Halifax Stadium Location
 

3 developers offer land for Halifax stadium
CBC News Posted: Sep 16, 2011 7:50 PM AT
Last Updated: Sep 16, 2011 9:19 PM AT

Halifax Regional Council has started looking around for a place to build a stadium, and three private bidders offered up some land for sale to the city this week.

Two of them are old quarries.

Parkdale Developments wants to sell the city 50 hectares of land along Highway 102 next to the Halifax Stanfield International Airport, and the group that owns Dartmouth Crossing is offering a similar sized lot near its shopping village.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/09/16/ns-stadium-sites.html

I voted Dartmouth Crossing due to its great highway connections and nearby restraunts and entertainment.

The airport location is just way too far to travel to from the city, and Shannon Park is too open to the elements. Though I think if you were to ask residents outside HRM where they would like to see a stadium built, most would say the airport location as its more central to them.

:previous:

No, I voted for DC too. The airport would not be convenient for people coming from the valley or from the city. On the other hand, it's not that much farther inbound for people driving from Truro, New Glasgow (or Moncton) to go to DC.

DC is a good compromise. The airport on the other hand would be inconvenient for most urban Haligonians.

The airport location may have been a good candidate if the airport BRT was operating; but even then it still would be a huge challenge. I also prefer to see the stadium located on a site where there is municipal water/sewer; whereas the airport has it's own well system and septic trucking (as I understand it).

I would have voted for Shannon park; but the feds don't seem to have put it forward. I could see Shannon with a stadium and it would've been interesting - but if it doesn't, then it just means more room for residential mixed use development.

DC is probably the best location of those put forward. It has challenges, but most sites do. We'll see how it goes...

Shannon Park has to many development opportunities to be used as a stadium site. I agree that it is better suited for mixed residential. The only downside to Dartmouth Crossing is losing the appeal of a downtown stadium and all the ambiance that brings. Outside of that it has plenty of land for onsite parking, good access to offsite parking, decent transportation options and plenty of local restaurants for pre-game/post-game celebrations. I believe that it is the best overall option so far and it is good to know that it is available for purchase. I can't wait to see something happen.

I voted for Dartmouth Crossing.

I've been in favor of many locations, but now that DC is being offered up by the owners that puts it into a path of least resistance. With the sunken bowl idea, I think for an outdoor stadium it will give fans the best weather conditions in Halifax. Also there is a couple hotels with in short distance like the Hampton Inn, and there is suppose to be another hotel built near the new Tim's in DC (Homewood Suites by Hilton I believe).

If Dartmouth Crossing is chosen I would be fine with that. I can't wait for all the folks to come out and suddenly complain that it wasn't built downtown. What about the downtown business' they'll say? It's too far to walk or bike. People will complain enough that they didn't want in their neighbourhood but once it's built somewhere else they are sore losers because they missed the benefits.

Is there actually much overlap between these two groups? I would suspect not.

Transit to Dartmouth crossing is horrible, even worse if your comming from Halifax, you cant even get there from the bridge terminal

pedestrian access to get there is also horrible
fix these things and Dartmouth Crossing can have my vote .

I am not sure if the Dartmouth Crossing site will be the best location (maybe or maybe not, it will be good to see a longer list including publicly owned sites). I wonder how much it will cost to prepare the Dartmouth Crossings quarry site? The Dartmouth Crossings' developers would be able to provide a good estimate on site preparation for a sunken bowl stadium.

The Los Angeles Dodgers Stadium was built on uneven terrain. I posted an image taken 50 years (source: the original story is from 1961 http://gdrinnan.blogspot.com/2011/05/in-1961-jim-murray-first-appeared-in.html )
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fL9nM7knBeU/Td...U/hKd1KrPNX68/s320/1962DodgerStadium.jpg

I'll jump the gun! This kind of civic structure really should have an urban location. I can't think of anything less inspiring then putting a stadium out by a highway offramp in "anywhere North America." Besides the obvious atmosphere of building in the city, a suburban location comes with image problems. If successful, a new Halifax stadium would potentially have several televised events a year (a CFL team would mean many more). In all sports broadcasts, you get those shots of the exterior before of after commercial breaks etc. Do we really want Halifax's image to the rest of the country to be Dartmouth Crossing's parking lots or the woods by the Airport? Shannon Park offers a way better location in terms of branding. It's also within the urban core and would allow a derelict site to get reused. I'm sure the feds would be willing.

SP would offer a much better image shot; but Edmonton and Calgary are not really well located either. Calgary's stadium is located in the university; so the shot isn't too bad because you can see the campus and Crowchild Trail. But Edmonton, all you see is the parking lots, adjacent development and the downtown a ways away.

The only places I can think of that would have a good downtown shot for sure is Vancouver and Toronto. I don't know enough about Edmonton and Hamilton to say for sure.

DC does have bad transit access; for now. But if a stadium is built; there will likely be a lot of money put into road access improvements and I would hope into transit options to get there. I think I mentioned this idea with the concept I had for SP: a series of express bus style routes from the major transit terminals to the stadium and back. Edmonton's stadium has that setup with designated parking very close by. So you could have a BRT route system with route from Lacewood/Bayers Road; Bedford/Sackville, Downtown Halifax, Bridge Terminal and other parts of Dartmouth all to the stadium with very few stops. Then do the reverse on the way back. My hope would be that the cost of transit (whether people wanted to use it or not) would be incorporated into the event ticket.

To be fair beggars can't be choosers. I'd be content with a stadium in DC no problem. And no offence guys but I doubt many people care about how a stadium looks like being part of a skyline. If it was built in SP any view of the stadium would have that power plant in the background!

I still think that the best location is Windmill @ Victoria in Burnside (former steel factory). It has great connections to most of HRM and getting there from Truro or the Valley is easy. Transit connections are decent and could be better with little effort, and its not downtown but its still in town. Also there is no residents nearby to complain.

I exported a terrain map of Shannon Park from the Google SketchUp program. I also posted the identical terrain map in shaded mode in order to show a better contrast (below). Shannon Park appears to be in a bit of a gully, and is protected on the north/northwest side by the elevated bridge approach. It is also protected on the east/southeast side by elevated terrain.

I also looked up a reference to the prevailing winds for Nova Scotia which states: (source: http://museum.gov.ns.ca/mnh/nature/nhns/t5/t5-2.pdf)

PS: Can anyone provide more detailed information on the prevailing winds throughout the summer/fall months? (a monthly graph of wind data would be great)


I think that if there is a clear understanding of the wind patterns at the Shannon Park location during the summer and fall months, then the stadium architects could design the stadium so that it has shelter from the prevailing winds. For example, instead of having the stadium open towards the harbour (facing the southern prevailing winds during the summer), have it closed on the southern side to shelter spectators from southeast and southern winds. In addition, a dirt berm and trees would provide a good wind break from the prevailing southern winds.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8349/shannonparkterrain.jpg
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/8017/shannonparkterrainshade.jpg

I prefer a location as close to the urban core as possible. So I personally prefer Shannon Park (unless an even more central location is available).

I know theres quite a bit of vacant land near the Macdonald bridge on the Dartmouth side

Im not sure who owns it or anything but its worth a look .

Where ever it goes, they should look at Empire Stadium in Vancouver, the temporary one they built for this year while BC Place is closed. It may not be much in ways of aesthetics, but it was cheap!

I am sure some of the design innovation could help there to keep the cost down, as long as the city doesn't go on monument building and scope creeping.

I keep flip flopping on the stadium location; I have two preferences. But I have to keep reminding myself; this is the city's first stadium. 20 years from now, there may be more than one...

Shannon is an difficult cookie to chew on. The feds haven't offered up the land and no one knows if they will. I have a feeling they won't, since Canada Lands has been silent through this process. If that's the case, we can dream about it being there all we want...it won't happen.

Fenwick's graphic does make a good point that the wind issues can be fixed by adding development of a certain height at strategic locations to reduce the impact of wind and fog. I felt that the CG design really didn't think about using the site as a mix of uses and just focused on the stadium. They could've had a really nice mixed use community on the shoreline edge to create a boardwalk - thus creating a mechanism to reduce the impact of wind and fog (make the buildings taller or orient them in such a way to reduce wind).

I was doing some sketching last night (to take my mind off the air canada strike, since I'm 'flying' to Halifax on Friday with AC - hopefully) and I did a preliminary zoning and road sketch of what I was talking about for putting more restaurants close by. Yes, there are a few 'across the street' - but that's a big road to cross. A ped bridge would be necessary and people aren't likely going to walk there and back to the stadium if the route isn't too friendly. Which is why I was thinking that adjacent to the stadium site you could put up a couple restaurants, in addition to the sea of parking that will likely occur.

What are they dooing with the temporary one when BC Place is open agian?

Maybe Halifax could buy it - who knows?

Just did a check today and over the last couple of days of afternoon temperatures around HRM with Environment Canada and Nova Scotia Transportation and Infrastructure renewal cameras http://www.gov.ns.ca/tran/cameras/.

The Portabello station was up to 25 degrees celcius today which was the hottest I could find around and is only 2 miles north of the Dartmouth Crossing Quarry.
http://www.gov.ns.ca/tran/webcam/secure/images/rwis_cam/Portobello_1.jpg

I think if the Dartmouth Crossing site is chosen that it will always be a plus that it has a warm climate.

Then people will be able to complain, "It's TOO HOT !!!!!" ;)

I hate to be negative ...... but I really don't think any site outside of the urban core will be a success and I grew up my whole life in dartmouth. Does anyone here remember a minor pro soccer team based in dartmouth???? If no that is most likely because you never crossed the water to see them play(or were too young) or when the halifax exports breifly moved accross the bay also not a success.........And what about the Montreal Expos(my favorite team) part of their demisse was the fact they couldn't get a stadium closer to the downtown and good transit and soon moved to washington.

I think for the first little bit a stadium anywhere in HRM would draw, but after the novelty wore off people will become more reluctant to travel further out to the "burbs" to see events. This has happened more than a few times through-out North America I assume.

I hope to see a stadium built, and any step in that direction is great, it is just my opinion that for long term sustainability it needs to be a central locale.

my vote : other

I agree. I think it is yet another decision based on short term concerns (save a few million dollars, perhaps avoid upsetting some NIMBYs) that could end up being less than ideal. A suburban location might not be a disaster but it won't have the same atmosphere and it won't build on existing attractions the way a more central stadium would. The best cities have lots of amenities concentrated in a small area. Halifax is so small that if it gets too spread out it really won't have much to offer.

I strongly agree as well.

I'm becoming very nervous that a location in the suburbs will be chosen--and we will lose all developmental spin-offs since the FIXED density in such an area is far, far too low.

All those one-floor box stores; all those parking lots...

No walking traffic, even from Dartmouth suburbian residents.

Vehicle-access only.

People are kidding themselves if they think that piss-poor towns, such as Truro (15,000 people), are going to strongly aid in the regular attendance of this stadium.

And does absolutely anyone here truly believe that HRM would fork over even MORE funds to improve DC's transit, in order to further guarantee that people from the peninsula and Halifax West would regularly attend?

... I think it's safe to say: ha. no.

Something to consider: people often think of Moncton as a sprawled mess--but even Moncton put their stadium in Moncton. Their stadium is located so that it is fed by UdeM students and the immediate surrounding residential areas.

Halifax has so many universities that would constantly feed a new stadium. WHHHhyyyyy aren't we using this over-looked resource?!?!?!

Stadium location for the Expos was a problem but Olympic Stadium actually has pretty good transit with two métro stations serving it. Never had a problem getting in and out of there.

Here is a link to a Shannon Park Street View image - Google Street View. I think that the church in the image is one that DND has put tenders out to demolish. Does anyone know the situation for the adjacent school (is closing it being considered?). It appears to me that a sheltered location could be found in this area (or artificially make it sheltered with dirt berms and trees).

Since I have recently been to the Toronto Rogers Centre and Toronto BMO Field, I can make the following observations:
1) The Rogers Centre has all public transit options and is probably the best location from the public transit perspective, but it is not a pleasant place to drive a car to (being in downtown Toronto, driving is nerve-wrecking).
2) BMO Field has lots of adjacent parking spaces and is much easier to drive to (it is directly adjacent to the Lakeshore Blvd which is easily accessed from The Gardiner Expressway). It also has very good public transit options, although not as good as the Rogers Centre).

From a vehicular transit perspective, the BMO Field location is much better. It is also in a central location and has good public transit. It is somewhat analogous to Shannon Park, in my opinion (the possibility of plentiful parking spaces, a fairly easy drive, good public transit, and relatively close to the central core).

Also since Shannon Park is currently quite desolate and run down, a very economical stadium could be put there without being overly concerned with the stadium appearance. It could be built quickly and cheaply.

As much as Wanderers Grounds is the most ideal location, IMO. The Forum lands would be just as opportune. The area is on a hill, so a sunken bowl design would fit, as well as being within striking distance to the MacKay, Bayers Rd. and still a 20 min walk from the edge of DT.

Is the whole block city owned?

DC, is not a very good option. The car-mall, which is what it is because it deffinately is not for people, will just be a frustrating event getting out. It will as bad as getting out of a Senetors game. We waited on average almost 30 mins just to get out of the parking lot in the shuttles.

The 'burbs won't cut it, and with the Province, and councillors talking about the business case, imagine then how much a brand new ferry terminal would cost for Shannon park, not to mention remediation.

We are a pretty compact city, so we need to start thinking like other cities with the same advantages our size brings.

I think residents of Truro would take umbrage to the characterization of their town as piss-poor. Also, the CA population of Truro is listed as being around 45,000.

Another thing, you shouldn't discount out of town support for any potential Halifax based CFL team. It goes back to the argument about whether it is going to be a Halifax team or a Maritime franchise. This is an important point.... I would think you would want to encourage regional support and make the unwashed from elsewhere in the Maritimes feel welcomed. :)

The Moncton Stadium is not really downtown. It's north of Hall's Creek on the U de M campus, which makes it out-of-the-way as far as I'm concerned. Parking is a very large issue with our stadium and they have to use shuttle busses for special events like the upcoming CFL game. The fact that the stadium is on the university campus is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

This sums up my concern pretty well. Yes, there may be some restaurants near by the DC site - but would you really feel safe crossing a 6 lane street to get to them?

If you think about how you would get people to and from the site - the savings in cost will be minimal mainly because of the road and infrastructure improvements necessary. At minimum I'd suggest a pedestrian bridge over that wonderful 6 lane roadway into DC so pedestrians that want to actually go to the restaurants in DC aren't taking their lives in their own hands.

The idea that I had was that a small area of land beside the stadium could be rezoned for restaurants, thus it wouldn't be so far to go. But I don't think anyone seems to be thinking beyond the cost of the stadium. Yes, the structure will cost whatever it does, but what about the road system - has that been factored in?

It would be no different though for Shannon. A re-work of the road system would be required and you'd still have the same problem of little to no restaurants near by either.

Yep, there's probably a shitty Boston Pizza or whatever that you'll have to spend 30 minutes getting to because the area will be gridlocked post-game despite claims that a location next to a highway solves the traffic problem.

One big company has a monopoly on the land nearby and tends to sell it off to bland national or multinational companies with no particular attachment to Halifax. The area will be devoid of culture or interest for the foreseeable future and will be discarded whenever it's deemed marginally unprofitable by somebody in Toronto or wherever, which is probably going to happen if gas prices double or triple (again).

This is the most palatable solution and yet it results in a slog of hundreds of meters through one of the least interesting environments imaginable. Meanwhile within similar distances downtown there's way more of everything, including parking spots and traffic lanes.

I don't like Shannon much either. A ferry at least could work there and would be kind of interesting, though in practice that might be bungled by the city. Mostly I like the idea of Shannon Park because it's not way out in the suburbs. I'd prefer a location around the Commons, maybe something by the Seawall, around Young Street, or on that big field by Robie Street/SMU. I think it would be better to wait a few years for a stadium on a good location than to put out in a marginal suburban location for the sake of FIFA.

The only consolation here I guess is that I don't really care about the stadium itself that much. And I live in a city that correctly built a stadium downtown right next to rapid transit.

Each site presents interesting challenges and opportunities.

DC presents the challenge of the access road system and servicing event participants by transit and for entertainment. Getting across that 6 lane road is the first major issue, then there is getting some commercial near by the stadium and a road design that isn't a parking lot during events or a challenge for people going to DC for the shops versus stadium events. I don't see transit for a DC stadium (or even another site) as being so much of a challenge mainly because you could establish a series of BRTs from different locations that have 1 or 2 stops before going straight to the stadium. That's fine and could be included in the event ticket - good pre-planning on the part of any team.

Shannon would be a whole new ball game in the sense that not only could you build a stadium but you could build a whole new community, from the ground up. So not only would you need to deal with road access and getting over the railway crossing - but also sewage capacity, storm water run off, design of the roads system and what kind of community would you have (mixed use, high density residential, etc.). Transit would be a different challenge because not only would you need to think about a road system, but you have the opportunity of a high speed ferry link (which obvious DC doesn't). The opportunity for SP is greater (in my mind) because even with a stadium, you could promote the use of the parking areas as a transit station during the weekdays, when nothing typically happens at the stadium. I can't quite see the same concept for DC when you have Mic Mac station so close by. But that might change if DC gets a stadium because I read that there was some discussion of moving the Burnside Bus station to this location, so then it might be workable to move the whole thing here?

I have to admit I haven't read the articles about the bids - what are the other two locations that came up?

And?..

No. 45,000 is out of context. We are talking about the town of Truro--not the surrounding villages--and certainly not the virtual total of Colchester County.

I'm not discounting. I'm taking regular attendance into consideration. Placing a stadium in a suburb of Halifax vs. the peninsula is not going to affect out-of-Halifax visitors. If they are going to drive for a couple hours, they will drive all the way to the peninsula. This is an argument about the ease of access for the stadium's most likely attendees and economic beneficiaries: Haligonians.

Irrelevant!? You don't believe a CFL stadium appeals to a younger audience the most? That's absurd. Or maybe SMU is just being silly...

And since when is UdeM considered to be in the Moncton suburbs? The campus is a 20 walk to the city's downtown (though, not a pleasant walk since many of the roads don't have suitable sidewalks).

I don't even think Halifax would build a CFL stadium downtown -- but Moncton has at least provided some economic certainty for their stadium with its placement. And to be realistic, even if Moncton built a stadium in its downtown there would still be challenges since the entire municipality is a prime example of sprawl. Density is nearly non-existent. It does not have a walkable downtown like Halifax does. A clear example of this is in how Dieppe just installed sidewalks in one of its busiest area: Paul Street; Champlain Place/Mall.

Moncton is vehicle first, walking second--so of course they have to shuttle people to their stadium.

The mention of a potential ferry for a Shannon stadium always makes me shake my head. Where would the ferry take you? I can think of only 3 possible destinations: downtown Halifax, Woodside, or Bedford, if a terminal is built. So you would take a ferry to either a place where nobody lives, or to a place where you parked your car. And each ride could only carry a couple of hundred people. Hardly seems useful.

Well when I talk about a ferry from SP; I'm talking in a broader sense of not just for the stadium. The regional plan identified SP as a opportunity site and there was policy in the RP that talked about redeveloping SP to be mixed use and that transportation connections to the downtown should be considered. That's how Metro Transit ended up with the idea of a ferry from there and put it into their plans. The whole point of SP (from what I understand) was for it to be a transit oriented development site; high density close to transit (ferry).

Even if a stadium doesn't go in SP; I'd still want to see a ferry because people who live and work downtown may choose to live there. If enough high speed ferries get built with the HS ferry idea - you could have multiple routes from SP to dt Halifax or Bedford.

I hate to be negative ...... but I really don't think any site outside of the urban core will be a success and I grew up my whole life in dartmouth. Does anyone here remember a minor pro soccer team based in dartmouth???? If no that is most likely because you never crossed the water to see them play(or were too young) or when the halifax exports breifly moved accross the bay also not a success.........And what about the Montreal Expos(my favorite team) part of their demisse was the fact they couldn't get a stadium closer to the downtown and good transit and soon moved to washington.

I think for the first little bit a stadium anywhere in HRM would draw, but after the novelty wore off people will become more reluctant to travel further out to the "burbs" to see events. This has happened more than a few times through-out North America I assume.


Baseball stadiums and sports arenas work best in downtown locations because of their multiple events. However, football stadiums tend to work just as well in downtown or suburban locations. There are quite a few NFL stadiums quite a good distance from downtown as well as several that are right downtown. Football games tend to be on the weekends, so you don't have a lot of fans walking over to the ballpark after work. I can't believe that several of you all are whining about having to drive over from Halifax to Dartmouth for a CFL game. Talk about being spoiled. I am sure that we will have fans that will drive a couple of hours to watch a game. It comes down to the fact that this stadium will be successful regardless of where in HRM we locate the stadium. World Cup matches and CFL games are events that people will make an effort to attend. If we are not willing to drive across the MacDonald Bridge to see our CFL team play, then we don't deserve a CFL team.

If the event at the stadium is a big enough attraction you will have no problem filling seats. DC or SP locations would no doubt have transit hubs feeding the stadium just like the concerts on the commons did. Most people at Moosehead games come from the burbs and go through the headache of parking downtown so to go to DC or SP wouldn't be a huge inconvenience.

Look at the Magnetic Hill concert site and how out of the way it is with no amenities around it. There never seems to be a problem getting crowds to the site even if they have to wait an hour to get out of a parking lot.

:rolleyes: Yes--you're quite right. The peninsula, particularly downtown, has been sooo spoiled with sooo much construction over the past decade.

*sigh*

Dude, I don't even enjoy football. This discussion is about the best economic choice. A stadium will monetarily influence its immediate surroundings. That's all this is about.

Says you...

Just because you use the word 'fact' doesn't make it so. Give me proof; give me numbers.

Dude, I don't even enjoy football. This discussion is about the best economic choice. A stadium will monetarily influence its immediate surroundings. That's all this is about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welkin View Post
It comes down to the fact that this stadium will be successful regardless of where in HRM we locate the stadium.
Says you...

Just because you use the word 'fact' doesn't make it so. Give me proof; give me numbers.

I hate to spoil your bubble, but there is very little evidence that football stadiums produce any real extra monetary benefit to their surroundings. Football stadiums tend to become economic dead-zones except for the one day every other week when a game is held. Baseball stadiums have been documented to revive downtown areas (you can build businesses around 80+ games per year, but it is hard to sustain any business growth from 9+ games per year), but I am unaware of any football stadium having the same effect.
Football stadiums might bring extra business to already existing bars and restaurants, but they aren't the catalyst that causes new businesses to be developed.

I stand by my statement that location is not the major factor to success in building a football stadium. While there are multiple examples of baseball stadiums that have dramatically improved attendance with a new downtown location (at least the Florida Marlins hope this will be true), I could find no example of a professional football team that improved attendance with moving to a downtown location. The Washington Redskins moved from downtown D.C. (where they had great public transportation access) to suburban Maryland (where they limited public transportation access) and yet they still sell-out a 95,000 seat stadium. Fans in New York City drive all the way out to the New Jersey suburbs to Giants Stadium (where they have almost no public transportation access) to watch sold-out games by the NFL Giants and Jets. I don't think you would have the same sold-out results if you moved the Yankees to New Jersey suburbs.

I can't speak for everyone but I don't think it's about the drive itself. It's about the fact that some of the locations don't have the infrastructure to handle the mass amounts of entering/exiting traffic that would occur. This would be true for vehicle and pedestrian/ferry traffic. No one likes sitting idle on a road for long periods of time, that's fact. Halifax isn't going to build a new highway for a stadium. If the traffic didn't affect the normal flow of city traffic than it wouldn't be as noticed but few of the peninsula roads and definitely not the bridges are able to handle a mass load. I think Scotiabank Place has been mentioned a few times. I know that it doesn't sit next to a major highway and so traffic back-ups occur. The only help is that it's not in downtown Ottawa so city traffic isn't affected as much until people that actually live there return home.

I'll close by saying this though. Halifax has the smallest traffic issue of any of the medium to large cities I have ever travelled to. I for one will sit in traffic if it meant that I could see Halifax play my current favorite Toronto Argonauts. No matter what side the harbour the stadium is on.

Just a reminder for those who voted that the public consultation session that pertains to location will be on:

Session 2 Theme: Location and Design

Thursday October 13
Farrell Hall
276 Windmill Road
7:00-9:00 PM

http://www.hrmstadium.ca/

So far it looks like I can make this.

To anyone who shall be in attendance of these public meetings with regards to the stadium's location, I am hoping for the consideration of something extremely important: expectancy of regular attendance. Who is the most likely to feed this stadium: people in the HRM, or the Maritimes abroad?

For such a large investment, which this stadium is for the HRM (as this goes well beyond the peninsula: mainland, Bedford, Sackville, Dartmouth, etc.), I'm afraid this money demands we set aside regional ego and politics and work toward the common goal of making this stadium work for all of us in a smart, efficiently economic way.

This should be a debate about numbers. If there is a strong business case for putting the stadium in the vicinity of Dartmouth Crossing, then so be it! We ultimately are trying to find the best financial outcome. However, from how a stadium's payoff is grounded in its ability to sell tickets regularly--and its ability to produce sales during non-CFL events (concerts, for example)--the question ends up being: how close does the Atlantic Stadium have to be to an established, densely populated area in order to survive?

Rather than placing a stadium in a scattered retail paradise of parking pavement--something not overly walkable; rather than placing a stadium in an area that is distant from residential, and away from our university and college students; rather than placing this development next to minimally established developments--because I'm sorry; Dartmouth Crossing may be a successful Bayer's Lake replica, hybridised with a touch of township--but it would be far too costly to taxpayers to place a stadium where it will not stimulate the local economy. This sprawled business park does not have the density of the downtown. Can this even be made to be walkable? If it is not we miss out on business opportunties from walking traffic.

Now I'm not a loon; I'm not saying that our only rational option is to place a stadium somewhere in our downtown (bye, bye Citadel?). I am saying that I want to see an argument explain why the stadium must be off the peninsula. Even away from the downtown, the north end has density--the sound end with respect to SMU. Why are we ignoring the potential economic spin-offs of a stadium stimulating businesses from its walking traffic? Why are giving up on the opportunity to further stimulate high-rise residential, promoting urbanism?

I argue that Haligonians will be the stadium's main food group; Dartmouth Crossing would only be a good choice if Maritimers were to be regular, bi-monthly (at the very least) attendees.

Placing a stadium away from its food source means we must build roads. Road are expensive. If we must invest in roads, does it not stand to reason to invest in our roads which already host high density?

My name is Ryan. I am a Haligonian. And I am sick to fuck of sprawl.

Jstaleness I just reposted your chat login instructions in this thread as this session tonight will be important for those who want to voice their opinion on location.

Just a reminder this starts in 20 mins.

CHAT LINK HERE:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/hrm-stadium-pub-consultation-2

Session 2 Theme: Location and Design

Thursday October 13
Farrell Hall
276 Windmill Road
7:00-9:00 PM

Very good session, only got to see the tail end, but very well done.

It is nice to see some of the negativity waning and some hype and momentum building! Hope to make the remaining sessions. If the 25 or 8 billion $ shipbuilding contract is awarded to Halifax then these sessions will have to be redone so that a larger stadium can be the focal point.

At the end of the session it was difficult to tell what group was larger. Was it the Crossing group or Shannon Park group? Cheers to the 3 guys that stood alone for the Cogswell site.

Well regardless of what we may think of locations, it's good to see people stand up for the convictions and support the idea of a stadium somewhere. We may not agree with their location, but something tells me that if you asked a second question of "if your first choice couldn't work out - what would be your second choice" you'd have seen the crowd at DC double.

Through casual conversations with friends, I've heard that Dartmouth Crossing's inception was made possible largly by Halifax's previous stadium bid?

If this is so, I can see why many people are supporting a stadium at DC.
I find it disappointing; regardless, it's good to see the HRM inch closer and closer to actually deciding on a stadium. :)