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PDX City-State Mar 11, 2009 3:45 PM

Saw this on Burnside Blog. My feelings are the same as the author's.

http://www.portlandspaces.net/blog/t...-is-good-taste

Eagle rock Mar 11, 2009 5:25 PM

I think you guys are getting to caught up in the “entertainment district” aspect of this proposal. If the city makes cordish break up the super blocks in that area and put in some high density mixed use buildings it will be a vast improvement over the dead zone that is there now.

The Rose Quarter is on one of the most transit accessible sites in the City with the 4 MAX lines and a future street car line. If we can reintegrate this area into the city with a regular grid and high densities it could be a fantastic area.

Also one of the great things about urban space is its adaptability. If the new district is well planned, which hopefully the city will force it to be, it will be able to accommodate future uses. So even though when it opens it might be filled with tacky places in the later it could accommodate a Vegan Kids Hemp Clothing Store/Cafeteria or whatever more Portland thing you guys want.

tworivers Mar 11, 2009 6:25 PM

Quote:

What should we do to the Rose Quarter? Perhaps reintroduce the old or new street grid, try to cap I-5, build a ballpark at the PPS site, leave MC alone for future reuse, and/or publicly build a new HSR station.
Right on.

JordanL Mar 11, 2009 7:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJD (Post 4134103)
^

Don't.

We already have several funky, Portland style entertainment districts including Old Town. Making one out of thin air will age horribly, be 'anywhere-USA', and will not build on an existing environment. Nothing much has happened to the Rose Quarter since we razed the historic neighborhood there. Any mass 'entertainment district' will just be a focus on suburban/ tourist economies anyway further removing local money from local businesses.

What should we do to the Rose Quarter? Perhaps reintroduce the old or new street grid, try to cap I-5, build a ballpark at the PPS site, leave MC alone for future reuse, and/or publicly build a new HSR station. All I know is Vulcan does not have the same Portland sensibilities as Hoyt Street, Williams & Dame, Gerdling Edlin, Beam, Randy Rapaport, etc...

Well, since this isn't a communist state, the private owners of the area have decided the goal.

Also, I don't think BESC is large enough to build any kind of ballpark, even if you include the overflow lots nearby.

RoseCtyRoks Mar 11, 2009 7:42 PM

The soccer debate continues in the city council today....hopefully we'll know one way or another by the end of the day:


http://www.kgw.com/news-local/storie....10fce4a6.html

JordanL Mar 11, 2009 8:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoseCtyRoks (Post 4134663)
The soccer debate continues in the city council today....hopefully we'll know one way or another by the end of the day:


http://www.kgw.com/news-local/storie....10fce4a6.html

Looks like the MC is going away... :/

I can't see the City Commisioners just throwing this deal away...

I hope they look forward and at least design a baseball stadium that CAN be upgraded to MLB status...

tworivers Mar 11, 2009 8:16 PM

Quote:

I hope they look forward and at least design a baseball stadium that CAN be upgraded to MLB status...
Yeah, I can't quite wrap my mind around the idea of bothering to build a 9000 seat baseball stadium from scratch.

JordanL Mar 11, 2009 8:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tworivers (Post 4134727)
Yeah, I can't quite wrap my mind around the idea of bothering to build a 9000 seat baseball stadium from scratch.

$89 million is about a fourth the cost of a nice MLB stadium from scratch anyway...

zilfondel Mar 12, 2009 12:18 AM

Okay, what the city council agreed upon today was actually not an agreement with Paulson, but an outline to terms that will guide a future business deal.

Hence the title:

Quote:

Major League Soccer/Triple-A Baseball Task Force
Report and Recommendations
March 2009
They sure use the word "if" a lot in the report as to the fate of MC. And to think, just a few years ago we could have had an amazing community center/sports center in the city for almost free. What a waste...

Okstate Mar 12, 2009 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJD (Post 4134103)
^

Don't.

We already have several funky, Portland style entertainment districts including Old Town. Making one out of thin air will age horribly, be 'anywhere-USA', and will not build on an existing environment. Nothing much has happened to the Rose Quarter since we razed the historic neighborhood there. Any mass 'entertainment district' will just be a focus on suburban/ tourist economies anyway further removing local money from local businesses.

-Old town is not funky it is disgusting presently (both perception AND reality) And the answer is NO, I have no ill will towards the homeless & they do not account for 1% of my current perception of the area. I know I can't be alone on that one who is at the same time a non-suburbanite. (Yes, there are great places IN Old town...Old Town Pizza, Ping, gardens, hopefully Uwijimaya etc..)

-Name a successfully designed downtown mixed-use high density Cordish entertainment district built from scratch that has aged horribly. To me it sounds like you wish that upon it.

-"build on an existing environment"- < There IS an existing environment there???

-Who says local business will not come into play? Didn't they specify in their proposal they would gear the district towards local interests? I don't understand why almost everyone jumps on board if an apple store, H&M, Juicy Couture, Bang & Olufsen want to come into the central city....but hell no we don't want an ESPN Zone b/c that somehow competes with Le Pigeon! They literally made that last comparison on the burnside blog.

-Finally, I doubt 5% of the tourists in this city visit our existing "entertainment district-Old Town" This new district will have literally no competition amongst tourists. Locals on the other hand, yea, but competition is a GOOD thing. Contrary to the Burnside Blog, people don't go to Le Pigeon one day then say, "you know what, ESPN Zone really has what Le Pigeon is lacking, let's go there instead."

EastPDX Mar 12, 2009 12:30 AM

This ROCKS!!!
 
Go to www.oregonstadiumcampaign.com and see and read the old forums where we concluded that MLS to PDX was the next step years ago.

We are closer!

We now need MLS to award to MP (owner) the team.

AAA to the Rose Quarter is our plan from 6 years ago. So COOL when your dreams come true! Thank you Sam, Randy, and Dan.

Making the ballfield able to be expandable to MLB (9K to 40Kish) has been done in other cities so the process isn't something new!

This makes the Rose Quarter much more appealing for hotels and entertainment options! I and others have said the SMART Tower should go there also.

Joe C. just said on FM 95.5 that we should forgot about MLB to PDX (ever) and I say that we should never say never. Sorry Joe C., wrong again. But it is your job to be on the edge (right or wrong).

Congrats to Merritt and to the TA!!!!!!

Hopefully congrats to PDX for getting a second major league team.

Like I said: THIS ROCKS!!! :notacrook: :cheers:

PDX is investing in the future instead of being afraid.

Ray Whitford (Big Boomer at www.OSC.com)

NJD Mar 12, 2009 1:07 AM

^ JordanL: yep, it is entirely up to Vulcan. They have done some decent 'Pearl' rip-off work in Lake Union (Seattle, with a streetcar even!), and I'm not expecting shoddy work or something entirely devoid of Portland styles. The city council, PDC and the planning department will also have the only 'public' say in what goes on if they want major zoning changes or public investment money.

^ Okstate: I like Old Town, E. Burnside and the Stark Triangle areas, and I don't think they are disgusting (however, I think the city's forced gentrification of those areas is disgusting, Jane Jacobs would have a field day reminding the city of the importance of older, decaying central neighborhoods). The majority of such Cordish entertainment districts are still on paper, and all of them use or appear to use materials fit for suburban malls which are mishmashes of different architectural styles and themes (if you follow historical patterns these do not age well). Yep, I said they wouldn't be able to build on an existing environment; because it's not there. A sustainable economy is based on smaller businesses and keeping money local (I can argue this to no end, I have a degree in it). I have lived in several entertainment towns and cities with entertainment districts that are geared toward tourists, like Cordish projects, and the locals end up hating them and never use them (but Beavertonites will love it I'm sure, 'no grime or street people to deal with? Hurray, I'll get out of my car and fear led life for that').

Regardless, I think Vulcan will do whatever they want, and the city government will love it. Remember, the PDC put out an outline for an 'entertainment district' at the Rose Quarter a couple years back on the taxpayers dime, executive summary: http://www.pdc.us/pdf/dev_serv/pubs/...ec_summary.pdf Hopefully, the district will look more like the PDC publication than the mega malls Cordish has planned elsewhere...

Okstate Mar 12, 2009 7:55 AM

I like E. Burnside & Stark Triangle & don't think they are disgusting...I hope some local establishments will set up shop there (Rose Quarter). The Rose Quarter obviously isn't going to grow "organically" anytime soon. Why call out Beavertonites for not liking grime or street people? You could just as easily call out Pearlites, SoWa, West Hills, Irvington, Ladd Circle, Laurelhurst & really just about anyone in between that feel the same way. I'd even go so far as to say the bums themselves don't particularly like the position they're in, thus not enjoying being around their own company. Is it really that bad not wanting to always see street people? I know i know, they are ignoring the cold realities of life...but there are so many different avenues of seeing cold realities other than street people. Do all "downtown gritty urban dwellers" grab their remotes & crank the volume to hear a feed the children ad on T.V. in order to get their "fix". Just b/c a person can easily deal with streetlife doesn't mean they deserve a blue ribbon in life for being "fearless". I also don't understand why you are directly linking the car lovers with this project. Isn't this site at the epicenter for Portland transit? Wouldn't it be more accurate to then say "Hurray, I'll have somewhere worth riding transit for whilst also knowing that I don't have to step over grimey vomit & be asked for spare change"

pdxtraveler Mar 12, 2009 2:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Okstate (Post 4135178)
-Old town is not funky it is disgusting presently (both perception AND reality) And the answer is NO, I have no ill will towards the homeless & they do not account for 1% of my current perception of the area. I know I can't be alone on that one who is at the same time a non-suburbanite. (Yes, there are great places IN Old town...Old Town Pizza, Ping, gardens, hopefully Uwijimaya etc..)

-Name a successfully designed downtown mixed-use high density Cordish entertainment district built from scratch that has aged horribly. To me it sounds like you wish that upon it.

-"build on an existing environment"- < There IS an existing environment there???

-Who says local business will not come into play? Didn't they specify in their proposal they would gear the district towards local interests? I don't understand why almost everyone jumps on board if an apple store, H&M, Juicy Couture, Bang & Olufsen want to come into the central city....but hell no we don't want an ESPN Zone b/c that somehow competes with Le Pigeon! They literally made that last comparison on the burnside blog.

-Finally, I doubt 5% of the tourists in this city visit our existing "entertainment district-Old Town" This new district will have literally no competition amongst tourists. Locals on the other hand, yea, but competition is a GOOD thing. Contrary to the Burnside Blog, people don't go to Le Pigeon one day then say, "you know what, ESPN Zone really has what Le Pigeon is lacking, let's go there instead."

I actually am in favor of the development in the Rose Quarter. I think it would be a great thing. BUT I totally take exception with Old Town being called "disgusting". It may be slightly gritty but full of great places and very lively at night. I actually have met many tourists in the establishments in Old Town so I would think that number is much higher than "5%". So while I do agree with you that the development in the Rose Quarter is good, I don't think we have to trash other areas that have their own merit.

NJD Mar 12, 2009 2:29 PM

meh, we'll just have to see what gets built when it does. This is not the first re-visioning of the Rose Quarter area.

...and Okstate, please understand that sarcasm and dry humor do not work as well on an online forum as it does in person. my apologies if I insinuated anything with my generalizations.

Okstate Mar 12, 2009 7:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxtraveler (Post 4135984)
I actually have met many tourists in the establishments in Old Town so I would think that number is much higher than "5%". So while I do agree with you that the development in the Rose Quarter is good, I don't think we have to trash other areas that have their own merit.

-I do understand Old Town has its niche market & think it is great for what it is. Just not my cup of tea. However, that being said there are a couple great places IN Old Town that I really like. I agree I shouldn't have trashed on it. Point taken.

-As for the tourists, I just can't imagine a large % outside of the 21-30 crowd flocking to Old Town. I think the entertainment district will be much more open to all ages. Of course this is just my perception.

Okstate Mar 12, 2009 8:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJD (Post 4136004)

...and Okstate, please understand that sarcasm and dry humor do not work as well on an online forum as it does in person. my apologies if I insinuated anything with my generalizations.

I actually am glad I got to open up without someone going hay-wire on me (which has been done in the past) It's nice to be so confident in yourself that you can take & leave what people say. I did mentally take away a couple things you said to me. Being able to discuss high heated material can actually be a lot of fun so as someone doesn't go crying home to momma. No apologies needed :tup:

pylon Mar 12, 2009 8:43 PM

Here's what happened when Cordish worked their formula in Rochester, NY; downtown, on a site along the Genesee River ("water is magic")...

Before...
http://www.ci.rochester.ny.us/mayor/...m?Release=1036

After...
http://www.articlearchives.com/trave...1599558-1.html

City Newspaper (their Wammy Week) explains...
http://www.rochestercitynewspaper.co...tching-a-buzz/

nobody Mar 13, 2009 8:04 AM

Referencing Rochester's downtown to basically anywhere in Portland is fairly pointless. As a former resident of Rochester I can assure you that even opening a free money factory downtown probably wouldn't get people there.

zilfondel Mar 13, 2009 9:53 AM

From Oregonlive:

This is excerpted from part of the article. Very interesting - for those of you who think that MC demolition is a done deal, well, its not. Read on...

Quote:

Blazers not on board

Another opponent of the plan was the Portland Trail Blazers. J.E. Isaac, the team's senior vice president for business affairs, said the proposal to build a new baseball park next to the Rose Garden threatens the future of the Blazers' business.

The Blazers are in talks with the city to build an entertainment district in the Rose Quarter that could include clubs, restaurants, bars and a music venue. The team hopes to make the area attractive even when there is not a basketball game.

Leonard and Adams said they were surprised by Isaac's statements. They said Blazers officials had shown them drawings that included the baseball park and the entertainment district. Isaac said those plans would require the city to tear down a parking garage or the Blazers to tear down their office building.

Okstate Mar 13, 2009 6:31 PM

I love how these multi million $ deals get planned for years by fairly smart groups of people then one day:
In my humorous imagination this is how it goes- a pimple faced 19 yr. old intern speaks out..."ummm i don't think it will all fit on there, sir" To which the officials say, "get outta here kid & get me some coffee." As the kid closes the door feeling ridiculous, the men look at each other & whisper, "damnit!"

zilfondel Mar 13, 2009 7:51 PM

This is why real estate firms should first hire an architect or planning firm to figure out those pesky details...

MarkDaMan Mar 13, 2009 10:21 PM

Quote:

said the proposal to build a new baseball park next to the Rose Garden threatens the future of the Blazers' business
This is really one of the more ridiculous things I've heard.

-The Blazers have not done anything with the property they have owned since the arena opened 12 years ago, even when the Pearl and SoWa took off from nothing during that same time period. Without presenting a development plan for their property, they now deem the city property necessary to their business model?

-The Blazers have complained about the burdens associated with the MC and their agreement with the city for the original funding for the Rose Quarter.

-The Beavs play on the exact opposite side of the calendar than the Blazers, bringing more bodies into the area for potential businesses year round. Businesses that would, in theory, be renting from buildings owned by the Blazers...or Vulcan, or whoever.

I've come around to love the Blazers again. I sure hope their administration doesn't come along acting all cocky and spouting nonsense, reminding me what a jack-assed organization they are, and a fool Paul Allen can be.

NewUrbanist Mar 16, 2009 6:31 PM

Has anyone tried to go to a bar after thirsty thursdays at PGE Park? First - they stop serving beer early (I think it was the 6th inning), so loads of people are still thirsty at the end of the game - especially if the games go into overtime.

My friends and I tried to grab beers at the Marathon during the summer, but there was so many people flooding the nearby bars that there was a bouncer, a line, a fee, and the place was packed inside for the rest of the night. We opted for Muu Muu's on 21st which wasn't quite as busy with game -goers.

This made me realize that attendees from the suburbs are often only willing to walk so far from the game to have a drink/ socialize afterwards. The Rose Garden doesn't have much nearby, so people tend to either stop on the way home elsewhere, or just drive/MAX home afterwards. Development could be timed to allow for the nearby construction of medium sized restaurants/ pubs nearby that can handle the heavy flows after events. If I wanted to continue living in this city, I would love to try and build small jewel box like bar with outdoor/ rooftop seating at that broadway triangle in front of left bank.

RoseCtyRoks Mar 18, 2009 8:54 AM

Here's an Oregonian article from Mark Larabee with an artist's rendering of a baseball park, and obviously no M.C., at the Rose Quarter, if this were to happen.

Maybe one of you wouldn't mind bringing up the picture onto this page. Thanks, in advance!

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index...aders_not.html

JordanL Mar 18, 2009 11:33 AM

http://blog.oregonlive.com/news_impa...%20Quarter.JPG

MarkDaMan Mar 19, 2009 12:48 AM

^Hmmm, so the opening of the stadium is looking at the I-5 and Lloyd instead of towards the Pearl, downtown, the Willamette River and/or Broadway bridge?

I know that grain silo blocks a lot of any view towards downtown, but I don't think it will be there forever.

twofiftyfive Mar 19, 2009 1:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkDaMan (Post 4147779)
^Hmmm, so the opening of the stadium is looking at the I-5 and Lloyd instead of towards the Pearl, downtown, the Willamette River and/or Broadway bridge?

I know that grain silo blocks a lot of any view towards downtown, but I don't think it will be there forever.

You can't have the batter facing southwest into the setting sun.

PacificNW Mar 19, 2009 5:26 AM

↑ Yup, open air baseball stadiums playing fields are specifically designed in such a way to minimize the impact of the sun.

Okstate Mar 19, 2009 6:55 AM

Outfielders don't wear black marks under their eyes for style?

zilfondel Mar 19, 2009 10:38 AM

http://blog.oregonlive.com/news_impa...se-Quarter.jpg

This one's a bit bigger. From the Oregonian.


Quote:

Drawings show an open-air but covered courtyard with a stage, surrounded by the businesses and outdoor seating. One idea is to use Memorial Coliseum's roof but take out the walls and remake what's below. Another drawing shows a baseball stadium with the entertainment district in the place of the Blazers' office building next to the Rose Garden.
^ I like these ideas. Much more sustainable, too.

Quote:

But he now says he was misunderstood. He supports Major League Soccer coming to town and even thinks a baseball stadium in the Rose Quarter could bring more people to the area. But it can't be built "at the expense of the live district," he said.

"We're very supportive of having it all," Isaac said. "But just replacing Memorial Coliseum with a baseball stadium will leave us as a facilities district."
and

Quote:

It's not certain where in the Rose Quarter the stadium would go. The city's agreement with Paulson calls for it to be built where Memorial Coliseum now stands. But Adams said that was a scriber's error and that an exact footprint has yet to be determined.

MarkDaMan Mar 25, 2009 2:04 AM


Baseball stadium, Live! district may join Rose Quarter

Plan to bring MLS to Portland may include replacement of Memorial Coliseum
Daily Journal of Commerce
POSTED: 04:00 AM PDT Tuesday, March 24, 2009
BY SAM BENNETT

As Portland Timbers owner Merritt Paulson pursues his goal to bring Major League Soccer to Portland in 2011, plans for the Rose Quarter are still a work in progress.

Paulson last week received approval from MLS to begin the franchise in Portland, on the condition that his company, Shortstop LLC, and the city forge a partnership to renovate the Timbers’ stadium, PGE Park.

The $124 million deal includes moving Paulson’s baseball team, the Portland Beavers, to a new stadium in the Rose Quarter.

“The baseball stadium is a huge space eater,” said J.E. Isaac, senior vice president for business affairs for the Portland Trail Blazers. “The size of the stadium means there are only a couple places to put it.”

The challenge may be finding room for the new stadium and a Live! district that the Blazers have proposed to co-develop in the Rose Quarter. The Live! district would be a destination entertainment district with retail and restaurants that would attract visitors to the Rose Quarter during Blazers and Beavers games, but also on days and nights when there are no games.

In one scenario, the entertainment district could replace the Blazers’ 65,000-square-foot office building. In that scenario, the Beavers’ stadium would replace Memorial Coliseum. In another scenario, the new entertainment area could use the shell of Memorial Coliseum, which would be reconfigured from a large sports/entertainment venue into the Live! multi-use venue, and the Beavers stadium would have to be in another area of the Rose Quarter.

The Live! district proposal is based on a development approach by the Baltimore-based Cordish Co. Cordish has developed and planned entertainment venues called Daytona Live! and Philly Live!, that include restaurants and casinos. The company was also behind Baltimore’s Power Plant Live! – the redevelopment of two vacated blocks into an entertainment district near the city’s Inner Harbor.

“It’s critical to have the Live! block immediately adjacent to the Rose Garden and as close to the Convention Center as it can be,” said Isaac.

City Commissioner Randy Leonard said the Cordish proposal “is a good starting point.”

However, he added that he wants to “better understand the Cordish model. It needs to be an approach that really reflects Portland. I’m not sure the Kansas City or Los Angeles model really translates to Portland.”

He said the Live! district should focus on attracting local businesses, such as the McMenamins pub and brewery chain.

“We need to take a look at the entire [Rose Quarter] site and make a decision about what works best,” Leonard added.

Blake Cordish, vice president of development for the Cordish Co., said his company would not use a cookie-cutter approach for the Rose Quarter district and that he is “committed to developing a world-class project that reflects Portland’s unique and creative culture.

“The vision of the partnership is to create a district that embodies the principles of sustainable development and that is authentic to Portland,” Cordish said. “It is not appropriate to use any of our existing projects as examples except from an overarching commitment to our quality and dedication to long-term ownership. The ultimate vision for the Rose Quarter and the timing of development depends on many factors, including input from the Portland community and reaching an agreement with the city.”

The Live! block could have restaurants, clubs, a 2,500-seat music venue, boutique hotel and a “Nike experience” area, Isaac said. That would be phase one, and in phase two the development could add a residential component and office space.

Isaac said Blazers management first learned of Cordish when the company responded to a request for proposals several years ago to manage the Rose Garden. In the intervening years, he said Cordish had “perfected” the Live! concept, and the Blazers initiated contact with Cordish about bringing it to the Rose Quarter.

“When you do something like this you have to have gravitational pull,” said Isaac, referring to the right blend of entertainment and restaurants. “It’s got to have its own draw, separate from the (Rose Garden) or (Beavers) stadium that it’s adjacent to.” Earlier attempts at having restaurants near the Rose Garden failed because they could not attract people to the area on non-game days, Isaac said.

Whatever the mix of restaurants and other activities, Isaac said the Live! block would use “cutting-edge sustainability principles.” He said “a big portion” of the block’s energy should be created on-site through the use of solar panels or wind turbines.

Though the economy is in a recession, Isaac said it’s important to begin planning now. “By the time we would be leasing (Live! space), I’m hoping we’ll be in a new business cycle,” he said.

http://www.djcoregon.com/articleDeta...-include-repla

zilfondel Mar 25, 2009 10:11 PM

Reviving the Rose Quarter
by Douglas L. Obletz, guest opinion
Saturday March 21, 2009, 9:06 AM
Douglas L. Obletz

Consider new, old ideas for creating a dynamic vision

With Friday's announcement that Major League Soccer is coming to Portland, we have a rare opportunity to make sustainable, long-term decisions about the Rose Quarter that can help cement its place alongside Portland's other exciting neighborhoods and create an anchor for economic development for the east side from which all Portlanders can benefit.

What's needed now is for the community, political leaders and the sports and entertainment interests to immediately begin working together toward a shared vision of a successful and sustainable Rose Quarter. Here are some ideas, new and not so new, that will help create that dynamic vision:

Minor league ballpark: A baseball stadium should not be shoehorned onto a demolished Memorial Coliseum site that would stand empty half the year. Instead, put it on the site of the Portland School District's oversized and outdated Blanchard Education Center just north of Broadway.

By moving the school district's administrative offices and warehouse to smaller, more energy-efficient buildings (or vacant space downtown), the district will save on operating costs; and the eight-block site will extend the Rose Quarter and its development opportunities.

This site is big enough to accommodate a stadium for the minors today that can be readily expanded for Major League Baseball in the future. Smart.

Save Memorial Coliseum: The Coliseum, which turns 50 this year, is just now old enough to be considered a historic landmark, but it has not worn out its usefulness. Don't tear it down -- do the Portland thing: Re-use it. By saving the glass box and removing the seating bowl, we can create a huge, flexible space and fill it with new uses.

A 2004 proposal to convert the Coliseum to the Memorial Athletic and Recreation Center, or MARC, is a big, bold Portland idea.

Portlanders paid for the Coliseum originally, and they should be given a chance to decide its future. Let's ask if they are willing to convert the Coliseum to a public sports and recreation center with pools, gyms, indoor soccer and lacrosse fields, a velodrome and indoor track open to all, with scholarships and grant programs to make sure no one gets turned away.

Let's also do what's right for our veterans by integrating a highly visual and accessible memorial.

Paul Allen's arts and entertainment center: With removal of the unsuccessful office and retail building and redesign of the large plaza west of the Rose Garden, there is plenty of room for the venue envisioned by Allen, extending the legacy of great entertainment in the Coliseum. Elvis, Dylan, Hendrix, Ike and Tina, even Evel Knievel rocked the Coliseum.

With the MARC and baseball stadium in the neighborhood, we'd build new memories. Everybody wins.

Health and wellness center: Area hospitals are interested in building health and wellness facilities that can have a truly positive impact and help reduce the cost of health care by teaching people healthy lifestyles. With Portland Streetcar crossing the Broadway Bridge this year, the accessibility of the Rose Quarter by public transit, bike and auto makes it a natural for this use.

Nike Oregon Sports Museum: This belongs in the MARC redevelopment, and it would have a lot more synergy with the thousands of kids and adults that would use those athletic facilities every week.

Other opportunities: Let's redevelop the old Red Lion Hotel site for housing to help open up underutilized waterfront properties and create more public access to the riverfront. And on Broadway, north of the Coliseum, there are two blocks that are a key gateway to the Lloyd District which could be developed compatibly to enhance the economic growth of the area.

Community: There is one other critical piece of this vision. Let's figure out a way to bring together the best resources and talents of the city, the neighborhoods surrounding the Rose Quarter, the Blazers, Beavers, Nike, Columbia Sportswear, Adidas and other members of our sports industry.

We need the cycling, fitness and running communities, the local soccer and lacrosse clubs, local hospitals and youth sports advocates, downtown and Lloyd District business interests. We need the people of Portland.

Let's make the Rose Quarter a showplace for Portland's sustainability and healthy lifestyle, its commitment to families, its love of participant and spectator sports and entertainment. Let's make it a place the people of Portland can be proud of and a place that captures the essence of Portland's livability.

Creation of a certain urban growth boundary in 1973 gave us guidance and made us the envy of national planning -- it's high time we do it again. The Rose Quarter can be a centerpiece for Portland's vision. The place is here. The time is now. It's up to us.

More information: www.dobetterportland.org

-- Douglas L. Obletz is president of Shiels Obletz Johnsen Inc., a Portland- and Seattle-based development and project management consulting firm.

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/in...e_quarter.html

http://chatterbox.typepad.com/.a/6a0...b433970b-300wi
image hosted at portlandarchitecture.com
courtesy of the Oregonian

zilfondel Mar 25, 2009 10:13 PM

Portland Architecture on the Rose Quarter redevelopment:

http://chatterbox.typepad.com/portla...rter-plan.html

Quote:

Instead of tearing down Memorial Coliseum for the ballpark, Obletz says, we should build the stadium across Broadway on the site of the Portland Public Schools Blanchard Education Center, which he calls "oversized and outdated."
Quote:

And regardless, I think Obletz's proposal is much, much better than what the Blazers and Beavers owner Merritt Paulsen have planned so far.

twofiftyfive Mar 26, 2009 1:16 AM

The city does not own all the land on that alternate baseball stadium site. PortlandMaps shows the assessed value of one of the blocks at nearly $5 million. Even if the city used eminent domain, that would significantly increase the cost of the stadium.

JordanL Mar 26, 2009 5:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twofiftyfive (Post 4160237)
The city does not own all the land on that alternate baseball stadium site. PortlandMaps shows the assessed value of one of the blocks at nearly $5 million. Even if the city used eminent domain, that would significantly increase the cost of the stadium.

The BESC is most of that space, and Multnomah County and Portland Public Schools jointly own that I believe... or perhaps it was PPS that owned it and Multnomah that rented space, I can't remember.

Anyway, PPS has been trying to get out of that building for almost four years.

MarkDaMan Mar 26, 2009 5:50 AM

^much longer than four years! I remember hearing about PPS moving all the way back to mid 90's.

JordanL Mar 26, 2009 6:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkDaMan (Post 4160682)
^much longer than four years! I remember hearing about PPS moving all the way back to mid 90's.

True, but I mean actively looking for buyers. I mean they'd been "looking" for someone to purchase Washington High for years too, but it wasn't until a few years ago that they actually got something going. There was no effort.

BESC is a hideous building. I would support the bond measure just to see it torn down.

scottyboi Mar 26, 2009 5:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

BESC is a hideous building. I would support the bond measure just to see it torn down.
Many people would say the same for Memorial Coliseum...

JordanL Mar 26, 2009 5:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboi (Post 4161261)
Quote:



Many people would say the same for Memorial Coliseum...

I'm actually of the opinion that MC is pretty ugly, but many here aren't.

It doesn't even begin to approach BESC though.

twofiftyfive Mar 26, 2009 9:11 PM

Here's what gets me when people compare (possibly) demolishing Memorial Coliseum to, say, razing the Portland Hotel or the cast iron buildings on 1st Ave.

I doubt there's an architect/construction firm in Portland that could give us a replica of those 19th century buildings we destroyed. The art of building like that has simply been lost. But (short of a crippling energy crisis) I can't foresee a future where we would be unable to build something just like Memorial Coliseum. Does that mean we should level it? Not necessarily, but comparing it to some of the crimes of the postwar era is disingenuous.

NewUrbanist Mar 31, 2009 9:33 PM

The Blanchard site is huge, but where will the funding to come to either construct a new building for the PPS district or move them to a new building? Those administrative types are not necessarily mass transit riders -I know an HR rep there who said his coworkers grumble about walking across the parking lot. With the current state of the PPS budget, I think we should consider private investors purchasing this site rather than assuming that they will be gifted a clean site and property while also expecting the city to foot the bill on moving them.

Crazy expectations. I wonder if the city isn't ready for this type of development work. While we are dreaming, why not build the new tallest over the ballpark with it's underside a faux sky that drizzles on hot days and provides warming sun on winter days. How about an indoor ski training center at memorial coliseum. People are losing their homes and jobs, and we want to talk about demolishing numerous relatively young buildings purchased with tax payer money for subsidized private development.

Also, the city should expect that this private property be zoned public space. Otherwise we will have just created an outdoor mall.

zilfondel Mar 31, 2009 10:19 PM

Go rent some square footage downtown; I thought the Standard Insurance Building is going to have some major vacancy due to the law firm moving to the Fox Tower? Maybe the Lloyd District is cheaper.

Who cares what the administrators think? They are public employees! Why are they so privileged to get their own parking space? What a great use of my tax money!

JordanL Mar 31, 2009 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilfondel (Post 4170001)
Go rent some square footage downtown; I thought the Standard Insurance Building is going to have some major vacancy due to the law firm moving to the Fox Tower? Maybe the Lloyd District is cheaper.

Who cares what the administrators think? They are public employees! Why are they so privileged to get their own parking space? What a great use of my tax money!

1. They are looking to sell BESC because it's close to downtown where rent is high. They are trying to move AWAY from the ridiculous rent for space that could realistically be placed anywhere in the city.

2. They are interested in working closer with MESD (Multnomah Education Services District) which has more of their offices on the east side and near Clackamas.

3. The walking the HR rep was talking about has to do with the fact that there are almost 3/4 as many parking spaces as there are employees, not with "I don't like walking". Then the city comes through and tickets employees for parking places their not supposed to, which because of the Rose Garden can literally force some employees to park over half a mile from BESC.

4. The idea right now is that PPS wants to sell BESC and use the proceeds from the sale to move into a smaller, less expensive location.

5. Part of the parking issue is that there are plenty of "on site" service workers that have to check in at BESC, but are required to all own and individually drive vehicles because they travel to school sites to perform work. "Let them eat cake" is ridiculous and sophomoric in this situation.

PS: Very few of the people "employed" at BESC are administrators in the sense you're thinking of. Many are employed there but perform real labor, such as those in the IT department that maintain the servers/do call center support, or perform maintenance in school buildings around the district.

PPS: All of this information comes from personal experience. I worked for PPS at BESC for two years.

stan Mar 31, 2009 11:18 PM

I don't know what vacancies in the Lloyd District looks like, but it seems like it would be the most logical place to either rent space or to build a new building. It has decent mass transit and fairly easy to access from all part of the metro area.

Anybody know why PPS built BESC at its current location? The area is desolate enough now, I can't imagine what it was like post Albina urban renewal.

MarkDaMan Apr 1, 2009 1:57 AM

^Programming needs, they have the large central kitchen, a storage warehouse, other departments as Jordan mentioned such as the main engineering shop; and other PPS employees use BESC as their 'check in office' because they don't have a home school.

Standard Insurance wouldn't work, too expensive for one, and what about the central kitchen and shop?

They need a campus style arrangement, but I don't see why Swan Island couldn't accommodate them, or better yet, they have a bunch of empty property, schools that have been closed, and can renovate and add onto the property.

I've been trying to point out, like NewUrbanist, the BESC has so much value (like the Post Office) that its going to take some big pockets, and a big project/development, before anything happens.

designpdx Apr 8, 2009 12:33 AM

Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 2:14pm PDT | Modified: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 5:22pm
On deck: Memorial Coliseum demolition
Portland Business Journal

Mayor Sam Adams on Tuesday said Memorial Coliseum’s days are numbered.

But that’s about the only thing that's certain after two days of conceptual planning for a redeveloped Rose Quarter.

Officials with the Portland Trail Blazers, representatives of Portland Beavers owner Merritt Paulson, the Portland Development Commission and others spent the past two days working to meld the Trail Blazers desire to build a live entertainment district at the Rose Quarter with Paulson’s plans to build a new baseball stadium there.

What they have come up with so far is a series of designs, all of which incorporate a baseball stadium with home plate closest to Broadway Boulevard facing toward the downtown skyline. The concepts also included variations on an entertainment district that would include retail shopping, restaurants, an interactive Nike exhibit, and potentially a small, 200-room hotel.

The concepts require the demolition of the Memorial Coliseum, a development that Adams said he didn’t want to come as a surprise to the community. He said veterans would be consulted in the process.

With work yet to come, Adams called the initial collaboration a sign of action after years of dormant planning.

“There have been many plans for this district over the years, but very little action,” Adams said. “Now’s the time for action.”

The planning workshop will continue this week.

Next Tuesday, the city is hosting an open house from 6-8 p.m. at the Leftbank Project, 240 N. Broadway Blvd., where the public can give input on the results of the workshop.

Ultimately, a final design will come before the City Council on April 21, Adams said.

The urgency of the design process comes largely from the city’s plan to redevelop PGE Park — the Beavers’ current home – to host a Major League Soccer franchise that will start play in 2011.

That plan includes building a $55 million baseball stadium for the Beavers on the site of Memorial Coliseum in time for the 2011 season.

But Trail Blazers officials have balked, airing concerns that a Rose Quarter baseball stadium could hamper the NBA franchise’s redevelopment plans. Among the concerns was the potential loss of critical parking structures and the team’s office building.

J. Isaac, the team’s senior vice president of business affairs, lauded the efforts thus far.

“We at least now understand what each other’s needs are,” Isaac said.

But challenges remain. The concepts thus far still would remove the team’s offices and potentially the parking structures.

Adams said those issues are being worked out, and solutions could include adding levels to the parking structures.

The city is still working to fill gaps in the financing of the stadium projects. Financial projections for the Rose Quarter development, Adams said, aren’t part of the design process under way the past two days.

bvpcvm Apr 8, 2009 12:37 AM

Broadway "Boulevard"? Is it really so hard to get the names right? That's even worse than Henry's 12th "Street" Tavern. Ugh.

tworivers Apr 8, 2009 2:12 AM

Yeah, that is truly pathetic journalism.

And Adams is looking less and less like the "design mayor" every day.

MightyAlweg Apr 8, 2009 8:45 AM

Very interesting that they are going for the Live! entertainment mall plan. The LA Live! here in SoCal near the Los Angeles Convention Center is coming together nicely and has really livened up the area there. Personally, I'm just thrilled with a new Trader Vics to have Mai Tai's at when I go to the Auto Show!

But a Portland Live! mall with some big restaurants and such, like Trader Vics, Flemings Steakhouse, Lawry's Carvery, ESPNZone, Wolfgang Puck, etc. will do wonders for the convention trade for Portland.

http://www.lalive.com/index.php


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