1780 E Broadway | 144m, 125m, 122m | 44fl, 38fl, 37fl | Proposed
 

I posted this in the General Discussion thread, but figured it should probably have its own thread as well.

This looks great. I'll start the 5 minute countdown for the anti-development crown to start complaining.

Still too early
 

I disagree, this concept shouldn't have had it's own thread yet, primarily as this information is from the pre-application open house. For this reason, the stats for this project will likely be somewhat different when the actual rezoning application goes up on the City's website.
More importantly, there is a chance this vision of the project will never materialize, it's all contingent on whether the plaza over the cut is approved. In other words, if you want to see this project go ahead make sure to write in and let council/staff know you support both, the proposal for the building, and for the plaza.

Besides, The Daily Hive story is lacking details, and renderings for that matter. Someone shared far more information about the project in the General Thread a few months ago ;)

I agree, this is not at the application stage yet and is probably going to get a decent rework. It's a little premature to have it's own thread until that time, but are welcome to discuss it in the general thread until then.

Reopening as this one is back.

https://www.vancourier.com/real-esta...ent-1.23950524

That looks pretty good!

Here is the new rezoning application.
https://rezoning.vancouver.ca/applic...dway/index.htm

exactly 2yrs later. haha.

it doesn't seem much different from the original proposal though.

Love seeing some office space in there! Looks good!

Well that was more or less on the rumoured time frame ;) . Glad to see the Courier got the scoop.

I would say there's been substantial changes with the new architects. For instance, the heights of the towers and their placement/orientation. There's also an at grade plaza, large art piece in the private courtyard, the Safeway is at grade, there's two overpasses over the cut, and a few other things too.

A big improvement for sure.

Is the patio over the cut along Commercial still on the radar? That was a plan I liked seeing how awful and full of trash (embarrassingly) that area is now.

Surprised the street level interaction and activation is so minimal. Only CRU on any of the public realm is a CRU "lobby". Very concerning.

Daily Hive has a lot more renderings:

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/1780...mmercial-drive

A bit late to the game of creating a high-rise, dense neighbourhood: but better be late than never.

Not true at all. The mall or retail units, plus all the fancy art structures and plaza, give plenty to street level interaction.

Looks better than the previous version.
The at-grade plaza is much more user friendly and less likely to become unused and disconnected.

Not just trees on the roof, but EVERYWHERE!
Looks like a futuristic scene post-humans where everything is overgrown with plants.

https://images.dailyhive.com/2019092...er-2019-13.jpg
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/1780...mmercial-drive

https://images.dailyhive.com/2019092...er-2019-20.jpg
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/1780...mmercial-drive

https://images.dailyhive.com/2019092...ber-2019-7.jpg
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/1780...mmercial-drive

https://images.dailyhive.com/2019092...er-2019-16.jpg
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/1780...mmercial-drive

One screwy part of the proposal are "loading bridges" direct from Broadway over the Grandview Cut
to the project for retail, office and commercial loading and parking.
I think that would negatively impact any future decking over of the Grandview Cut (ie for a plaza).
You can see them on the right in this plan.
The site is big enough they can fit a loading driveway elsewhere (i.e. The Rise only has one shared entrance for mixed use).
https://i.imgur.com/1DFr3p5.png
https://rezoning.vancouver.ca/applic...dway/index.htm

finally lets hope it gets going.

Westbank needs to drop the greenery marketing. It's pure BS.

Yeah I don't think anybody here is going to fall for the old bait and switch trick.

So if they are building that plaza as shown in render, does that mean that they aren't building the Grandview Cut plaza?

Just going off City policy and precedents and interactions with Staff and Council lately, this mainfloor design doesn't seem to fit.

There is no mall. There is only 1 CRU on lvl2 which is restaurant. There are no retail units at the street. The one CRU at street level on the drawings is labelled as "lobby". All the entrances on the street level are lobbies. Broadway is unactivated, and 10th Ave is essentially a blank wall with bike parking. Something is out of place from Staff and through this being proposed in a formal rezoning to end up with a street level design like this with a major uplift in FSR, mix of uses, and a major tenant.

I'd like to see some Letters of Intent for activations of the plaza before it goes ahead as a bare paved surface with no CRU's opening up into it. Even if the Safeway had an ancillary use like a bistro / cafe would work. The landscape plan is almost zero for the public plaza which is concerning too.

Reading this more closely my hunch seems correct that they designed the main level with no small scale retail or retail activations as they're putting their eggs into the possibility of temporary "pop-up" CRUs on the plaza. Their design principles even detail this out. They address that dead spaces will be an issue, and then essentially say we're proposing an "alternative" to what is typically recommended and done... which is to not provide small scale retail (as per policy) or activate the edges and corners.

"The proposal presents an alternative recommendation, where the
smaller scale retail is clustered along the public plaza with the
Broadway elevation at grade being dominated by a glazed elevation
for the grocery store. "

This is a big cop out. They're intending to use square footage from the public plaza space to install pop up businesses so they don't have to put them into the design of their building floorplate on their mainfloor.

It looks good, and is at a scale that should have been implemented decades ago in that area, but my god will they have an uphill battle trying to get this built. People in the community are going to go apeshit.

I agree. This plan looks pretty poor at street level.

Yup.
It's a bit odd, too given that other Safeways have had shallow retail on the street fronts (Davie) or been upstairs (Robson).

all the new Safeways have a starbucks with their own area and seating. They also have a much better hot food setup also with seating. The Burquitlam one has a sushi place. They have a nice outdoor seating area too. New Westminster station is a good example of how the seating outside the store can look.

I don't think they need more retail in there. Sometimes it's nice just to have a breathing space, I know I liked them in Tokyo just a place to step away from the madness within the madness.

Do we really need more of what is acrss the street? pizza slices and bubble tea shops?

Is it possible for a mod to update the title? The new scheme has towers of 24, 27 and 30 floors.

Not a fan of the rats nest in the courtyard.

Title updated.

I thought they reduced the heights to appease the neighbourhood group. Now it's back up to 30 stories?

All internal activations, however. The Burquitlam one is aesthetically pleasing, yes, but aside from the lifestyle photos ventilation louvers and glass walls that feature the blank sides of stairwells... it's an urban design missed mark for the area and intersection.

While developers dislike the insertion of small scale retail with their major leasees, the large format retailers as their major development partners (think Crosstown and Rise at Cambie and Broadway - we developers hear this every step of the way because they want to maximize square footage - but from an urban design POV, the City policy on the so called "chicklet retail frontages" adds great resiliency and activation at the street level. It's a well worth and long term vision compromise. Architects and large format retailers hate it because it forces them to re-think their typical business and floorplan models, but the community benefits.

The giant trellis? True, I can see where they're going with it, but they need to clean up the design a little.

Yeah, seems really ambitious to try for a 10 storey vine, unless there are plant pots along the cabling - which would be a maintenance nightmare.

I often exit the Skytrain station onto 10th Avenue and had just gotten used to it being all done and tidy lately.



Sept.27 '19, my pics
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...921/elWdkY.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/ZLPNaX.jpg

Lol, you better savour every second of the peaceful commute for the time being.

Because everyone was asking, I just thought that I would like to share my thoughts on the project....

This project is at a significant connection between two Skytrain lines. There should be no excuses that it isn't 40+ stories. But we already know that; in fact I am hopeful that this project will end up encouraging bolder developments. However projects like these are long over-due at Commercial/Broadway. Coquitlam is seeing more development than this area has in the last 10 years.

I'm also not fooled by the green-washing of it all. But I also think that the project will turn out being a very nice addition to the neighbourhood and a great step in dragging downtown off of the peninsula.

The only thing that has kind of got me questioning it all is the social housing aspect. I have to wonder how much social housing takes away from the 160 rental units being added that are available to the general working public? I am open to listening to other opinions on this.

Overall, this project gets my complete support as it is a change much needed in this corner of Vancouver.

The social housing appears to be part of the 160 rental units, though that is based on parsing the development statistics which aren't particularly clear on that. Basically, it looks like rental housing is a quarter of all the housing provided (with strata being the bulk). Of the rental, another quarter of that is "non-market rental"...presumably the same as social here.

To me, questioning how much the social housing/non-market rental takes away from the general rental is not the issue. Rather, I wonder how on a site that is nearly 6 FSR, Westbank gets away with 75% market housing that will almost certainly be beyond the means of most of us.

Maybe they're planning on it being pot plants... :P

It needs refinement for sure.

The city did a survey on the grandview cut plaza (near commercial drive) as a follow up on the original 2017 proposal. It was quite strongly opposed in the survey results, as it was seen as the private developer hijacking public space. I think many folks in Grandview-Woodland are expecting the developer to provide a plaza on the Safeway site, and for a separate publicly funded (or CAC funded) plaza over the cut at Commercial Drive (let's call it Skytrain turning plaza, since that's the only thing anyone will be able to hear).

...and in news that will surprise no one here

I like how she's complaining about the increase AND decrease of property values in another article. Jeez, pick a lane and stick with it.

~
 

I guess we are getting accustomed to much bigger towers now because 520 units in 3 towers does seem miniscule. I think just 1 single Brentwood tower has around that many units. Density should have been 7 or 8 FSR, with more focus on rental units.

The density of this is anything but sustainable in this climate emergency we are in! Building denser is exactly what we need to do along the Broadway Corridor and this is an example of underbuilding for the future.

At the end of the day I would be surprised if it is a Safeway. Sobey's has been trying to simplify their business model and banners. Thrifty Foods is one of their most profitable divisions and despite the name, very service oriented. FreshCo is their low-cost banner and Sobey's is their mainstream banner. If they shutdown the Safeway store for a year for construction I would be surprised to see it reopen as Safeway. My guess would be a Thrifty's without the Starbucks or a FreshCo with a strong ethnic section.

I would be surprised to see a Freshco. I would think Westbank would like to have a more upscale supermarket to help sell the units... but what do I know.

There has been many Safeway's redeveloped and reopen as Safeway.

If they want "upscale," shouldn't it be an IGA?

Yes Austin Heights Safeway just reopened as Safeway. Safeway has a long history and loyal customer base in BC and the west, to change that now would be a dumb move.

I don't know if Sobeys still owns the property or it was sold to the developer. You would expect there would be some right of first refusal on the space.

Safeway has some fairly expensive union contracts in place. In Alberta and Saskatchewan they have given up differentiating the Safeway and Sobey's stores (same specials and flyers).

An IGA would be unlikely. Sobey's has the rights to IGA in Canada (except BC). In BC IGA belongs to Georgia Main Food Group. If somehow Georgia Main was to get the property, they also own the Fresh St Market banner that is more upscale experience.

While I agree that Safeway has a long history and likely a lot of brand loyalty, I would hazard to argue that young people don't have any brand loyalty to grocery stores and their preferences are driver to a much larger degree by whatever grocery store is nearby. Should there be multiple choices, price point will win out. In that respect, Safeway suffers greatly as it is common knowledge that it is overpriced. The closest thing to brand loyalty these days is points programs and Loblaws is mopping the floor with the competition. More Rewards is hilariously bad: I once calculated I had to spend $1,000 to get a free lemon. Meanwhile, PC Points can be earned at various Loblaws grocery stores, Shoppers, and Mobil and Esso for gas. We earn about $250-$300 a year in PC Points and make a point of spending them to get our Christmas dinner and holiday snacks and appetizers for free, plus a new set of towels.

This project is not being developed solely by Westbank - like the Granville Street and Davie Street Safeway redevelopments, it's by Crombie REIT with Westbank. Crombie REIT is the property arm of Sobeys, so it's not likely to be anything other than a Sobeys branded store here. Both Davie and Granville are Safeway stores, so that seems most likely here too.

I don't necessarily find them 'overpriced' as SFU suggests; some items are cheaper than anywhere else, others more expensive, and their special offers are as good as any other store brand. The new store will be quite a bit bigger (and in terms of ambience it couldn't be worse than the existing store) so I would expect a Safeway to be popular in this location.

yea i like PC i get $100 or so every other month, usually buy cologne at shoppers drug mart :P

Safeway isn't too bad, its convenient that its the only grocery store open until midnight, I only go for air miles deals these days, you can get a lot of bonus miles on useful things.

Safeway has improved a lot on price in past year or so (ie in response to lost market share).
Their loss leaders in their flyers are on par price-wise with No Frills (and might be better quality).
Interestingly, I got a mailer from Safeway advertising the King Edward & Oak Safeway as newly renovated and "grand re-opening"
- so they are targeting Yaletowners for that store following City Square's closure (vs Robson & Denman).

Save-on-Foods and maybe IGA are the most expensive of the mainstream grocers (not sure about Whole Foods though).

Agreed, PC Points are best, then Air Miles (based on the bonus offers like Safeway''s occasional "Blue Fridays", not the 1 mile per $20!).
More Rewards now has digital offers that aren't too bad - but it's hit and miss whether you want the item and it's usually limited to single quantities.