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hollywoodcory Nov 16, 2021 5:31 AM

On another note, AC requested and obtained slots for YYZ-LGW as well?

WS is status quo. No real change.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrI...I0NWQwYjY3YiJ9

ghYHZ Nov 16, 2021 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9452053)
True, but AA was at YYZ before the arrival of pre-clearance.

True....but my original post had nothing to do with when AA started flights from YYZ or for that matter when TCA (AC) began theirs to New York.

Just the point that it was AA that began the original pre-clearance in '52.

If anyone want's to do the research into the first flights ...here's a good link:

http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/...e/complete.htm

JakeLRS Nov 16, 2021 5:59 PM

2022 is going to be an absolute bloodshed in terms of competition...

New Calgary-based ULCC Lynx Air will be launching in 2022 (I believe this is the former JetNaked airline that has Indigo funding).

And there is also Canada Jetlines that wants to launch in 2022 (for the 4th time now?)

On top of that, Swoop and Flair are expanding like crazy next summer. Flair will have about 16 aircraft while Swoop will have at least 10.

Lynx and CanadaJetlines won't have that big of a fleet (3 and 2 aircraft respectively), but those are lots of seats. I feel Lynx will face the least competition since it looks like they will be based in Calgary and will likely only have to compete with Westjet, and potentially AC and Flair. Jetlines is anyone's guess really.

Dominion301 Nov 16, 2021 7:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9452488)
2022 is going to be an absolute bloodshed in terms of competition...

New Calgary-based ULCC Lynx Air will be launching in 2022 (I believe this is the former JetNaked airline that has Indigo funding).

And there is also Canada Jetlines that wants to launch in 2022 (for the 4th time now?)

On top of that, Swoop and Flair are expanding like crazy next summer. Flair will have about 16 aircraft while Swoop will have at least 10.

Lynx and CanadaJetlines won't have that big of a fleet (3 and 2 aircraft respectively), but those are lots of seats. I feel Lynx will face the least competition since it looks like they will be based in Calgary and will likely only have to compete with Westjet, and potentially AC and Flair. Jetlines is anyone's guess really.

I thought Indigo was behind the Enerjet ULCC, but I thought they walked away? Plus wouldn't they want to equipment an airline with 32Xs?

I wonder if this is the Enerjet reboot regardless given the YYC HQ and 737 obsession?

Speaking of Flair, they're adding some additional sun routes starting in February 2022:
YXX-SJD
YEG-SJD
YOW-CUN - essentially replaces the never launched YOW-LAS
YVR-SJD
YKF-CUN

thewave46 Nov 16, 2021 7:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9452075)
On another note, AC requested and obtained slots for YYZ-LGW as well?

WS is status quo. No real change.

Odd for AC to go back to Gatwick given they have plenty of Heathrow slots, and Rouge doesn't have anything that can hop across the Atlantic.

One would think they'd increase frequency from YYZ to Heathrow first.

Aside from BA, I can't think of anybody who runs a split operation to Gatwick and Heathrow for transatantic flights.

thewave46 Nov 16, 2021 7:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9452488)
2022 is going to be an absolute bloodshed in terms of competition...

At least we'll have the benefits of that until the whole thing comes apart in a couple of years.

I can't see it all lasting, mostly. I thought the entry of Flair was going to be a short experiment.

Calfan12 Nov 16, 2021 11:30 PM

Should be Interesting to see what Lynx Air destinations in Canada are planned for its 1st 3 Boeing 737Max 2022!

Calfan12 Nov 16, 2021 11:34 PM

Yep there's going to be good competition for Airlines in Canada and also (F8) Flair Airlines is the only monopoly low cost airline ✈️ option at Calgary YYC currently operating limited point to point flights and there is room with Lynx Air coming in 2022 to compete with Flair✅.

While WestJet & Air Canada are battling it out for more of the Business/Premium passengers out of YYC & also some leisurely 1's too!

Calfan12 Nov 16, 2021 11:37 PM

[[QUOTE=JakeLRS: 2022 is going to be an absolute bloodshed in terms of competition...

New Calgary-based ULCC Lynx Air will be launching in 2022 (I believe this is the former JetNaked airline that has Indigo funding).

And there is also Canada Jetlines that wants to launch in 2022 (for the 4th time now?)

On top of that, Swoop and Flair are expanding like crazy next summer. Flair will have about 16 aircraft while Swoop will have at least 10.

Lynx and CanadaJetlines won't have that big of a fleet (3 and 2 aircraft respectively), but those are lots of seats. I feel Lynx will face the least competition since it looks like they will be based in Calgary and will likely only have to compete with Westjet, and potentially AC and Flair. Jetlines is anyone's guess really. QUOTE]

Yep there's going to be good competition for Airlines in Canada and with (F8) Flair Airlines the only monopoly low cost airline ✈️ option at Calgary YYC currently operating limited point to point flights and there is room with Lynx Air coming in 2022 to compete with Flair✅.

As WestJet & Air Canada are battling it out for more of the Business/Premium passengers out of YYC & also some leisurely 1's too!

thenoflyzone Nov 17, 2021 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9452488)
2022 is going to be an absolute bloodshed in terms of competition...

New Calgary-based ULCC Lynx Air will be launching in 2022 (I believe this is the former JetNaked airline that has Indigo funding).

And there is also Canada Jetlines that wants to launch in 2022 (for the 4th time now?)

On top of that, Swoop and Flair are expanding like crazy next summer. Flair will have about 16 aircraft while Swoop will have at least 10.

Lynx and CanadaJetlines won't have that big of a fleet (3 and 2 aircraft respectively), but those are lots of seats. I feel Lynx will face the least competition since it looks like they will be based in Calgary and will likely only have to compete with Westjet, and potentially AC and Flair. Jetlines is anyone's guess really.

None of this really worries AC. They still have a healthy 51% of available seat kilometers (ASKs) domestically.

That's what you would call a majority. They essentially have the Canadian domestic market by the balls. Westjet/Swoop is a distance second with 30%. Between the two of them, that's over 81% ASKs domestically. Transat and the ULCC's are basically irrelevant domestically at the moment. Maybe in a few years, with PD upping its game with the E195s and Flair growing its fleet (while somehow managing to stay alive, mind you), that will change. But for now, AC/WS are unfazed by all the changes happening on the domestic front.

A good analysis on CAPA.

https://centreforaviation.com/analys...-canada-587259

Dominion301 Nov 17, 2021 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 9452144)
True....but my original post had nothing to do with when AA started flights from YYZ or for that matter when TCA (AC) began theirs to New York.

Just the point that it was AA that began the original pre-clearance in '52.

If anyone want's to do the research into the first flights ...here's a good link:

http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/...e/complete.htm

Copy that and thanks for the link. :tup:

Calfan12 Nov 17, 2021 10:16 AM

Currently Air Canada is around 85% Capacity - https://www.aircanada.com/content/da...q2_release.pdf

followed by WestJet with about 70% capacity - mentions it the cp24 news article https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.cp2...1_5646045.html

Flair - according to Yahoo article mentions “Flair's domestic seat capacity in 2021 has grown 211 per cent when compared to 2020”, according to National Bank Financial analyst Cameron Doerksen. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/ca.finan...153049888.html

Swoop - capacity early in 2021 was down 90% & simpleflying article mentions Swoop saw increased demand/bookings Summer 2021,with vacation & holiday packages available through to April 2022.

“We’ve seen a significant increase in demand for travel this summer, most especially in provinces where vaccination and re-opening plans are on track and clearly outlined. With the release of our winter schedule, those who are planning further ahead or dreaming of a vacation abroad can find our always affordable flights and Getaway packages available for booking through April 2022,” Duncan shared in a statement.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/simplefl...owth-2021/amp/

J81 Nov 17, 2021 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9452061)
Wow not only YQM to YEG, but YYG too. Who would of ever thought that 15 years ago?

Also confirms that WO will be coming back to YXU.

15 years ago WS did fly YQM-YEG

YYCguys Nov 17, 2021 4:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J81 (Post 9453155)
15 years ago WS did fly YQM-YEG

Non stop? I don’t recall that! I don’t even recall YQM-YYC non stop! I recall one stop service via YHM however.

Dominion301 Nov 17, 2021 5:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J81 (Post 9453155)
15 years ago WS did fly YQM-YEG

Wasn't that 1-stop service?

Dominion301 Nov 17, 2021 5:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9452625)
I thought Indigo was behind the Enerjet ULCC, but I thought they walked away? Plus wouldn't they want to equipment an airline with 32Xs?

I wonder if this is the Enerjet reboot regardless given the YYC HQ and 737 obsession?

Speaking of Flair, they're adding some additional sun routes starting in February 2022:
YXX-SJD
YEG-SJD
YOW-CUN - essentially replaces the never launched YOW-LAS
YVR-SJD
YKF-CUN

CONFIRMED: Lynx is the reincarnated Enerjet: https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...rrier-lynx-air

WS founder Tim Morgan will be the airline's COO.

JakeLRS Nov 17, 2021 7:07 PM

Awh won't you look at that, Flair and Lynx are already in love with each other!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...68a2cef4_z.jpgFlair.V.Lynx1
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...777b30d7_z.jpgFlair.V.Lynx2

hollywoodcory Nov 17, 2021 9:22 PM

https://westjet.mediaroom.com/2021-1...w-from-Calgary

Its official. WS adding YYC-LHR in 2022.

Coldrsx Nov 17, 2021 9:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9453626)

:haha::cheers:lolz

esquire Nov 17, 2021 9:59 PM

I enjoy how corporations talking shit to each other using memes on social media has become a thing :haha:


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