NEW YORK | Sunnyside Yards
Creating this separate thread for a development that could overtake the Hudson Yards thread.
Sunnyside Yards in Queens has always been talked about as a potential site for everything from housing to stadiums, and convention centers. But now with both the mayor of New York - Bill de Blasio, and the governor of New York - Andrew Cuomo, both homing in on Sunnyside Yards as the next mega-development in the city, the discussion has begun. What should be built over the yards? One obvious answer would be housing, but the question is how should it be built, and what along with it? As the mayor and governor play a little tug of war over the site, the formation of a plan begins. But first, an overview of the site, courtesy of GoogleEarth... Sunnyside Yards 1. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/159052209/original.jpg 2. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/159052210/original.jpg 3. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/159052211/original.jpg 4. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/159052212/original.jpg 5. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/159052213/original.jpg 6. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/159052214/original.jpg 7. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/159052215/original.jpg 8. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/159052216/original.jpg 9. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/159052217/original.jpg 10. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/159052218/original.jpg 11. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/159052219/original.jpg 12. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/159052220/original.jpg 13. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/159052221/original.jpg 14. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/159052222/original.jpg 15. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/159052223/original.jpg 16. http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/159052224/original.jpg |
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/op...f=opinion&_r=1 New York’s Next Big Thing http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/...-master675.jpg Sunnyside Yards in Queens, which could hold the kind of convention center the city needs. By DANIEL L. DOCTOROFF NOV. 28, 2014 Quote:
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http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.2036405
New proposal suggests moving Javits Center to Queens in a bid to increase convention business, affordable housing http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo...k-aerials.jpg? A new development proposal suggests relocating the Javits Center (pictured) from Manhattan to Queens. http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo...s.jpg?enlarged BY LARRY MCSHANE December 6, 2014 Quote:
http://static2.nydailynews.com/polop...de7n-2-web.jpg http://static1.nydailynews.com/polop...de7n-3-web.jpg http://static2.nydailynews.com/polop...-converted.jpg http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo...s.jpg?enlarged Daily News editorial... http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/e...icle-1.2035624 Think big, gentlemen The Javits to Sunnyside plan makes sense http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo...b.jpg?enlarged December 7, 2014 Quote:
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http://observer.com/2015/02/de-blasi...-plan-details/
De Blasio Heralds Sunnyside Yards as Next Stuy-Town, Unveils Other Housing Details https://nyoobserver.files.wordpress....eg?w=635&h=422 By Kim Velsey 02/03/15 Quote:
e Real Estate Board (the powerful developers) are ready to build, and will push to get this done on both fronts. http://www.rew-online.com/2015/02/03...ng-to-do-list/ Bold de Blasio adds 160,000 units to housing ‘to do’ list By Dan Orlando February 3, 2014 Quote:
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Cuomo returns to Sunnyside Yards convention center idea
Tess Hofmann February 5/2015 Quote:
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...unnyside-yards Mayor to guv: 'Plenty of room' at Sunnyside Yards http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pb...20150204134935 ANDREW J. HAWKINS FEBRUARY 4, 2015 Quote:
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The number of bridges and rail flyovers in the area would make this site very complex to develop. It would probably take at least a billion just to get the infrastructure to a point where you could even START construction on the actual platform and buildings. I'm not sure how that level of expense could ever be paid off with affordable housing and a convention center. The Eastern half of the yards might be possible, but the West half looks too complex and small to justify the expense.
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Lots of potential. This is the scarce land that developers like to develop a mini city. I can see this complementing the future DoBro like skyline of LIC. Something like this could have 40,000 units of housing if not more depending on how dense it is. Well, thats it they built Shenzhen style which has many developments on sites like this or larger. Hopefully the city thinks big, this is a rare opportunity like the HY.
This is probably 6 years if not more from a platform even starting, if it does. |
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That's becuase you're only focusing on 2 potential components of the development. Trust that there are many minds involved here, if the numbers don't work, it won't get done. Quote:
It took years before Hudson Yards could begin, and that was after a plan was in place, for which the city will embark on a study before anything is formulated with any certainty. But this is how things get done. You can just pull an idea out of your head on a development this complex and say "this is exactly what and how it's going to be". That's why de Blasio had no concrete details. But the talk of building housing had me thinking of some other developments in the city that happened over railyards, and I remember Concourse Village in the Bronx. This is a good read that gives an idea of the effort for such an undertaking... http://www.startsandfits.com/?p=255 A South Bronx Rail Yard Is Reborn http://www.startsandfits.com/wp-cont...view_Large.jpg February 6, 2011 by AD Quote:
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Several random and outside the box thoughts I have on this...
- I'd hate to move a convention center out of Manhattan since that is the center of the business community but if they can really get 4 of 8 billion needed from selling the property, it'd be hard not to give strong consideration to the idea. - I'm not too sold on housing on the Javits lot. It seems to me like an old World Trade Center complex would be better. No, it would not have the nostalgia of downtown, but it could rejuvenate city moral, could be blocked off from the grid, and would fit in perfectly with Hudson Yards. Although, I haven't looked at what the current demand is for office space. - The housing component of the Sunnyside plan should be something in the form of the old Lighthouse project. It did a great job putting all the pieces together. - I'm not a fan of the NFL being in Jersey with two teams and none in NYC. I think we're getting close to the time when one of those teams can opt out (the Jets I would imagine). This would be the perfect opportunity to build a stadium in either Queens or Manhattan, esp Queens since it would have room to grow. - I am 110% opposed to demolition of MSG so I hope whatever happens with the Javits lot should this decision be made happens quickly before anyone gets any wild ideas of moving MSG there. |
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As to the proposal for moving the convention center...it's possible but going to cost. Sale/lease of Javits would only cover a small portion of the cost to rebuild a larger one over the rail yard and may not be financially responsible. The day may come where office and residential construction is justified due to lack of available land. Willets Point may be a better choice. |
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But that would probably be contingent on parcel sales...which would need to happen after the new Sunnyside Yards Javits Center was built. |
Some extra info/reading:
= = = = = = = = = = = = Sunnyside on track for major land grab http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pb...20150206185737 Quote:
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...ajor-land-grab |
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Also about the convention center, keep in mind that the governor was calling for the new convention center to be further east, at Aqueduct racetrack where the casino is. But the cost was being paid for privately by the same company that wanted expanded gambling at the site. Cuomo put off legalized gambling in the city for a few years, so that plan was dead. But the need for a new convention center comes from the fact that Javits is basically 3 to 4 times too small to bring the type of business the city wants. Building something that large in Manhattan is out of the question, and a convention center in Queens would be in proximity to the city's airports. Quote:
No, it won't be an easy process (why would anyone think otherwise???) to build over the railyards. New York is hardly an easy place to build in to begin with, but that doesn't mean things don't get done. My eyes roll over 3 times whenever I see whining about something being "difficult". |
http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2015/0...egaproject.php
Inside Sunnyside Yards, New York City's Next Megaproject http://ny.curbed.com/uploads/01_kens...s_DSC_3583.jpg [The Sunnyside Yards in Queens, the site of two new development proposals, is home to a complicated overlap of trains and neighborhoods. All photos by Nathan Kensinger.] http://kensinger.blogspot.com/ February 19, 2015 by Nathan Kensinger Quote:
http://ny.curbed.com/uploads/02_kens...s_DSC_3570.jpg http://ny.curbed.com/uploads/03_kens...s_DSC_2724.jpg http://ny.curbed.com/uploads/04_kens...s_DSC_3468.jpg http://ny.curbed.com/uploads/05_kens...s_DSC_3170.jpg http://ny.curbed.com/uploads/06_kens...s_DSC_3213.jpg http://ny.curbed.com/uploads/07_kens...s_DSC_3366.jpg http://ny.curbed.com/uploads/16_kens...s_DSC_3049.jpg Development bearing down... http://ny.curbed.com/uploads/11_kens...s_DSC_3268.jpg |
Looking to get back on the railyard bandwagon, the Bronx wants to build...
http://www.welcome2thebronx.com/word...al-rail-yards/ Bronx BP Proposes Development Over Several Rail Yards By Ed García Conde February 19, 2015 Quote:
http://www.welcome2thebronx.com/word...02/149thst.jpg Quote:
http://www.welcome2thebronx.com/word...ingsbridge.jpg Quote:
http://www.welcome2thebronx.com/word.../riverdale.jpg |
City to Study Feasibility of Sunnyside Yards, Amid Concerns
Saturday, February 21, 2015 Rowley Amato Quote:
Sunnyside Yards Development Will Be Costly and Time-Consuming, Experts Say Damn, I thought it would be done in six days and all we need is 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish to feed the workers. Silly me! Jeanmarie Evelly February 19, 2015 Quote:
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The Bedford Park yard has the most potential. It's location right off the GC and the fact that Tracy Towers is already decked over the northern part of the yard, it seems obvious. 149 St is also good. You've got the Morrisania air rights towers just up the way that did this in the 70s. You could probably build 4,000-6,000 here alone. As for the Riverdale yard I just don't see it being worth the effort. Too small, not dense enough around there to justify, plus I've always liked the visibility of that yard next to the football field. It's cool, don't deck over every yard in town, rail fans will be very unhappy. |
What's with all the baseball and track fields in the Bronx? All three aerials have them.
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It sure seems like it would be cheaper in all three of those places to just tear down some old low-density blocks and replace them with towers. The last one is especially silly as it looks like it's right next to a bunch of suburban style single family homes.
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http://www.nycedc.com/opportunity/su...t-services-rfp Sunnyside Yards Feasibility Study, Consultant Services RFP Submission Deadline March 20, 2015 at 4:00 pm Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/21/ny...epot.html?_r=0 Despite Cuomo’s Opposition, de Blasio Requests Housing Proposals for Queens Rail Depot By MATT FLEGENHEIMER FEB. 20, 2015 Quote:
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/articl...s-housing-plan By Sally Goldenberg Feb. 20, 2015 Quote:
I think in the end, everyone will come together. Amtrak has more say over what gets eventually gets done here. Quote:
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Northern Manhattan rail yard eyed for housing, tech
ANDREW J. HAWKINS MARCH 24, 2015 Quote:
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Isn't this essentially an iteration of the Sherman Creek redevelopment concept which has been around for years?
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As Sunnyside Yards Divides LIC, Real Estate Pros Propose Closing the Gap
https://nyocommercialobserver.files....ide-yards.jpeg Quote:
http://commercialobserver.com/2015/0...osing-the-gap/ |
Key Queens councilman opposes mega-towers near Sunnyside Yards
Jimmy Van Bramer, who serves Western Queens, says his constituents don't want a 50-story building as part of de Blasio's proposed plan to redevelop the rail yard :koko: Quote:
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...unnyside-yards |
These are the same people who complain that NY housing is too expensive. Unreal.
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http://ny.curbed.com/2016/10/28/1345...ment-plans-nyc
Study of Hudson Yards-style development eyed for Sunnyside delayed BY EMILY NONKO OCT 28, 2016 Quote:
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https://therealdeal.com/2017/02/06/d...b-19b-nyc-edc/
De Blasio’s Sunnyside Yard proposal would cost $16B-$19B: NYC EDC Roughly 85% of the 180-acre site could be developed, study claims https://s12.therealdeal.com/trd/up/2...de-Yards-2.jpg February 06, 2017 Quote:
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...sio-pipe-dream http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pb...creen&maxw=770 City study: Massive Queens project is no de Blasio pipe dream Building a new neighborhood over Sunnyside rail yard is feasible, administration asserts Joe Anuta By Joe Anuta Feb 6, 2017 |
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http://www.politico.com/states/new-y...lopment-109392
Study highlights challenges, potential for Sunnyside Yard development http://static2.politico.com/dims4/de...side-yards.jpg By SALLY GOLDENBERG 02/06/17 Quote:
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This is just a Blasio's dream project and nothing more.
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Sunnyside Yard megaproject may have a master planner
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/eX3c....09_AM.0.0.png "...Crain’s reports that Practice for Architecture and Urbanism (PAU), the studio founded by former SHoP Architects partner Vishaan Chakrabarti, has been tapped through a request for proposals to conceptualize what the Queens megaproject could look like. PAU declined to comment and the city’s Economic Development Corporation (NYCEDC), who issued the request for proposals in November, told Crain’s that it has not officially designated a team... ...The leading proposal put forth in the study would see the creation of between 18,000 and 24,000 apartments, of which about 30 percent would be earmarked as affordable housing. That proposal would also create between 13 and 19 schools, 38 and 52 acres of open space, and retail..." |
18-24k units within 180 acres is nice. Quite high density.
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Sunnyside Yard megaproject is no longer just a pipe dream
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/J8ii...e_yard_0.0.jpg "The Sunnyside Yard megaproject is no longer just a pipe dream; On Thursday, the city and Amtrak jointly confirmed the news that it had hired Vishaan Chakrabarti’s Practice for Architecture and Urbanism (PAU) as lead consultant to form a master plan for the proposed megadevelopment. The city and Amtrak also announced the creation of the Sunnyside Yard Steering Committee, which will spend the next 18 months organizing public meetings and workshops to elicit feedback from Queens residents on how best to proceed with the megaproject’s development, and address the needs of local residents. The steering committee will work in tandem with the group of consultants to formulate a master plan for the development. The approximately 35-member committee is comprised of a variety of local stakeholders and technical experts such as Gail Mellow, the president of LaGuardia Community College, Denise Keehan-Smith, the chair of Queens Community Board 2, and Felix Ciampa, the executive director of the Urban Land Institute of New York. The committee will be co-chaired by Elizabeth Lusskin, the president of the Long Island City Partnership, and Sharon Greenberger, the CEO of the YMCA of Greater New York... ...This new steering committee will use that as a basis for their master plan; many of the details in that plan still remain intact: Decking is possible on 80-85 percent of site, which totals 180 acres of space. This could see the creation of up to 24,000 homes, 19 schools, and 52 acres of public parks... ...The master planning process for this newest iteration of the plan will officially get underway this summer, and the steering committee will meet once every quarter over the 18 month planning process..." |
Sunnyside Yard planning process to launch this summer
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http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...ch-this-summer |
Hudson Yards v2?
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If this isn't a giant forest of 70 floor towers, it should be labeled a disappointment. This is the perfect location (tons of transit and right next to Midtown) for intense high density. In some ways it's better located than Hudson Yards (geographically closer to and faster subway/train ride to the Midtown core). But I don't doubt there will be some community pushback. |
Just from some planning, but if they ever got this kind of density built over and around the yards, it would be among one of the greatest accomplishments in the City.
https://dynamicstarllc.com/data/files/capturess.png https://dynamicstarllc.com/1_21_portfolio.html |
You know I've been wondering, as I've been following these East Side Access construction updates from the Sunnyside Yards construction, is the MTA even casually planning for or accounting for the potential locations of deck and foundation locations in the yard if these SY vision proposals ever move into fruition?
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This is a good idea on the thinking so far... Quote:
I'm sure everything is being taken into account by the planning team. https://www.nycedc.com/project/sunnyside-yard Quote:
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I just hope they unify the street grid, so it would seamlessly connect the neighborhoods, and not just have this weird formless master-planned blob shape.
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Friday, March 1, 2019 6:00 PM there is a public meeting/work shop for Sunnyside Yards.
Events: https://www.sunnysideyard.nyc/events...onal-workshops |
I'm convinced that the public is too dumb to be involved in any planning process, but good luck.
https://astoriapost.com/city-present...in-unconvinced City Presents Sunnyside Yards as An ‘Enormous Opportunity’, Many Remain Unconvinced March 31, 2019 By Christian Murray Quote:
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City guides Sunnyside Yard review in increasingly progressive Queens
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https://www.crainsnewyork.com/real-e...ressive-queens |
The notion that it could take 50 years or more to complete is absurd. At most, the entire build out should take 20.
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https://sunnysidepost.com/new-yorks-...monday-meeting
City’s EDC Releases Sunnyside Yard Design Concepts at Monday Meeting https://sunnysidepost.com/wp-content...917_120038.jpg Sept. 17, 2019 By Shane O’Brien Quote:
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https://sunnysidepost.com/wp-content...7_115952-1.jpg https://sunnysidepost.com/wp-content...917_120136.jpg |
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