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hehehe Oct 8, 2022 2:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9755007)
Yes for sure you can do that but you don't want to make it a habit by sending passenger to your competitor lol. I imagine that the competitors wouldn't give WS bottom of the barrel pricing either relative to KL and AF but I do not know this for sure.

But it's not really a 'habit' per se, but done in the case of a cancellation or significant delay. And WS is dealing with these sort of problems already anyways. If it was hurting their bottom dollar why would they double down and make it worse?

zahav Oct 8, 2022 8:15 PM

We'll see what WS will do with this new YYC global hub, it is so hard to say with them. I agree with what others said, there are other components to this announcement that actually mean more (the training, trades support, tourism partnership). But I don't really know how the government is able to force something like this, seems very heavy handed:

WestJet will grow its mid-range fleet and strengthen its North American offerings, with its commitment to double capacity in Calgary before the end of the decade

IMO that is a pretty lofty goal. It is over 10 years I guess, but still. I feel like they have not gained domestically for years, their US service is decently strong but nothing earth shattering. And they have all but abandoned the Eastern markets. Granted, this was during COVID and things were horrific for travel, but still. I feel like their actions recently demonstrate limited growth, and they themselves said they are refocusing on the West, and more towards leisure travel essentially. Now here's this grand announcement calling YYC a "Global Hub" and bragging about their Dreamliners and connectivity? I don't know, it seems more for PR and advertising a business-friendly governemnt than real plans for this capacity growth. Either they start looking at more widebodies for true international growth, or they expect 50% growth by boosting Brandon, Saskatoon, and Penticton lol no offence to these places at all. But I can't see WS growing that much with it's current trajectory, government partnership or not. I could see them converting summer seasonal flights to year round as a first step, since year-round direct service is a key hallmark of a "global hub". Ie. Dublin, Paris, Rome. They already added AMS. They might re-add BCN, and possibly add FRA. Then they'd turn to Asia. Since they are now fully in with the Skyteam crowd, despite not formally being a member, they would probably focus on Asian cities with a Skyteam dominant home carrier. ICN then PVG. And then Tokyo is also a safe bet, despite no SkyTeam presence. The travel, tourism, and business markets are there (hence why AC operated it for so many years). If WS added it, it wouid just be replacing the AC service. I can't see PEK, HKG, or TPE to be honest, at least for a while. The China situation is still so bad, they'd not want to risk it. I think the growth might just be by cutting direct flights between other cities and instead have them connect in YYC. You can fairly quickly bump your traffic numbers up if all of a sudden the entire network stops there. I don't think this will bode well for them; if airlines like Flair, Lynx, Jetlines do stick around (that's a big if), their point to point services will be popular. And they are cheap. It will be hard to convince people to pay more to fly from YVR anywhere out east and stop in Calgary, when they could fly a ton of other options direct. Certainly this mystery international expansion will be key for them to become more of a hub than it already is, and it will be geared towards Western Canadians connecting in YYC. I think the amount of US-origin pax is fairly small, despite the Delta codeshares, their main client base is Western Canadians. Especially compared to Air Canada's vast amount of US pax connecting through it's Canadian hubs, WS is still very limited in this area.

This is basically a good news story for YYC and a bad news story for basically every other destination. YVR, YEG, and YYZ are obviously the ones that stand to be most affected. They've thrown up the white flag at Pearson in so many ways, this formal announcement calling Calgary it's only connecting hub is basically like a final nail in the coffin. A big part of their YYZ strategy was to collect flights from all points east, and then connect them somewhere else in the WS network (US, Western Canada, Caribbean, etc.). Now that they've slashed their Eastern flights and Encore, and they aren't getting any Dreamliners, it means their service will be limited to 737s, some maybe UK destinations will stick around. They have so much competition on Caribbean routes, it's becoming very crowded, who knows if they will dial it back or transfter to Swoop or Sunwing even?

YEG will of course be limited in what they get, connecting in YYC will become even more widespread. This Alberta announcement was not for the whole province lol, it was like a diss to YEG really, they will want as much feeder traffic as they can get.

I don't think YVR's international (Mexico) or transborder service will be affected that much, I feel like WS has a good solid piece of those markets here, they won't want to rock the boat and make people fly to YYC and then to SFO. Maybe some Mexico service will be rerouted through YYC, but they might keep the status quo. I think where YVR might "suffer" is in domestic flights. We have decent service across the country, but not super extensive, especially nothing compared to YYC. But for most destinations other than within BC, YYC, or YEG, you already have to connect in YYC! YQR and YXE especially, their service is so spotty now, it's a guaranteed YYC connection. Only idiots from YVR would connect in YYC to get to destinations back within BC, but hey, some might be stupid enough to do it. So the only routes I can see going down in frequency are YYZ and YWG, because they can so easily connect you in YYC. But again, these domestic flights have so many options on different carriers; WS causing travel to take longer and not even being the cheapest anymore is not a winning formula.

But it would certainly be a nod to the early years of WS operations, when flying from YVR to YQR had multiple stops, for instance. My aunt once flew YVR-YLW-YYC-YEG-YXE... But it was cheap, so people did it.

They used to codeshare with lots of OneWorld members as well, so they were on the fence between the two alliances for as long time.

hehehe Oct 8, 2022 9:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9755468)
We'll see what WS will do with this new YYC global hub, it is so hard to say with them. I agree with what others said, there are other components to this announcement that actually mean more (the training, trades support, tourism partnership). But I don't really know how the government is able to force something like this, seems very heavy handed:

WestJet will grow its mid-range fleet and strengthen its North American offerings, with its commitment to double capacity in Calgary before the end of the decade

IMO that is a pretty lofty goal. It is over 10 years I guess, but still. I feel like they have not gained domestically for years, their US service is decently strong but nothing earth shattering. And they have all but abandoned the Eastern markets. Granted, this was during COVID and things were horrific for travel, but still. I feel like their actions recently demonstrate limited growth, and they themselves said they are refocusing on the West, and more towards leisure travel essentially. Now here's this grand announcement calling YYC a "Global Hub" and bragging about their Dreamliners and connectivity? I don't know, it seems more for PR and advertising a business-friendly governemnt than real plans for this capacity growth. Either they start looking at more widebodies for true international growth, or they expect 50% growth by boosting Brandon, Saskatoon, and Penticton lol no offence to these places at all. But I can't see WS growing that much with it's current trajectory, government partnership or not. I could see them converting summer seasonal flights to year round as a first step, since year-round direct service is a key hallmark of a "global hub". Ie. Dublin, Paris, Rome. They already added AMS. They might re-add BCN, and possibly add FRA. Then they'd turn to Asia. Since they are now fully in with the Skyteam crowd, despite not formally being a member, they would probably focus on Asian cities with a Skyteam dominant home carrier. ICN then PVG. And then Tokyo is also a safe bet, despite no SkyTeam presence. The travel, tourism, and business markets are there (hence why AC operated it for so many years). If WS added it, it wouid just be replacing the AC service. I can't see PEK, HKG, or TPE to be honest, at least for a while. The China situation is still so bad, they'd not want to risk it. I think the growth might just be by cutting direct flights between other cities and instead have them connect in YYC. You can fairly quickly bump your traffic numbers up if all of a sudden the entire network stops there. I don't think this will bode well for them; if airlines like Flair, Lynx, Jetlines do stick around (that's a big if), their point to point services will be popular. And they are cheap. It will be hard to convince people to pay more to fly from YVR anywhere out east and stop in Calgary, when they could fly a ton of other options direct. Certainly this mystery international expansion will be key for them to become more of a hub than it already is, and it will be geared towards Western Canadians connecting in YYC. I think the amount of US-origin pax is fairly small, despite the Delta codeshares, their main client base is Western Canadians. Especially compared to Air Canada's vast amount of US pax connecting through it's Canadian hubs, WS is still very limited in this area.

This is basically a good news story for YYC and a bad news story for basically every other destination. YVR, YEG, and YYZ are obviously the ones that stand to be most affected. They've thrown up the white flag at Pearson in so many ways, this formal announcement calling Calgary it's only connecting hub is basically like a final nail in the coffin. A big part of their YYZ strategy was to collect flights from all points east, and then connect them somewhere else in the WS network (US, Western Canada, Caribbean, etc.). Now that they've slashed their Eastern flights and Encore, and they aren't getting any Dreamliners, it means their service will be limited to 737s, some maybe UK destinations will stick around. They have so much competition on Caribbean routes, it's becoming very crowded, who knows if they will dial it back or transfter to Swoop or Sunwing even?

YEG will of course be limited in what they get, connecting in YYC will become even more widespread. This Alberta announcement was not for the whole province lol, it was like a diss to YEG really, they will want as much feeder traffic as they can get.

I don't think YVR's international (Mexico) or transborder service will be affected that much, I feel like WS has a good solid piece of those markets here, they won't want to rock the boat and make people fly to YYC and then to SFO. Maybe some Mexico service will be rerouted through YYC, but they might keep the status quo. I think where YVR might "suffer" is in domestic flights. We have decent service across the country, but not super extensive, especially nothing compared to YYC. But for most destinations other than within BC, YYC, or YEG, you already have to connect in YYC! YQR and YXE especially, their service is so spotty now, it's a guaranteed YYC connection. Only idiots from YVR would connect in YYC to get to destinations back within BC, but hey, some might be stupid enough to do it. So the only routes I can see going down in frequency are YYZ and YWG, because they can so easily connect you in YYC. But again, these domestic flights have so many options on different carriers; WS causing travel to take longer and not even being the cheapest anymore is not a winning formula.

But it would certainly be a nod to the early years of WS operations, when flying from YVR to YQR had multiple stops, for instance. My aunt once flew YVR-YLW-YYC-YEG-YXE... But it was cheap, so people did it.

They used to codeshare with lots of OneWorld members as well, so they were on the fence between the two alliances for as long time.

You bring up some great points. The only thing I'd disagree on is the US connections. WS has repeatedly said that they're seeing a lot of US-YYC-Europe itineraries and from their current success with this, they're aiming on expanding that sector if that makes sense. So I wouldn't say the amount of US origin pax is small, since it's a major reason why they're pursuing European flights from YYC and specifically timing LAX, LAS, PHX, SEA, PDX etc flights to connect to the European ones.

zahav Oct 9, 2022 3:38 AM

Fair enough, I really didn't think there was that much of a US feed for their European service. I didn't think London would be a big draw because those western US cities have good service of their own to London, but I certainly don't know enough to say for sure. But you're right, I could see ROM, DUB, and CDG getting some connections. Time will tell, but I agree with others, AMS and ICN would be two top contenders. But that 7 plane limit is a challenge, so I think the article was a bit of a puff piece in some ways (and seems discussions on other threads have the same take)

LO 044 Oct 9, 2022 6:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9755502)
So I wouldn't say the amount of US origin pax is small...

It's large relative to only having 7 787's. It's puny compared to the connections AC gets at their three hubs. It's puny for an airline wanting YYC to be a global connecting hub. You would think WS would have setup their hub at YVR so a LAX-YVR-DUB or a LAX-YVR-ICN itinerary would work. I'm assuming they retreated to YYC as to not compete with AC or any other international airline flying in to YVR.

hollywoodcory Oct 9, 2022 7:13 AM

As opposed to flying LAX-YYC-DUB? It was noted above WS already has scheduled some US flights to connect to its TATL routes out of YYC. So those itineraries are already possible.

You can actually fly either of WS inbound LAX-YYC flights and connect on to WS6 to DUB.

Dominion301 Oct 11, 2022 1:53 AM

I wonder what the heck WS are going to do with all their LGW slots?

It would seem crazy to give those up.

YYCguys Oct 11, 2022 8:59 AM

Pre pandemic, a friend of mine in the UK, flew WS twice to the US entirely on WS metal (once connecting in YYC to LAS and the other time connecting in YYZ to Florida for a cruise) and said it was cheaper to fly WS and connect in Canada than to fly with any UK/European carrier directly. Wonder if the same holds true now.

casper Oct 11, 2022 9:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 9756885)
Pre pandemic, a friend of mine in the UK, flew WS twice to the US entirely on WS metal (once connecting in YYC to LAS and the other time connecting in YYZ to Florida for a cruise) and said it was cheaper to fly WS and connect in Canada than to fly with any UK/European carrier directly. Wonder if the same holds true now.

Cheaper means at that moment in time every other airline offering a seat on that route is making more money.

On any given flight WS is going to have passengers on a specific flight that are profitable. It is also going to have passengers who may be a financial loss but they are making more money than running with an empty seat. We just don't know where that dividing line is.

I know of people out of LAX connecting on WS to Europe on booking made by the cruise lines. Increasing the cruise lines are giving "free air" with the cruise booking. When that happens the cruise line is buying the ticket and it will always go for the cheapest flight available.

The major cruise ports in Europe are London, Barcelona, Rome and Venice. With the more minor ones being Copenhagen and Lisbon.

thenoflyzone Oct 11, 2022 6:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9756727)
I wonder what the heck WS are going to do with all their LGW slots?

It would seem crazy to give those up.

They can always lease out the slots they don’t need.

thenoflyzone Oct 13, 2022 1:01 PM

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...851845104.html

Quote:


Air Canada to Launch New Services to Europe; Restores Key International Routes, Frequencies Beginning Summer 2023

New Montreal-Toulouse, Montreal-Copenhagen, Toronto-Brussels
Resumes Vancouver-Osaka, Toronto-Tokyo/Haneda
Other services restored to Europe, South America, Middle East, Africa, Asia, and South Pacific

MONTREAL, Oct. 13, 2022 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada today announced the strategic expansion of its international network for summer 2023, with the addition of new European services to Brussels, Toulouse and Copenhagen. It is also resuming key Asia services to Tokyo-Haneda and Osaka, and is restoring frequencies to leading destinations in the Atlantic, Pacific and South America regions. We continue to pursue our disciplined approach of expanding our global network in response to anticipated demand. We are especially pleased to be adding three new strategic routes to Europe, resuming important services to Japan, and increasing frequencies to key international destinations for summer 2023," said Mark Galardo, Senior Vice President Network Planning and Revenue Management at Air Canada.

"Toronto-Brussels will complement our current services from Montreal, while further expanding Air Canada's reach to Europe and beyond through our Star Alliance partner Brussels Airlines, which offers easy connections throughout Europe and Africa. Meanwhile, our Montreal-Toulouse route not only links two global aerospace centres, it is the only year-round service between North America and southwestern France. We are also increasing our presence in Scandinavia with the addition of summer service from Montreal to Copenhagen, a Star Alliance hub that offers connections throughout Northern Europe, while enabling customers on both sides of the Atlantic to visit and explore each other's countries conveniently.

"Our additional flights to major destinations in Europe, Middle East, South America, South Pacific and Asia, including London Heathrow, Frankfurt and Tokyo/Haneda, will support local tourism and hospitality sectors as customers in all six continents reconnect, visit and explore. Customers can start planning ahead and book with confidence. We look forward to welcoming you onboard," said Mr. Galardo.

In preparation for next year's operations, Air Canada continues to work with governments and other partners on the ongoing recovery of the air transport industry from the effects of the pandemic.

nname Oct 13, 2022 5:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9759046)

AC really learned to not release the schedule before the PR. Most the new service and increase not yet show up in the schedule except the one we already know for a some time, but some flights are moved around to make way for the new flights:

YUL-NCE moved to AC814 to make way for YUL-TLS at 878.
YVR-FRA moved to AC838 to make way for additional YUL-FRA at 846.

Notably missing are all the reductions, and resumption or planned increase of the following routes... guess they are not finalized yet?
YYZ-HKG
YYZ-ICN
YYZ-YUL-MXP

Looks like it's confirmed that YYZ-NRT will replace YYC-NRT, as it takes both the slot and the flight number.

Coldrsx Oct 13, 2022 8:53 PM

YEG has a new (and familiar) CEO.

https://flyeia.com/corporate/media/n...unces-new-ceo/

thenoflyzone Oct 14, 2022 1:42 PM

In the AC press release, they mention DXB will go up to daily service as well. However, since its a B789 operating, its a reduction in seats compared to the 6x weekly 400 seater B77W that was planned as of January.

Dominion301 Oct 15, 2022 3:01 AM

September pax stats for YOW:

Sector / Sep-21 / Sep-22 / % Change
Dom: 172,778 / 276,775 / +60.2%
TB: 0 / 14,746 / #DIV/0!
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 172,778 / 291,521 / +68.7%

Sector / YTD 2021 / YTD 2022 / % Change
Dom: 658,957 / 1,963,044 / +197.9%
TB: 0 106,969 / #DIV/0!
Int'l: 0 42,722 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 658,957 / 2,112,735 / +220.6%

Month-Over-Month Change
Sector / Aug-21 / Sep-21 / % Change
Dom: 313,159 / 276,775 / -11.6%
TB: 15,691 / 14,746 / -6.0%
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 328,850 / 291,521 / -11.4%
Avg/Day: 10,608 / 9,717 / -8.4%

September 2022 % of September 2019% traffic level = 69.5%
YTD TTL vs 2019 YTD = 54.4%

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2020
Dom: 2,448,037 / +137.2%
TB: 118,211 / -27.5%
Int'l: 58,319 / -65.4%
TTL: 2,624,567 / +92.5% - back up to 1989 & 1994 traffic levels.

Dominion301 Oct 15, 2022 3:44 AM

YWG's pax stats through June 2022

Sector / Jun-21 / Jun-22 / % Change
Dom: 47,621 / 288,159 / +505.1%
TB: 0 / 16,599 / #DIV/0!
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 47,621 / 304,758 / +540.0%

Sector / YTD 2021 / YTD 2022 / % Change
Dom: 217,697 / 1,095,077 / +403.0%
TB: 2,106 / 74,285 / +3,427.3%
Int'l: 0 / 35,946 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 219,803 / 1,205,308 / 448.4%

Month-Over-Month Change
Sector / May-22 / Jun-22 / % Change
Dom: / 250,068 / 288,159 / +15.2%
TB: 14,154 / 16,599 / +17.3%
Int'l: 328 / 0 / -100.0%
TTL: 264,550 / 304,758 / +15.2%
Avg/Day: 8,534 / 10,159 / +19.0%
% of month's 2019 traffic = 82.7%
YTD TTL vs 2019 = 54.1%

12 Months Rolling to June 2022 / % Change vs Year End 2020
Dom: 2,071,492 / +101.0%
TB: 93,300 / -30.3%
Int'l: 43,767 / -67.5%
TTL: 2,208,559 / +70.0%

Coldrsx Oct 18, 2022 9:38 PM

Monthly passenger stats September 2022​

Terminal​

Terminal Traffic: 503,352 passengers ( 3,857,598 Year-to-date)
Domestic 460,880 passengers (3,427,002 Year-to-date)
Transborder 31,625 passengers (267,961 year-to-date)
International 10,847 passengers (162,635 year-to-date)

Here are the factors in order of importance depressing our numbers imo:
Business travel down and people have found a way to do more work without it
Less connections happening at YEG particularly with Westjet. This takes a big chunk out of numbers pretty quickly
Individuals concerns/reluctance to travel as COVID still circulates some aren't ready for plane travel
Inflation and finances affecting discretionary travel

Next few weeks will be a happy time around the airport as there are a few flights (re)starting:

October 30th - Nanaimo - Westjet
October 31st - Vancouver - Lynx
November 1st - Los Angeles (LAX) - Flair
November 2nd - Puerto Vallarta - Flair
November 6th - Cancun - Air Canada

BASE on SRC
https://edmonton.skyrisecities.com/f...6#post-1872420

casper Oct 21, 2022 3:26 AM

Does not look like this has been discussed yet. WestJet and Pacific Costal enter a codeshare agreement.

CALGARY, AB and VANCOUVER, BC, Oct. 18, 2022 /CNW/ - Today, WestJet and Pacific Coastal Airlines launched a reciprocal interline relationship, the first interline collaboration for Pacific Coastal Airlines.

Guests can now purchase a single ticket from either airline for travel involving connecting flights between their networks. Guests will enjoy the confidence of optimized connecting times and the convenience of checking in and receiving boarding passes for all flights at the first point of departure.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...825672944.html

Interesting move. Flying Pacific Costal is fantastic. Friendly staff, great experience. Out of Victoria I have used them up to Prince George a few times.

Vancouver is going to be the odd location. Pacific Costal operates out of the South Terminal. It is a pain to have to transfer between the south terminal and main terminal.

Despite the announcement I tried doing some booking and the connecting options are still not available on each others sites.

hehehe Oct 21, 2022 3:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9767493)
Does not look like this has been discussed yet. WestJet and Pacific Costal enter a codeshare agreement.

CALGARY, AB and VANCOUVER, BC, Oct. 18, 2022 /CNW/ - Today, WestJet and Pacific Coastal Airlines launched a reciprocal interline relationship, the first interline collaboration for Pacific Coastal Airlines.

Guests can now purchase a single ticket from either airline for travel involving connecting flights between their networks. Guests will enjoy the confidence of optimized connecting times and the convenience of checking in and receiving boarding passes for all flights at the first point of departure.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...825672944.html

Interesting move. Flying Pacific Costal is fantastic. Friendly staff, great experience. Out of Victoria I have used them up to Prince George a few times.

Vancouver is going to be the odd location. Pacific Costal operates out of the South Terminal. It is a pain to have to transfer between the south terminal and main terminal.

Despite the announcement I tried doing some booking and the connecting options are still not available on each others sites.

Unfortunately you can only book the flights with an interline using a travel agent.

peytol Oct 21, 2022 2:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9767493)
Does not look like this has been discussed yet. WestJet and Pacific Costal enter a codeshare agreement.

CALGARY, AB and VANCOUVER, BC, Oct. 18, 2022 /CNW/ - Today, WestJet and Pacific Coastal Airlines launched a reciprocal interline relationship, the first interline collaboration for Pacific Coastal Airlines.

Guests can now purchase a single ticket from either airline for travel involving connecting flights between their networks. Guests will enjoy the confidence of optimized connecting times and the convenience of checking in and receiving boarding passes for all flights at the first point of departure.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...825672944.html

Interesting move. Flying Pacific Costal is fantastic. Friendly staff, great experience. Out of Victoria I have used them up to Prince George a few times.

Vancouver is going to be the odd location. Pacific Costal operates out of the South Terminal. It is a pain to have to transfer between the south terminal and main terminal.

Despite the announcement I tried doing some booking and the connecting options are still not available on each others sites.

I really doubt this agreement would stimulate enough demand, but an airside shuttle from the westjet gates to the south terminal would be great for PASCO, Even if it only ran at peak connecting times.


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