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mr.x Jul 4, 2008 11:45 PM

Canadian Airport Thread
 
A closer look at airport expansion across Canada

Canwest News Service
Published: Friday, July 04, 2008

More than $7 billion worth up upgrades are planned at major airports across Canada so they can handle millions of extra passengers. Separate factboxes of spending plans and capacity targets for 13 cities:



Victoria International Airport

2015 passengers: 1,710,825

Expansion: $133 million through 2025 to extend main runway, aprons and taxiways, new loading bridges, terminal and customs facility expansion, increased parking and improving access to airport from highway.

Airport Improvement Fee: $10 for departing passengers

Neat feature: Illarion Gallant's "Bouquet of Memories" art installation
outside departures terminal

Major complaint: Limited direct flights to/from Victoria major destinations



Vancouver International Airport

2015 passengers: 20,315,978

Expansion: $1.5-billion program includes international terminal expansion and upgrades, new building linking domestic and international terminals and new Canada Line rapid transit service

Airport Improvement Fee: $5 for passengers travelling within B.C. and Yukon, $15 for all other destinations

Neat features: Bill Reid's iconic sculpture - The Spirit of Haida Gwai, The Jade Canoe - and a 114,000-litre saltwater aquarium featuring local marine life

Major complaint: Long customs lineups



Calgary International Airport

2015 passengers: 15,475,759

Expansion: $3 billion by 2018 - includes international transborder concourse, which will add 20 new gates and associated aircraft apron; expansions to the transborder baggage facility and Canadian Inspection Services area; more surface parking and 2,000-stall addition to car parkade; fourth runway, 4,267 metres

Airport Improvement Fee: $20 for all departing non-connecting passengers

Neat features: White Hat volunteers. Space Port Educational Facility. 30-minute free parking

Major complaint: Congestion at U.S. transborder concourse




Edmonton International Airport

2015 passengers: 7,981,076

Expansion: $1.1 billion by 2012 for new passenger concourse, 13 new airplane gates for total of 30, more parking

Airport Improvement Fee: $15 for departing passengers

Neat feature: Jack Shadbolt's historic Bush Pilot in Northern Sky mural

Major complaint: $48 taxi fare to downtown



Saskatoon John G. Diefenbaker International Airport

2015 Passengers: 1,443,446

Expansion: $70 million between 2009 and 2018 for runway reconstruction, terminal renovations and expansion

Airport Improvement Fee: $10 for departing passengers

Neat Feature: Split-level terminal design to improve efficiency and passenger flow

Major Complaint: Shortage of taxis



Regina International Airport

2015 passengers: 1,255,957

Expansion: $100 million over the next 20 years

Airport Improvement Fee: $15 for departing passengers (increased from $10 in April 2007)

Neat feature: Circular skylight-sundial in arrivals lobby.

Major complaints: Shortage of taxis at peak periods, inability to get more international flights due to Canada Border Services Agency staffing policies



James Richardson International Airport (Winnipeg)

2015 passengers: 3,778,035

Expansion: $585 million, 51,000-square-metre terminal under construction. To open in 2010 with boarding/departure gates increasing from nine to 15

Airport Improvement Fee: Increased from $15 to $20 for departing passengers on Jan. 1, 2008

Neat Feature:
$6.3-million Greyhound bus terminal, $100 million Canada Post mail sorting plant and a proposed $20-million, seven-storey hotel

Major complaint: Old terminal won't be preservedJames Richardson International Airport (formerly Winnipeg International Airport)



Windsor Airport

2007 passengers: 245,000

Projected growth:
400,000 passengers by 2018

Expansion: $600,000 to add pre-boarding area including cafe, business lounge, children's play area.

Airport Improvement Fee: None

Neat feature: Mural of Windsor's Willistead Manor, designed by architect Albert Kahn for Henry Chandler Walker

Major complaint:
Not enough direct-flight options



Toronto Pearson International Airport

2015 passengers: 41,036,847

Expansion: Airport development program $4.4 billion, 10-year construction plan completed in 2007 - new terminal one, expanded terminal three, new runway and new firehalls

Airport Improvement Fee:
$20 for departing passengers, $8 for connecting passengers

Neat feature: Artwork by Ingo Maurer - giant water tank with small moving cubes

Major complaint: Not enough taxis, especially in poor weather



Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport

2015 passengers: 4,656,360

Expansion: Phase II by late 2008, budgeted at $111 million, includes addition to parking garage, construction of major addition to new passenger terminal building. Phase III sometime after 2017

Airport Improvement Fee: $15 for departing passengers

Neat feature:
Three-level water feature that represents the various
waterways in Ottawa

Major complaint: Lack of large round analogue two-handed clocks



Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport (Montreal)

2014 passengers: 15,517,382 pax

Expansion: $1.5 billion spent since 2000 in relocations of service hangars and reconfiguration of road network, construction of new transborder departures hall to be completed in 2009, new Marriott hotel to open in fall of 2008

Airport Improvement Fee: $20 plus GST for departing passengers

Neat feature: Montreal's only passenger airport

Major complaint: Noisy night flights



Halifax Stanfield International Airport

2015 passengers: 3,702,705

Expansion: Midway through 10-year, $97.5-million capital improvement plan for new terminal facilities, restored runways, parking and passenger amenities.

Airport Improvement Fee: $10 for departing passengers

Neat Feature: International arrivals lounge features life-size model of Alexander Graham Bell's Silver Dart bi-plane.

Major complaint: Lack of parking (airport is constructing 2,300-space parkade)



St. John's International Airport

2015 passengers: 1,536,000

Expansion: Five-year, $65-million capital program beginning spring 2009. To include terminal building expansion, new and renovated operations buildings, rehabilitation and resurfacing of secondary runway, and fleet replacement

Airport Improvement Fee: $15 for departing passengers

Neat feature: Memorial display for service people stationed or passed through airport during WWII

Major complaints:
Poor road signage for airport turnoff; lack of rental cars in peak seasons


Additional Airports

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325 (Post 7350850)
1. Toronto Pearson International Airport - 41,036,847 (2015)
2. Vancouver International Airport - 20,315,978 (2015)
3. Calgary International Airport - 15,475,759 (2015)
4. Montreal-Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport - 15,517,382 (2015)
5. Edmonton International Airport - 7,981,076 (2015)
6. Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport - 4,656,360 (2015)
7. Winnipeg James Armstrong Richardson International Airport - 3,778,035 (2015)
8. Halifax Stanfield International Airport - 3,702,705 (2015)
9. Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport - 2,400,000 (2014)
10. Victoria International Airport - 1,710,825 (2015)
11. Kelowna International Airport - 1,593,606 (2015)
12. Quebec City Jean Lesage International Airport - 1,584,713 (2015)
13. St. John's International Airport - 1,536,000 (2015) - est
14. Saskatoon John G. Diefenbaker International Airport - 1,443,446 (2015)
15. Regina International Airport - 1,255,957 (2015)
16. Fort McMurray International Airport - 1,099,663 (2015).


Intercontinental Summer Destinations - 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.S MTL (Post 7347449)


mr.x Jul 4, 2008 11:57 PM

Vancouver International Airport Expansion


Originally posted by en2:


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Pictures by Tafryn of the newly built Link Building (connects the domestic and international terminals with the new Canada Line):

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The new Canada Line stations at the airport (YVR Airport, Sea Island Centre, Templeton):


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Ayreonaut Jul 5, 2008 12:32 AM

I lol'd at the major complaint for Ottawa. :haha:

Doug Jul 5, 2008 12:32 AM

Those growth forecasts are likely on the optimistic side given the rise in fuel prices.

mylesmalley Jul 5, 2008 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug (Post 3654064)
Those growth forecasts are likely on the optimistic side given the rise in fuel prices.

I'd say Calgary seems awfully high. Even at the phenomenal rate of growth they've got right now, would that really justify capacity similar to what Toronto has today?

northwest2k Jul 5, 2008 12:49 AM

42 mill for Pearson by 2015 thats awesome

And YVR needs to use some of that budget to improve the domestic section of the airport. B concourse looks awful.

vid Jul 5, 2008 12:53 AM

Haha, Thunder Bay International has large round analogue two handed clocks, so no problems on that front!

We get 600,000 passengers per year but can't handle large planes so we need tonnes of flights to places to handle demand. We also lack direct flights to places like Calgary and Vancouver which people sometimes complain about. We now have direct flights to Ottawa and Montreal via Jazz but they're bitching about fuel prices and will probably cut them not even three months after they started. :rolleyes:

mr.x Jul 5, 2008 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northwest2k (Post 3654079)
42 for Pearson by 2015 thats awesome

And YVR needs to use some of that budget to improve the domestic section of the airport. B concourse looks awful.

I would love to see the airport demolish the domestic terminal entirely and build a new domestic terminal to the same standard as the international terminal.....I find domestic to be horribly crowded, it lacks space to move around. This likely won't happen anytime soon, but over the next few decades i think it's possible.

And with the international check-in concourse, they need to push back the check-in booths at least 10-metres....there's hardly any space to move through the terminal when there are long lineups for check-in.

It would also be great if we could somehow expand the arrivals space in both the domestic and especially international terminals.....and the international customs hall needs more booths.

northwest2k Jul 5, 2008 1:11 AM

YVR has made it quite clear that international flights (mainly asia) and the international terminal are the first priority. It's pretty shameful. domestic passengers can go to hell for all they care

mersar Jul 5, 2008 1:20 AM

Heres a map of Calgary International after the expansion is done:

http://www.calgaryairport.com/fts/getFile.cfm?FID=10802

Pretty much everything on the east side is new (the darker colored runways and apron), the new parallel runway will be the longest runway in Canada once its ready. Construction is supposed to be starting relatively soon, the initial road closures are supposed to start next year according to some reports (one of the main access roads to the airport runs where the runway will go, so it must be removed)

DAVEinEDMONTON Jul 5, 2008 2:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mylesmalley (Post 3654073)
I'd say Calgary seems awfully high. Even at the phenomenal rate of growth they've got right now, would that really justify capacity similar to what Toronto has today?

What you don't realize is that YYC management has secretly hired lobbyists to 1) convince Edmonton city council to reopen the municipal airport in downtown Edmonton to regular Alberta only passenger traffic, 2) convince airlines to restrict future flights out of the Edmonton International to Alberta only destinations thus expanding their destinations and flights, and 3) convince the Alberta government to build a high speed rail-link from downtown Edmonton to downtown Calgary that by-passes the Edmonton International airport and only stops at the Calgary International Airport. The result would turn Edmonton into a spoke in the Calgary airport hub system.

And that is the only way in hell that Calgary will ever reach a projected 30,000,000 passengers by 2030...:haha: :haha: :haha:

Greco Roman Jul 5, 2008 2:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVEinEDMONTON (Post 3654228)
What you don't realize is that YYC management has secretly hired lobbyists to 1) convince Edmonton city council to reopen the municipal airport in downtown Edmonton to regular Alberta only passenger traffic, 2) convince airlines to restrict future flights out of the Edmonton International to Alberta only destinations thus expanding their destinations and flights, and 3) convince the Alberta government to build a high speed rail-link from downtown Edmonton to downtown Calgary that by-passes the Edmonton International airport and only stops at the Calgary International Airport. The result would turn Edmonton into a spoke in the Calgary airport hub system.

Seriously? That is pitiful.

Ayreonaut Jul 5, 2008 3:28 AM

I highly doubt he's serious.

DAVEinEDMONTON Jul 5, 2008 3:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greco Roman (Post 3654240)
Seriously? That is pitiful.

Seriously...yes and no...it was half in jest my friend...but you cannot discount the competative nature of the airports across this country. For example, do you think that Toronto does not strategically think that it will retain its reign as the hub for the majority of international flights and act as the major international hub to all western Canadian passengers and eastern Canadian passengers outside of Montreal through Pearson International? How do you think they would they get that 42,000,000 passenger target in 5 years, a 33% increase? Montreal has a nice modest growth rate. It doesn't look like they are competing with Toronto. However, I suspect Toronto is counting on flights consolidating through Pearson to the detriment of Ottawa, Montreal and other major centers. There is only so many airline passengers out there and direct flights, for example, out of Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg only serve to diminish Toronto's hub status. They built that big airport and they now have to make sure it gets used to pay off the billions in debt.

When I look at the passenger growth stats for all the airports it seems obvious that there are potentially different strategic growth plans for all airports in Canada...it would interesting to find out exactly how some of the airports with huge growth targets plan to achieve their passenger growth targets.

1ajs Jul 5, 2008 3:43 AM

JAR (winnipeg)
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/7176/aarx4.jpg

james2010.ca
http://www.james2010.ca/files/Gallery/image_13.jpg

vid Jul 5, 2008 3:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAVEinEDMONTON (Post 3654281)
Seriously...yes and no...it was half in jest my friend...but you cannot discount the competative nature of the airports across this country. For example, do you think that Toronto does not strategically think that it will retain its reign as the hub for the majority of international flights and act as the major international hub to all western Canadian passengers and eastern Canadian passengers outside of Montreal through Pearson International? How do you think they would they get that 42,000,000 passenger target in 5 years, a 33% increase? Montreal has a nice modest growth rate. It doesn't look like they are competing with Toronto. However, I suspect Toronto is counting on flights consolidating through Pearson to the detriment of Ottawa, Montreal and other major centers. There is only so many airline passengers out there and direct flights, for example, out of Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg only serve to diminish Toronto's hub status. They built that big airport and they now have to make sure it gets used to pay off the billions in debt.

When I look at the passenger growth stats for all the airports it seems obvious that there are potentially different strategic growth plans for all airports in Canada...it would interesting to find out exactly how some of the airports with huge growth targets plan to achieve their passenger growth targets.

Speaking of Toronto's Airport, Hamilton is getting more overseas flights now too. It's advertising itself as a discount airport or something to that effect.

DAVEinEDMONTON Jul 5, 2008 3:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid (Post 3654289)
Speaking of Toronto's Airport, Hamilton is getting more overseas flights now too. It's advertising itself as a discount airport or something to that effect.

Yes...way to go Hamilton!!! I think it is a cost factor for the discount airlines not to use YYZ due to Pearson having some of the highest operating charges in the world. Interesting though how airlines like "flyglobespan.com" out of (I think) Scotland shows Toronto as a Canadian destination with (YHM) in bracklets...still good to see Hamilton get the overseas flights...:tup:

SteelTown Jul 5, 2008 4:03 AM

Citi financial just recently (world's largest bank) took over 50% of Hamilton Airport and the other 50% is YVR. This September Hamilton Airport staffs will make a presentation to request something like $40 million to expand the Airport.

Currently there's $3 million being spent to double the size of the departure lounge. Last year YHM completed doubling the size of the International terminal.

mr.x Jul 5, 2008 4:08 AM

A bit old:


http://www.movekelownaforward.com/co.../YLWFuture.jpg
From the Kelowna Daily Courier:

Wednesday, July 12, 2006

$150 million needed for Kelowna airport plans
By J.P. SQUIRE
Wednesday, July 12, 2006, 12:01 AM

Passenger volumes at Kelowna International Airport are expected to double and perhaps even triple to three million a year in the next 20 years.

But getting to that level will require an investment of $150 million to nearly double the size of the terminal, build a four-level parkade with 2,400 stalls, two runway extensions to 10,000 feet and a new taxiway the entire length of the runway.

A master plan approved by city council Monday also calls for a future overpass over the CN Rail tracks and a so-called diamond or full interchange at Highway 97.

The future could also see the integration of the rail line with airport operations. Other cities are building rail connections to their airports for light rail transit systems, noted Mayor Sharon Shepherd, while Kelowna already has a rail line between the highway and terminal.

The master plan called for the current 7,300-foot runway to be extended to 9,000 feet by 2008 and to 10,000 feet by 2025. A single runway would be enough to accommodate the 133,000 aircraft movements expected in 2025.

A runway extension to the south would require the acquisition of an addition 15 hectares of land: seven in the regional district and eight in the city. The runway extension will allow fully loaded aircraft with wingspans up to 65 metres, including the Airbus 330 and Boeing 787.

The Airbus has a range of 4,850 nautical miles and the Boeing 787 a range of 7,000 nautical miles to reach destinations such as Europe and Australia.

The peak number of passengers in the terminal building will increase from the current 380-480 passengers in one hour to 680 by 2015 and to 900 by 2025, according to the report. So the terminal will nearly double to 19,000 square metres by expanding to the southwest, where the long-term parking lot is now located.

The impact of the airport was 1,835 jobs and $310 million in economic output in 2005, which is expected to increase to 3,104 jobs and more than $525 million in economic activity by 2015.

At Monday’s meeting, councillors approved the latest expansion that will provide a parking space for another large aircraft.

A $2.4-million contract to Ansell Construction will also add 381 new parking stalls to the long-term parking lot and pave the 300 gravel stalls built in 2005. That will result in a total of 2,202 public parking stalls at the airport.

Roger Sellick told council he used to think he was the general manager of an airport, but with all the changes in recent years, he joked he now thinks of himself as “the manager of a construction site where airplanes land.”

© Wednesday, July 12, 2006 Copyright KelownaDailyCourier.ca





this is incredible.....and wow, a rail line to the airport? O_O'''' way to go Kelowna!

vid Jul 5, 2008 4:11 AM

Thunder Bay has a rail line near the airport from both CN and CP, and CN's main train yard is just west of the airport. If the CN line running through the city ever gets decommissioned, we'd just have to build a rail overpass to the airport to have a rail transit connection to it from both downtowns.

DAVEinEDMONTON Jul 5, 2008 4:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northwest2k (Post 3654115)
YVR has made it quite clear that international flights (mainly asia) and the international terminal are the first priority. It's pretty shameful. domestic passengers can go to hell for all they care

YVR has the nicest airport IMO despite the apparent shortcomings in the domestic side of the terminal...one nice feature that was not listed on the first post is the elaborate historical displays located in the upper gangway of the international terminal. The displays form part of the walkway as you enter the airport off the planes and head to customs and passport control. The only problem is that I am not sure that a lot of people are willing to stop and spend huge amounts of time reading about BC's history after getting off a long international flight. After coming back from San Francisco two weeks ago, my only thought was of getting through customs as fast as possible and heading home...

YXX - Abbotsford - anyone have any details of their expansion plans? I hav eseen pictures of a new treminal on the walls of the airport but I do not have any details. I use that airport at least once a month and it has to be the nicest for short turnaround times...love being able to get to the airport 30 minutes before the flight knowing you will not have any hassles checking in or at the gate.

YWG - nice pictures of the new JAR terminal but I am not sure about those bubble sky lights...looks very retro 60's to me...

YEG - Edmonton - missing details of a new airport hotel going up which is independent of the 1.1 billion airport expansion

eemy Jul 5, 2008 2:07 PM

Interesting article from the Vancouver Sun related to this:

Quote:

Flying in the face of industry
What's driving the demand for airport expansions across Canada?
Gordon Isfeld and Helen Morris, Canwest News Service
Published: Friday, July 04, 2008

These are turbulent times for air travel.

Profits at the major carriers are being threatened by soaring fuel prices and passengers are being hit by higher fares and surcharges to cover those additional costs.

At the same time, there's a growing awareness - among consumers and corporate leaders - of the environmental impact of carbon emissions and concerns over how to reduce them.
Larry Berg, president and CEO of the Vancouver International Airport Authority, presided in 2007 over the opening of YVR's international terminal expansion that featured a stream running between leafy banks, a 114,000-litre aquarium and a sculpture over the aquarium titled Orca Chief and the Kelp Forest.View Larger Image View Larger Image
Larry Berg, president and CEO of the Vancouver International Airport Authority, presided in 2007 over the opening of YVR's international terminal expansion that featured a stream running between leafy banks, a 114,000-litre aquarium and a sculpture over the aquarium titled Orca Chief and the Kelp Forest.

But take a closer look - on the ground - and you'll see signs of business as usual, and a lot more, as airports across Canada undergo major expansion and improvements.

So, what's driving this apparent demand, who's footing the bills and are growth projections for the industry realistic or driven by "edifice complex," as some critics argue?

Over the next dozen or so years, more than $7 billion will be plowed into airport infrastructure projects - from adding and upgrading amenities, to wholesale reconstruction.

Most of the money for these projects is coming from airport improvement fees collected from passengers and the issuance of bonds by individual airport authorities.

Canadian airports have already invested in excess of $9.5 billion in infrastructure improvements over the past 15 years, according to the Canadian Airports Council (CAC), which represents about 180 airports.

Much of the planning and budgeting for this expansion was done before the burst of the technology bubble and the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in the United States.

Since then, the airline industry has been struggling to regain the six per cent annual growth it had enjoyed for the previous quarter of a century, says Joseph D'Cruz, professor of strategic management at the University of Toronto's Rotman School of Business.

"So, we've lost seven or eight years of growth," he says.

Record-high oil prices only steepened the industry's climb back to recovery. Major airlines have hiked fuel surcharges and added baggage fees to cushion the increased costs. Others have also slashed jobs and services. Last month, Air Canada - the country's largest airline - announced 2,000 staff cuts and a seven-per-cent reduction in its routes, followed this week with a decision by its regional carrier Jazz to eliminate 270 positions and trim its flights by five per cent.

"We're entering a stage where environmental consciousness [about carbon-emitting airplanes] and high prices will deter air travel," says D'Cruz.

All this as another wave of airport expansion is underway.

"The difficulty is that the airlines are on a different time horizon than the airports," says Paul Dempsey, director of the Institute of Air and Space Law at McGill University.

"Airport infrastructure has to be planned and financed years ahead of time in order to meet the capacity demands of the future," he said. "The airlines are faced with immediate problems of profitability and for them, at the moment, this is not the time to expand. The difficulty is that building a terminal or building a runway or adding a runway requires a much longer time horizon."

This dichotomy between supply and demand is not lost on some passengers. At the Winnipeg International Airport, for example, it was not entirely certain why a new terminal was being built in the first place.

"I'm through the airport about six times a year and it never seems to be busy compared to the Toronto airport," said Paul Hurley, a Toronto software sales executive. "I don't really see the demand for a new terminal."

But demand is indeed there, according to the airports, with record passenger levels being recorded across the country.

Daniel-Robert Gooch, the CAC's communications director, says passenger numbers have now "passed the pre-2001 level" and airports are well-positioned to handle the increase in traffic. "We knew this was coming so airports had to invest in their infrastructure programs," he says, adding that between 1991 and 2006 passenger levels have risen by 50 per cent.

To fund these expansion projects, most airport operators have imposed fees on passengers and raised money in the bond markets - this, says D'Cruz, with the "implicit guarantee" of governments because of the operators' status as privatized not-for-profit or "corporatized" entities. As a result, he says, they have "an excessive amount of debt" on their books.

"It's clear that the corporatization of the Canadian airports has led to an exorbitant amount of gold plating," says Dempsey. "They are increasingly beautiful but they are increasingly expensive."

"Building beautiful terminal facilities with lots of stone and waterfalls may facilitate the pleasure of the experience of the people who walk through the airport but it's a cost that has to be incurred ultimately by the airlines and their passengers."

Adds D'Cruz: "This is called the edifice complex."

The flip side, according to the CAC, is that airport authorities are much more than money collectors with big ambitions - they also contribute to the local economies, especially in the area of tourism, which is the main engine that is expected to power growth in the industry.

The CAC says airports also give, not just take - together paying nearly $300 million a year to the federal government in airport rent.
Personally, in the case of the Ottawa Airport, expansion was immediately necessary thanks to years of neglect on the part of Transport Canada (I suspect this was the case of pretty much every airport authority in Canada when they took their airport over). The second expansion was justified on the costs of operating the old terminal. Now they have a nicer airport, with lower annual costs.

1ajs Jul 5, 2008 4:00 PM

winnipeg needs it our curent terminal is max out for compacity but the building still has life left in it shame they couldn't find a new use for it

LotusLand Jul 5, 2008 7:49 PM

YVR is probably the best airport in the country. Having travelled to T dot many times, I must say I found Pearson Int'l to be disappointing. I expected a lot more from the largest airport in Canada. Calgary's is coming along nicely as well. Those projections seem to be on the high side though :haha:

eemy Jul 5, 2008 8:54 PM

I suspect the numbers for Calgary are not anticipated traffic, but the amount of traffic it could handle with the additional runway.

brentwood Jul 5, 2008 11:12 PM

Exactly...finally jeremy brings some sense to the Calgary conspiracy believers. All the other airports listed seem to show projected passenger numbers. The Calgary data for some reason shows capacity numbers. Two very different things. It only makes sense to build infrastruture in excess of demand, you would think.

It does not take a math whiz to figure out that with 13M passengers with the current setup that a new runway that does not conflict with the current one(s) would effectively double capacity. Of course, you would likely need a few more gates as well. Note I said capacity, not necessarily passenger numbers.

mr.x Jul 6, 2008 12:12 AM

^ that's probably it. I believe the new Beijing airport has a capacity of 100 million passengers annually, but it likely won't meet that ever.

Ayreonaut Jul 6, 2008 12:17 AM

Yet they're planning another one already. :sly:

mr.x Jul 6, 2008 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayreonaut (Post 3655336)
Yet they're planning another one already. :sly:

And yet it cost them just $3.5-billion.....which is basically the entire budget for Toronto's new terminal.

Something like what Beijing built here in Canada would probably cost at least $20-billion.

Ayreonaut Jul 6, 2008 12:41 AM

Probably has much to do with labour costs though.

Doug Jul 6, 2008 2:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayreonaut (Post 3655365)
Probably has much to do with labour costs though.

Is that present or future dollars? $3.5B in 2018 or 2030 dollars is much less than the same amount today or the $4.5B Toronto spent earlier this decade.

KrisYYC Jul 6, 2008 7:01 AM

And with their newest expansion YVR once again totally outclasses the rest of Canada's airports. Kudos

SpongeG Jul 6, 2008 9:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayreonaut (Post 3654063)
I lol'd at the major complaint for Ottawa. :haha:

so did I :haha: :cheers:

Policy Wonk Jul 6, 2008 11:47 PM

You are looking at pictures of a looming scandal. The private airport authorities across Canada are all loading themselves down with debt and working on the assumption they would be able to recoup the expense through user fees based on traffic estimates that were unreasonable before oil prices began to spiral out of control.

When the airport authorities begin to go bankrupt Ottawa will be forced to bail them out. And for all the money that is being spent little of it is going to improved aviation infrastrucutre, such as improved runway lighting or runway barriers it is all going to making airports look like disneyland.

vanman Jul 7, 2008 6:26 PM

I highly doubt it.

Doug Jul 7, 2008 6:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk (Post 3656555)
You are looking at pictures of a looming scandal. The private airport authorities across Canada are all loading themselves down with debt and working on the assumption they would be able to recoup the expense through user fees based on traffic estimates that were unreasonable before oil prices began to spiral out of control.

When the airport authorities begin to go bankrupt Ottawa will be forced to bail them out. And for all the money that is being spent little of it is going to improved aviation infrastrucutre, such as improved runway lighting or runway barriers it is all going to making airports look like disneyland.

Absolutely. Ottawa won't necessarily need to bail them out though. Existing bondholders will get a haircut. I wonder if those bonds are widely held. If the debt is concentrated amongst say pension funds, watch out.

sync Jul 7, 2008 7:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrisYYC (Post 3655742)
And with their newest expansion YVR once again totally outclasses the rest of Canada's airports. Kudos

yup.

YVR is just fantastic.

Coldrsx Jul 7, 2008 8:22 PM

^uh...ever flown domestically out of the sw/s wing?

Nicko999 Jul 7, 2008 8:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.x2 (Post 3655324)
^ that's probably it. I believe the new Beijing airport has a capacity of 100 million passengers annually, but it likely won't meet that ever.

You forgot the new Dubai airport(under construction) that will be finished for 2017(not sure). Will have the capacity for 120 million passengers annually. It's gonna bigger than the Beijing airport and will become the most expensive airport EVER build with a price of 82 BILLIONS

Some fact:
Upon completion it will be the fourth largest air facility in land area (physical size). Only three other air facilities are/were larger than Dubai World Central:
1. King Fahd International Airport (in Damman, Saudi Arabia, which is larger than the country of Bahrain) (780 square kilometers)
2. In Montreal, Canada, the Montréal-Mirabel International Airport (392 square kilometers)
3. Riyadh's King Khalid International Airport (225 square kilometers).

If completed as planned, the airport will have an annual cargo capacity of 12 million tons, more than three times that of Memphis International Airport, today's largest cargo hub, and a passenger capacity of more than 120 million - almost 30% more than Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, currently the world's busiest passenger airport.

IntotheWest Jul 7, 2008 10:47 PM

^Yes, yes...Dubai's growth plan is to build the largest _____ (Fill in the blank). Business case is simple...build the largest for bragging rights.

I doubt it'll ever top the busiest (right now, Atlanta at 89m, O'Hare at 76m, and LHR at 68m). Beijing is over 50m now (9th busiest), and with the growth in China, I wouldn't be surprised if it grew quicker than most...especially considering the gas prices, routes being scaled back, etc. Dubai has seen huge growth (had about 35m in 2007), and I can see 50-60m.

WhipperSnapper Jul 8, 2008 12:30 AM

Quote:

You are looking at pictures of a looming scandal. The private airport authorities across Canada are all loading themselves down with debt and working on the assumption they would be able to recoup the expense through user fees based on traffic estimates that were unreasonable before oil prices began to spiral out of control.
The GTAA is hoping to recoup some of the costs of its expansion through real estate investment with over 10 million leaseable square feet proposed.

Nicko999 Jul 8, 2008 1:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntotheWest (Post 3658501)
^Yes, yes...Dubai's growth plan is to build the largest _____ (Fill in the blank). Business case is simple...build the largest for bragging rights.

I doubt it'll ever top the busiest (right now, Atlanta at 89m, O'Hare at 76m, and LHR at 68m). Beijing is over 50m now (9th busiest), and with the growth in China, I wouldn't be surprised if it grew quicker than most...especially considering the gas prices, routes being scaled back, etc. Dubai has seen huge growth (had about 35m in 2007), and I can see 50-60m.

That airport in Dubai will be new, so the 35 million passengers will probably be transfered to the new airport. The 10-15% growth annually should continue so if you calculate, by 2017 the airport will probably get 100 million and will be the largest.

Keng Jul 12, 2008 10:30 PM

Here's a few photos of Winnipeg International Airport. James Armstrong Richardson International well under way, along with a new Greyhound bus terminal, and Canada Post facility...

http://kengillespie.com/img/v2/p240172261-5.jpg

http://kengillespie.com/img/v2/p387051251-4.jpg

http://kengillespie.com/img/v2/p61631195-4.jpg

http://kengillespie.com/img/v3/p275908022-4.jpg

http://kengillespie.com/img/v3/p414625452-5.jpg

Coldrsx Jul 12, 2008 11:11 PM

^sexy

Nicko999 Jul 13, 2008 2:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx (Post 3669717)
^sexy

It's only an airport:rolleyes:

SpongeG Jul 13, 2008 8:16 PM

thats pretty neat to combine the greyhound and the airport

AndrewJ3D Jul 13, 2008 9:08 PM

While I agree that Toronto's current expansion is cold, it does have a minimalistic art gallery type of feel to it. Vancouver is my favorite, I could live in that airport, Toronto's would be a great place for a rave or a night club.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/182/3...4f72f634_o.jpg
taken by: http://www.flickr.com/photos/grapejuicegirl

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/99/29...d4ca9d23_o.jpg
taken by:http://www.flickr.com/photos/blindmonk

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1235/...eddd6e98_o.jpg
taken by: http://www.flickr.com/photos/prof_tournesol

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1240/...6e6eb6e6_o.jpg
taken by:http://www.flickr.com/photos/gravitymachine

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1197/...f0e0be72_o.jpg
taken by:http://www.flickr.com/photos/boroughbaby

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/46/13...108fc9bd_o.jpg
taken by:http://www.flickr.com/photos/lomo_iberico

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2373/...b2c19ada_o.jpg
taken by: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2373/...b2c19ada_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/4/594...9d177d50_b.jpg
taken by:http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecwc

these all taken a few days before opening by an urbantoronto member
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1430/...ec02b7d7_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1313/...83fd2d16_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1251/...d94b5436_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1049/...31e649ea_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1129/...6397af01_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1112/...3d73dbe0_b.jpg



taken by:http://www.flickr.com/photos/wyliepoon


someone123 Jul 13, 2008 10:49 PM

Pearson is nice but to be honest I'd rather just go to an average airport and not have to pay ticket prices that must support some of the highest landing fees on the planet.

newflyer Jul 14, 2008 3:38 AM

Having resently been to Vancouver Intl.... I was reminded how beautiful the new expansion really is.

It is very well laid out and the new food court area is very appealing.

With that said I have also resently seen the Inchon (Seoul) South Korea Airport and Singapore Intl ... AMAZING!! Both are absolutely incredible.

The best airports I have ever seen.

AndrewJ3D Jul 14, 2008 3:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 3671021)
Pearson is nice but to be honest I'd rather just go to an average airport and not have to pay ticket prices that must support some of the highest landing fees on the planet.


As would many but an average airport near Toronto like Hamilton or Buffalo just doesn't have as many destinations to choose from.


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