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-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

JHikka Mar 25, 2022 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9578187)
Our sports media have been trying their best to get me (and all Canadian sports fans) turned on to NCAA March Madness since I was in university over 25 years ago.

NCAA MM is wildly popular. TV ratings don't capture things like office brackets, general pop culture, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9578187)
Since then they have considerably reduced their coverage (not just live games, but sportscasts especially) of the CHL.

Judging from TSN's results so far this season I can see why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9578187)
Used to be there was a package of CHL playoff game highlights and when the Memorial Cup was on there would be pretty intensive coverage on sportscasts too.

There usually still is, AFAIK, but it depends on who the rights partner is and how much exposure they're giving it. SN/Rogers did literally nothing for the CHL for years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack
But is it really true that younger audiences are more lucrative right now to advertisers than older ones?

Yes. Generalizing, but younger people's purchasing habits are still moldable. Younger people are working with more disposable income. Older folks already know what they like and aren't going to go out and buy something new. There's more value in 18-34 or 18-55 numbers for things like advertisers, social media interaction, public exposure etc. NASCAR has 3x-4x the viewers in the US than F1 but F1 nearly matches them on 18-50 viewers most of the time.

Many of the sports that do well on Canadian TV are heavily slanted towards 55+ because those are the people primarily still captured by ratings. The commercials and types of advertisers running during events are always an easy indicator of how old the audience is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack
And yet some people tell us younger people do not watch TV any more.

Not on cable, anyway, and TV ratings only capture those cable numbers, unless folks like TSN explicitly release streaming numbers.

Acajack Mar 25, 2022 1:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9578677)
NCAA MM is wildly popular. TV ratings don't capture things like office brackets, general pop culture, etc.

.

NCAA MM TV ratings are still sky-high and at near record levels in the US, so there is the question of why it isn't quite following the same path in Canada.

That said, I would never say that it hasn't become quite popular in Canada over the years.

If it hadn't it might actually register as the most unsuccessful mass media marketing blitz in history.

They've even been pushing it really hard in Quebec in the past five years or so. Especially RDS which is of course allied with TSN and, by extension, ESPN. Though AFAIK we don't have any live coverage of games on Quebec networks until the very end of the tournament. But they do chat it up on sportscasts and magazine shows occasionally. Not long ago you never used to hear anything about it here.

JHikka Mar 25, 2022 1:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9578718)
NCAA MM TV ratings are still sky-high and at near record levels in the US, so there is the question of why it isn't quite following the same path in Canada.

We only have one window to examine in Canada thus far this year. Given COVID's down years i'd give it another week or two before saying anything definitive on this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9578718)
They've even been pushing it really hard in Quebec in the past five years or so. Especially RDS which is of course allied with TSN and, by extension, ESPN. Though AFAIK we don't have any live coverage of games on Quebec networks until the very end of the tournament. But they do chat it up on sportscasts and magazine shows occasionally. Not long ago you never used to hear anything about it here.

Sounds like growth to me.

Acajack Mar 25, 2022 1:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9578720)
We only have one window to examine in Canada thus far this year. Given COVID's down years i'd give it another week or two before saying anything definitive on this.


Sounds like growth to me.

Obviously if you push seeds already in the soil down further into the ground to the point they get no warmth from the sun, and lay a whole bunch of new seeds down on top near the surface with tons of fertilizer, the new seeds will flourish.

No doubt about that!

ScreamingViking Mar 25, 2022 3:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9578677)
Not on cable, anyway, and TV ratings only capture those cable numbers, unless folks like TSN explicitly release streaming numbers.

Is that the real issue here. I'd think the NCAA tournament has streaming options that the curling does not, and the numbers don't reflect that.

JHikka Mar 25, 2022 3:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking (Post 9578863)
Is that the real issue here. I'd think the NCAA tournament has streaming options that the curling does not, and the numbers don't reflect that.

Do we have access to TSN streaming figures for NCAA? Again, we're working on just one MM window for Canada and don't have access to numbers for other windows or games thus far.

I'm assuming curling streaming numbers are less than NCAA for both legal and illegal streams in Canada. Curling's audience is going to be primarily focused on cable figures given demographics of viewing audience.

VANRIDERFAN Mar 25, 2022 3:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9578739)
Obviously if you push seeds already in the soil down further into the ground to the point they get no warmth from the sun, and lay a whole bunch of new seeds down on top near the surface with tons of fertilizer, the new seeds will flourish.

No doubt about that!

I actually met a person last night who watches NCAA basketball all season and knew the teams and players and he was from Newfoundland. Other than that I can count one on hand the amount of people I interact with (young and old) who know what they are talking about when it comes to MM.

I picked a bracket because my son wanted me to be in his bracket group but I had no idea what I was doing and haven't watched a second of MM. Though I do check the SCORE app (which is fantastic btw) quite a bit for all sorts of sports.

Acajack Mar 25, 2022 4:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN (Post 9578918)
I actually met a person last night who watches NCAA basketball all season and knew the teams and players and he was from Newfoundland. Other than that I can count one on hand the amount of people I interact with (young and old) who know what they are talking about when it comes to MM.

I picked a bracket because my son wanted me to be in his bracket group but I had no idea what I was doing and haven't watched a second of MM. Though I do check the SCORE app (which is fantastic btw) quite a bit for all sorts of sports.

I have a group of buddies I hang out with about once a week. We've been doing this for years. The nucleus is a legacy group from back when our kids did organized activities together. I am usually the oldest of the group but the age spans from late 30s to early 50s. It's mostly Québécois francophones with some guys of immigrant origins who have integrated with the Québécois majority. And a dash of Franco-Ontariens.

We often talk sports: mostly NHL and hockey in general but also Olympics, MLS, FIFA WC, tennis, F1 and combat sports. A bit of NFL, a bit of CFL. Baseball very occasionally.

Over all these years NCAA MM has never come up in the discussions.

jonny24 Mar 31, 2022 8:29 PM

A LETTER TO OUR FANS: WE’RE FINALLY HOME

Quote:

This Saturday, April 2 at 12 p.m. ET at York Lions Stadium, the Toronto Arrows will play our first Major League Rugby home match in 1,035 days after 30 consecutive road matches… likely a record in professional rugby history!
It's hard to believe this is actually happening, but the Arrows will play at home for the first time since June 2019! I'm getting very excited now that this weekend is finally upon us.

Arrows up!

Acajack May 29, 2022 8:21 PM

Was the IIHF world hockey championship final between Canada and Finland broadcast anywhere in English?

I watched it on RDS network 1 but did not see it on TSN, Sportsnet or even the CBC.

CBC were showing rugby between Fiji and Samoa, with their own announcers!

Sportsnet also had some regional Australian rugby (Warringah?) on one of their channels.

elly63 May 29, 2022 9:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9636410)
Was the IIHF world hockey championship final between Canada and Finland broadcast anywhere in English?

I caught the OT on Freesports

Djeffery May 29, 2022 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9636410)
Was the IIHF world hockey championship final between Canada and Finland broadcast anywhere in English?

I watched it on RDS network 1 but did not see it on TSN, Sportsnet or even the CBC.

CBC were showing rugby between Fiji and Samoa, with their own announcers!

Sportsnet also had some regional Australian rugby (Warringah?) on one of their channels.

I didn't actually watch, so I don't know if it was actually on, but I just scrolled back on my Bell Fibe channel guide and see it was on TSN at 1pm. Of the 5 TSN channels, IIHF was on 2 of them, French Open Tennis was on 2 and Nascar Canada and F1 were on the other.

esquire May 29, 2022 10:13 PM

I didn't watch the game but I certainly saw enough mentions of it in my twitter feed to make me believe it was available somewhere?!

thurmas May 29, 2022 10:35 PM

I didn't even know it was being played I was at the gym with 20 different tvs on and they only had basketball and race car driving on.

Acajack May 30, 2022 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 9636463)
I didn't actually watch, so I don't know if it was actually on, but I just scrolled back on my Bell Fibe channel guide and see it was on TSN at 1pm. Of the 5 TSN channels, IIHF was on 2 of them, French Open Tennis was on 2 and Nascar Canada and F1 were on the other.

OK thanks.

thurmas May 31, 2022 9:48 PM

CF montreal only averaging 13700 fans a game 26th in mls attendance. Team is winning so I gotta think the location of Stade Saputo must be hurting them? I wonder if they relocated to molson stadium and renovated it would they have better attendance downtown?

blueandgoldguy Jun 1, 2022 12:08 AM

Montreal will be in danger of moving if they don't get those significant renovations to stade saputo in the near future. They play in an MLS 1.0 stadium which doesn't provide the revenue streams that the other newer stadiums enjoy. Same applies to Vancouver. Both teams are last in terms of revenue in the MLS losing buckets of money every year.

thurmas Jun 1, 2022 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy (Post 9638039)
Montreal will be in danger of moving if they don't get those significant renovations to stade saputo in the near future. They play in an MLS 1.0 stadium which doesn't provide the revenue streams that the other newer stadiums enjoy. Same applies to Vancouver. Both teams are last in terms of revenue in the MLS losing buckets of money every year.

I heard whitcecaps are on pace to losing 10 million per year again this year and their player payroll is only 11 million. They are only averaging 16000 and change attendance wise this year.

blueandgoldguy Jun 1, 2022 2:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9638044)
I heard whitcecaps are on pace to losing 10 million per year again this year and their player payroll is only 11 million. They are only averaging 16000 and change attendance wise this year.

Yes, I'm sure they will lose at least that amount. The club is pretty terrible and has been mostly terrible for the past several seasons. The Lions receive a small percentage of concession revenues and they do not receive any ancillary revenues from things like parking or concerts at the BC Place. This is another team that is likely in trouble even though they invested money in some training infrastructure and their academy. Unless the cheap ownership is willing to invest significant money into a stadium for which they control all the revenues, I think they would also relocate to the US if the right offer and stadium came along.

blueandgoldguy Jun 6, 2022 8:38 PM

Attendance for the Canadian Premier League looks pretty bad for the most part. The league definitely lost momentum due to COVID.

I try to watch whatever highlights of the games whenever available:

-Edmonton games announce attendance around 500, but it looks like there are around 100 people there.
-Winnipeg games announce crowds around 2500, but it looks like 1000 or so people in attendance.
-Calgary games announce crowds of 3-4000...looks about right.
-Pacific FC games announce crowds around 3,000...looks about right
- Halifax Wanderers no longer sellout but come pretty close so they are still going strong.
-York...no idea, but I remember their attendance was pretty terrible in the past.
-Hamilton averages around 3,000...looks about right.
-Ottawa averaging between 3-4000...hard to tell how many people are there as almost the entire crowd is on the same side as the camera.

Attendance is noticeably down from 3 year ago. I'm sure some of that may be due to the lingering effects of COVID, but not necessarily all of it. It will be interesting to see how some of the teams deal with terrible attendance and financial losses in the coming years leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Will they be willing to sustain losses that likely add up to millions of dollars in the hopes of a turnaround in 5 or 6 years...or will some owners throw up their hands and walk away?

Edmonton is a team to watch. The owner had to find additional ownership/investors for the team last year or earlier this year from what I heard. That team has been hemorraging money for years going back to their North American Soccer League days.

esquire Jun 6, 2022 9:03 PM

The team in Winnipeg has taken a real beating from two major factors... COVID, and they have been horrible on the field. Bad spring weather this year hasn't helped either.

Valour FC has a fairly low profile locally. They get some media coverage but not really a whole lot. There was some excitement and some decent crowds when they started up in 2019 but their crap record followed by the pandemic really let the air out of their tires.

I haven't been to a match yet this season but from the highlights I've watched the crowds look super sparse even compared to last season, the 1,000 number sounds about right. You can basically hear individual people talking in the stands at that point. There is zero atmosphere in a 33,000 seat stadium when you have so few people in it.

For what it's worth Valour is not alone. The Goldeyes have had small crowds too at the ballpark, as we all know the Jets didn't sell out a single game last season and the Moose and ICE struggled at times too. It's been a rough go lately for the home teams.

thurmas Jun 6, 2022 9:43 PM

Seems canada wide most teams in many sports struggling with attendance. With local sports tv and radio stations being dismantled past few years wonder if that is playing a part as they were good areas to get them publicity.

elly63 Jun 7, 2022 2:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy (Post 9642364)
It will be interesting to see how some of the teams deal with terrible attendance and financial losses in the coming years leading up to the 2026 World Cup. Will they be willing to sustain losses that likely add up to millions of dollars in the hopes of a turnaround in 5 or 6 years...or will some owners throw up their hands and walk away?.

With the kerfuffle currently going on between the CSA, CSB and the Men's NT, some of those questions might be answered

thurmas Jun 7, 2022 10:25 PM

https://3downnation.com/2022/06/07/r...atings-on-tsn/

Preseason TV ratings, 2022:

Toronto at Ottawa — 145,000
Winnipeg at Saskatchewan — 212,000
Ottawa at Montreal — 174,000
Saskatchewan at B.C. — 348,000

Average: 219,750

Denscity Jun 8, 2022 2:56 AM

Why is BC Saskatchewan way higher than Winnipeg Saskatchewan?

esquire Jun 8, 2022 4:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9643686)
Why is BC Saskatchewan way higher than Winnipeg Saskatchewan?

More people in BC than in Manitoba? More people predisposed to watching football on the weekend as compared to on a Tuesday night? Wpg-Sask was so early in the preseason that many people may not have been aware it was happening as well.

Denscity Jun 8, 2022 9:45 PM

Winnipeg is more a traditional CFL hotspot than Vancouver and have a winning team again finally.

blueandgoldguy Jun 8, 2022 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9644580)
Winnipeg is more a traditional CFL hotspot than Vancouver and have a winning team again finally.

It likely has to do with the rescheduling of the game and the time it occurred.

When Winnipeg and Saskatchewan meet on Labour Day, it should be the highest rated game of the regular season as it always is.

Denscity Jun 9, 2022 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy (Post 9644603)
It likely has to do with the rescheduling of the game and the time it occurred.

When Winnipeg and Saskatchewan meet on Labour Day, it should be the highest rated game of the regular season as it always is.

Ya thats what I would figure.
And maybe a lot of Lions fans were only dormant and are now coming back with the new ownership.

q12 Jun 9, 2022 8:00 PM

https://i.redd.it/mg9u2gu9ja491.jpg

Hawrylyshyn Jun 9, 2022 8:11 PM

What's up with Edmonton???

elly63 Jun 9, 2022 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn (Post 9645551)
What's up with Edmonton???

What's up with Toronto?

esquire Jun 9, 2022 8:18 PM

Those Winnipeg numbers are probably double what it has looked like in the stands, although the chilly weather up until last week may have been keeping people with tickets away.

thurmas Jun 9, 2022 8:28 PM

I wish valour played next door at pan am stadium 5000 seats and natural grass would be way better atmosphere than 33500 seats at IG.

blueandgoldguy Jun 9, 2022 8:35 PM

Edmonton has always had bad attendance going back to their North American Soccer Days a few years ago.

I've heard a few people online complain about the stadium saying there is at least one other site with comparable capacity that would serve as a better home. The owner has also put together terrible teams year after year for most of the teams existence. That won't help sell tickets.

esquire Jun 9, 2022 8:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9645596)
I wish valour played next door at pan am stadium 5000 seats and natural grass would be way better atmosphere than 33500 seats at IG.

The place would need a lot of work to handle a pro team... there isn't much there. It's extremely basic. The field is in bad shape too. But it probably would be the most realistic shot at getting Valour out of IG Field.

thurmas Jun 9, 2022 8:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9645621)
The place would need a lot of work to handle a pro team... there isn't much there. It's extremely basic. The field is in bad shape too. But it probably would be the most realistic shot at getting Valour out of IG Field.

Its very basic but a little bit of money spent and could be a much better option for valour

esquire Jun 9, 2022 8:53 PM

^ Come to think of it, Pan Am Stadium doesn't even have lighting, which always struck me as odd. So there's another expense to add to the list.

-Grandstand upgrades
-Media facilities
-Premium seating
-F&B (there isn't even a concession stand)
-Expanded washrooms
-Lighting and sound systems
-Scoreboard
-Field improvements

That's a lot. I wonder if the teams could use the dressing rooms at IG Field to save the cost of having to add that?

thurmas Jun 9, 2022 8:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9645649)
^ Come to think of it, Pan Am Stadium doesn't even have lighting, which always struck me as odd. So there's another expense to add to the list.

-Grandstand upgrades
-Media facilities
-Premium seating
-F&B (there isn't even a concession stand)
-Expanded washrooms
-Lighting and sound systems
-Scoreboard
-Field improvements

That's a lot. I wonder if the teams could use the dressing rooms at IG Field to save the cost of having to add that?

Maybe play at assiniaboia downs think of all the gambling revenue

esquire Jun 9, 2022 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9645657)
Maybe play at assiniaboia downs think of all the gambling revenue

Or we could just build a proper 5,000 seat soccer stadium? :shrug:

Although I know the traditional Winnipeg thing to do would be to create some sort of weird franken-stadium where we try to save a few bucks by mashing a soccer field into an existing golf course or some such.

blueandgoldguy Jun 9, 2022 9:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9645673)
Or we could just build a proper 5,000 seat soccer stadium? :shrug:

Although I know the traditional Winnipeg thing to do would be to create some sort of weird franken-stadium where we try to save a few bucks by mashing a soccer field into an existing golf course or some such.

IF the Goldeyes ever fold, 5-10 years from now maybe that is what would happen - relocation of the Valour to Shaw Park. There have been some soccer teams in the US that have played in baseball stadiums. Kansas City played some seasons in a 6,000 seat stadium prior to moving to their new stadium a few years back.

plrh Jun 10, 2022 3:29 AM

Couldn't they just build a new grandstand at the Winnipeg Soccer Complex? It already seats 2000 on one side. Maybe repaint the wood bench seating too?

jonny24 Jun 10, 2022 12:29 PM

I thought half the raison d'etre of Valour was to fill dates at IGF? Relocating them won't do that.

thurmas Jun 10, 2022 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonny24 (Post 9646149)
I thought half the raison d'etre of Valour was to fill dates at IGF? Relocating them won't do that.

2000 fans in a 33,500 seat stadium is killing them off right now

esquire Jun 10, 2022 3:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9646153)
2000 fans in a 33,500 seat stadium is killing them off right now

In fairness Valour really wouldn't work anywhere with 2,000 fans. They have been pummeled by a lot of factors beyond their control, along with the fact that they have been a downright lousy team. They got off to a good start and had they been able to keep it up with 6 or 7 thousand fans a game it would have worked out fine. But alas.

Winnipeg Soccer Complex is basically an amateur facility. It's the kind of place where U16 teams play in front of family and friends. Building a pro calibre venue there means starting pretty much from scratch, and I'm not sure there is any real advantage to putting it there as compared to just about anywhere else.

But to jonny24's point, yes, as long as Valour FC is under the Bombers' wing, they will always be at IG Field. Which is fine, they just need to get the attendance numbers back up to where they were in 2019.

Hawrylyshyn Jun 10, 2022 5:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 9645559)
What's up with Toronto?

Lol why are you getting defensive. :haha:

York have a pretty embarrassing attendance too. My biggest guest would be it's hard to compete with TFC and all of the other pro sports teams in the city -- people have limited money right now, so I'm sure will choose other things over the CPL for their precious and limited money.

I wish the CPL had some games broadcast on national television networks like TSN-- would be very beneficial in gaining more popularity and viewership for the league IMO. Only die hards are going to subscribe to OneSoccer, so you have the potential to increase the casual fan base if a wider audience can watch the games

Harrison Jun 10, 2022 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn (Post 9645551)
What's up with Edmonton???

Probably having the Oilers go far in the playoffs this year drew people's attention away from FC Edmonotn, at least that's one of the impacts I think. Hard to think of soccer when the city has playoff hockey fever.

elly63 Jun 12, 2022 11:34 AM

I'm confused, are the Vancouver Sun and Vancouver Province now the same organization. I just wanted to see the stories about the Lions great home opener and both online papers had the exact same story.

Denscity Jun 12, 2022 12:54 PM

^^^ Yes and for a while I think?

Crowd was 34000. And would have been higher but it was capped due to a staffing shortage

thurmas Jun 15, 2022 1:09 PM

MLS and apple have signed a 10 year $250 million per year tv deal. This will be 9.6 million a year for the 3 Canadian teams i believe the previous mls u.s. tv deal they are currently in pays 90 million per year


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