Oh nevermind - that rendering is of MoAD in SF. Well, I hope what they are planning in Sd looks just as nice. It looks like ccdc tried to post an updated rendering to the 7th and market project but I can't access it, it just shows up ans a red X

People have, over the years, come up with various renditions of the urban sprawl extending down the west coast of the united states.

San Diego is never considered a suburb though, but one of the major cities that contributes to the sprawl.

SanSan (see wikipedia) is used to describe the sprawl down the coast of CA from SF to SD

San Angeles (also described in a wikipedia article) has been used in futuristic movies and books to describe one huge urban area that includes Los Angeles and San Diego

Then of course, we also have TJ to add to the mix. It's interesting to note that TJs geographic proximity to SD would make it part of our "urban metro area" if it were not in another country, raising our "metro" population from 3 to 5 million.

What I am wondering (and kind of hoping) is that the fires will further steer San Diego's future growth to density in the urban core as opposed to far-flung sprawl

We can only hope... but I am in agreement.

I am not an expert on rural stuff... but it's my understanding now is that there is no County Fire Department. And, fighting fires is largely left to volunteer fire fighters. Of course, they probably get funding from the county... but county fire fighting is not fully funded as a full-time fire fighting crew.

So... I'd think that rural areas.. if they really want full-time fire fighting staff on hand... that they should fully fund that activity with a special assessment or something. The whole county should not have to bare that financial burden if they are the one choosing to live in gasoline. Right? Or, the county board of supervisors could/should create that assessemnt as a requirement before allowing peeps to rebuild, if legally possible.

The point... the greater the burden there is to build or rebuild in rural East County... the greater the desire or need there will be to densify the urban core... which is good from an urban effeciency point of view.

1. Most people won't be getting any insurance checks to rebuild for several months. They will get checks to cover displacement which will help cover rent in a new place.
2. Building plans need to be approved. In the county, expect 2-3 months.
3. 2 years ago, SD was building 14,000 homes, this year maybe 9,000 permits will be issued. 1600 additional permits over a 2-3 year span will have zero effect on prices except for maybe the demo contractors who will have plenty of work for a while.

Just rename SoCal, San Andreas.

GROVE STREET!!!

Its not a rendering but the actual MoAD. The lead planner for CCDC told me that they are requiring Related Cos (7th & Market) to provide a cultural space that is on-par with MoAD. In fact, the entire team took a trip to MoAD in order to understand what needed to be done!

Satellite view of the Fires
http://signonsandiego.lamphost.net/a...1024terra2.jpg

Some Interesting Vids

Time Lapse
Harris Fire 2007(near my hood in San Diego)
• Video Link

Cedar Fire (from 2003)
• Video Link

Smoky San Diego Skyline 2007
• Video Link

So how about them Chargers? :)

They own.

Not good enough to go toe-to-toe with the Patriots/Colts, but we'll get there.

We will see about the Colts in a few weeks. ;)

Holly CRAP! A United A319 just flew by my window with flames shooting out of it's right engine. At first I thought a helicopter was flying by because of the puh-puh-puh sound.

Looks like it landed ok though. No smoke over Lindbergh. The next three planes were called off but the fourth landed so it must not have been too serious.

Freakin' scary.

Seriously? 'Cause I could have sworn I heard a plane coming in that sounded lounder than normal within the past 20 minutes. Come to think of it... I see them come in and I don't hear any of them. I didn't think to look.

Where was this pic taken from?

^^^ Probably The Mark... which is on Market between 8th & 9th as I recall.

This definitely didn't sound like a plane. It really sounded like an extremely loud military chopper. Still haven't found anything on the news about it.

That entire area is actually filling in quite nicely.

Way cool videos!! :banana: Thanks!

Hey guys, there's some good new stuff on CCDC's interactive map, the update was Monday (today/yesterday depending on when you're reading this), if anyone wants to begin a new homework assignment and upload some of the new photos, I'm sure we'll be grateful, I'm merely passing the buck due to time constraints.

I love satellite photos!! Look at that weird greenish color of the Sea of Cortez around San Felipe??? Creepy:sly:

what are they going to do to 225 Broadway (the NBC building)?

I saw a sign saying it's going to be remodeled?

As long as it looks better than it does now, then I'm happy.

Hi everyone.

Frequent reader, infrequent poster, but bucking the trend with an interesting article from San Diego Metropolitan's Daily Business Report about retail absorption in downtown S.D. Long story short, retail expansion is slowing temporarily due to the slowing housing market, but long-term outlook is positive with lots of new hotel rooms on the horizon and a steady backlog of condo projects.

---

The completion of 425,000 square feet of new commercial retail space over the past 12 months -- along with the postponement of several planned mixed-use redevelopment projects -- have contributed to Downtown’s first negative retail absorption since at least 2001, reports Burnham Urban Retail Group. That was the year Burnham first started studying the Downtown commercial market.

The Burnham report shows that as of Aug. 31, the Downtown retail market had -88,472 square feet of net absorption. This compares to the same time a year ago when net absorption was 39,428 square feet.

"Available retail inventory in downtown San Diego has increased due to the near simultaneous completion of over 400,000 square feet new space," says Bill Shrader, senior v.p. and principal with Burnham Urban Retail Group. "Additionally, the pause in the construction of several condominium projects has returned some existing retail space to the market, which is adding to the vacancy rate."

Shrader noted that it is because retailers in general see tremendous long-term opportunity Downtown that many are putting off their decision to operate Downtown until new or planned projects are complete. "Retailers recognize that San Diego is successfully transforming into a thriving 24/7 urban center. More importantly, they recognize that the slowdown in new residential construction is temporary and they want to be ready to move quickly once development resumes," he says.

Adding to the stability of the Downtown retail market is the nearly 2,500 new hotel rooms that are being added to the market over the next 24 months. Hotels under construction include the soon-to-be completed 420-room Hard Rock Hotel in Gaslamp Quarter, 1,200-room Hilton Convention Center Hotel, and a 239-room Residence Inn. The 210-room Hotel Indigo will break ground in the Ballpark District within the next three months and will be followed by a 344-room Marriott Renaissance Hotel in Gaslamp in 2008. Additionally, Marriott has announced plans for an additional 1,650-room hotel just east of Petco Park.

"In essence, Downtown’s next wave of construction is new hotel development to serve San Diego’s growing tourism and convention industry," says Corinna Gattasso, v.p. and co-founder of Burnham Urban Retail Group. "Retailers recognize the sales potential from the increased spending money visitors bring with them."

Retailers also will continue to benefit from renewed office development Downtown. Cisterra’s DiamondView Tower is 90 percent leased, and American Equities Plaza (developed by Lankford) is 85 percent leased. On the horizon is a 685,000-square-foot office tower planned by The Irvine Co. that will break ground soon at Broadway and Kettner."The residential, hotel and office growth Downtown has created the right mix of use and the synergy to support a thriving retail environment," says Gattasso.

Planned and under construction retail space currently totals 575,291 square feet, 75 percent of which is a multi-level power center planned for development on the former Unocal site adjacent to Petco Park. This compares to 2005 when there were 1,129,341 square feet of new space planned or under construction, 64 percent of which was located in the East Village area near Petco Park.

"The market will steadily absorb the current supply of available space, particularly with the temporary slowdown in new construction," says Shrader.

The Burnham study says there are 5,005,561 square feet of retail inventory in Downtown. This is up from total inventory of 4,575,607 in 2006, an increase that is due in part to 200,000 square feet of new space that came on line in the East Village/Ballpark District alone.

Currently, 397,212 square feet of Downtown retail space is unoccupied, for a 7.9 percent vacancy rate. This is up from the same time in 2006, when vacancy was 6.6 percent. Net absorption in 2006 totaled 39,428 square feet, the Burnham report shows.

Gattasso says Downtown continues to attract quality retail tenants, especially restaurants who are eager to capitalize on the thousands of new residents and workers in the central district areas. These include Bice Restaurant, which will be opening in Gaslamp Square at the corner of Fourth and Island in the second quarter of 2008. "Bice is returning to Downtown 10 years after it opened in the ill-fated Paladian project in the early ’90s," Shrader says. "The market has grown tremendously and Bice is very excited to be part of the Downtown market, which has an outstanding long-term outlook."

Additionally, Donovan’s Steakhouse -- which has been looking for a Downtown location for several years -- will be opening in the former Trophy’s location at Sixth Avenue and K Street.

The Burnham study shows that East Village/Ballpark District accounted for most of the year-to-date negative absorption with -76,515 square feet. Little Italy was next, with -15,782 square feet, followed by Cortez Hill, with -14,550 square feet. The highest positive absorption reported Downtown occurred in the Columbia district, with 9,287 square feet. It was followed by the Marina District with 8,550 square feet and the Gaslamp, with 5,919 square feet.

Cortez Hill reports 20.4 percent retail vacancy, followed by East Village at 18.1 percent, and the central core at 10 percent. The lowest retail vacancy rates are reported by Horton, with just 1.8 percent vacancy, the Marina District with 3.2 percent vacancy, and the Gaslamp with 3.4 percent vacancy.

"2008 will be a year to absorb space, particularly the new inventory in the Ballpark District," Shrader says. "We fully expect the vacancy factor to go down significantly over the next year as existing space leases up and nowhere near as much new space is delivered. Long term, this bodes well for retailers and investors alike."

Thanks for posting Trvlr!


Now when is Fuddrucker's supposed to open on the corner of Fifth and Broadway?

Additionally, Marriott has announced plans for an additional 1,650-room hotel just east of Petco Park.

Do you guys think that will actually get off the ground? I saw a rendering for it inside of a window along Third Avenue and Ash I think. I'll try to get a picture of it the next time I go by there.

It looks good though.

I really am praying that the huge Marriott gets off the ground. It will bring some much needed height to that part of downtown and won't make the Hilton across Harbor look so lonely. I think that Hilton will look crappy just sitting out there by itself all WIDE and bulky like an a short stout elephant :jester:

So I think it will also bring lots of much needed activity to that corner of the Ballpark District/East Village.

I say please move ahead with this quickly :cheers:

I browsed through it and clicked on every "new" project, nothing i haven't seen before.

ditto

Wha a tease!

the jd wong hotel on ash? am i behind? well, just kidding then.

I haven't heard of JD Wong.

Anybody know what site is being cleared on the block to the direct east of The Mark?

Strata

http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyI...rata_Final.jpg

Btw, I noticed that the Marriott Renaissance Hotel that so many here have been clamoring about wishing to start... begand digging recently. I suspect they began within the past 2 weeks.

http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/ACF8C.jpg

Oh that's where Strata is supposed to be? I thought it was a few streets south. Thank you. :)

Intracorp sold it's interest in the project to Hanover Co. From what I understand, the project is going to be very similar in design, however, Hanover is changing the floorplates into mostly 2 and 3 bedrooms. Very agressive rents: $3-$4 per SF. A 1,000 SF 2 bedroom for $3,000 - $4,000 per MONTH. Great news if you own a unit and want to rent it out down the road.

Just got a CCDC mailer mentioning a hearing for changes to Cosmo Square. Same height, same architecture, though most of the tower will now be a hotel, with some Condos...anyone know the timeline?

Since the owners just avoided losing the property to foreclosure and there is very little money available for hotels and even less for highrise condos, I would expect it to happen sometime in 2012.

as long as we get it eventually

2012 seems a bit long.

The Marriott that has begun digging is not the one that fronts 5th where the Arab cigar guy used to be. It is across the street from that one.

Why in the hell are there going to be 2 Marriott's right across the street from eachother.

The lot across from Gaslamp Square is still a parking lot I was just there, 2 hours ago. What the hell???

There's some mis-communication. The name of the project certainly is not helping things; both have Marriot in their titles. The project descriptions also do not help. One is described as being on the north side of the block... while the other says it's on the north side of a street. Who writes those descriptions? There should be a standard way to describe location... oriented to either the street or the block. Also, both have the same archectural team! What?

This is the real image I should have provided:

http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyI...sidenceINn.jpg

And description: The other one across the street... has not started. It's pic and description are:

http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/ACF8C.jpg

HHGaslamp, LLC is planning a 12-story, 369-room full-service hotel with a 6,400 square-foot ballroom, 7,500 square foot spa facility, 4,900 square feet of meeting space, 5,800 square feet of pre-function space, 7,000 square feet of retail space and underground parking to accommodate approximately 255 vehicles, for the north side of J Street between Fifth and Sixth avenues. Construction is expected to begin in summer 2008 with a summer 2010 completion targeted.

One is an Extended-Stay and one is a Courtyard, I think.

The project that has NOT started yet (on the site of the cigar shop) is going to be a Marriott Renaissance Hotel.

The project currently under construction is going to be another Marriott brand.

Does anyone know if they have finally gotten the okay on the federal courthouse?The parking lot next to the jail is fenced off and there was some activity on the site this morning.

nice one!!
 

http://nolensd.com/back01.jpg

The Nolan looks like a nice use of space - - 13 floor office structure going into the narrow space of land between ballpark self-storage and a hotel building :)

This is from their website nlansd.com

existing Marriotts:

Marriott Marina
Marriott Courtyard (on 6th)
Marriott Gaslamp

planned or u/c:

Marriott Extended Stay
Marriott Renaissance
Marriott BallPark Village
JD Marriott Lane Field
Marriott/Nickelodeon Resort

that's 8 total Marriotts in the area!

I'm wondering if Marriott saturating the market will hurt SD's chances in getting an InterContinental, Mandarin Oriental, Rits Carlton or Four Seasons in downtown SD.

Regarding Lane Field - - do you mean "JW" Marriott? If so, this is very exciting indeed! I have stayed at JW Marriott's across Asia and they are not like other Marriotts - - much higher-end, with a resort-type feel, I really like the existing ones

Where did you hear the proposed hotel brand for Lane Field??????

As far as all these Mariott's hurting the chances of a Ritz, Four Seasons, Mandarin-Oriental and the like, really the only Marriott close to that level are the JW Marriotts, the others can't come close. Having a JW at Lane Field could potentially crowd the marked for one of the super-luxury chains, but they would have to market themselves differently. Even though I love JW Marriotts and they are very luxurious, they are still not quite to the ultra-luxe level of a Ritz or a Mandarin Oriental.

When you say "very little money available for hotels" are you talking profit-potential? Everything I have been able to research points to a high profit potential for hotels downtown right now. Of course, developers will likely pounce on the opportunity and saturate the market with hotels to the point where there are too many, but by that time hopefully the residential condo lull will be on the up-swing :) I gues that is how the market works

I do think that 2008 will be a good year for hotel development starting and a "fill-in" year for condos, where the market quiets and vacant condos begin to fill

I also believe that more places to rent - be they affordable housing, mid-level, or high-end rentals are very profitable right now. Strata seems to be trying an interesting tactic by building a large luxury RENTAL tower, I actually think they are tapping into something that is needed. I have a friend from work who just transferred here and I went looking for rentals with them and the market is VERY tight right now. Many more people looking to rent as opposed to buying at the moment.

Alot of companies have colleagues who come to town for secondments, staying 6 months or a year or a couple of years. They are not looking to buy since they know they will not be here permanently. Currently, there are places to appease this need in the UTC and Sorrento area, but not alot downtown. Alot of these business people on secondment are younger, single people moving from large East Coast metros like Boston, NY, etc, and they really would prefer living DT as opposed to UTC even if that means having to commute. I know people in this situation and they say they would lease a car and commute because they are so miserable living in UTC where there's nothing to do. They also (since the company pays the rent) would be looking to rent higher-end. I think Strata is on to something

I really think in the long-run the housing slump will HELP downtown, because it is forcing us to diversify. DT really needs a combination of rentals, condos, hotels, businesses (office), businesses (retail) and affordable and mid-level housing to go along with the high-end. Unfortunately, the one area that will STILL be lacking, as is always the case here in SD, is INFRASTRUCTURE and CIVIC space. That will be the real determination of how far DT SD will go, not the housing market. So far, I would give our city a "D" when it comes to infrastructure and civic development downtown :(

Speaking of high-end hotels, does the San Diegan have a carrier yet?

I drove by the site yesterday. The hotel under construction is a Marriott Residence Inn.

Money to develop new hotels in San Diego (and around the country) is tight right now.

If all of the proposed hotels get built in the next 5 years, it is conceivable that the area will have too many hotel rooms.

Room rates don't justify the cost of new construction.

I drove by the site yesterday. The hotel under construction is a Marriott Residence Inn.