You're funny. Exactly who said the Argos would replace TFC, certainly wasn't me and you can't prove that, because I never said it. How could Argos dominate when their highest seating capacity configuration will always be 4-5k less than TFC?

I have proof that at his last state of the Union address commissioner Cohon said that Argo TV games had half of the viewers coming from Ontario. At that time ratings were over 600k, anyway it's no big deal to me because the Argos have the same owner as TFC and according to MLSE will put the same resources into the Argos as they've done for TFC for the last 10 years. That's gotta hurt doesn't it :)

I'm but a humble poster and not a university perfesser who has humbled himself to post at a mere Internet forum, I know not better.

Changing the topic a bit, but here in Vancouver/Lower Mainland with our heavily immigrant population overall, I never get why we get so much reporting from TSN/Sportsnet/Local news outlets on MLB. I've never met anyone who watches or cares and the Blue Jays aren't our team. I know a ton of people who follow the NBA obviously, but aren't Raptors fans necessarily. I get reporting about local teams - Canucks, Whitecaps, Lions, even the Vancouver Canadians and the Stealth, but I totally do not understand this general pandering to a Canadian team in mainstream media sport reporting.

There are probably more fans of the Portugal National Football Team and would want updates on how they are doing in Vancouver than the Blue Jays. The World Cup gets maybe five seconds in the sports update on local radio channels yet every (frankly, meaningless) Blue Jays game seems to have sound bites, coverage and even shows covering it. We probably have more people interested in the UFC, PGA tour, tennis... hell Formula 1 than MLB. Someone care to enlighten me where all of these Jays fans are because I don't see them around to be worth the amount of undue attention Vancouver media seems to give them.

Basically I'm just saying there is a lot going on in Sports for an immigrant-heavy population and we get peddled a team that isn't even local to us and I don't see much support or interest here in Vancouver, and that befuddles me. That and I'd like to hear less about them and more about other goings-on in my sports updates :)

My 2c.

The thing about Argos TV numbers is that they're usually near the lowest in the CFL. In 2016 they had the second lowest average viewership in the CFL (547K average/game, only ahead of Ottawa's 545K/game) and are, at least in the past five years or so, usually involved in the least-viewed CFL game of the season.

Here are the lowest rated CFL games in the regular season from 2009-2017, according to CFLDB (TSN only, no RDS):

2009: Montreal/Saskatchewan (294K)
2010: Calgary/Hamilton (454K)
2011: Hamilton/Calgary (356K)
2012: Calgary/Toronto (434K)
2013: Winnipeg/Hamilton (437K)
2014: Hamilton/Calgary (387K)
2015: Montreal/Toronto (246K)
2016: Toronto/Montreal (257K)
2017: BC/Toronto (364K)

Toronto also took part in the lowest rated games in 2001, 2002, 2004, and 2007. Data isn't available for 2003/2006/2008, but you get the picture.

Here are the highest rated regular season games, for comparison:

2009: BC/Saskatchewan (1.2M)
2010: Winnipeg/Saskatchewan (1.34M)
2011: Saskatchewan/Edmonton (1.00M)
2012: Saskatchewan/Toronto (1.06M)
2013: Saskatchewan/Winnipeg (1.34M)
2014: Winnipeg/Saskatchewan (1.14M)
2015: Winnipeg/Saskatchewan (1.12M)
2016: Ottawa/Saskatchewan (950K)
2017: Saskatchewan/Montreal (851K)

If we know Ontario was only 25% of the viewing audience for the Riders game in Week 1 i'd be genuinely curious to see what that makeup would be when the Argos play the Tiger-Cats or REDBLACKS. Hamilton/Toronto games typically have above-average numbers but Ottawa/Toronto games have below-average numbers. The RDS crowd is negligible for REDBLACKS games (between 20K-40K, roughly).

Ottawa's most-watched regular season game each year has been against Saskatchewan. In two of those years the least-watched REDBLACKS game has been against the Argonauts.

When the Blue Jays play in Seattle Jays fans frequently outnumber Mariners fans. Here's an opinion piece from last year written complaining about what they call an infestation of Jays fans during the series.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mariners-de...le/c-202416814

https://www.mlb.com/news/blue-jays-f...es/c-202417026

https://sports.vice.com/en_ca/articl...blue-jays-fans

If 15K-20K Jays fans are showing up in Seattle when the Jays play there i'm guessing there's a few Jays fans to pander to on local sports coverage. :shrug:

I think your "research" is as usual a little selective in it's approach, usually to show something CFL in a bad light and TFC in the glowing halo. We get it, you want the CFL dead.

You can't dispute your favourite source below.

https://i.imgur.com/wCLmKjo.png

Good editing. Stop with the TFC nonsense.

Argos/Ti-Cats Regular Season Games (all numbers courtesy of CFLDB), TSN:
2013, Week 16: 956K
2014, Week 10: 796K
2014, Week 16: 636K
2014, Week 18: 601K
2015, Week 6: 559K
2015, Week 11: 559K
2015, Week 12: 418K
2016, Week 1: 747K
2016, Week 11: 902K
2016, Week 12: 497K

Numbers aren't available for any missing games.

Why did you delete my explanation, my God you TFC people are so pathetic! Scared shitless by the little CFL.

I've sent you a PM explaining why your posts were removed. You've shown a complete inability to discuss topics in this thread in good faith. Anything further on this will be removed.

I provide numbers on the CFL, without mentioning anything else, and you call me a TFC fanboy.

I provide more numbers and you continue.

You call others trolls when you, yourself, are trolling this thread.

This thread is not for you to call others names without providing any actual content to the discussion in a constructive manner.

I don't want the CFL dead but you seem fixated on the idea that I want it that way. End of discussion. Provide something on topic or it'll be removed.

Bullshit, you manipulate numbers one way, but if I go to your MLS thread and do the same thing I'll get deleted. Man up, why can't you just admit you want the CFL dead without going through this insidious premise that everyone knows that you do here and elsewhere. Do you really think people are so stupid they can't see what you're doing.

What have I said that isn't the truth? You hold the hammer (ironically in the CFL thread) and don't have the guts to go toe to toe without wielding the hammer. I get it now and it's bigger than this site.

Really, then why is every post you make slanted that way. There's lots of good stories out there, have you ever posted one?

I cannot manipulate numbers I lift directly from CFLDB. You're free to look them up for yourself.

This is an internet discussion forum. Relax.

I'm posting TV numbers. I can't manipulate CFL TV numbers to show they're going down.

Here's an article from 2014: CFL audiences down but still strong
Here's an article from 2015: CFL audiences drop 15 per cent after tough season

I can't manipulate Grey Cup average audiences to show that they've been trending down since TSN's extension of their broadcast agreement. They just are.

I guess Zelkovich hates the CFL too. :shrug:

The CFL can post articles talking about year-over-year growth in weekly figures but they're never going to release data about double digit drops year over year. I'd rather analyze numbers than just copy-paste feel-good articles straight from a league's PR department.

I point out that attendance is down and TV ratings are down and i'm called an anti-CFL heathen. Fuck sakes. I was at the REDBLACKS home opener. :haha::haha::haha:

I don't feel the need to regurgitate PR communications pieces. Enough others provide positive CFL news here that it's covered fairly well.

Again, you've still yet to provide any constructive content to this thread and instead seem focused on me. This thread is not about me nor my opinion, and this thread also isn't for you to chastise others because you don't agree with them.

It's embarrassing for this forum that we can't go a page without some senseless argument about who feels what way or another and feeling the need to attack them instead of actually having a discussion.

If you don't agree with my content then post constructive content proving otherwise.

End.

Do you really want me to go to your MLS thread and post all their numbers that show how insignificant they are and how nobody outside the stadium gives a shit about them. I thought we had a little tacit agreement that you stay outta my backyard and I stay outta yours.

You don't wanna regurgitate PR pieces? You just don't want to post anything positive, what is so bad about manning up and telling the truth about your motives. Everybody knows it.

I met Lori Kane almost 30 years ago, a great lady and good Island girl. My God she's 53 years old and still hangin' on the LPGA Tour, fantastic.

Green with envy: LPGA stars grace Mosaic
Ryan Storrar cfl.ca

As former BC Lion LB Carl Weathers better known as Chubbs from Happy Gilmour says: Happy Gilmore It's all in the hips

Earlier today Brooke Henderson and Lorie Kane from the LPGA took some time before the CP Women’s Open to stop by Mosaic Stadium for some practice swings and to help improve the Roughriders form!

https://i.imgur.com/Jh2kwnk.jpg

Not bad to learn from Kane and Henderson. Kane, a member of the LPGA tour since 1996 & a 4-time winner. While Henderson is currently one of the top players on the LPGA circuit and the youngest player to ever win the LPGA KPMG Championship at just age 18.

Suffice to say, Zach Collaros, Duron Carter & Josh Bartel were a little outmatched.

JHikka, when one makes empirical claims (i.e., cites data) one must provide direct links to the sources of data on which those claims are based. It’s not just a common courtesy but a basic requirement of valid research. The audience must be able to verify that one’s empirical claims are not only founded on sources, but that the sources on which they are founded are credible.

Could you kindly provide links to sources of any future empirical claims in this thread? In the absence of direct links to sources, empirical claims carry little weight and an objective discussion of the “data” cannot really take place. Thank you.

All TV ratings were courtesy of CFLDB, which I highlighted in the post with the figures. On CFLDB there is also a dedicated sources page. It's a pretty tremendous resource.

stats.cfldb.ca
CFLDB Sources

In particular, CFLDB's TV Ratings stats are sourced from the following:

• @CFL_PR CFL PR Twitter Feed (current)
• @BillBriouxTV Bill Brioux's Twitter Feed (current)
• TV Feeds My Family (current)
• @CCtsn Chris Cuthbert's Twitter Feed (current)
• Chris Zelkovich's Eh Game (to 2016)
• Canadian Sports Media Blog (2012-2014)
• Toronto.com Remote Control Blog (2011)
• Chris Zelkovich's Sports Media Watch (Sept 2010 and prior)
• Jam! Showbiz on Canoe.ca (2000's)

There are formal links to those resources located within the CFLDB Sources page.

In particular, individual games will have, where available, attendance and TV ratings information. Clicking on the boxscore of a game will lead you to this information. The High/Low TV Rating information for the season was available via the season page (such as this).

I should note that TV data for 2017 is mostly missing and 2018 has yet to be added. As well, a number of games through the seasons have gone unreported. I'll likely go through the CFL Forums for last year's ratings data by week to see what those numbers yield.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Regarding future TV numbers, I look forward to seeing the URL of the page from which the numbers are taken.

To summarize the TV data for the 2018 CFL season so far, according to available reliable sources:

It's surprising to me that Edmonton/Winnipeg attracted the lowest viewership of all the week 1 games. It being on a Thursday played a role, for sure, but the Eskimos and Bombers are easily the 2nd/3rd most popular team in the league (debate which one is which) so I would have expected more of a TV audience.

The rain delay/storm would have impacted TV audience. Typically two of the better teams for ratings so a bit rough to have the game rained out for hours.

Lightning sparks epic delay of game for Bombers and Eskimos in Winnipeg

Is the CFL planning on releasing ESPN numbers as well? I'd like to know how much the game was watched in the States. Going on to Twitter, it seemed like there were a lot of people who tuned in to watch.

The two protracted rain delays definitely impacted viewership, and it's the same reason why about 90% of the stadium audience left by the time the 4th quarter rolled around... the game didn't end until after 1 am, on a weeknight no less. As I said before, I watched most of the first half from the stands, but I was at home, sleeping in bed when the second half started.

Chalk it up to 'shit happens'.

Week 2 numbers are softer, but not surprising considering the blow outs

OTT v SSK - 568,200
WPG v MTL - 401,100 (English only)
HAM v EDM - 495,900
CAL v TOR - 504,600

Average is 492,450 which is down 2% from Week 2 last year

I was thinking that, with the numbers posted on here for TSN and the 150,00-250,000 viewers that typically watch Alouettes games on RDS, it's likely that most weeks the most-watched CFL game in the country is any one that involves Montreal.

Tough to say. RDS numbers are so infrequently available. Here are RDS numbers for 2016 Alouettes games as an example:

Week 4: 201K
Week 6: 180K
Week 10: 166K
Week 12: 95K
Week 19: 74K

[Source]

It's safe to assume RDS numbers for Montreal games float between 100K-200K. If Montreal is playing Winnipeg/Saskatchewan/Edmonton odds are it's the most watched game of the week. If they're playing Calgary/BC or any of the East teams it's less likely. Depends on how the schedule shakes down for that week.

Do CFL viewership numbers from the USA and other countries get published?

I've seen articles where figures between 150,000 and 200,000 have been quoted.

That seems tiny given the population of the U.S. but the sports broadcasting marketplace down there is extremely fragmented down there and aside from the real biggies a whole lot of domestic stuff that has a high degree of mainstream popularity gets somewhere in the same ballpark in terms of numbers.

I've seen them sporadically but never on a regular basis. It would be interesting to see... I don't necessarily think there is any kind of widespread fan base growing there, but given that the games are broadcast regularly on ESPN2 and other such channels there is a much more prominent platform for the CFL in the US these days.

It wasn't long ago that CFL games were only carried in the US by obscure pseudo-networks like America One, which held the rights for quite a few years.

Very infrequently.

Here are some numbers from last season.

Argos set to give away 5,000 ‘Toronto’ shirts
Carlos Verde The Snap cfl.ca July 7, 2018

The Toronto Argonauts are continuing to go all-out for fans in 2018.

First, there was the giveaway of thousands of replica Grey Cup rings at the home opener.

Now, the team is offering sweet Toronto-themed t-shirts to the first 5,000 people to the Shipyard prior to Saturday’s game against Edmonton.

https://i.imgur.com/qIR0c9I.jpg

“Sweet”

It's like we used to say working in the bars. It's a GFS. Guaranteed Fight Starter :)

MLSE management thought up and is promoting this strategy.

:previous:

Nothing like a Toronto centric view of the universe......... :rolleyes:

That's the point, they hoping the ROC hates it and Argo/Toronto fans will rub it in.

Ya I had heard the marketing department was gonna come out with something like this.
They should also have an outline of the GTA with Canada written inside of it.

I was positive it was entirely unintentional and they just didn't realize there could be anything wrong with it haha. Actually relieved it's intentionally provocative.

MLSE has hit some marketing homeruns one the years with the 'We The North' (Raptors), and 'Bloody Big Deal' (TFC).

I live in Toronto and have never seen that MLS marketing campaign. And why are they trying to sound British? Did they sign someone from there?

It's the dominant marketing angle in soccer right now, is it not? "FC" should be the first clue.

It's the easiest marketing angle for the sport in North America. A ton of people watch the Premier League on a weekly basis but only a fraction of them tune in to MLS.

This is beside the fact that a lot of people in soccer development as a whole in North America have British backgrounds.

And that is soccer's in Canada's blessing and curse.

I tuned into TSN's Games on Demand to watch Eng/Swe, only I think the second WC Game I've watched this year. All of the TSN commentators had British accents, I am sure others will disagree but to me that is a big turnoff. It might be different if any of them had some sort of greater cachet than a "Canadian" could have in that position, but they don't.

After all these years soccer still seems to be the "immigrant" game which is something (with the high younger participation rates) I though it would outgrow (my opinion only)

MLS faces the same monoliths as does the CFL. They each have their following of fans but are missing a much larger group of football/soccer "fans". I put fans in quotes because a real fan would appreciate the sport at all levels just not the most prestigious one. Most American football fans like football at all levels, high school, college, pro.

Back to a previous point, I wonder why I have had no interest in the WC this year. Lots of upsets which should make it more exciting, I just haven't gotten around to watching anything. Is this a popular or quiet WC, or is it just me who doesn't have any interest. I'm just not seeing too much at the forums I've been frequenting.

Are the commentators with those accents actually working for TSN, or is it simply that TSN bought the feed from a British network and is simulcasting it?

The RDS crew is made up of a Québécois lady (the only female play-by-play person doing World Cup games anywhere AFAIK) alongside a colour commentator guy who is a Frenchman who's lived in Montreal for decades. He still has his accent so when you're watching a game you hear both accents from either side of the Atlantic mixed together.

The in-studio team on RDS is often a mix of accents, mostly Québécois but one of the commentators this year has a pretty strong anglo accent in French.

For many years I longed for RDS to take the feed from a French network for at least the play-by-play of World Cup games, in the hopes of getting better announcers. But over time the RDS duo of Claudine Douville and Jean Gounelle have grown on me. They're OK.

RDS and TVA Sports also generally use their own announcers for Formula 1 auto racing, Tour de France cycling, etc.

It's quite rare for them to take the French networks' sound feed.

I meant the four man TSN studio crew

The TSN studio crew based in Toronto *all* have British accents?

And the actual game coverage I assume is a feed from a British network?

I mentioned a while back on another thread that the US network (ABC?) showing F1 races simply used the Sky Sport feed from the UK with British announcers.

I was surprised as US networks don't usually do that, and I'd assume their audiences are even slightly more sensitive about British accents than Canadian ones.

Wileman, Jack, Caldwell, Dunfield kinda wavers in his accent. Am I missing somebody, because I don't remember seeing Dunfield but think there is someone else.

Wileman is English, Jack is as well. Caldwell is Scottish.

Dunfield is Canadian but as mentioned his accent goes in and out.

I looked up this Dunfield guy. He moved to the UK as a teen to play soccer but he still sounds pretty Canadian in the videos I've watched.

Maybe he gets an automatic form of accent contamination from being around the British guys on the set with him. I know my accent can vary slightly depend on who I am surrounded by.

Was Carl Robinson sitting in on one of these?

That Kristian Jack sounds like he has a mixed accent. As if he moved from the UK to Canada as a teen or young adult and inherited both accents.

Maybe - I've been out of the country for a good bit of the tournament so haven't seen much of the coverage.

I know MLS had a slight break in their schedule - so he may have been around for the early round robin games

They can give away all the Toronto centric crap they can think of at games, it's not going to help this failing league in Toronto. Last years average home game attendance for the Argo's was a pathetic 51.53%, even with all the free crap.

Interested in all this "free crap" they gave away last season - what was it? :rolleyes: