduct west of Ogden (which will have to eventually be changed to eliminate the congested A-2 interlocking).

Anyway, not to get too technical.

marothisu Jan 14, 2020 4:56 PM

New design is worse. Its going to look like shit in 15 years. Remember that renderings are almost always better looking than the final physical product.

maru2501 Jan 14, 2020 4:56 PM

yikes. not even half as good as the original

Jibba Jan 14, 2020 5:52 PM

I can imagine that there could be another redesign. In the height reduction, they ate into a lot of the recessed space beyond the sidewalk -- that may have been strategic in illustrating how the compromised plan affects the public aspect of the development.

I actually welcome the addition of the masonry; the original plan is severe in its expanses of glass. It would feel like a hulking mass despite the serrated street-facing elevation (glass in Chicago is very reflective). The biggest loss from nixing the saw-tooth profile are the recesses for cafe space -- no one is going to want to sit in a cave (nor patronize whatever business risks setting up shop in one).


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