Good stuff here, all. Can't believe downtown has 15 cranes in the air right now. I can't recall there ever being that many at one time before.

While looking at the architect's website for the currently under construction Elevate Hotel, I came across the rendering below of Union and B for Urban Housing Partners (Smart Corner, Sapphire, India and Beech, among others). Anyone have more info on this? I like the design elements of the building.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...85362bd2_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...abaef394_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d49bab0e_c.jpg

https://www.dbrds.com/commercial/unionandb

Just wish the housing portion of the Midway Rising plan wasn't so bland. Pretty unremarkable, actually. The arena and commercial area looks pretty good.

I haven't seen those renders before, but really like them! The odd part about this project is it occupies 1/4 of the block SANDAG is trying to acquire to build out a downtown bus layover facility. The plan is to build a permanent facility for the busses to park and drivers to take breaks, removing the busses and porta-potties from A street.

SANDAG also mentioned building their new headquarters above the bus layover facility, potentially leasing extra office space to commercial tenants. I'm not sure what the status of the project is beyond what's listed here. https://www.sandag.org/index.asp?cla...rojects.detail

I haven't been following the projects very closely so I went and added floor counts for others like me to get a general idea of the size of these developments. For those following development more closely, which approved projects can we likely expect to break ground within the next year?

1 Crane - Simone, Alexan Little Italy, Trammell Crow Residential, Union & Ash, https://www.crowholdings.com/alexan-little-italy 36 floors
0 Cranes - One Broadway Hotel, Manchester Pacific Gateway, Manchester Financial, Broadway & Pacific Hwy, https://www.manchesterpacificgateway.com/ 34 floors
1 Crane - RaDD Block 2A, IQHQ, https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/ 4 floors
2 Cranes - RaDD Block 2B, IQHQ, https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/ 16 floors
1 Crane - RaDD Block 3A, IQHQ, https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/ 6 floors
1 Crane - RaDD Block 4A, IQHQ, https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/ 4 floors
1 Crane - RaDD Block 4B, IQHQ, Harbor Drive & Pacific Hwy, https://iqhqreit.com/project/radd/ 8 floors
1 Crane - 8th & B 9th Ave. & B St., Bosa, 8th & B, https://thinkbosa.com/project/ninth-avenue-b-street/ 40 floors
1 Crane - 800 Broadway, CA Ventures, 8th & Broadway 40 floors
1 Crane - West, Courthouse Commons, Holland Partners, Union & Broadway 37 floors
1 Crane - Radian, Cisterra, 9th & G, https://www.cisterra.com/radian 22 floors
1 Crane - The Lindley, Milano, Toll Brothers, Columbia & Ash, https://www.livethelindley.com/ 37 floors
1 Crane - Broadway Towers (Tower 2), Pinnacle International, 11th & Broadway, https://broadwaytowers.com/ 32 floors
1 Crane - Jefferson Makers Quarter, JPI Development, 15th & Broadway 9 floors
1 Crane - Elevate Hotel, K Elevate 10th Street Property, LLC, 10th & Island 8 floors

Ah, this one I have a little bit of second-hand knowledge of. SANDAG is being deliberately obscure in its wording on this web page.

As they say, two of the landowners have agreed to be bought out by SANDAG. But the third is some sort of group of lawyers, and they do not want to sell. Apparently they want to build an HQ of their own? Something of that nature, in any case they want an outrageous sum of money to sell.

Now in normal circumstances all one would need to do is break out the eminent domain proceedings, and indeed SANDAG is already moving in that direction. The issue here is that, as has been so well established in this thread before, SANDAG is flat broke. The only way they could pay for their fancy new office tower (with a bus depot in the basement) is a public-private partnership.

All well and good, but the CA state constitution prohibits the use of eminent domain if the property will then be conveyed to a private entity. Does a public-private partnership fall afoul of that? No way of knowing, it's a grey area in the law. But you can bet your britches that this gaggle of lawyers is going to drag SANDAG into court to find out.

So at the moment SANDAG and these lawyers are in a bit of a cold war, neither really wanting to test this out in trial, so they try and negotiate. Or at least that's where they were last I heard, this may be the legal group deciding to push ahead regardless of what SANDAG wants.

Interesting crane choice they decided to go with for The Lindley.
https://i.imgur.com/5bkqsBc.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FjqIbUA.jpg

:previous:
16000 seats, Midway District. Almost seems the Mayor and others in power are trying to bury any chance of San Diego getting big league basketball and hockey teams. This arena will be underutilized, mostly vacant and a waste of taxpayer money. The Midway should be primarily high density housing.

An 18000-19000 seat Arena should be built downtown, and give San Diego a high probability of getting the teams. Build it, and they will come. Midway, 16000 seats, no hope. The downtown interests and financiers, and maybe the Padres and Convention Center authorities need to get involved and get the arena downtown where it belongs before it is too late! Talk to the basketball and hockey leagues, to see if they will say it is likely such an arena would give our city the likelihood of getting teams. I think it would, given the massive success of Petco Park.

San Diego is a beautiful city and has the money and population in the metro to support big league basketball and hockey. It is so much bigger and more urban and beautiful than when the Clippers were here. It is a big, cosmopolitan, interesting, increasingly important and influential city, and the leagues will want to be here.

Any attempt to build a major-league quality arena capable of attracting an NBA or NHL team needs to be the centerpoint of any construction project, and surrounded by entertainment and retail. In these Midway projects it seems the arena is farther down the list and not the central focus of the overall project. You need an arena with an outdoor district, like a Petco Park at the Park, for an additional 10,000 fans to congregate for big events (like Milwaukee or Toronto has) outside the arena. You need a district like LA Live or a better version of Downtown Disney, with restaurants, sports bars, hotels, retail. A mini Gaslamp. There's probably no room downtown to do all of that, and in this day and age you won't get away with building just an entertainment district without a bunch of housing. So this would need to go somewhere where there's already housing.

Also, I think they could easily get away with a 17,500 seat arena and be right in the middle of the other existing professional league arenas. Make it creative and add standing-room only areas to maybe add an additional 1,000 bodies inside. The almost-new Chase Center in SF only has an 18,000 capacity. Fiserv in Milwaukee and Golden 1 in Sac are both at 17,500. The new Intuit Dome in LA for the Clippers is only expected to have a capacity of 18,000. It's less about size and more about amenities these days, but 16,000 would be the smallest in the NBA, New Orleans is at 16,867. The smallest in the NHL is 15,321 but then the next smallest is 16,514. 17,500 I think is the sweet spot.

The region still needs to have a viable major league team interested in San Diego before they build an arena for them. However, if we did have an interested team and people want the arena downtown, a developer could partner on the Central Mobility Hub concept. An arena on-top of a train station isn't unheard of, eg. Boston Garden, but there are also some terrible implementations of it, eg. MSG & NY Penn Station.

So interesting. The additional renders on the website make it look like a 600ft tower. Tired of these design firms fu*king with us! From what it sounds like though, this is a lame duck. Lol

Oh man thanks for the insight. What a waste of SANDAG's time trying to do some regulatory gymnastics with that one when the counterpart is as you said "a gaggle of lawyers." They would have better luck with the city in closing a street segment or two to get the real estate they need.

I also don't see how a new headquarters fits with the 5 big moves, but I digress. Plus they're leased offices are entirely adequate. They need to keep their eye on the ball and not fall into a "boondoggle" rebuttal when trying to sell the taxpayers on new transnet or whatever they will call it (already can't get it on the ballot) as it will distract from their main objectives. Seems like a replacement City Hall would be a bigger priority since it crumbles as you look at it.

:previous:
The trend in arena capacity is up. 17,500 is at the lower end, 18000 seems about in the middle now. 18500-20000 is probably where things are going in 5 years, which is probably about how long it would get it to completion. Capacity matters to te NBA and NHL--just go to at least 18000 to be in the middle, or 18,500. We are not far apart. 18500 is my sweet spot, which is less than half Petco capacity. Downtown can handle that since they already handle Petco. Rare if ever would be the times when both Petco and the arena would have games on the same times and days. Scheduling would see to that, plus the basketball/hockey seasons are mostly in the time when baseball is off.

As far as location goes, I think downtown is best, near Petco or in the East Village. The numerous entertainment, eating, parking and other needs and amenties are already in place. Plus the arena basketball and hockey games would mostly be in the time when baseball is off season, so the Gaslamp and East Village restaurants and bars would be happy with the year around traffic. Downtown would rock year around.

Midway is off the beaten track as far as capacity and amenities and transportation infrastructure. The infrastructure is downtown, not in Midway, which should focus on high density residential which is badly needed, not some useless second rate half assed arena below league standards. I can just picture it sitting vacant most of the time, an instant useless white elephant. Mission Valley would also not be as good a location as downtown. Build it downtown where the trolley lines converge and we already have a large food and amenities infrastructure in place. I hope the Mayor and other city leaders come around to this position.

San Diego is a big city now, and it needs its big league basketball and hockey as well as baseball (we'll leave pro football for later debates). A league standard arena downtown is the correct path.

Actually if you average the arenas built in 2010 and later compared to those built before 2010, the average capacity is lower, 18,342 vs 18,941. So arenas aren't getting bigger. The money is in luxury suites, so arenas are replacing more regular seats with suites. I'd say there's still a minimum that the NBA would consider, so a 16,000 seat arena better be decked out with all of the latest and greatest amenities to attract a team. Teams want to generate revenue, and suites do that much more than individual seats.

My feelings echo yours CaliNative... build the arena at Midway if you want, but don't use it as your hook for an NBA or NHL team. For that you need prime real estate, and downtown is it. There's some prime oceanfront spots; a surface parking lot just south of the airport right on Harbor Dr, you'd have to bisect Pacific Hwy probably, which you could run underground maybe. Or buy the Wyndham Bayside hotel property and put it there. Walking distance to Santa Fe Depot and Little Italy.

:previous:
I am somewhat puzzled why you keep pushing for a smallish arena at or under 17,000, near the low end of current arenas. It will hurt the effort to get teams in my opinion. Very happy you agree on downtown location. Little Italy/North Embacadero area might work, although I still prefer the Petco/East Village area. On the same page with downtown. Can we meet at 18,000 (I prefer 18,500), about the sizes of those being built recently? Note I didn't say 19000-20000,. Cheers.

Gonna throw a bomb in the arena conversation by saying that I don't think SD needs or will ever be able to attract another professional sports team. Our media market is too small and niche to justify the expense for a team to be created for, or moved to, SD. That's one of the primary reasons we lost the Chargers, we could not turn them a high enough profit with our limited market and fan base.

We also lost the Chargers because a majority of San Diegans time and time again refused to subsidize billionaire team owners and leagues, making the financing for professional sports venues much more difficult. Yes, Midway is an opportunity for a privately funded arena, but it's clear based on the top proposals that no one expects the NHL or NBA to look our way. If that was the case there would be an arena proposal that fits the bill, but there isn't, because the market and the financials don't make sense.

I also don't buy that TJ or Mexico market could save the day because I don't think professional leagues want SD repping their brands. Why elevate the Chargers when you have the Cowboys and Patriots? Why the Padres when you have the Yankees and Dodgers? In fact, I think the Padres "City Connect" campaign has been interesting in that they lean into marketing to Baja and TJ ("two cities, two cultures, one home team") but they barely if at all mention Baja, TJ or Mexico, which indicates that MLB is being very selective in how the Padres market themselves.

Anyways, just my two cents :)

We're a major US even without an NFL team. It shouldn't be that a hard to build a Pro level Arena. Besides the minor sports teams that would play there Arenas bring in lots event through the winter months. The city can't even solve the convention center. Put the Arena on the bus yard downtown. What? Would it wall off the 5 and skid row? Good.

:previous:
I heard the same give up attitude before the Petco construction got the go ahead. It took a lot of people pushing for it, including me, and there were doubters everywhere. For a long while it looked like Petco might not be built. What a success it has been! It has transformed the east side of downtown. What kind of "fan" cuts down his own city? The San Diego metro market is bigger than many cities that have teams. Join the effort. The Petco success can be replicated in getting an arena and teams, but it takes effort.

I am calling for the Padres ownership, the convention center board and the downtown developers to get behind a big league arena downtown. Perhaps the Padres ownership could be part of the ownership group. There are plenty of very wealthy people and corporations in the San Diego area who could join the ownership, and maybe the people could be invited to invest in arena and team shares. A few pro teams are owned in part by the citizens. A high level of public support for a team could convince the leagues, as well as wealthy investors stepping forward. The NBA responds to public interest.

The population of the city and metro area is double that of when the Clippers were here. Downtown is booming, and a new arena would carry the boom forward, and intensify it to new areas.

As far as hockey goes, the pretty good Gulls who have good fan support could be upgraded to big league by an expansion draft, much like the minor league L.A. Angels became major league in 1961 with a few added players from the other teams.

The Chargers didn't leave because the market was too small, we're the 8th largest city in the US and at the time there were no teams in LA at all. They left because they are one of the poorest ownership groups if not the poorest, they don't have any money to build their own stadium so they asked the city to, and when the city said no, they got an offer to rent a room from Stan Kroenke, the richest owner, who privately financed a $5 billion stadium complex. Chargers pay $1 in rent each year for SoFi stadium. They barely got that deal because the Raiders are still the most popular team in LA. They also has a terrible stadium that generated little revenue.

The market can easily support more than 1 professional team, it did so for 50 years. Here in Salt Lake City, the new owner of the Jazz, founder of Qualtrics, is putting together an investment group to maybe go after a third professional team here. They won't get it, no way SLC is big enough for MLB or NFL when there are much bigger cities also waiting for a team. But that's what SD needs, a group of deep-pocketed investors to form a group and start moving. There was the talk of Joseph Tsai building an arena, but it's not a big enough focus. Someone can make it happen, but that someone needs to start buying the land in downtown first.

Y'all need to do some basic research. Yes, San Diego is the 8th largest city in the country by population, but its media market is...28th. That's >1% of the national market, compared to LA, which is 2nd at nearly 5%.

Don't take my word for it, see from the experts at Neilsen:

https://www.lyonspr.com/latest-nielsen-dma-rankings/

Our metro, by the way, is only 17th in the US with 3.3 million people. If we are being generous and throw in Imperial County we bump up to 3.5 million. That still keeps SD at 17th below Detroit, Minneapolis, and even the Inland Empire.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...eas-in-the-us/

https://worldpopulationreview.com/us...nty-population

I wish folks would spend more time and energy focused on what San Diegans really need. More housing. Better transit and public infrastructure. Lower cost of living. Vanity projects like arenas and stadiums should not, and are not, a priority for San Diegans. Especially with a cash strapped city like SD. Sorry!

However, I will say that if a billionaire or two wants to throw their cash around, fine. But it shouldn't be on our backs. We have too many things we need to address before investing in entertainment that's currently free on TV or a hour+ away in OC and LA.

It looks like East Village Green construction is FINALLY beginning!

The entire block between 13th St., 14th St., F St. and G St. has been fenced off with new construction fencing, as well as the old bakery and historic homes across 14th St. behind Smart and Final. I think demo of the existing 1 story buildings scattered across the two lots will commence, and maybe removal of the historic homes for relocation/rehab.

I almost thought this project would never come. I hope the construction of this park will finally kickstart all of the seemingly dead proposals in this part of East Village, south of City College.

There are the two blocks demolished for the Kilroy Development.
https://kilroyrealty.com/properties/...-east-village/

The block behind Smart Corner on Park Blvd. and Broadway
https://upzone-socal.com/park-broadw...vic-san-diego/

The Father Joe's highrise at 13th and Broadway
https://timesofsandiego.com/business...-for-homeless/

The Street Lights project between F St., G St., 15th St. and 16th St. but I think this project is officially dead.

There was also a highrise residential proposal across the street from F11, at Park Blvd. between E St. and F St. -- was this another Bosa proposal?

Does anyone have any updates for these projects?