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-   -   Hamilton's architecture: Lost and forgotten. (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206010)

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 9, 2013 3:53 AM

Hamilton's architecture: Lost and forgotten.
 
OK, so the Most influential Hamiltonian thread didn't inspire much interest. That's OK. How about architecture? I'll post a picture of a long-since-demolished Hamilton building, and we'll see who can name it or at least provide some insight into it. It might be fun and will introduce to many the architectural beauty Hamilton's lost. Depressing? Sure but educational as well.

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 9, 2013 3:55 AM

Building no.1
 
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...psa8950a22.jpg
http://pinterest.com/pin/170855379584650861/

CaptainKirk Jun 9, 2013 11:52 AM

Birk's?

Looking southeast with Gore Park on the left, and James on the right.

Blanchard's pre-confed buildings visible?

Pearlstreet Jun 9, 2013 12:03 PM

I love the horse tie ups. I have seen some around before used in peoples yards. Cool collectable.

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 9, 2013 12:18 PM

^Bingo.

Actually, at the time this photograph was taken (late 1880s perhaps) this building (1883-1972) was serving as the Hamilton headquarters for the Canada Life and Assurance Company.

Birk's purchased the building in the 1920s (I think). In the process of renovating it, a fire broke out in the attic. Unfortunately, that wonderful clock tower you see in the photo had to be replaced. That's when Birk's purchased - or commissioned the building of - the clock that now graces the market.

When word of its impending demolition started to circulate in 1972, people came out in huge numbers protesting this heinous act. People, quite literally, chained themselves to the building. Can't stop progress, right?

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 9, 2013 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pearlstreet (Post 6158480)
I love the horse tie ups. I have seen some around before used in peoples yards. Cool collectable.

Yeah, those hitching posts are amaze-balls. It's a shame they had to go. I don't suppose they had to really but I'm sure people found them antiquated and wanted them gone like so many other beautiful things.

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 9, 2013 12:24 PM

Building no.2
 
More challenging? I think so.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...psbb773a4e.jpg
http://pinterest.com/pin/170855379584650605/

Half points for the approximate location.

CaptainKirk Jun 9, 2013 1:13 PM

My best guess is King St., south side of Gore Park ( on the right of photo.)

Hughson or John maybe? I dunno.

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 9, 2013 2:30 PM

^Yep. South-east corner of King and Hughson. Unfortunately, the picture doesn't offer much in the way of context but you figured it out.

Might give it a few hours to see if anybody has an answer.

thmx Jun 9, 2013 2:44 PM

No. 2 is the Hamilton Provident and Loan Building, 1881-1960. Now it's this:
http://i45.tinypic.com/k37k8j.jpg
Source


Couple more pictures of it:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.n...63297523_n.jpg
Source

(On the right in the image below)
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.n...02099912_n.jpg
Source

Pearlstreet Jun 9, 2013 3:59 PM

Look at the people precariously sitting at the roof and window ledge! How would replacing this building ever be considered? It must have been in shambles. I would love to see a brave builder try to recreate it.

Beedok Jun 9, 2013 4:18 PM

I have nothing against replacing a building when there is a need, however they replaced it with a smaller building. That's just annoying.

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 10, 2013 12:55 AM

^After years of banks splurging on wonderful buildings, they decided they could no longer be bothered to maintain these glorious structures. That and people now fully trusted banks with their money, so it was unnecessary to advertise solidity, trustworthiness and beauty through their architecture. One of our big banks (can't remember which one) purchased the Hamilton Loan and Provident building but wasn't interested in the upkeep. Down she came and up went that sh*t box.

Aside from cost, the sentiment at the time was that old was bad. Beauty, adornment, embellishment, ornamentation, at least in terms of architecture, was also frowned upon. Just look at what replaced it. It was a peculiar socialist architectural movement that resulted in exactly what you see on that corner today. I suppose it's a product of the economic situation at the time taken to extremes. It was a rare moment in history when everybody shared, almost equally, in the wealth we'd worked so hard to create. Steel workers made almost as much as bankers and so on. People felt architecture should reflect that reality. I wasn't alive so I'll never truly understand that level of insanity.

Anyway, this old beauty is long gone and as Pearlstreet suggested, a recreation would be nearly impossible. Cost notwithstanding, I dare say we no longer have the architectural know-how to accomplish such a feat. Where are the Scottish stone masons who carved this beauty out of limestone now? Deader than the craft that crippled them so long ago.

BTW, judging by the pomp and circumstance captured in that first photo, I'm guessing it was taken during a Royal visit of some sort. The telegraph poles, those nice looking bicycles (long gone is the penny farthing!) and the fashion (particularly those straw hats) lend further clues. With that in mind, I'd place the photo at 1901 when the Duke and Duchess of Cornwall and York visited the city. I could very well be wrong, however.

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 10, 2013 1:12 AM

Building no.3
 
Even if you've never seen this building before, you could probably guess what it is. Again, any other info you can offer = bonus points. The scoring thus far:

Captain Kirk => 1.5 pts
Thomas => 1 pt
Pearlstreet => .5 pts for effort
Beedok => -.5 pts for the 'I have nothing against replacing...' comment ;)

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps82c7500a.jpg
http://pinterest.com/pin/170855379584650778/

matt602 Jun 10, 2013 1:38 AM

^The original courthouse at Main and John. It's now this building:

http://www.cardcow.com/images/set211/card00681_fr.jpg

palace1 Jun 10, 2013 2:03 AM

Yes that is the third Wentworth County Courthouse which was built in 1877 and replaced in 1957 with the building now occupied by the McMaster Downtown Centre.
(picures of the 2nd courthouse 1829-1877 can be seen here http://henleyshamilton1.wordpress.co...use-1829-1877/ )


Six portico columns were moved to White Chapel Cemetery and installed in the Temple Gardens section in 1957.
http://i41.tinypic.com/25alpid.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/hu3q52.jpg

The cornerstone is at Westfield Heritage Village:
http://i42.tinypic.com/5e98p1.jpg

Westfield also owns a desk used by the Wentworth County Council which met in the courthouse. It is currently on loan to the Workers' Arts & Heritage Centre.
http://i39.tinypic.com/20hpxt4.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/vym1i.jpg

durandy Jun 10, 2013 3:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce (Post 6158995)
BTW, judging by the pomp and circumstance captured in that first photo, I'm guessing it was taken during a Royal visit of some sort. The telegraph poles, those nice looking bicycles (long gone is the penny farthing!) and the fashion (particularly those straw hats) lend further clues. With that in mind, I'd place the photo at 1901 when the Duke and Duchess of Cornwall and York visited the city. I could very well be wrong, however.

Found this description of the building in a company prospectus for the Hamilton Provident and Loan Society.

The first picture looks a bit later than 1901 to me. The streets are paved for one, which they're not in the earlier horsedrawn pic. It looks like there's an American flag flying in it. The clothes though do look Victorian.

The second picture is incredible, I'm guessing it's from the first world war - the sign says 'buy victory bonds' and there's what looks to be a tank riding over a building.

durandy Jun 10, 2013 3:23 AM

I've never heard of either the courthouse or the providential building. The great thing about Hamilton, we have so much depth in our register of demolished treasures.

mattgrande Jun 10, 2013 12:49 PM

Wow, I've never seen the original courthouse before. It's gorgeous.

Speaking of the Birks Building, Vintage Hamilton posted this about it yesterday:

Quote:

Oscar Wilde, the world famous poet/writer, called Hamilton's Canada Life and Assurance Company Building (The Birks Building) the most beautiful building in North America. It was later demolished.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...7650273&type=1

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 10, 2013 2:40 PM

^Ha ha! I love the succinctness of that comment => 'It was later demolished.' A few things happened in between but whatever.

Some great tidbits about the courthouse. I had no idea those columns were still kickin' around. I'll have to check that out. And yes, as has been pointed out, this was Hamilton's third courthouse. The first was little more than a log cabin. The second was a substantial building and actually quite beautiful in its own right.

A somewhat interesting nugget, the gallows were in behind the courthouse facing onto what was then called Tyburn street - now Jackson. They chose the name Tyburn because it's synonymous with hangings as it was the location where most criminals were executed in the London area. Cooool. It was later changed to Maiden lane perhaps as an homage to the Iron Maiden? Not the band but the medieval torture device. That's probably a stretch...no pun intended.

Unfortunately I sealed away all my history of Hamilton books years ago because they caused me to fall into a deep depression, otherwise I'd be able to offer more in the way of detail. So thanks for filling in the blanks!

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 10, 2013 2:49 PM

Building no.4
 
Another interesting one here. I was blown away when I first saw a photo of this building. Again, like so many others, it was allowed to fall into disrepair and then just slipped away without a word. This isn't much of a clue but the intersection at which it stood no longer exists, nor do any of the buildings. Points for approximate location and function of the building if you're not sure what it is.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps737ff7e4.jpg
http://pinterest.com/pin/170855379584650536/

Beedok Jun 10, 2013 4:30 PM

Was it removed to make Jackson Square?

thmx Jun 10, 2013 4:54 PM

Royal Hotel. It was on Merrick Street before the street was realigned and renamed York Blvd, that's why the intersection no longer exists.



On The Residences of the Royal Connaught Pinterest and Facebook page, they have an interior shot of the Royal Hotel. Whoever is running the page thought that the Royal Hotel was the same hotel as the Royal Connaught hotel.

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 11, 2013 1:27 AM

You're killin' it, Thomas. Nice one. I'd say only the most avid of Hamilton historians know this building. It's rarely ever mentioned in the same breath with the Connaught or the Waldorf or even the King George.

Of note, the Royal was built in 1857 for the astronomical sum of $1,000,000. It was the premier hotel in the city and likely much farther afield - I mean, just look at it! Over the years, however, it feel into disrepair and by the time it burnt to the ground in 1935 it was more of a flop-house than a 5-star hotel.

For those who are unfamiliar with the old street grid, this is roughly what it looked like:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps2b5f4f2d.jpg

Key:
red line = Merrick st
blue = York st
green = Market st
orange = Park st
yellow = MacNab st

Red star = the Royal Hotel
Orange star = the Arcade/ Eaton's
Darker blue = old City Hall
Lighter blue = the farmer's market

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 11, 2013 1:45 AM

Here's a shot of the market ca 1893, about four years after it was built.

For some context, the buildings directly across market square are on Merrick and at the far right is the western edge of the Royal Hotel. The buildings to the left are on MacNab and the photo was taken - roughly - at the confluence of Market and York streets.

The market burned to the ground some years later (1917?) and it was said that a sea of rats could be seen fleeing the flaming structure. Awesome!

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps3a25cb4d.jpg
http://pinterest.com/pin/170855379584650738/

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 11, 2013 1:54 AM

Building no.5
 
This one's still around...kinda.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...psb670f996.jpg
http://henleyshamilton1.wordpress.com/2013/02/

thmx Jun 11, 2013 2:16 AM

Amisfield castle. It's in behind the plaza on the corner of James and Duke Street.

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 11, 2013 11:08 AM

OK Thomas, you're cut off! :superwhip Just kidding. It's nice to see someone who knows their history, depressing though it may be.

Yes, it's the Castle - Amisfield, that is. Most people have probably never noticed it before because it's almost completely obscured by the strip mall at Duke and James.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps9252c133.png

Here are a few others courtesy of Henley's Hamilton (http://henleyshamilton1.wordpress.com/2013/02/):
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps49b7bc1d.jpg
Notice the frontage and the massive stone wall running along James. According to Brian Henley, the City had considered buying the Castle and the property and making it the location of the Art Gallery of Hamilton. Didn't happen...

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps5e5ba996.jpg
Those beautiful grounds destroyed for, you guessed it, a gas station. Are we mad?

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...psa52764e1.jpg
Here it is circa 1980 with the strip mall going up.

I visited the Castle years ago - maybe 15 - to view an apartment. Like so many of Hamilton's once-great estates, Amisfield was turned into a block of flats. Unlike some of the other conversions however, this one was poor. The apartments I saw were nasty - one of them looked like a crack den...whatever that is.

Here's one last 'aerial' (ca early 1860s) likely taken from the escarpment. Amisfield is dead-centre. There are a couple other identifiable buildings in this shot - can you name them?
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...psaeb33abb.jpg

mattgrande Jun 11, 2013 12:20 PM

Dammit! Amisfield Castle was the first one I noticed!

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 11, 2013 12:30 PM

You've gotta be quick with Thomas around. Recognise anything in the above photo?

durandy Jun 11, 2013 1:04 PM

Is that Sandyford place behind it? And to the left I believe is a coachhouse for the Castle that is now a convenience store.

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 11, 2013 3:09 PM

Yep, you got it! That's definitely Sandyford Place. And that's an interesting idea about the coach house. Looking at it, you're probably right about that. The coach house has undergone some alterations over the years but, yeah, there she is.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps8c258e03.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...psc6d71500.png

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 12, 2013 2:46 PM

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...psa0decf9f.jpg

The only other buildings I can positively identify are Central School (1853) which seems to have, incidentally, a massive stone wall around it. Can't quite figure that one out.

And I think the other one (purple arrow) is this building:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps46d28e4f.png

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 12, 2013 2:55 PM

Building no.6
 
For this one I'm gonna need the name of the building and the approximate year the photo was taken (within a decade).
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...psd95b1e1e.jpg
http://henleyshamilton1.wordpress.com/2012/12/

thmx Jun 12, 2013 3:34 PM

Bank of Hamilton Building.

The picture had to be before 1905, because that is the year an 8 story addition was added.

It faced Gore Park on the SW corner of King and James.

Commerce Place now stands in it's place.

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 13, 2013 1:11 AM

Bingo! And good call on the date. I think it was built in 1893 or something close to it and yes, a several floors were added shortly after the previous photo was taken (1899). The following photos courtesy of Henley's Hamilton.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...psaa37adc2.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...psccbb7aa7.jpg

According to Wikipedia, the Bank of Hamilton (founded in 1872) had upwards of 150 branches throughout Ontario and western Canada prior to its 1924 merger with the Imperial Bank of Canada. It was one of the last banks not headquartered in either Toronto or Montreal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_Hamilton

Here's one last view from the top of the bank down into the market area. The arrow marks the MacNab-Market-York intersection adjacent to the farmers' market. Just up MacNab you can see the Coppley building and just west on Merrick and Park is Dunn's (barely visible behind the warehouse at the corner). I'm not sure what function either of those buildings served when this photo was taken. Anyway, not much of that is left today.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps0f6fe2a8.jpg

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 13, 2013 1:25 AM

This next one is not of a single building per se but I wanted to post it anyway. I love all the signage - this street had a very different vibe in 1973 when this photo was taken.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...psbc94d855.jpg

What street?
What occasion?
Which clearly visible buildings are now gone?
Which of those signs still remain?

Pearlstreet Jun 13, 2013 2:14 AM

It would be a walkable and cool idea I think to have some of these pictures mounted on a lamp post or pole in the location of where it was taken years before. New York does this... I remember walking past one of the Twin Towers a year after they came down.... It was so odd reading the tourisim page and see the picture of what was once there.

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 13, 2013 2:26 AM

^Great idea. There's some of that in the West Harbour I believe. Let's do it.

bigguy1231 Jun 13, 2013 7:03 AM

James St. N. at Wilson.

The old Eatons is no longer there and the old Bank of Commerce building just North of that is also gone.

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 13, 2013 8:36 AM

Yes sir, but the location of the photo is a little farther north, perhaps at Mulberry by the Armories.

One of the things that stands out for me, aside from the signage, is the width of the street. Its one-wayedness, the lack of street parking (at least in this photo) and the lack of street trees really emphasize that fact.

It's also quite evident what function James North served in those days. In contrast, when I was growing up the only reason you went to that area was to have an Italian coffee (great novelty at the time) or to watch Juventus play, though I can't imagine why anybody would want to do that. It was pretty rough, it must be said.

Any other observations?
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...psbc94d855.jpg

CaptainKirk Jun 13, 2013 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigguy1231 (Post 6162913)
James St. N. at Wilson.

The old Eatons is no longer there and the old Bank of Commerce building just North of that is also gone.

That traffic light is Cannon, not Wilson.

Orange Hall is Vasco de Gama now, but where was Shamrock Boystown? (other than the address as shown) Morganstern's?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aj6ghhi8RU...orkstonham.jpg

Also, love the LEONS FURS sign that still stands today.

thistleclub Jun 13, 2013 12:07 PM

The '60s highway-style streetlights are gone (along with the electric tramline threaded off them), replaced by more modest antiquey faux-gaslamps that cast a Dickensian glow. Downtown has never had very welcoming lighting.

As in all photos of a certain vintage, the road is immaculate and looks freshly pressed.

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 13, 2013 12:28 PM

^I hadn't noticed the overhead wires. Good eye. And yes, those street lights are poor.

Of all the signs in that photo I think only the Leon Furs and the Pawnbroker ones still exist. I'm a big fans of signs that hang out over the sidewalk like so many in that shot. It's my understanding that they are all but illegal in the city for, you guessed it, liability reasons. F*** off! When was the last time somebody was killed or wounded by a shop sign?

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 13, 2013 1:09 PM

BTW, the occasion in the photo was a funeral procession for the Chief of Police Len Lawrence. Not sure such a thing would happen today. ;)

And that wrestling advert is great. Not sure about 'Shamrock Boystown,' however. Sounds a little disconcerting.

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 13, 2013 1:17 PM

Building no.7
 
Nothing particularly special about this building (1949-89). Quite nice, though - nicer than the pictures indicate. It was built of limestone and red brick. Probably quite handsome in colour. What's its location?

Date unknown - 1950s perhaps
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps935e35b5.jpg

1989 (Being prepared for demolition)
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...psc3d4aeb9.jpg
source

thistleclub Jun 13, 2013 1:45 PM

James North, just south of York/Wilson, around where the City Centre's NE entrance now stands. In the background of the 1989 photo you can see, left to right the original Eatons (which would soon meet the ODRP wrecking ball itself), the eastern wall of the Farmers' Market and what I assume is the eastern wall of the York parkade.

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 13, 2013 3:44 PM

Kaboom! Nicely done. Yes, this bank stood in the same spot as the Royal Hotel - James N and Merrick. The Royal burnt down in '35 and the bank was built in '49 - gonna assume there was nothing else in between.

Dr Awesomesauce Jun 13, 2013 3:54 PM

Speaking of the parkade, if you've ever wondered what stood on that site prior to the building of that architectural masterpiece, here it is:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps4573645f.jpg
source

That's the Hotel Stroud/ Waldorf and the Savoy theatre to the right. Notice the Coppley building, as always, laying claim to that corner.

bigguy1231 Jun 13, 2013 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainKirk (Post 6162970)
That traffic light is Cannon, not Wilson.

Orange Hall is Vasco de Gama now, but where was Shamrock Boystown? (other than the address as shown) Morganstern's?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-aj6ghhi8RU...orkstonham.jpg

Also, love the LEONS FURS sign that still stands today.

Yes, Wilson is closer to Eaton's, it was late when I was looking at it.


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