Living in Gatineau vs Ottawa
 

Please don't generalize that because of higher taxes in Quebec, the cost of living is higher in Gatineau than Ottawa. In fact, since I moved away from Ottawa to Aylmer, the overall cost of living and quality of life has been much fiscally better for my situation (married family with 2 kids).

It may not be the same for everyone, but in my case overall, when you look at city taxes, electricity bills, car and home insurance, it is fiscally better than to live in Gatineau than Ottawa (and we don't pay a water-sewer tax bill).

Yes, the income tax is higher, but there are ways to reduce that.

And we have more access to neighborhoods that are centrally located to the Ottawa core (Chinatown, Westboro, Downtown, The Market) than most folks who live out in Orleans, Barrhaven or Kanata.

Taxes (or cost of living even) or transportation are not the main reasons that keep many more thousands of people from moving from Ottawa to Gatineau.

Politics, language, different laws (like Bill 101 and the language of schooling) and just the cultural feel overall are probably bigger factors, in addition to the perceptions that public services are subpar in Gatineau compared to Ottawa. They'd be correct in terms of health care for sure, but not sure the perceptions match the reality when it comes to other stuff like education. (Seems like it's at least fairly equivalent as opposed to clearly subpar.)

For me coming from Toronto, a big factor was just the general availability of close, walkable neighbourhoods. Gatineau doesn't really have the equivalent to the Glebe or Wellington West or New Edinburgh.

With kids entering high school, the Quebec resident university tuition would be a huge pull if I could just find somewhere that I wanted to live.

That's definitely another motivator as well.

The closest thing is probably Wrightville just west of Les Galeries de Hull but it's still very subpar relative to its comparables in Ottawa.

Perhaps in a decade or so it will be up to snuff but right now it isn't.

Not saying you're going to do it but it's a pensez-y bien.

AFAIK they do often check birthplaces and residency and I am pretty sure you can't just move to Quebec and then register your kids in a Quebec university with the cheaper tuition six months later. My guess is there are thresholds you need to meet regarding how long you and they have lived here.

I'm sure that you are right. Not sure how long you have to be a resident, but there must be a threshold. I'm pretty ensconced in Ottawa at this point, so if I do manage to convince my kids to go to McGill, I'm paying full freight.

The good news is at least they won't pay any more than they'll pay at an Ontario university.

We charge you guys what you'd pay if you stayed in your own province I am pretty sure.

So an Ontarian studying in Quebec won't pay the same as a Newfoundlander.

Given the cost of living it's still worth it (in terms of bang for buck anyway) for an Ottawa kid to study in Montreal versus Toronto.

I didn't realize that's how it worked. Makes sense, and there is no doubt that Montreal is much cheaper overall than Toronto would be. Not to mention that McGill is well worth it at any price.

All this is easy to check in a couple of minutes on the McGill web site. It turns out that all Canadian Citizens, who are not Quebec residents, pay the same tuition. It does not matter from where in the ROC you are.

Hey, thanks for checking and correcting me!

I was going to google it before I moved!

I don't get the scary french factor for anglophones moving to Gatineau.

If anything, it's the 'taxes' argument.

Same here. Actually the English education is maybe even better than in Ottawa. Kanata might be different but in central Ottawa French Immersion is all consuming leaving the English program sub par.

Wakefield and Chelsea are really the only places you could say have a unique character for lack of a better phrasing. Both have the small town and somewhat walkable feel but are closer to downtown Ottawa than anywhere equivalent in Ontario. Some people say downtown Aylmer but it's like three restaurants and a few shops. Plus very far away in terms of time.

Quebec residence is automatic if parents official residence is in Quebec. In fact it explicitly states there is no minimum time. Keep in mind CEGEP and the different system means you probably want to finish at least "Grade 11" on Quebec side but really kids don't want to switch at all during high school.

I think the whole politics both perception and reality is a greater impediment. It is bigger for people from Ottawa or even Ontario than for those of us from another province where it's more irrelevant.

You don't get why people feel that way, or you don't think that many people are actually motivated by that to *not* move to Quebec?

That's interesting. I know people who've lived in Quebec their entire lives and whose kids (who've also never lived anywhere but Quebec) happen to have been born at Montfort in Ottawa (as many thousands of Gatineau kids are), who've gotten grief when applying to a Quebec university due to having an Ontario birth certificate.

This was a few years ago, mind you.

I also have cousins who are from the Maritimes who actually moved permanently to Quebec during their studies (spending all summers there, filing their tax returns there) and it actually took a while (read=years) for them to become eligible for lower Quebec tuition.

But perhaps things have changed recently.

Yeah, Wakefield and Chelsea are definitely appealing. Just not quite the urban environment that we were looking for.

I think that you are right about perception being the biggest issue. Having gone to school in Quebec, I wouldn't think twice about living there again, but there is definitely a reluctance among a good chunk of Ontarians.

Grief yes but they are entitled just requires more paperwork. If you move to study under all Canadian law you remain a resident of where you finished high school. This protects provinces with higher incoming student numbers and in Quebec's case those that spend more on education. Only Quebec and Nova Scotia I believe have out of province rates but eligibility for student loans works in this manner.

Sorry, it was 2 am when I posted that.

I don't get why people say things like 'I would move there, but I don't know French', like it is an insurmountable obstacle.

Then they confirm their decision by stating the taxes are higher there anyways.

If you are talking about rue Principale, it is most definitely not what you describe. It's changed a lot, even in the 13 years I've been living here.

When I moved here, it reminded me a bit of Monkland Avenue in Montreal with the volume knob at half.

It's not that far away... if you have a car, I guess.

I agree it's a bit absurd but you and I would find surprising the number of people for whom being greeted with "bonjour monsieur comment ça va aujourd'hui?" is intimidating, jarring or just something they don't want to go through every place they go every day. Even if that person will switch to English within a split-second 80-90-98% of the time.

Downtown Aylmer is kick ass these days. It has a wonderful village ambiance and there are great eateries and bars. It's exactly as far from downtown as Bayshore is on the Ontario side, not a big deal by car as you say.

TL;DR - moved from east coast, been living in Gatineau for 19 years, no regrets.

I moved to Hull in 2001 from the east coast. Never in my life did I ever expect to live in Quebec. The company I worked for put us up for 4 months when we relocated. The first thing we (wife and 3 year old) said at the time was, we're moving to Ottawa in 4 months. 19 years later and we're still here; having lived in de l'Ile, le Plateau and Bellevue (south west portion in Gatineau). Wife works in Ottawa, still doesn't speak any French but understands it well. I can piece together what I need and understand it very well.

The reason we stayed was the cost of living (overall). We were not well off (still not really), so buying a house in Ottawa was never going to happen, nothing decent anyway. With a child the cost of day care allowed my wife to work and the subsidized sports and activities (i.e. summer camps) made it all worth while. On top of that, and someone already mentioned this, the English schoolboard (WQSB) is top notch. Our child did French immersion from K through 11 and is fully bilingual (to the point where their work team thought French was their first language). Add on the cheaper insurance costs, cheaper public transit lower taxes (due to lower house valuation of course) and economical post-secondary costs it was a no brainer for us. I pay ~200 more per pay in income tax, so say 7k a year maybe give or take. But again, our family could not financially succeed in Ottawa as we have over here so you do what works for you. Coming from the east coast, Quebec and Ontario are the same with different languages essentially so there really wasn't a preference as to where we lived. And after that first 4 months it became pretty clear to us that language was not a reason to avoid Gatineau. Also, one has to remember Gatineau is a little unique in such that there are people from every corner of Quebec living here.

I work with a lot of people, many franco-Ontarians and they almost spit at the idea of living in Quebec... hell even crossing the bridges for any reason (Costco excluded). I find it amusing, but I guess there is some cultural back story there that I never really dug into. For the rest of my east coast friends, most live on the Ottawa side and I am sure they have no regrets either.

The only sub par thing I find living here is the health care, its not that its not good, its that they lack the numbers to provide it properly. The Outaouais has what, a 365k population? The region seems to be staffed for about 150k population... From family doctors, to specialists to in hospital staff there is a shortage. The CAQ is at least recognizing this, maybe it becomes a trend?

As I said, 19 years on for us and we have absolutely no regrets.

PS - the only reason we did not move to Aylmer after le Plateau was so our child could stay in the same high school; again no regrets on that decision either in the end.

I'm with you all the way Wingman. I am a born and raised Calgarian with a very basic understanding of French but I am working on it while I raise a bilingual kid between Wakefield and the Plateau. Mom still lives in Wakefield and I am in the Plateau and my daughter is enrolled Grand-Boisé in Chelsea between us. Aside from the healthcare situation which will potentially be resolved in the coming decade I am very very happy with the social services, affordability and general lifestyle in the Outaouais. My girlfriend, my daughter, and I love the Outaouais and couldn't be happier as a family.

As you guys alluded to, I am sure that if you're in an Ottawa milieu that many people are completely flabbergasted that as anglophones you choose to live on the Quebec side of the river.

Anglophones mostly but as has been said Franco-Ontarians too. Though the latter group has gotten less intense than they used to be about that. The political situation has changed (mellowed out) and Ottawa for a francophone has changed a lot too: much more visible bilingualism in terms of public signage and paperwork, etc., but ironically a near-total collapse of opportunities to use French in everyday life when out and about. Unless of course you're in the company of your own francophone friends.

A relative of my wife's moved to Ottawa from the GTA a number of years ago, and while there is more "stuff" in French in Ottawa (radio stations, books, newspapers, social clubs, etc.), when going about one's business every day they admit they don't really use French much more at the grocery store, with neighbours, with the repairman, bus drivers, than they did in the GTA.

(Most) Franco-Ontarians will still stick to Ottawa no matter what, though. And their anglophone grandkids will be grateful to them for that, I'm sure!

Outside of Gatineau and Montreal many anglophones and alophones still feel like second class citizens - Bill 101 and the various secularism bills I suspect have much to do with it.

When I first moved from Toronto to Ottawa my car insurance went down $100 a month. Then when I moved over to Gatineau it went down another $100 a month. Eventually, we moved back to Ottawa. Having grown up in the GTA for my whole life, there were some subtle differences in living in Quebec that were odd. Plus, my wife doesn't speak French so she eventually had enough of going to the store having the cashier either not being willing to speak English or not being able to speak English. But we look back at our time years and a half in Gatineau with fondness. We lived in a good neighbourhood (near the hospital). It was a great place to start out.

For many in Ottawa, it would be unthinkable to llve across the river. For reasons that have little or nothing to do with language.

I'm surprised about the language thing. I speak C level French if barely and I can't think of more than a handful of times I was allowed to complete a transaction in French. I almost always start in French so maybe that's all it takes, but English is really widespread in Gatineau in my experience.

Curious about subtle differences. I think you might find a lot of these. I certainly find more similarities than maybe between other provinces in some ways. Language obviously a big exception to that.

If you are into community involvement like neighbourhood associations or advocacy groups, language can be a big thing. I lived on the Quebec side for a few years and I personally find it easier to participate in public affairs in Ottawa. Also, even though we complain about the urban/suburban divide, it actually far more balanced in Ottawa whereas Gatineau is clearly skewed to suburban.

Of all my friends and colleagues who made the jump to Quebec, the number one factor was having more than one child in daycare. (in fact, all of them moved to have more kids). Saving tens of thousands a year in daycare fees is enough of an incentive.

In Ontario, after two kids, its more financially sustainable to have one partner just *not* work, rather than hiring a live-in nanny (which is the cheapest option, compared to daycare in Ontario)

I would say that while Gatineau and Montreal may be better on a practical level, the mindset and societal conditions that led to Bill 101 and the secularism debate are still very present in both cities.

If you have serious issues with any of that stuff you'll likely only be marginally happier in Gatineau/Montreal than in the rest of Quebec.

If Gatineau truly was a mini "Ontario"/"ROC (rest of Canada)" on Quebec territory, it would be much larger and have a far greater share of its population from across the river.

As such, non-francophone Ontarians are way more likely to move to historically francophone places that happen to be in Ontario like Orleans, Rockland, Embrun, etc. than they are to Gatineau. (With the resulting demographic changes to those places that we all know about.)

I think this is a very good point.

If you look at Kevin's and YOWetal's posts, it's one thing to be able to get by in everyday life with only minor inconveniences. I mean, I could get by anywhere in the world without starving and not having clothes on my back. And I also think that French isn't that different from English that even the least linguistically gifted aren't able to figure the essentials out.

But that's a very different from actually feeling at home and in a place and wanting to put down roots there. You pointed to community involvement but it can also be as simple as something like coaching your kid's soccer or hockey team.

Obviously, it's not impossible to do but if you look at those who are truly living the dream (:P), they've all pretty much gone "full native": city councillor Mike Duggan, and our three federal MPs Greg Fergus, William Amos and Steven MacKinnon. I believe at least three and maybe even all four of them have francophone spouses so that no doubt helps a lot.

Lived in Ottawa for six years and never once considered moving across the river. From horror stories of dealing with Quebec provincial agencies to simply having everything I needed in Ottawa I didn't see the need to live in an area that was less transit-friendly with fewer amenities further away from job nodes. As someone without a car Gatineau was simply not feasible.

Some really good points here.

As an anglo, one of the concerns I had was being able to have access to critical services in English (prov and local government, doctor, notary, pharmacy, etc.). Sometimes not being fluent in the language can be somewhat potentially hindering. I have not had this issue, period. From 811 to the local hospitals to the city and provincial services sectors I've really never had an issue.

One thing I would say is MTL being such a large area, they do have a lot more services in English than Gatineau does... this is where access to Ottawa can come in to play, for better or worse it is something affects the level of English services available on the QC side of the river.

The person who mentioned being involved in community groups has a very good point, I would say that is pretty much a no go if your are anglo-only. I would say that the Outaouais is a very large and active English community with newsletters, meetings, etc etc. I think its still called the Regional Association of West Quebecers (https://qcgn.ca/us/).

Someone also said they were tired of not being served in English, I find people switch too quickly for my liking. I want to get better in French, they want to serve me as well as they can... I am to the point now where they don't switch until they say something I don't understand lol. There may be some small pockets of French-only but they are small imo, even in Gatineau proper we never have an issue.

That's definitely been my experience. My French is quite good, but the Southwestern Ontario accent is hard to hide, and I find that 9 times out of 10, the person will switch to English on me. That 1 time out of 10 when they don't try to switch is usually in Gatineau proper, not Hull or Aylmer.

The experiences seem quite mixed and variable.

Since I lived outside Quebec as a francophone for a long time, I am often attuned to "barriers to living in English in Quebec" and so if I am attentive I do notice such things.

There do seem to be some, mostly from the municipal and provincial government levels, but also from the private sector as well.

Stuff like when you call an agency for an appointment and the phone message is only in French. In practice the majority of them do have the option of "pressing 9" for English but those that don't are not that rare. Recently I had to call to set up appointments for various public services for a family member and a decent number of places did not have an English option. Not that I needed it, but those days I happened to pay attention and thought "no English option, that's interesting".

And some of these services are region-wide so even if you're living in Aylmer you're calling the same number.

Also signage as we all know is very frequently in French only. It's no big deal if it says ENTRÉE or SORTIE or ARRÊT but when it's a sign in a building that says "you must do this before you do this otherwise you won't get what you want and won't be happy", it's a bit of pain in the ass if you don't understand it.

As I've mentioned before there is also the informal stuff that is often yelled out to members of the public with the assumption that everyone understands, such as "the stop for route 52 has moved today so you need to cross the street and walk down the block and take it next to the daycare centre, and hurry up he'll be there in 2 minutes" or "checkout number four is only accepting cash, no debit or credit". Then you line up unknowingly and let the cashier ring all your stuff in, only to find out you can't pay with no cards and you have no cash on you.

These are just examples. I know they don't happen that often but they'd happen often enough (even if very sporadically) for it to get on my nerves. These things have happened to me in other countries but never anywhere I was living permanently.

Another example is that locally-produced products that are more "artisanal"often have labelling and especially the long list of ingredients, only in French. That would be a big concern for me if I or my kids were allergic. Though obviously we're in the era of smart phones so you can always translate the words on the label.

My Nouveau Brunswick full immersion was never considered good enough for much Franco-dialogue in Gatineau. Most switched to English after a few words. :shrug:

People from France i've met have had more patience than Quebeckers.

I am sure it's just because they could understand you better, since you learned "Parisian French"! :haha:

I like to play a game, where if the person switches to English, I keep talking French. Most of the time, they will switch back if they see how stubborn you are.

French is my first language, but I still wouldn't consider living in Gatineau, since I absolutely need prescription medications. The Québec goverment is letting people die from lack of health care in Gatineau and Montréal because building freeways to rural areas in Eastern Québec is often more politically popular. It seems that for a lot people, it's a larger factor than language for not wanting to live on the Québec side.

It's great to see that a new hospital will be built, but if there's not enough staff, it might be basically unusable just like the Hull and Gatineau hospitals.

Is this because Ontario's pharmacare covers certain medications that Quebec's pharmacare does not?

I hear all the gripes about healtcare in Gatineau, and 95% of them are related to either the difficulty of getting a family doctor, or emergency room wait times.

I have never heard anyone complain about pharmacare.

I mean, getting prescription meds when you don't have access to a family doctor or a nurse practitioner can be really hard. Even if was crossing the border to go to Ottawa walk-in clinics, they often don't do much for anything remotely serious since they can't follow up after that. Some walk-in clinics won't even prescribe basic stuff like antidepressants.

Basic stuff like anti-depressants?! Seems like something that should be monitored not taken on a whim.

Ontario also has a family doctor shortage. A long waiting list and frankly what you get at the end are not the most in demand.

Are there no walk in clinics in Quebec? What do those without Family Docs do?

How does the cross border payment system work? I have family members in healthcare in Ontario but naturally the total separation between them and billing in Canada means they have no idea how Quebecers who come to Ontario are actually billed and what they get reimbursed for.

Even a heavy user of healthcare I would think couldn't be paying that much out of pocket. Certainly nothing compared to the extra taxes you are paying or conversely the savings on housing costs, daycare and tuition.

There are two walk-in clinics I am aware of, one on St-Raymond and another new one on La Verendrye at l'Hopital. There were way more but they seem to have disappeared. Even then, some walk-ins say they cannot take 'new' clients.

It is the one thing that bothers me about the region. The province has not paid attention to this regions unique placement. No other major Quebec city borders with a larger city from another province where many health care professionals get paid more. In MTL you're not going to go work in Cornwall... So many of the provincial pay rates in the health care field are subpar and because Ottawa is right there, many take the opportunity to do the same job and get paid more (who wouldn't really).

I think the province needs to look at that; they subsidize gas in the region ffs and who knows what else. I suppose this could create a reverse problem for those living near the Outaouais say in the Laurentians, they could simply work in the region leaving their home region short. Its not a nothing decision, but something needs to be done.

As a poster said, new hospital is great but you need the staff for it to work.

Yes, I have relatives and friends who live in Ontario (including in Ottawa) and some have waited a long time for a family doctor.

Though the delays and shortages in professionals are on a whole other level in the Outaouais.

We do have walk-in clinics but they are rare and generally packed with "no more patients" signs like 15 minutes after they open in the morning. Wingman is right that there seems to be fewer and fewer of them.

Though things have improved for kids at least with the opening of a non-emergency pediatric walk-in (even if by appointment) affiliated with the hospital. You can call and get an appointment for the same day (or the following morning at a minimum.)

I haven't used it much as my kids have always had a pediatrician, but the times I have it's been very efficient.

Some Ottawa doctors accept the Quebec health card but in my experience the numbers doing so have been dropping quite a bit.

Aside from that, Quebec patients who have no family doctor (and can't get into the Gatineau walk-ins that day) go to Appletree and pay out of pocket.

Then you can claim your expense from the Quebec government, though they don't pay everything back. There is about a 25 dollar difference IIRC between what Quebec pays and what Appletree charges.

I guess you can view it as "queue-jumping" fee.

I would only expect that a very tiny fraction of people would have the perfect storm of bad circumstances combining low income, no family support, no family doctor and a requirement for constant, frequent doctor appointments to renew prescriptions where you need to pay that out-of-pocket fee somewhere like Appletree and "eat" multiple times a month that 25 bucks that Quebec doesn't reimburse.

Also, AFAIK the Quebec family doctor wait list system gives priority to people who have chronic conditions or require frequent appointments precisely for stuff like weekly prescription renewals.

Anyone I've ever known in that situation in Gatineau has always had a family doctor, that I recall.

My parents would have learned Parisian French. I had the honour of getting non-qualified teachers from Quebec because there weren't enough Francophones to teach us (spoiler: finding French-first language teachers in a city that's 97% Anglophone and when there are already Francophone schools is going to be next to impossible). My homeroom teacher in Grade 8 was a former prison guard in Quebec who only got the teaching job in NB because his French was passable.

At best I learned Quebecois and at worst I learned Chiac in my French immersion in NB. Lots of Franglais.

I don't doubt that.

It's just that it's a common meme/joke to have Anglo-Canadians not use their French in Quebec and claim it's because they have learned "Parisian French", as if they could take part in an intellectual talk show in Paris but are somehow unable to order a simple coffee and donut in Gatineau.