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Will O' Wisp Jun 6, 2020 9:13 PM


Originally Posted by JerellO (Post 8944114)
I’ve read that it was due to city officials in San Francisco fearing San Diego’s harbor rivaling their own and didn’t want SD to compete with SF. So being the premier city at the time, they decided on the small cow town Los Angeles with no competing harbor back then to be the terminus of the railroad. As Los Angeles boomed throughout the years especially with Hollywood attracting stars, the city extended city limits all the way to San Pedro in order to have its own harbor and port. By around the 1920s, Los Angeles had completely taken over San Francisco and the entire west coast as the premier city.

I've read that as well, although there's far more historical accounts of San Diego city officials claiming impropriety than evidence of SF actually doing anything. I personally tend towards believing it a 19th century conspiracy theory. Certainly one can argue that in sunny Southern California, the economic advantages of a natural harbor well protected from storms are lesser than one that saves several days of overland transport by virtue of being closer to the mountain passes most cargo must eventually travel through.


Originally Posted by Drcastro (Post 8944228)
Isn’t “everything beyond” what became North Island and Coronado? Not that a lot of dredging didn’t happen, I’m sure :)

I must have misspoken, haha. In that picture, the land you see on the other side of the harbor is indeed Coronado, North Island, and the Silver Strand. But the base of the pier is right about here. Everything you see closer to the harbor than that, the convention center, all the hotels, the marina park, all of that land was dredged out of the bay. If you zoom out, the original shoreline of downtown San Diego followed Harbor Dr until it intersects with PCH, then follows PCH until it splits into Barnett Ave north of the MCRD.

And yes, that area includes the entirety of the MCRD and the airport. Here's comparison between a 1927 picture and today that illustrates just how much the shoreline was altered. (credit to u/xenonsupra for the image)

Nv_2897 Jun 10, 2020 4:37 AM

Stockdale has begun demolition/exterior work on Horton Plaza. I remember coming to this mall as a kid I will miss it but hopefully can breathe some new life in downtown
Photo Credit to streetphotosbyjj and ahmedsvoice on Instagram

HurricaneHugo Jun 10, 2020 9:38 AM

Man I wanted to take one last stroll thru it but then Coronavirus happened...

Streamliner Jun 10, 2020 2:36 PM

Thanks for the Horton pics. I have such mixed feelings over this project. Sad to see those iconic facades go away.

JerellO Jun 11, 2020 8:43 AM

So much childhood memories there. I have mixed feelings as well. I’m all for the redevelopment, but there’s were a lot of historic elements I wish got incorporated into the design instead of it just being glass and steel. Something that looks like it could be plopped in any tech city. The historic elements of Horton plaza made it uniquely San Diego.

Are they keeping the Lyceum theater and it’s entrance with the street lamps?? I hope so.

IconRPCV Jun 11, 2020 11:50 PM

A few design features are being incorporated.
If you look at the Stockdale Horton Plaza site you will see that they are saving and incorporating a few post modern original elements into the new design. This is not enough in my opinion, one day post modern architecture will be as regarded as Victorian and Spanish Revival, and we will lament that one of its icons is mostly gone in favor of bland tech boxes. I am happy they are at least keeping the interior stair facade, one of the center's iconic structures.

Imagine if they tore down Balboa Park or the Hotel Del to put up some bland of there moment architecture; imagine how less beautiful SD would be today. This is what the city will decry in 20 years when they realize what happened to Horton Plaza.

NYC2ATX Jun 12, 2020 3:27 AM

I have always liked much of what postmodernism brought to the cities of America and I am glad to see that I'm not the only one who understands and appreciates its merits. To me, especially in the case of postmodern skyscrapers, this design movement was the closest architects came in the postwar times to recreating the spires, crowns and exuberant facades of the best prewar skyscrapers. I am glad that they are preserving portions of the original structure of Horton Plaza, and I like many aspects of the new design, but I share your concern that by the time most architectural voices see the positives of this design type, that a lot of it may already be lost.

Will O' Wisp Jun 14, 2020 3:01 PM


Ballot measure to lift the 30-foot height limit near San Diego sports arena takes step forward

Plans to replace San Diego’s aging sports arena with a modern version and allow high-rise housing in the surrounding neighborhood took a key step forward Wednesday.

The City Council’s Rules Committee endorsed a November ballot measure that would lift the city’s coastal 30-foot height limit for a relatively small swath of land between Interstate 5, Point Loma, Mission Bay Park and San Diego International Airport.

Supporters say it makes sense to lift the 50-year-old height limit for those roughly 850 acres, because there are no views to protect and it’s an ideal spot for dense projects that would help solve San Diego’s housing crisis.

Dense projects make sense there, supporters say, because the area is centrally located near freeways, the airport, the city’s beach communities and the Old Town Transit Center.

The council approved a new development blueprint for the area in 2018 that would increase housing units from 2,000 to 11,000 and increase the population from 4,500 to 27,000.

But developers and community leaders say the height limit makes those plans an unachievable dream, because projects don’t make financial sense unless they can be much higher than 30 feet.

Critics of the proposed ballot measure, which would need only a simple majority for approval, say it could be the first step toward San Diego lifting the height limit in the rest of the coastal zone — La Jolla, Pacific Beach, Ocean Beach, Mission Beach and Point Loma.

Supporters of the ballot measure contend that the area around the 54-year-old arena, called the Midway District, should never have been included in the coastal zone governed by the height limit.

They say the area was arbitrarily included in the 1972 ballot measure that set the height limit, because the area is west of Interstate 5, a border that makes sense when defining the coastal zone elsewhere.

But they say the rest of the coastal zone is quite different from the Midway District, which features almost no single-family homes and is made up mostly of fast food chains, auto businesses and strip clubs.

Lifting the height limit could transform the area, because the fees generated by new development would pay for new freeway on-ramps that would ease congestion and new amenities like parks, a fire station and a bay-to-bay trail.

It also would allow more ambitious proposals to redevelop the 48-acre sports arena site and 40 adjacent acres that the city also owns. Proposals for the site, which the city began soliciting this spring, were due by Monday.

“This is our opportunity to redevelop the city’s properties and the entire community, and to change it from a blighted commercial-industrial zone into a vital community that embodies the city’s and the community’s vision,” Cathy Kenton, chair of the Midway-Pacific Highway Planning Group, told the Rules Committee Wednesday.

Tom Mullaney, a local resident who frequently opposes dense projects, said there is no need to change the coastal height limit. He said the 1972 ballot measure was a grassroots effort focused on community character and coastal access.

“The six communities in the coastal height limit zone are all important,” he said. “They are part of the coastal access for every San Diegan who wants to come west of I-5.”

The Rules Committee vote to endorse the measure was 3-2, with Councilwomen Georgette Gómez and Barbara Bry opposed.

Gómez said she expects to support the ballot measure later but wants city staff to clear up confusion about whether developers applying to redevelop the sports arena site can submit proposals now that are higher than 30 feet.

Bry said she voted no because she’d prefer to see the area around the arena developed more collaboratively with the federal government, which controls the nearby 388-acre Marine Corps Recruit Depot and 80-acre NAVWAR site.

When those sites are included, the lifting of the height limit would affect 1,324 acres. But development of those properties is controlled by the federal government, not the city.

Councilman Chris Ward said he strongly supports the proposal.

“It’s a targeted, limited removal of the height limit in a specific region that doesn’t impact view corridors,” he said.

Ward was joined in support by Councilman Mark Kersey and Councilwoman Monica Montgomery.

The proposal must be placed on the ballot before Aug. 7 by the full council. Councilmembers Chris Cate and Dr. Jennifer Campbell are sponsors of the measure, so they are expected to support it when the full council votes.
Are you guys ready for a second downtown?

SDfan Jun 14, 2020 11:43 PM


Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp (Post 8951302)
Are you guys ready for a second downtown?

Haha I wish. Based on the recent density updates, they'll probably crest at 6 story, wood stick frame construction in midway.

Will O' Wisp Jun 15, 2020 12:36 AM


Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 8951642)
Haha I wish. Based on the recent density updates, they'll probably crest at 6 story, wood stick frame construction in midway.

I wouldn't be so sure...

The City Council is proposing 27,000 people on ~850 acres. Currently, downtown fits roughly 50,000 people on ~2500 acres. Under this plan, "new downtown" would have a population density 1.55x greater than downtown does today.

That doesn't straight up mean high rises, but at that level of density they certainly start becoming a cost feasible option. Airport related height limits are over 300' north of Midway Dr.

HurricaneHugo Jun 15, 2020 4:24 AM

It's going to fail.

Too many NIMBYs in this city

Northparkwizard Jun 17, 2020 2:23 AM

Here's a PDF of the community plan. Hopefully we'll see all four proposals put forward for the Sports Arena site and surrounding acreage.

UT article about it published today.

Will O' Wisp Jun 17, 2020 6:14 AM


Originally Posted by Northparkwizard (Post 8953843)
Here's a PDF of the community plan. Hopefully we'll see all four proposals put forward for the Sports Arena site and surrounding acreage.

UT article about it published today.

Word on the street is that the RFP might be recirculated because the current one still specifies the 30' height limit....

HurricaneHugo Jun 19, 2020 3:03 AM

SD City Council finalizes the sale of the Qualcomm site to SDSU

mello Jun 19, 2020 8:30 PM

Construction Updates from someone in Industry
I was getting gas at EC Blvd and Texas St yesterday saw a contractor taking photos of the UC project across street and started talking to him.

Bad news first: The mega project at Park Blvd and EC at beginning of University Heights strip that has been cleared but no equipment on it for 3 months is.... STALLED! 370 units he said financing either fell through or they never got final approval and just cleared the site. Let's hope some Banksters decide to kick in funds.

Jonathan Segal Project: He said he wants to go up to 34 floors at Park and Polk... I said what about community opposition he said well technically there isn't a height limit so he is going for it!

He also noted his construction company has lost 3 projects due to financing falling through. This economic collapse is hitting guys. :uhh:

HurricaneHugo Jun 20, 2020 3:12 AM

I like tall buildings but yeah, 34 floors is too much for the area

HurricaneHugo Jun 22, 2020 7:31 AM

Bosa Tower topped off and basically completed

Not sure how tall the tower on the left will be.

Streamliner Jun 22, 2020 3:09 PM


Originally Posted by mello (Post 8956921)

Jonathan Segal Project: He said he wants to go up to 34 floors at Park and Polk... I said what about community opposition he said well technically there isn't a height limit so he is going for it!

I'm confused. Didn't Jonathan Segal already build something at Park and Polk? Is there another project at that intersection?

mello Jun 22, 2020 7:43 PM


Originally Posted by Streamliner (Post 8958869)
I'm confused. Didn't Jonathan Segal already build something at Park and Polk? Is there another project at that intersection?

Sorry not Polk but somewhere right around there on the Park Blvd strip maybe just south Polk.

applejacks Jun 23, 2020 12:43 AM

Bosa seems like a nice infill tower. Thanks for the shot.

Moving to SD after my office reopens. I was thinking of buying a unit in the smart corner but not so sure now.

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