..

1. Lane closures on the Kennedy are for tie-replacement on the existing tracks to a. remove slow zones and b. upgrade the speed limit to 70mph

2. There are no construction plans currently for any bypass express tracks. There are several concepts for how and where to locate them but nothing is anywhere near being funded, since even the cheapest option is well over $500 million.

Will OHare expansion be necessary?
 

I'd like to ask a broader question:

Given the global crisis with airlines, escalating fuel prices in the setting of limited fuel reserves, and rising costs of air travel, is the OHare expansion really going to be a good long term investment?

I know for now there are projected increases in air travel over the next 20 years, but did those studies even take into account the lack of available energy sources to fuel such increases? Did anybody (other than a few peak oil "elitists") really consider the impact of this real global problem?

Getting back to the OHare expansion project, I'm seriously wondering if OHare is at or near its peak traffic loads, and that we will begin to see a long, slow decline as we did with passenger train travel 50 years ago.

Perhaps $15 billion (or whatever the new price tag is) is far better spent on expanding & upgrading the area's rail system..

^ Hate to quote myself, but case in point:

Traffic slows at O'Hare
By: Paul Merrion and John Pletz April 27, 2008
Traffic is declining at O'Hare International Airport just as the city of Chicago presses cash-strapped airlines to fund the second phase of the airport's expansion.

^imho about 75% of the expansion project is needed regardless, even if growth in air travel slows down (long term, I don't think it will, but the next few years could certainly be a hiccup). O'hare's old runway configuration is very inefficient and is a major factor in how delayed the airport is. Even if traffic stagnates, it would still be worth major investment, for the national air system to add new parallel runways and extend others to make overall operations more efficient and reliable.

Less concerned about a western terminal or western access road, which are major cost components.

I agree Viva, and though I know we would like rail to get its due (especially TUP) I don't see rail ever seriously supplanting air travel in the future for anything over a few hundred miles. Unless we start building mag-lev's or super high trains interconnecting all over this country I don't see it happening (and think many would still prefer air travel). It simply is not as efficant as airplanes for long range travel for many people.

I could foresee airlines in the future though changing tactics to deal with any long term fuel surges. I could foresee larger planes with less frequency on lighter planes to make cost more efficient. These airlines will make adjustments to deal such factors and they will still thrive because there is sipmly the demand and air travel best meets that demand.

The runway reconfiguration and world gateway program (rennovating the existing terminals) are the key components of O'Hare modernization. The Western Terminal phase along with associated transportation infrastructure is something that can be built in the future to respond to demand as needed.

Keep in mind that the current minor decrease in air traffic is to be expected, not just due to rising operational costs for airlines, but because so much of O'Hare is a construction zone. United and American are rerouting flights to other hubs thanks to the flight caps and to speed their operations anyway. I'd expect to see the numbers pick back up next year, the first full year the new north runway will see operations. A similar thing happened with Atlanta last year, as they saw a record number of operations as a result of decreased congestion thanks to their fifth runway.

The expansion is needed for the long term

Well this thread has been quiet for awhile. Might be a good time to ask...
What is the time frame-if any- for extending the people mover to the parking lots across Rt.45/Mannhiem Rd, closer to the Metra/O'Hare stop?

To me there is nothing awe-inspiring about O'Hare with a few exceptions such as the Hilton hotel, the old air-traffic control tower, and the underground walkway to concourse C. It's so poorly designed, everything from the terminals to the runways. It is the flagship and primary gateway to the world which is why the O'Hare Modernization Program is so vital to Chicagoland. However right now it's a joke.

The last few seconds of this video clip describe O'Hare perfectly. Go ahead, what it.

http://www.youtube.com/v/j5OXNosrU34


I always had a fascination with Midway on the other hand. It's so compact and indeed pleasant. Maybe I just don't have architectural taste, but I love the new Midway terminal building.

I love landing at Midway. It's looks like you're getting ready to land on an charming inner-city street.

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^ When the NIMBY suburbs inevitably lose this drawn-out battle, they will finally realize what total morons they were.

Then spent huge sums of money on litigation for NOTHING. They still lose their homes, they still lose their cemetary, they still have to move....all at a higher financial cost than if they had just gone along with OHare's expansion to begin with.

Brilliant

^ There are only 2 nimby suburbs; Elk Grove Village and Bensenville. All other surrounding suburbs back the expansion. If the voters in Elk Grove Village were made aware of the money that Mayor Johnson has wasted on the futile effort to block O'Hare they might throw him out of office. Johnson should be more concerned with keeping EGV competitive in the "supply chain-warehousing" industries. Many businesses are leaving for lower costs and newer facilities in Carol Stream and Bolingbrook. In the long term I don't see how he is acting in the best interest of his village, when he is trying to neutralize the biggest economic engine in the region, that is O'Hare.

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He is, however, doing a great service to the legal industry. Most of its beneficiaries live outside Elk Grove Village and disproportionately in Chicago proper.

great news on the lifting of flight caps

hopefully with the completion(s) of the runways, we can get rid of all of the slots and caps and Chicago can once again blossom!

While I'm all for Chicago having an efficient, premier airport, is the MASSIVE expenditure on expansion really worth it?

With air travel's future looking bleak, there may be little need for additional capacity beyond the substantial capacity that O'Hare already offers.

Plus, much of the O'Hare expansion is being financed through ticket taxes and through contributions from the airlines. With declining traffic, the number of tickets sold will decline and the airlines won't be very generous - they can't afford to be. In the current state that the air travel industry is in right now, can Chicago afford to complete the expansion plans?

To complete them? Probably not.

The runway reconfiguration is worth doing to reduce delays and increase the thoroughput of takeoffs/departures, particularly in inclement weather. The current configuration of three crisscrossing pairs of parallel runways gives great crosswind flexibility but not much else because of how many conflicting movements there are.

You're right that the new terminals are probably not high priorities, but I think the runways certainly are, and those are probably over half the project cost anyway.

I think that was the intent all along. The City wowed everybody with promises of a western access road, a circumferential road, new rail access, shiny new terminals, etc. But the core of the plan is the airfield reconfiguration. The new terminals and ground transportation has always been used as a sort of carrot-on-a-stick, but I seriously doubt the city will pursue those once the runway improvements are done... you can definitely see this, if you read between the lines on the website.

But that still doesn't change the fact that much of the OMP is funded by airlines that have no cash to spare. Will those airlines, and the city, simply settle for the smaller benefits that Phase I will provide (9L-27R, 10L-28R extension, 10C-28C), without continuing on to Phase II?

Phase II would be partially funded out of ticket taxes/facility charges and FAA grants, so I'd expect partial progress on Phase II, with emphasis on airfield work rather than terminals or access roads.

If the west suburbs really want those ring and access roads, then let them deal with IDOT or the tollway, don't let OMP get distracted by it.

Given the current air travel market, there may not be demand for the additional terminals and gates for a while, but it doesn't hurt to plan and lay groundwork for the eventual need.

I wouldn't be surprised if concerns that UA and AA raised a while back would come into fruition regarding the expansion plan. Expect to see the two center runways of the new configuration axed if O'Hare doesn't see enough A380 and 747-8 traffic to warrant those. Four parallel runways spaced apart enough for trimultaneous operations would still do about 80% of what the full runway reconfiguration aims to accomplish... and they can always go back and build the two center runways if demand warrants. Though it must be noted that future 10C/28C runway is the one causing the big stink over that cemetary.

O'Hare 2nd phase plans
 

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Well, I guess that article addressed all my doubts about the future of the O'Hare expansion plan. I am very surprised that they are still going ahead with the western terminal... I hope they hire somebody good to design it. Norman Foster is a pretty safe choice, but what would a Calatrava terminal be like? :)

^ With Illinois' political clout (aka Dick Durbin), there's no way this is not getting through the FAA.

No, I don't think the FAA will deny it... but it surprises me that the City of Chicago is still pursuing a western terminal, when more runway improvements would fix the problems that currently exist at O'Hare.

Plans for the western terminal, BTW, call for such costly features as access roads (probably using local roads, but eventually freeways) and a tunnel underneath the airfield to extend the People Mover. If the city is smart, they should bore a large-diameter tunnel that could fit both a Blue Line extension and the People Mover.

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How the hell is Bensenville paying for this?

Do they seriously not have other expenses?

I've wondered about that too. I have no idea how much they are paying for lawyers, but it must be a small fortune. It all seems like a complete waste. By the sounds of it, certain areas are already empty. Those areas are officially dead. Who would ever want to buy there now with the future threat of O'Hare expanding in the future if this doesn't go through?

What's the matter with those 30 remaining families? Do they really think by staying that somehow things will return to normal?

It's like those few people who 'successfully' fought eminent domain for 30 years in the Illinois Medical District. I get the idea and importance of doing something out of principle (opposing O'hare Expansion, however, I definitely don't agree with), but at some point one has to wonder what it's worth.

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...cl=1&encType=1

Did those people really "win"? The neighborhood is long gone, and their property value diminished because there is no opportunity for anything other than eventual inclusion in the IMD. So why bother? At some point, you throw in the towel and realize that in the long run, government always wins because it exists in perpetuity and maintains a monopoly on the use of force but I guess the Bensenville knuckleheads would rather punish "The Government" (read: The Taxpayer) with endless lawsuits, legal maneuverings, and construction delays. Didn't the City of Chicago offer everyone far above (like >50% greater than) market value for their properties to avoid eminent domain?

Midway news
 

Midway Airport news, if long term plans for Southwest go ahead (I think they are the only airline still expanding amazingly) then Midway could max out rather soon. The more routes and flights out of Midway the better I say.

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Acording to the FAA, Midway will be capacity constrained in a decade if O'Hare does not expand. This is beacuse delays at O'Hare= more planes queing on the runways, taxiways and gates at O'Hare= daleyed arivials circling around the city and congesting the shared airspace used by all airports in the region.

Midway really only has 2 runways for passenger jets, and not only do they criss-cross (no simultaneous operations), but in certain wind conditions only one can be used for all operations. Seems like Midway would become capacity constrained by its airfield before it does by its terminal facilities, no?

^^^ Don't worry, they will probably just fly the planes in willy nilly anyhow even if it risks collision... Just seems how we do it these days with crowded airports, just shove the planes in anyhow...

How does Midway compare in terms of total flight movements (and delays) to other busy one-runway airports like Gatwick?

new western terminal
 

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Some Articles about and relating to O'Hare
 

New airport building breaks ground this week

By Thomas V. Bona
BusinessRockford.com
Posted Aug 05, 2008 @ 02:53 PM
Last update Aug 05, 2008 @ 05:35 PM

Link to Full Article -> http://www.rrstar.com/news/x90192243...ound-this-week

Excerpt -

ROCKFORD —

Chicago Rockford International Airport is building a home for 747s.

Work is starting this week on a much-anticipated cargo facility that could steal traffic from O’Hare International Airport.

Crews will start laying the foundation for the first building this week, a 70,000-square-foot structure that could handle several large airplanes a day. Ultimately, the project could include 380,000 square feet and bring an estimated $100 million in annual economic impact to the area.

Mayoral aide: City can't afford stained glass windows

Link -> http://www.suntimes.com/news/politic...lass06.article

Excerpt -

The Chicago Sun-Times reported last month that, prior to Rodriguez’s appointment, the Department of Aviation was talking about spending $2 million to bankroll an exhibit of stained glass cabinets made from the extensive window collection of Chicago banking scion E. B. Smith Jr., whose great-grandfather founded the Northern Trust Bank in 1889.

The decision to expand to O’Hare’s three domestic terminals a stained glass exhibit previously confined to the international terminal circumvented the city’s Department of Cultural Affairs, which selects the art that adorns Chicago’s public buildings.

Today, Rodriguez said he is trying to find a way to scale back the fine art exhibit to a level the city and the airlines can afford.

“I don’t necessarily believe it’s a terrible idea. We have it in T-5. When you walk through our lower lobby to our baggage area, it’s in need of something…I’d like to do a little something. I just don’t know what percentage we could…afford,” the commissioner said.

Bensenville Loses
 

Judge clears way for O'Hare-area demolition

By Gerry Smith | Chicago Tribune reporter
1:23 PM CDT, August 7, 2008

A DuPage County judge Thursday gave the City of Chicago permission to begin demolition of more than 500 properties in Bensenville that it has purchased to make way for the O'Hare runway expansion.

About 30 families live in the area.

In July, DuPage Circuit Judge Kenneth Popejoy approved a temporary restraining order that halted Chicago's plans to demolish the homes and ordered an environmental study to guard against the release of any hazardous materials during the demolition.

Bensenville officials made a final plea Thursday against demolition.

At a press conference in front of boarded-up houses, Bensenville officials called the project "a runway to nowhere," arguing that the demolition is unnecessary because the city can't afford the project. They also asserted the demolition would spread toxic materials throughout the village.

Bensenville attorney Joseph Karaganis said Tuesday morning they would ask for a continuance of the injunction while they appeal the decision if the judge ruled in Chicago's favor.

Chicago officials have said the construction of a new southern runway at O'Hare is needed to maintain the airport's economic growth.

It remains unclear when Chicago will be able to complete the project. The Daley administration has set a goal of 2014, but the city has failed to win agreement from the major airlines to fund the second phase.

The southern runway that would displace the majority of the Bensenville neighborhood's residents is the final runway in the massive project. In light of the financial pressures on the airline industry, the city may in the future alter its ambitious airfield design, perhaps resulting in the land now being acquired in Bensenville not being needed for runways.

"Why are you going to destroy this beautiful neighborhood when there's never going to be an O'Hare Modernization Program?" asked Bensenville President John C. Geils.

Link - http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,5503091.story

It's not a beautiful neighborhood anymore.

About Time!

Yes, but Bensenville plans to appeal. Time will tell just how far they are willing to go, and how much legal fees they are willing to pay, to halt this demolition.

I will never forgive the state of Illinois for not intervening in this matter. How much tax dollars have Bensenville and Chicago spent fighting over this? The O'Hare Modernization Act already gives Chicago all the authority it needs plus it's in the overall best interest of the entire region. There must be no less than two dozen Chicago attorneys who'll be able to retire comfortably when all this is said and done thanks to Bensenville.

I wonder how Bensenville is still solvent anyway. It has a powerful industrial base but that pales in the face of the millions on attorney's fees fighting this thing to the bitter end. Plus a huge chunk of their taxbase has been wiped out thanks to the tax-free emminet domain powers of King Daley. :cool:

Plus I may be the only one on the forums who thinks this weakened tax base may prelude to annexation. Chicago and Wood Dale can swoop in and divvy up the good stuff. :D

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I'm not sure what the state could have done or what you were looking for it to do. This is a constitutional taking issue, so it would have gone through the courts regardless of state law. Did you expect Blago to hold counseling sessions for the two cities?

Painsenville
 

this little hamlet is pullling out all the stops. but how can u argue a case already decided at the fed level?

:(
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,5546837.story

Judge puts demolition for O'Hare expansion on hold
By Art Barnum

Tribune reporter

9:59 AM CDT, August 11, 2008

The demolition of more than 500 Bensenville homes to make room for a new O'Hare Airport runway was delayed for at least 30 days on Monday by DuPage Judge Kenneth Popejoy.

Popejoy, who last week ruled that Chicago could begin demolition of the properties, said that he was issuing the order to allow attorneys for Bensenville to file an appeal with the 2nd District Illinois Appellate Court of his ruling.

Popejoy said that he was confident that his ruling last week was correct , "but Bensenville deserves the chance to appeal. But the delay granted by me ends on Sept. 10 and any further delay will be up to the appellate court."

Some resident lawyer has to be doing this work for the village of Bensenville pro bono (aka as charity). There is no way Bensenville would have this kind of cash.

You should read up on the amount of lawsuits being filed by Bensenville. The Eminent Domain ones were filed in the beginning and have long since been decided. Those were legitimate. Most of the new lawsuits filed by Bensenville are clearly stalling tactics. Also, the millions needed to fund Bensenville's frivolous legal battles are taxpayer funded.

The state has a lot of influence, but it has been largely absent from Chicago's battle with Bensenville. I think this shows lack of leadership. The only people benefiting from this long drawn-out legal battle are the attorneys.

Daley just needs to go Meigs on their asses...

Every bit of Daley-controlled O'Hare that is expanded means less demand for a State-controlled boondoggle airport in Peotone, so why should they cooperate (or put another way, why should taxis ever treat buses kindly?).

Ah, politics. How could I forget? ;)

Why is the state pushing so hard for Peotone anyway? There are obvious benefits (an airport serving residents in the distant south suburbs, reducing congestion at O'Hare), but the negative consequences far exceed any benefits. (inconvenience passengers by being located far from the civilization, lack of rail infastrcture, and billions of dollars spent paving over productive farmland, etc...)