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whatnext Jul 14, 2020 9:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8980880)
Where do you see Dash -300s ? All the news links say Q400s exclusively. Which is the wrong aircraft for most/if not all of these routes.

I wish them luck but I doubt it’s going to work. They seem to think demand isn’t there because prices are high. It’s the other way around really. Prices are high because there is little demand. If AC could barely make these routes work with Dash 100s and 300s, good luck making them work with Q400s.

Pascan’s aircraft are better sized for these routes. The only problem is they fly to YHU, not YUL. So no connections to intl flights possible, unless you do it on your own, which if done on the same day is risky!

Jazz only makes it "work" because AC buys the capacity and uses it to feed longerer haul flights. Without that, the only other way a new shorthaul turboprop carrier has a hope in hell is to be like Porter and start out with a sweetheart deal with a certain airport.

thenoflyzone Jul 14, 2020 9:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 8981112)

Tremblant to Charlevoix? For what? To shuttle around casino employees? Lol. Montreal-Sherbrooke? A bit ridiculous.

hollywoodcory Jul 14, 2020 9:56 PM

Air Canada originally had YYC-YWG suspended until after Labour day, but they now plan to resume the route August 1.

I surprised YYC-FRA survived another schedule change, but I'm still doubtful it will be resuming in August.

wave46 Jul 14, 2020 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 8981182)
Jazz only makes it "work" because AC buys the capacity and uses it to feed longerer haul flights. Without that, the only other way a new shorthaul turboprop carrier has a hope in hell is to be like Porter and start out with a sweetheart deal with a certain airport.

The airport Porter uses certainly does protect them from much competition. It also limits their growth.

I'd say that Treq could make a go of it if it used a model like Provincial Airways or Perimeter Aviation. Smaller planes = less onerous regulations. You'd probably have enough traffic to fill a 19-seater on government contracts alone. They might even get some corporate self-connects via Montreal. There's plenty of Dash8-100s and 1900s available. The Q400 is the stuff of dreams and burnt investor cash though.

I doubt the established competition is lining up to fight over crumbs, especially since they just got out of that business.

hollywoodcory Jul 16, 2020 8:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 8975330)
AC updated its August long haul schedule and the following additional routes are planned to resume:

YYC-FRA
YUL-LIS
YYZ-BCN
YYZ-LIS
YYZ-CDG

Domestic, US and Latin America hasn’t been updated yet.

And just one week later all planned long haul resumptions in August have been cancelled other than YVR-PVG (with a stop in ICN).

thenoflyzone Jul 16, 2020 9:19 PM

Speaking of YUL-LIS, I hear TAP is going ahead with the launch of YUL on July 30. Bookings are strong apparently.

Also, Swiss resumed ZRH-YUL this past Tuesday, ans so did TK on Wednesday. Good to see more European carriers resume/launch service.

Dominion301 Jul 17, 2020 8:21 PM

Pascan are expanding in Eastern Quebec with the addition of YBC and YGP, meaning those airports will continue to have airline service. They will also start flying to YUL in addition to YHU.

As well:

Quote:

We are also working on finalizing interlining agreements with several national and international airlines in order to enhance our service offer. We are taking a dominant position in the skies of Quebec".
https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...819439259.html

thenoflyzone Jul 18, 2020 1:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 8984506)
Pascan are expanding in Eastern Quebec with the addition of YBC and YGP, meaning those airports will continue to have airline service. They will also start flying to YUL in addition to YHU.

As well:



https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...819439259.html

That's great news. They are better positioned to serve most of these markets.

thenoflyzone Jul 19, 2020 1:17 AM

Some interesting comments on load factors thus far for Transat's first 9 days of operations commencing July 23.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/view...?f=3&t=1447493

Quote:

This only includes Europe and South flights from July 23 to August 1st. There are a total of 65 flights being operated over these 9 days.

Average for all 65 flights operated:
YUL Avg Load Factor = 50.87%
YYZ Avg Load Factor = 42.57%
Total Avg Load Factor = 47.81%

Outbound stats for people departing Canada:
YUL Avg Outbound Load Factor = 59.18%
YYZ Avg Outbound Load Factor = 41.22%
Total Avg Outbound Load Factor = 52.51%

casper Jul 19, 2020 5:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8985472)
Some interesting comments on load factors thus far for Transat's first 9 days of operations commencing July 23.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/view...?f=3&t=1447493

With there business model you would expect for the first week that the aircraft go out near full and come back empty. So those numbers are not bad.

Dominion301 Jul 20, 2020 5:41 PM

One of Pascan's owners this the Treq co-op is a thing for dreamers:

Quote:

Le projet de coopérative aérienne une utopie?
Questionné sur la menace possible d’une coopérative aérienne sur les compagnies privées, le copropriétaire de Pascan Aviation, Yani Gagnon, indique que ce projet est plus proche du rêve que de la réalité.

Il y a deux choses que je ne peux pas faire : je ne peux pas empêcher les gens de présenter leurs propres projets et je ne peux pas empêcher les gens de rêver, a commenté Yani Gagnon.

Partir une compagnie d’aviation ce n’est pas comme ouvrir un dépanneur.

Yani Gagnon, copropriétaire de Pascan Aviation
Transport Canada ne va pas émettre un certificat d’exploitation à un startup, il faut arrêter de rêver, a indiqué M. Gagnon. Il précise que partir une compagnie d’aviation peut prendre plusieurs années.
He's right about that. You can‘t start up an airline in this day and age in a matter of weeks.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...-canada-pascan

nname Jul 22, 2020 10:46 PM

AC S21 Long-Haul route number changes:

Code:

AC70        YUL-CMN
AC72
AC74
AC76
AC78
AC80        YYZ-TLV
AC82        YUL-TLV
AC84
AC86
AC88
AC88        YYZ-LIM
AC90        YYZ-GRU
AC92        YYZ-SCL-EZE
AC94        YYZ-BOG
AC96        YUL-GRU
AC98        YUL-BOG

AC800        YYZ-DUB
AC802        YUL-DUB
AC804        YVR-DUB
AC806        YYZ-EDI
AC808        YYZ-MAN
AC810        YYZ-LIS
AC812        YUL-LIS
AC814        YUL-TLS
AC816        YHZ-LHR
AC818        YYT-LHR
AC820        YYZ-BCN
AC822        YUL-BCN
AC824        YYZ-MAD
AC826        YYZ-AMS
AC828        YYZ-CPH
AC830       
AC832        YUL-BRU
AC834        YYZ-BRU
AC836        YYZ-MUC
AC838        YVR-CDG
AC840        YYZ-FRA
AC842        YYZ-FRA
AC844        YUL-FRA
AC846        YVR-FRA
AC848        YYC-FRA
AC850        YYC-LHR
AC852        YYZ-LHR
AC854        YYZ-LHR
AC856        YYZ-LHR
AC858        YYZ-LHR
AC860        YVR-LHR
AC862
AC864        YUL-LHR
AC866       
AC868        YOW-LHR
AC870        YUL-CDG
AC872        YYZ-CDG
AC874        YUL-CDG
AC876        YUL-LYS
AC878        YUL-NCE
AC880        YYZ-ZRH
AC882        YVR-ZRH
AC884        YUL-GVA
AC886        YYZ-VIE
AC888
AC890        YYZ-FCO
AC892        YUL-FCO
AC894        YYZ-MXP
AC896        YYZ-ATH
AC898        YUL-ATH

I see they leave very few room for expansions... Seems like they does leave room for 2 additional LHR flights, from either YVR, YUL, or new Canadian city? AC830 and AC888 are still open for new destination (or additional Canadian cites to CPH, BRU, VIE, or FCO)

YVR-CDG seems out of place though...

ac888yow Jul 23, 2020 12:54 AM

This was to be LH's inaugural summer at YOW after AC handed off to them. It never started due to COVID. I wonder if AC might ever return to YOW-FRA if LH doesn't.

wave46 Jul 23, 2020 1:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 8989345)
AC S21 Long-Haul route number changes:


I see they leave very few room for expansions... Seems like they does leave room for 2 additional LHR flights, from either YVR, YUL, or new Canadian city? AC830 and AC888 are still open for new destination (or additional Canadian cites to CPH, BRU, VIE, or FCO)

YVR-CDG seems out of place though...


Here's a rough guide to AC's flight number meanings:

001-099 - Usually TPAC, or flights in/out of Asia. (HND, PVG, TLV)
1XX - Mainline transcontinental in/out of YYZ (YEG, YYC, YVR)
2XX - Mainline out of YVR (YYC, YEG, YWG), also includes YYZ-YWG rotations
3XX - Mainline transcontinental in/out of YUL (YEG, YYC, YWG, YVR)
4XX - Rapidair flights (YYZ-YUL/YOW) trips
5XX - Mainline West coast transborder (YVR-SFO, YYC-LAX) etc...
6XX - Any Mainline flight to or from maritimes (YYZ-YYT, YHZ-YUL)
7XX - Mainline East coast transborder (YYZ-LGA, SFO-YUL)
8XX - Mainline Trans Atlantic flights (YYZ-LHR, YVR-CDG)
9XX - Any Mainline flight to southern vacation destinations
1XXX - Usually extra Mainline flights they haven’t come up with a number for yet (YYZ-YXE, DEN)
2XXX - Extra sections, last two digits are same as last two digits as originally cancelled flights

I could see them using some 1XXX flight numbers for more Europe destinations.

Truenorth00 Jul 23, 2020 1:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8983556)
Speaking of YUL-LIS, I hear TAP is going ahead with the launch of YUL on July 30. Bookings are strong apparently.

Those 321LRs are looking more genius everyday....

wave46 Jul 23, 2020 1:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 (Post 8989509)
Those 321LRs are looking more genius everyday....

It's a more fuel-efficient 757-like plane with commonality to other Airbus A320 models. All the benefit and none of the pain of taking on a new model type.

Definitely Airbus has grabbed the niche that Boeing was hoping to exploit with their New Midsized Airplane. Once again, Boeing is left in the dust.

Any airline that goes hopping across the Atlantic from Western Europe to the East Coast of North America or vice-versa aiming for secondary destinations now has the plane to do it.

I could see it fit in AC's fleet - either YYZ/YUL to secondary European destinations or YHZ/YYT to primary European centres.

nname Jul 23, 2020 2:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 8989502)
I could see them using some 1XXX flight numbers for more Europe destinations.

Might not need... AC will need to trim some routes, as there are not enough plane to run all the service currently scheduled. For instance, the current schedule will require about 11-13 787-8 (which AC only have 8 of them):

YYZ - YVR, BOG, SFO (2), LAX (2), BRU
YUL - TLV, BOG, BRU
YVR - YYZ, BNE, KIX, EWR, ZRH
YYC - NRT
YOW - LHR

Dominion301 Jul 23, 2020 7:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 8989502)
Here's a rough guide to AC's flight number meanings:

001-099 - Usually TPAC, or flights in/out of Asia. (HND, PVG, TLV)
1XX - Mainline transcontinental in/out of YYZ (YEG, YYC, YVR)
2XX - Mainline out of YVR (YYC, YEG, YWG), also includes YYZ-YWG rotations
3XX - Mainline transcontinental in/out of YUL (YEG, YYC, YWG, YVR)
4XX - Rapidair flights (YYZ-YUL/YOW) trips
5XX - Mainline West coast transborder (YVR-SFO, YYC-LAX) etc...
6XX - Any Mainline flight to or from maritimes (YYZ-YYT, YHZ-YUL)
7XX - Mainline East coast transborder (YYZ-LGA, SFO-YUL)
8XX - Mainline Trans Atlantic flights (YYZ-LHR, YVR-CDG)
9XX - Any Mainline flight to southern vacation destinations
1XXX - Usually extra Mainline flights they haven’t come up with a number for yet (YYZ-YXE, DEN)
2XXX - Extra sections, last two digits are same as last two digits as originally cancelled flights

I could see them using some 1XXX flight numbers for more Europe destinations.

3xx are also YOW transcons and YYZ-YMM if it ever returns. I wonder whether Rouge will still use 15xx-19xx? They probably don’t need more than three hundreds series nowadays - 1 each for domestic, transborder and Caribbean. Actually, if KEF returns, that would be the one transatlantic route that would stay Rouge on a 320...or 319 if a few of those stick around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 8989544)
Might not need... AC will need to trim some routes, as there are not enough plane to run all the service currently scheduled. For instance, the current schedule will require about 11-13 787-8 (which AC only have 8 of them):

YYZ - YVR, BOG, SFO (2), LAX (2), BRU
YUL - TLV, BOG, BRU
YVR - YYZ, BNE, KIX, EWR, ZRH
YYC - NRT
YOW - LHR

Would not be surprised to see most 788 domestic, transborder and Atlantic get the 333. Also would not be surprised if some routes operate less-than-daily, thereby fitting more routes into the 8 frames.

At the rate (and direction) we’re going, summer 2021 will only be marginally better than summer 2020.

SaskScraper Jul 24, 2020 12:12 AM

Flair will be taking up some of the slack where Air Canada has left off this Summer with flights between Saskatchewan and Vancouver & Toronto four times a week starting in August.

https://i.imgur.com/7ZwvZVw.png

https://globalnews.ca/news/7210239/f...-saskatchewan/

Dominion301 Jul 24, 2020 1:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper (Post 8990464)
Flair will be taking up some of the slack where Air Canada has left off this Summer with flights between Saskatchewan and Vancouver & Toronto four times a week starting in August.

https://i.imgur.com/7ZwvZVw.png

https://globalnews.ca/news/7210239/f...-saskatchewan/

Flair are adding YMM, YXS and YYJ too apparently. They’re staying West it appears and abandoning their planned Eastern Canada expansion.


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