Development Concepts and Ideas
 

This Thread is for Concepts and Ideas that you think will fit well in St. John's (Ideas seen from other cities and around the world)

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4041/4...474a4196_z.jpg

I lived in Viña del MAr, Chile for a little while and I lived in an area with architecture which I thought would be good for St. John's especially because it is highrise/ older style

here are some examples:

The one on the left is an office building and the one on the right is residential connected by retail/a bank branch
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...08254985_n.jpg

:previous:

You're right. I can absolutely envision something like that downtown.

I think something like Chateau Frontenac in Quebec City would look nice in downtown St. John's. Albeit, not as grandiose, but something with similar architecture. I always liked Quebec city's architecture, such a good blend of old and new - it has a very charming appeal.

http://www.quebeccityhotelsonline.co...uebec-City.jpg

Source: http://www.quebeccityhotelsonline.co...uebec-City.jpg

:previous: I agree, and I think the Ideal place to put it is where the battery hotel is now, The only thing is that people may not want it to upstage the signal hill look, however I think it could be done in a way that it would compliment the whole signal hill dramatic look "over looking the city"

Something such as the one in Quebec city or even like this one in Saskatoon (same style of architecture)

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2...summer2005.jpg
Source

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/6...dwaywinter.jpg
Source[/QUOTE]

I'd love to see something done with the Battery Hotel. My understanding is that the place is a dump, although I must admit I've never stayed there. It would definitely be a prime location for a very unique and recognizable hotel development for St. John's.

One of the problems with this city is the desire by the majority to maintain the old and falling down buildings because they have some sort of historic value. While I'm all for history and culture when appropriate, you can't save everything. The Battery is a location that people may get up in arms about. None the less, what a spectacular location for the kind of development you folks are suggesting.

Is the Battery Hotel the big white one? Because yeah, it has no place on that hill. That would be a great location for a chateau-style hotel, but I doubt anything like that would get built anymore (anywhere).

^Yeah it's that unfortunate building. I love those Quebec City styled chateau's, they'd fit in with the character of downtown pretty well. I'd assume the cost of actually styling a building like so is quite large.

^ It would be hard to build someting of that style without it looking somewhat fake. Modern interpretations usually don't look that great.

My ideas and concepts for St. John's would involve redefining what is allowed and acceptable in the city core, mainly some of the areas that date from the 1950's and before. The city core (outside the heritage areas) is what needs to be densified and revitalized and not just the peripheries. New developments don't necessarily have to be super tall, but just enough to make the city more efficient by adding density.

'Le Chateau' has greatly contributed to Canadian architecture, which is particularly prevalent in Western Canada with their railway Chateau hotels -- although hypothetically this building style may be used for residential and commercial means also.

You are correct is stating that modern interpretations of older buildings can turn out poorly and this is why many dislike the idea of faux-Victorian and faux-Georgian attempts. This is why many approve a more modern, contemporary approach to this older building style....

This is Chateau Moncton, a hotel along the riverfront of the Petitcodiac River:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...auMoncton1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...eauMoncton.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...Riverfront.jpg

The red and white, though your developer may choose whichever contrasts appropriate, would fit nicely into St. John's colourful skyline, embrace the past, while using present construction materials.

I love the look of the Grand Floridian Resort at Disney World. I think this would look pretty nice up where the current Battery Hotel is now. The Battery Hotel should be "The" place to stay in St. John's. Unfortunately it's the probably the worst which is sad.


http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...10313526_n.jpg

Photo: http://www.ratestogo.com/blog/expens...ney-vacations/

Reminds me of Three Valley Gap.

The Battery Hotel is unfortunate. It undoubtedly has the BEST view of the city/harbour, and should be a five star hotel. But I've stayed there, and that place needs a serious overhaul, almost to the point of being torn down and started over. The envisioned "The Rock" hotel was even more ugly, thankfully that never made it too far.

Here is in idea I've had from walking the harbour front frequently. Maybe a bit far fetched but thought I would throw it out there for discussion since this seems like the proper place for ideas like this.

Wouldn't it be cool if we could move all industrial activity away from St. John's Harbour and relocate it somewhere else nearby? Think about what we could do with the harbour front if there wasn't a steady stream of container ships and offshore supply vessels? Shops, restaurants, parks, etc. Harbourside park is nice but wouldn't it be nice if it could be expanded to take over all or part of the land that is currently occupied by Harveys.

It's unrealistic, but would be amazing. I personally think if amalgamation would happen, all industrial activities could be moved to Conception Bay South. The harbour is huge, and there'd be plenty of space to expand the port, much to the size of Halifax. That'd open up St. John's harbour up more for tourists. I'm still a huge advocate for Duckworth and Water being one way only, and completely getting rid of Harbour drive and turning it in to green space.

I had heard a year ago, and supposedly things are still happening with this, that a group was going to invest in the Placemtia harbour and that would take all the industrial activity out of St. John's.

Getting rid of Harbour Drive would be nice. And yeah, I would then have a green space/pedestrian mall, but have the harbour side lined with cafes, restaurants, bars, shops, etc.

Here is a proposal from Toronto.

:previous:

I feel like something along the lines of that proposal would be a realistic way to develop some of downtown without tearing down the buildings that have so much historic meaning to so many people.

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...63742838_n.jpg

Avalon Mall is in dire need of a modern day refit. The mall has been there since 1967 and some of the original exterior cladding is still there like that ugly old stone facade on front of Sears. The mall always makes me feel like I am walking through the Path or subway underground mall in Toronto, even with the few skylights they have, it's still pretty dreary there most times. They should go up a floor or two all the way down to where Sears is and put a huge glass dome in like in the photo and make the storefronts similar to some of the old merchant buildings on Water Street like what is done in the West Edmonton Mall in the pic. They need to do something if they want to stay competitive with all the new big box parks going up and expanding.

The photo is from
http://www.caccn.ca/en/events/dynami...formation.html

Oops, apologies guys. I think I may have put this in the wrong thread again.

Perhaps I just haven't noticed, but Avalon doesn't seem that out of date to me. Compare it to some small town malls (Swift Current or Yorkton, SK; Vernon, BC) and you truly step back in time.

Avalon is small, and there is certainly nothing that stands out (like the glass ceiling at Calgary's Core), but it's a standard mall.

I would like to see something like the Trillium in Halifax.
Or at least a high-rise condo/ apartment.

http://www.pbase.com/image/98111290/original.jpg

I'm a big fan of the Trillium, but I feel that's exactly the type of development that people would be up in arms about if it were to go in downtown. For one, I'm quite sure its too tall. Secondly, I feel there would be resistance to the modern look in "historic downtown".

Its a shame really. I think a few buildings like that could really add to downtown, but there is just so much opposition in the city. With new buildings like the new Fortis and Deacon office buildings going up on the southwest side of the harbour, that area may be in position to become a little more modern. Meanwhile, the view of the classic St. John's waterfront could maintain its historic charm.

Agreed, but a building like the Trillium would not have to be downtown (it's not actually in downtown Halifax), just somewhere not too far from downtown. For me, the Trillium did not turn out quite as good as I expected (looks a little too busy and awkward), but maybe it looks better in person.

I do think something like that would be great downtown though. My favourite cities have a nice mix of historic and modern (London, Copenhagen, NYC, etc).

It really drives me nuts that people are so against anything modern being built downtown.

I always thought the east end of Elizabeth Ave. where the provincial govt has an office tower now would be a good place to have more office towers instead of downtown where it's always a battle to get them built. Plus, Elizabeth Ave would not be in the heritage area. Though any other tower on on Elizabeth Ave would also block someones view of Cabot Tower which seems to be the issue each time a hotel or office tower proposal comes up in this city.

Hey guys, if someone were to build a new mall, what do you think would be an ideal location and what features do you think would be good for it/ to help make it successful??

I think in the east end near Stavanger could be a good location due tot he shopper traffic that already exists :hmmm:

New southlands development. Pretty central location for access from most of the region and close to existing major highways (TCH and Route 2) and the new Route 3 extention, when completed.

If anyone were to build a new enclosed mall, Southlands would probably be the best area as its near all the highways leading into the city. They would also need to think of future expansion too if it were successful, so having an abundance of land for future expansion and parking would be smart too. I think that's the problem with Avalon Mall now. It keeps wanting to expand but has to take parking spaces to do that. They should really look into the feasibility of putting a second floor over the original Mall section that was built in the late 1960's.

The village mall also has a lot of room for expansion. When was the last time you ever saw that back parking lot even near full.

There are a lot of strange, unreasonable opinions about urban development that have cropped up over the last few decades of suburban sprawl and underinvestment in cities. A lot of people just don't think about it much and aren't really aware of the modern possibilities out there. They know they like some old buildings and don't like some of the "new" (1980's or earlier) buildings and that is about it.

Has St. John's had many planning exercises that focus on the benefits of density and good urban design? Does the local media talk about these things?

I think the Trillium is okay but it could have been much nicer with a simpler design. The development next door has more of a lowrise scale that is closer to existing buildings in St. John's. I don't think this design is perfect by any stretch but it is an improvement over the parking lot that is there right now: http://www.thesistersites.ca/

The coloured balconies are interesting because to some degree they are tied to a local vernacular style (colourful wooden houses) but are not an overly literal interpretation. It's usually much better to build a modern building that re-interprets some interesting local features than it is to mimic old building styles. The old styles were designed for particular materials, skills, and scales. A design done in stone for a three storey commercial building will look ridiculous when reinterpreted in foam and plastic for a larger condo building.

With the upcoming municipal development plan update there have been a few meetings and brain-storming sessions among residents about the St. John's of the future and how they in vision it. There is a sizable group of people (though I'm not sure anyone from this forum have been involved) that have mentioned density as being a key issue currently in the city, or more along the lines of a complete lack of density. On the other hand, there is a complete separate group of people who feel like increasing density in and around the downtown core will destroy its historic character. Many people who live downtown completely forget about the fact that they live in a mixed commercial, financial, and residential area. Hence any attempt to add density to one specific neighborhood, especially downtown, is often met with complete outrage. Instead we're left with a sprawling city that's on the verge of collapsing on itself. The media doesn't mention much about positive urban development, and often negatively criticizes high density downtown developments (check out CBC Newfoundland videos about The Hilton Garden Inn proposal for such an example).

The only neighborhood/area within a reasonable distance from downtown which I would consider high density (besides New Gower at Barters) would be Margarets Place, and given how it's nowhere near any street that would be able to handle the amount of traffic in that area I'd even go as far to say that was a mistake in its own. At least downtown there's close proximity to the highway.

Bell Island
 

http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?...3718&popular=1

Looks like the idea of a fixed structure to Bell Island has come up again. Personally, I am all for it. Bell Island is right in the middle of a very fast growing area and is just a few minutes away from St. John's. If access to the Island was made more efficient, I believe development there would start to pick up pace. I think it would be a good opportunity for the first suspension bridge in the province. A tunnel would also be cool but seems that would be more expensive.

A cost/benefit analysis would good to see considering the cost of a bridge vs. the cost of replacing the ferry. I think some cost savings could definitely be acheived by eliminating the ferries and associated fuel/upkeep costs that come with them.

Thoughts?

I think these areas in Mount Pearl could be Ideal for mix use development as well as highrise residential mixed... especially the large secion on the hill could be planned and some cool effects due tot he slope of the land :)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...57343698_n.jpg

:previous: Jeddy, we do think alike. I've said before and totally agree that Mount Pearl can start developing up seeing they're running out of space. There are areas of Mount Pearl that are close to amenities and main roadways, it seems logical to develop condos; although, from a developers perspective I'm not sure what the demand would be. In addition, it'd be nice to see some condo towers in that area - create density and eye catching!

Mount Pearl already has a population density almost twice that of St. John's. And they do well with municipal services. We should market this as another way to show up St. John's, then council might put Canada's tallest buildings there, ha!

If you look at future developmwnt patterns, Mount Peal will probably become like a secont metro centre... because look at the positioning .. and DT is definatly not in the centre... if Mount Pearl is smart in the next few years they should put a plan in place for their city and Topsail road in particular especially with the new highway so close .. could be something to keep out eyes on ;)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...13923439_n.jpg

Somebody should do a render of what the waterfront would look like if the fortis 15-story glass box-fortis building retrofit and the hotel on top of atlantic place went ahead!

it would be really intersting to see the impact those projects would have had on our skyline! So if anybody is a good photoshopper with some spare time on their hands I have a job for you :D

EDIT- Did some snooping and found out Architype already did a render of the withdrawn fortis proposal

http://www.pbase.com/image/122788504/original.jpg

I actually really liked this proposal. If only the location was further west, or if they could have kept the buildings on water street. Oh well, I guess i'm a little late to the party. that debate is long over xD

I didn't mind that proposal either - but I would have preferred it as a Cabot Complex reclad than a new project.

I think it was an OK proposal ... at the time I loved it because it was the first bit of action in like decades lol ... however looking at it now it looks like it could have been from the 80s or cheapish looking .. especially compared to the quality of proposals that we have now

Also at 15floors being the size it would have been it looks very bulky and like a huge glass box ... now if you squeezed it in and went up to like 20-23 floors and did it in the style of Fortis Place ... now that would be a sexy building!

Another concept proposal that is quite interesting is the one for the Battery Hotel site.
It includes a 10 storey condo, 7 storey hotel, and 6 storey office building, apartments etc..



The rest of the renders can be found here.

Source: http://www.ekistics.net/work/CE/5.html

I think we were discussing this proposal a while back. I really like this one as well. But whether its this or just another hotel, I don't care. I think we all agree on one thing. Sometime over the next 10 years, the battery hotel has to go. It is disgusting both on the outside, and even more so on the inside. What a waste of the million dollar view.

Read the reviews on any website, or just talk to someone who's been there and there's your proof that its got to go or be gutted completely, and re-clad. My guess is that it would be much more profitable to push the battery hotel off the hill into the Harbor and start anew. A nice complex like that proposal, or even a hotel is welcome but the current battery hotel has got to go.

:previous: Yup, I completely agree with you here.

I would like to see a Modern , Unique High-rise Condo something like the Altro Vetro In Dublin, Ireland. The building measurements are Only: 21M by 8M
It stands at a height of: 50.6m

http://www.viewpictures.co.uk/ImageT...wer_showin.jpg

Link:http://www.viewpictures.co.uk/Detail...76413&TypeID=1

http://www.firepro.ie/img/projects/alto_vetro.jpg

http://www.jharchitecture.ie/wp-cont...lto-Vetro1.jpg

:previous: OMG hahahah talk about skinny

yeah I'd like to see some things like that well that would be good for the steel hotel site (prob be a bit thicker LOL) but still I like the more narrow and tall buildings .. however parking would be the bummer if this were to be built DT ... in other areas of the city it'd be cool too :)

:previous: That is a nice looking building; although, I would prefer something a little more wider, nonetheless great find Cody! Its narrowness does gives it an illusion of being much taller. I'm not sure how well received this would be if it were proposed for downtown (I'm thinking a lot of opposition). I could definitely see it being located around the Tiffany condos area, or maybe in Mount Pearl, if the city ever decides to build up.

Nice building. It looks a lot taller than it actually is, but in reality it'd be comparative to all the other buildings downtown.

^ Interesting building.

Please credit the source for posting pictures (post the link to the page), according to forum rules.

I could only find one of the links :/
But thanks I will be sure to post all links next time :)