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-   -   Cobalt Luxury Residences On King | 97.5 & 97.5m | 2 x 30 fl | Complete (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209242)

beanmedic Jan 15, 2014 10:34 PM

Cobalt Luxury Residences On King | 97.5 & 97.5m | 2 x 30 fl | Complete
 
As indicated by their large illuminated streetfront sign and website:
"IT IS WITH DEEP REGRET THAT DELTA BINGO HAMILTON WILL BE CLOSING ITS DOORS ON SUNDAY JANUARY 19TH AFTER OUR 7PM SESSION.

JOIN US FOR ONE LAST HURRAH AND A PRIZEBOARD BLOWOUT.

ALL PRIZES ARE A MUST GO AT 7PM."
http://www.mydeltabingo.com/

coalminecanary Jan 15, 2014 10:42 PM

This is the best news I've heard this year!

it's not april fools is it?

davidcappi Jan 15, 2014 10:57 PM

Please let this be real.

ScreamingViking Jan 15, 2014 11:02 PM

No offense to bingo or bingo players, but this is awesome news.

Who owns that building?

davidcappi Jan 15, 2014 11:15 PM

That is a prime location for a really nice restaurant/bar, or perhaps a new department store.

It'd be a dream if the farmers market got into that space.

matt602 Jan 15, 2014 11:19 PM

I literally just passed the back of this place yesterday thinking "when the hell is this place going to close?" This is amazing news because there's very little chance of this property sitting vacant. I'd imagine the reason it is closing is because someone has already bought it, even.

davidcappi Jan 15, 2014 11:26 PM

It's probably one of the largest single spaces available downtown. It's massive inside. The interior needs a lot of work, and the outside needs a good cleaning, but it's actually a funky building. Can't wait to see what happens here.

Dr Awesomesauce Jan 16, 2014 12:21 AM

Great news! Supermarket...stack a condo on top...that's my 2 cents.

SteelTown Jan 16, 2014 1:16 AM

YAY!! Off to a great start in 2014.

king10 Jan 16, 2014 1:23 AM

good riddance

thistleclub Jan 16, 2014 1:40 AM

I presume that the building is owned by Cam Johnstone, president of Delta Bingo and son of the late John Johnstone -- who, with partner John Cameron, bought the building for $800,000 in 1996. The Spec offered a glimpse of five of the pair's past holdings as part of 2001's Lament for a Downtown series. They once held the Century and Odeon theatres as well as parking lots at King William & Catharine, Hughson & Wilson and MacNab & Mulberry. (All were sold at a loss in 2000-2001.)

As big and unexpected as this news is, it's interesting that most other Delta Bingo holdings have converted to electronic gaming, that GTA West Gaming Bundle RFPQ was released a little over a month ago, and that the 45 King East property was listed within it among the sites intending to participate in the OLG's Charitable Bingo & Gaming Revitalization Initiative.

Anyone taking odds on a Boardwalk Gaming angle?

Jon Dalton Jan 16, 2014 2:03 AM

Urban format Walmart? I'm not a fan, but that is one company that can use a large square footage and can afford the investment. I imagine it would also do well, maybe give the dollar stores a run for their money.

I'm trying to think of any other retail chain that is not going under that might do well there.

drpgq Jan 16, 2014 2:29 AM

They also own the parking lot behind it or rather beside it I'm pretty sure.

movingtohamilton Jan 16, 2014 2:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thistleclub (Post 6408554)
...As big and unexpected as this news is, it's interesting that most other Delta Bingo holdings have converted to electronic gaming, that GTA West Gaming Bundle RFPQ was released a little over a month ago, and that the 45 King East property was listed within it among the sites intending to participate in the OLG's Charitable Bingo & Gaming Revitalization Initiative....

I think Thistle has nailed it. What a tragedy for real downtown revitalization. And there is no way to stop this transition, I presume.

ScreamingViking Jan 16, 2014 3:28 AM

It would be an unfortunate wasted opportunity.

Seems kind of odd that they'd word the announcement that way though if something bigger and better was being planned.

This Paul Wilson story about Kresge's (of exactly a year ago) was noted in another thread a while back but bears a link here. It's a good read, if you haven't already seen it.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...dime-1.1355844

movingtohamilton Jan 16, 2014 3:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking (Post 6408670)
It would be an unfortunate wasted opportunity.

This Paul Wilson story about Kresge's (of exactly a year ago) was noted in another thread a while back but bears a link here. It's a good read, if you haven't already seen it.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...dime-1.1355844

Great story from Paul Wilson.

Finding new vitality for the building will come only if someone writes a massive cheque to the owners. I presume it's worth millions.

ScreamingViking Jan 16, 2014 3:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thistleclub (Post 6408554)
The Spec offered a glimpse of five of the pair's past holdings as part of 2001's Lament for a Downtown series.

Damn that article was depressing. :(

CaptainKirk Jan 16, 2014 4:26 AM

Mercanti?

Pearlstreet Jan 16, 2014 3:51 PM

The number of times I have mumbled "When this place closes... !@#$%".

Fantastic news!

SteelTown Jan 16, 2014 3:55 PM

I just have this odd "be careful for what you wish for" feeling.

I can't imagine the bingo hall would just close and pack up. They must've received a conditional offer.

coalminecanary Jan 16, 2014 5:18 PM

I guess the question is "what could be worse"?

Not much...

flar Jan 16, 2014 5:29 PM

The only thing that could be worse would be to demolish it and build a crappy or suburban style building.

I'm not sure what you could do with that space to be honest. It's only a two story building. The floor space is big but the ceilings aren't very high. Probably a bit too low for many purposes. Also, IIRC, there are a lot of posts inside. I highly doubt something like walmart would go there.

Pearlstreet Jan 16, 2014 5:35 PM

In my little perfect world it would be a downtown hardware store. I hate going all the way to Lowes or Home Depot. Canadian Tire and Arrudas doesn't cut it. So much renewal and so far to go! Grease the wheels of renewal.

Pearlstreet Jan 16, 2014 5:47 PM

The Spec article re: the closure.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/43...losing-sunday/

fuller Jan 16, 2014 5:54 PM

Not my hope, but it's worth noting Shoppers Drug Mart never did replace the store they closed on James St. N.

In recent years they've been forced to learn how to do adaptive reuse in downtown areas (sort of) instead of their usual.

beanmedic Jan 16, 2014 5:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flar (Post 6409301)
The only thing that could be worse would be to demolish it and build a crappy or suburban style building.

I'm not sure what you could do with that space to be honest. It's only a two story building. The floor space is big but the ceilings aren't very high. Probably a bit too low for many purposes. Also, IIRC, there are a lot of posts inside. I highly doubt something like walmart would go there.

This Sobeys Express store looks stunningly similar to the bingo hall location. I would also welcome something like this.

http://cdn.thegridto.com/wp-content/...1.58.11-AM.png

thistleclub Jan 16, 2014 6:06 PM

Delta Bingo hall closing Sunday
(Hamilton Spectator, Carmela Fragomeni, Jan 16 2013)

Delta Bingo in downtown Hamilton is closing its doors for good Sunday night after the last game is played.

Messages on Delta Bingo's website and a sign at the site have announced the closing.

Councillor Jason Farr, who represents the ward where Delta Bingo has operated for years, says he's been notified about the closure and that the operators are closing it to concentrate on converting its St. Catharines and Fort Erie bingo halls over to electronic Bing -- e-Bingo.

Delta Bingo has been operating at the old Kresge department store at 45 King Street East on property leased from developer Ralph Frisina.

About 30 charities that fundraised through the bingos at Delta are affected.

"It means charities will have to be creative and find another way to raise that $10,000," said Farr.

The closure means Princess Bingo remains the only bingo hall in Hamilton and the city and charities are exploring any possibility some of the charities could move to Princess.

Bee Eye 'N' Gee O Inc. owners Chuck Lemenchick and Mark Cosens sent a message to its customers and contractors Jan. 7 notifying them of the closing.

In it, they said they intend to continue operating its St. Catharines and Fort Erie facilities and convert both to E-Bingo in keeping with the approvals they were already granted them by the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation.

"The closure of Delta Bingo Hamilton will allow us to focus our efforts on upgrading and strengthening our remaining locations," the message read.

Farr said he has mixed emotions over the loss.

He said the smaller grass roots local charities will be left suddenly scrambling to offset the "limited revenue Delta Bingo brought them annually".

At the same time the customers who came from all over Hamilton to Delta Bingo will have lost a venue of good fun and entertainment, he said.

However, "I could completely understand and appreciate the argument that 'wouldn't it be nice to have a department store there again'."

movingtohamilton Jan 16, 2014 6:17 PM

Re. Spec article above....thank you Councilor Farr for your vast imaginative response. :(

This space was a complete eyesore and reinforced the idea that downtown Hamilton is a dump. So I wonder if Farr is lobbying for electronic gaming in this building? Gotta keep the fun and entertainment going.

coalminecanary Jan 16, 2014 6:18 PM

How about LCBO?

Keep in mind this building has frontage on three different streets so used creatively it could actually be filled not only with one big store - it could be two, one facing king, one king william - or up to 8 if someone was really creative with the hughson frontage too

movingtohamilton Jan 16, 2014 7:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coalminecanary (Post 6409402)
How about LCBO?

Keep in mind this building has frontage on three different streets so used creatively it could actually be filled not only with one big store - it could be two, one facing king, one king william - or up to 8 if someone was really creative with the hughson frontage too

Great idea!

Does anyone have info on the owner of the building (per The Spec article), developer Ralph Frisina?

CaptainKirk Jan 16, 2014 7:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuller (Post 6409355)
Not my hope, but it's worth noting Shoppers Drug Mart never did replace the store they closed on James St. N.

Wellington and Cannon? Too far?

thistleclub Jan 16, 2014 7:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton (Post 6409490)
Does anyone have info on the owner of the building (per The Spec article), developer Ralph Frisina?

Frisina Construction (later Frisina Group), led by Ralph's father Al, built the Century 21 building then retreated to the suburbs. In recent years, the company knocked down a Victorian at the elbow of Haymarket Street (you can watch it disappear in Google Maps Street View) and announced plans to build a three-storey, 27,000 square foot office complex on the SW corner of Queen and Main.

Not sure if this would be the same Ralph Frisina who works as a broker for Royal LePage.

movingtohamilton Jan 16, 2014 7:39 PM

Thank you, thistleclub, for the info on Frisina. Councilor Farr tweeted this, moments ago:

"Hamont Delta Bingo on OLG e-bingo/e-ticket site list is a #moot point now that Delta has announced it is closing - that from Ec-Dev staff."

Call me skeptical but what would prevent Frisina from quickly lining up another tenant and have that property remain on the list as a site for e-gaming?

CaptainKirk Jan 16, 2014 7:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by movingtohamilton (Post 6409544)
what would prevent Frisina from quickly lining up another tenant and have that property remain on the list as a site for e-gaming?

A good offer, hopefully.

movingtohamilton Jan 16, 2014 8:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainKirk (Post 6409567)
A good offer, hopefully.

So nothing stands in his way. I assume e-gaming in Hamilton is worth $multiple millions in net revenues over a few years. Why not lease the site to a sure thing? :(

thistleclub Jan 16, 2014 8:22 PM

My reading leads me to believe that a bingo hall opening at 45 King East under another name would require little more than paperwork.

Anything is possible at this point, really, including that the business might have already been quietly sold – think of Charles Juravinski selling Flamboro Downs to Magna Entertainment, only with less fanfare – in which case the closure could be a practical matter of redecorating.

mattgrande Jan 16, 2014 8:43 PM

From Graham Crawford on Facebook:

Quote:

I just received an email response (second one today actually) from Councillor Jason Farr saying that because of the opposition to e-bingo machines being put into this location, the building was sold.

There was some discussion about converting it into an e-bingo operation, but Delta's discussions with the City were not encouraging for Delta. There is no current information, or at least none that was shared with me, about what the future plans include.

I want to thank my Councillor for responding so quickly to a very real concern.

SteelTown Jan 16, 2014 9:09 PM

Shoppers at that location would be great, especially now that Shoppers and Loblaws are together. The new Shoppers format includes fresh foods because of that they could probably take the entire main floor.

movingtohamilton Jan 16, 2014 9:14 PM

Mattgrande, we're both following this on FB. It sounds like the current owner bought the building from the Delta Bingo operator and made that operator the lessee. So now we wait to see what plans Frisina has.

Current opinion is that e-gaming is a no-go for this space. Frisina Group doesn't inspire much confidence, having looked at the link thisleclub posted.

SteelTown Jan 16, 2014 9:15 PM

Frisina has a long history in Hamilton. They're the group behind the Main/Queen proposal.

movingtohamilton Jan 16, 2014 9:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown (Post 6409739)
Frisina has a long history in Hamilton. They're the group behind the Main/Queen proposal.

...which was supposed to be completed in Fall 2012. Is there a shovel in the ground yet?

thistleclub Jan 16, 2014 10:09 PM

It's the hot-button issue that council has been mum on for the last year.

OLG Wants to Add Digital Bling to Hamilton’s Bingo Halls
(Hamilton Spectator, Joan Walters, Jan 17 2013)

The Ontario Lottery & Gaming Corp. will meet with city staff Feb. 1 to discuss putting the high-tech devices into at least the Delta Bingo Centre, which appears on the OLG’s list of bingo operators in almost 30 communities interested in the plan.


Blink and you'll miss it: "at least".

movingtohamilton Jan 16, 2014 10:13 PM

So if 45 King East is off the table, what other property would fall under the "at least" category?

thistleclub Jan 16, 2014 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking (Post 6408679)
Damn that article was depressing. :(

FWIW, here are the digital remnants of the award-winning Lament series.

Business Running on Empty (Hamilton Spectator, Fred Vallance-Jones, Mar 17 2001)
Life in the Shadows (Hamilton Spectator, Cheryl Stepan, Mar 19 2001)
Core Crime Linked to Drugs (Hamilton Spectator, Cheryl Stepan, Mar 19 2001)
Rotting in the Core (Hamilton Spectator, Mar 20 2001)
Heavy Tax Load Crushing Core (Hamilton Spectator, Mar 20 2001)
Downtown Tax Relief Involves Tough Choices (Hamilton Spectator, Mar 20 2001)
Don’t Bank on It (Hamilton Spectator, Rick Hughes, Mar 21 2001)
Downtown’s Heartbreak Hotel (Hamilton Spectator, Steve Buist, Mar 21 2001)
Home Builders' Plan Fizzles (Hamilton Spectator, Mar 21 2001)
Sordid Affairs (Hamilton Spectator, Fred Vallance-Jones, Mar 22 2001)
Last Call for Dirty Bars (Hamilton Spectator, Cheryl Stepan, Mar 22 2001)
Profiling Owners (Hamilton Spectator, Mar 22 2001)
Can They Fix It? (Hamilton Spectator, Mar 23, 2001)
Civic Leaders' Forum on Downtown Plans (Hamilton Spectator, Mar 23 2001)
The Crisis Downtown (Hamilton Spectator, Fred Vallance-Jones, Mar 23 2001)
Why the Downtown Matters (Hamilton Spectator, Jon Wells, Mar 24 2001)
Restoring the Core Must Start Now (Hamilton Spectator, Mar 26 2001)

thistleclub Jan 17, 2014 3:27 AM

From the AGCO's Criteria and Procedures for Establishing Bingo Halls:

RE-OPENING A BINGO HALL THAT HAS CLOSED

An applicant wishing to re-open a bingo hall (at the same address) that has ceased operating must submit to the Registrar, within three months of the hall’s closure, a full and complete application form and a viable business plan (including details of the proposed operation) to re-open the hall. The application shall include a letter from the Clerk of the local municipality stating that the municipality has no objection to the applicant re-opening the hall. If the business plan is approved by the Registrar, the hall must open within six months of the date of approval.

If a plan is not submitted within three months, or the bingo hall cannot begin operating within six months from the date of approval, then any application to open a hall at the same location will be considered a new hall application, and must follow the process described in section A above, including advertising the proposal and obtaining approval from the municipal council.




Technically, a re-opened bingo operation would only require a written okay from the City Clerk -- unless the operator fumbles the paperwork or fails to reopen within six months of AGCO approval, in which case the proposed relaunch must be advertised and Council would have to sign off on it.

And that's if the operation actually went out of business.

This would arguably be moot if the business was sold off before the announcement -- which, to be exact, was that "Delta Bingo Hamilton will be closing its doors." It is not impossible to imagine a scenario whereby the "closure" is a temporary time-out to re-brand/re-skin the operation. Given that Council admits to being in the dark about what's coming next, we can't entirely discount the possibility of more of the same under another name.

I mentioned Boardwalk yesterday because its Peterborough venture struck me as an unusual partnership. Delta Bingo Peterborough is co-owned by Michael Orser (President, Boardwalk Gaming & Entertainment) and Cameron Johnstone (President, Delta Bingo) and appears as a location of each company. More than that, Orser is Chair and Johnstone Vice-Chair of the Board of the Commercial Gaming Association of Ontario. As well, one of the companies in the portfolio of Larry Tanenbaum's Kilmer Van Nostrand is Penetanguishene-Huronia Bingo Inc., which has a significant interest in BG&E. That seems like a pretty high-test combination.

Or maybe it's just the perverse appeal of having Boardwalk next door to Park Place.

-

Untangling the ownership timeline, Delta Hamilton/Fort Erie/St. Catharines were listed among the Johnstone-led Delta Bingo locations in Feb 2010 but not in Feb 2011, when Delta Bingo alerted website visitors that:

Information on bingo halls in Hamilton, St. Catharines and Uncle Sams in Fort Erie are no longer available through this web site.
Be advised that these 3 Bingo halls are not affiliated with Delta Bingo Inc. Interested parties please call the hall directly for any inquiries.


Despite this, a Google search of “Uncle Sams Bingo Fort Erie” muddies things again: The top entry belongs to Delta Bingo.

davidcappi Jan 17, 2014 4:31 AM

Ugh seriously though, I really hope it doesn't stay as anything related to bingo.

fizzle Jan 17, 2014 6:13 AM

The happiness about what seemed to be a viable business shutting down, just because it's not something people on this board like, kind of bothers me. And some of the ideas...Shoppers, Walmart, etc., are pretty hilarious.

Clearly, people liked going to the thing. It doesn't exist as long as it did unless that was the case. I get a real sense of elitism reading comments on here sometimes. That only 'certain' types of people and business should be in the 'new' downtown, and anything but organic supermarkets and art galleries cheapens everything.

Did I like Delta Bingo? God no. But it filled a large space downtown and DID being people to the core. And I don't see other big business rushing in during the last 20 years to fill a commercial vacancy like they did.

mattgrande Jan 17, 2014 1:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fizzle (Post 6410514)
Clearly, people liked going to the thing. It doesn't exist as long as it did unless that was the case.

Well... clearly not enough people liked going to it. That's why they're closing, and that's why more than half the area (of the ground floor) wasn't used... it was just open space, with all the tables and chairs crammed at one end.

coalminecanary Jan 17, 2014 2:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fizzle (Post 6410514)
The happiness about what seemed to be a viable business shutting down, just because it's not something people on this board like, kind of bothers me. And some of the ideas...Shoppers, Walmart, etc., are pretty hilarious.

Clearly, people liked going to the thing. It doesn't exist as long as it did unless that was the case. I get a real sense of elitism reading comments on here sometimes. That only 'certain' types of people and business should be in the 'new' downtown, and anything but organic supermarkets and art galleries cheapens everything.

Would you say the same thing about a Money Mart closing? I don't think it's elitist to celebrate the demise of a predatory gaming operation which frankly has no place being located one block from the very core of the city. I'm not sure what's so hilarious about envisioning a large, street facing drug store in the core - a service needed by everyone regardless of age or income bracket... How about an urban home building centre - Rona? That would be just amazing.

movingtohamilton Jan 17, 2014 2:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coalminecanary (Post 6410694)
... How about an urban home building centre - Rona? That would be just amazing.

We definitely do not need more payday loan and cheque-cashing outlets! We need stores already suggested in this thread, especially since residential growth is happening downtown.


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