Housing in Winnipeg
 

Housing is big urban issue, of course, so I thought a thread dedicated to housing in Winnipeg would be appropriate. Rent controls, rental-to-condo conversions, urban sprawl, multi-family housing, etc. etc - it's a diverse topic, with lots of interesting debate. Here's an article from the Free Press on the topic:

Winnipeg Free Press - ONLINE EDITION

Housing in crisisCity’s blowing a chance for growth
By: Bartley Kives

Posted: 06/12/2011 9:55 AM | Comments: 30
Print E–mail 28 15Share43Report Error At the risk of throwing a soggy blanket over the current optimism in Winnipeg, this city is about to blow the biggest opportunity to come around in decades.

No, I’m not talking about National Hockey League tickets. That tiny window opened and closed in 13 minutes two Saturdays ago.

I’m talking about growth — the tangible variety that involves more human beings inhabiting this town, not the loosier-goosier concept of economic growth.

For the better part of the past 50 years, Winnipeg has been rightly regarded as a slow-growth city due to annual population increases of barely one per cent.

According to Statistics Canada, our growth this year is a modest 1.3 per cent, as about 9,000 more people were added to a population that stood at 684,100 almost a year ago.

The city’s population is now estimated to be 693,200. The broader Winnipeg metropolitan area — the city and surrounding bedroom communities where more than half the workforce commutes to Winnipeg — now stands at 764,200, up from 753,600 a year ago, according to StatsCan.

You would think a medium-sized metropolitan area that’s been growing slowly for decades for would be able to sustain the slow-but-steady pace.

But a bizarre thing happened over the past decade: Winnipeg’s snail-like population growth outpaced the supply of housing to the point where residential property values doubled and the apartment vacancy rate plummeted to ridiculous lows.

Between 2003 and 2010, the taxable portion of Winnipeg properties jumped from $15.1 billion to $30.8 billion. On one hand, this is great news for people who own property as well as the real-estate industry, the property-development sector and all the tradespeople and retailers that benefit from a property boom.

But the rapid increase in property values has a corollary in residential-apartment vacancy rates, which first sank below two per cent in 2000 and have now receded to 0.7 per cent.

It’s been said many times, but this amounts to a housing crisis. Many people moving to Winnipeg cannot find a place to live and many people of modest means who already live here can’t afford to remain, if they have to move, for any reason.

Part of the problem is a shortage of apartment buildings. Developers are more willing to build condominiums than apartments, mainly because condos amount to quicker profits. As well, many developers resent the rent controls in place across the province, even though property-management companies routinely exceed those controls by making legitimate improvements to their buildings.

But another major factor in the residential-housing crisis is condo conversions, which are driven by the high housing prices and provide a fantastic opportunity to make a quick buck. The conversion of apartments to condos has exacerbated the housing crisis, but Manitoba’s laissez-faire regulatory regime actually encourages them.

In most other provinces, apartment-building owners who want to convert their suites into condos must first determine what sort of infrastructure improvements must be made to their buildings, such as roof or furnace repairs. They must then create a kitty for those improvements which will then be used by future condo-buyers to pay for the upgrades.

This kitty both protects condo buyers and slows down the pace of conversions, as there is no enticement to make a quick buck. And that in turn displaces fewer apartment dwellers.

In Manitoba, the condo converters essentially do what they want. Cognizant of the problem, Winnipeg’s city council is formally urging the province to insist that condo converters place seed money in building-maintenance funds. But the provincial NDP isn't going that far.

In May, the Selinger government promised to slow the pace of condo conversions by announcing it will soon force property owners to provide more notice to apartment residents. The province also plans to place a four-year moratorium on conversions of buildings where owners have received rent-control exemptions because they fixed up entire properties.

In the meantime, Winnipeg is left with the worst of both worlds: a low vacancy rate that makes already desperate disadvantaged people even more desperate and a rent-control system that only annoys the very same property developers the city and province need to build more apartment units.

Ottawa, which hasn’t cared about housing in decades, needs to create some form of tax incentive for apartment developers. City council, which is fond of telling anyone who will listen that it should not be responsible for housing, needs to realize the low vacancy rate is not just fuelling Winnipeg’s homelessness problem, but contributing to crime. A city cannot be healthy with a large underclass of people with no acceptable place to live.

The province has even more work to do. It needs to go further on condo conversions, possibly rethink the thorny question of rent control and start thinking about housing in a broader context.

At the risk of upsetting the provincial housing orthodoxy, its current policy preoccupation with creating low-income housing quite ironically harms low-income people, because when middle-class and wealthy people have no place to live, they simply move into whatever’s available. And that means displacing low-income people.

Ergo, Winnipeg needs to stimulate the creation of all kinds of housing: homes, condos, apartments and subsidized spaces, ideally all in the same neighbourhoods, in every section of the city. I don’t believe in urban utopias, but the healthiest neighbourhoods have a mix of people, not monocultures.

The policy geeks know this. The politicians understand this. Even the developers have been raising red flags about the Winnipeg housing crisis for years.

Unfortunately, housing isn’t anywhere near as sexy as NHL hockey. But I can tell you what’s not sexy: a slow-growth city too sluggish and short-sighted to accommodate what any observer would consider very modest population growth.

On one hand, there is an upside: the lack of housing may keep certain undesireables out.

Let's face it: we have more than our fair share of low-income people, and if we need to displace many, so be it. Edmonton has lots of affordable housing; they can go there.

Winnipeg has a vast inventory of derelict homes that are ripe for replacement with multi-family developments, and of course, the vast surface lots downtown.

:previous:


At the risk of being politically incorrect, I agree with the above post!

Agreed 100%. Displacement due to higher housing costs would be a great thing for Winnipeg.

It is one thing to have affordable housing. It is another to have a city filled with derelict housing where the rents are cheap.

I assume y'all are working with the assumption that the displaced people will move elsewhere and not take up residence on Winnipeg park benches? Or is either outcome beneficial?

On the other hand though, the undesireables may choose to stay and simply congregate into unfavourable conditions. Under which, even the more rational thinking of them may find themselves travelling a path they might not have otherwise.

It is a double edged sword.

If we want to continue receiving 10,000 immigrants a year (or more) though, something is going to have to be done about the shortage of affordable housing (particularly rentals). Most young people/young families migrating here from abroad can't necessarily buy into the hot housing market right off the bat - it takes a few years. We need to ensure that there are affordable rentals for these families (not to mention students and young professionals), if we want these groups to set roots in Winnipeg. I'd argue that these 3 groups are very important for Winnipeg's continued growth/prosperity...

Well, the province is the first to recognize the importance of immigration, which is why it will continue to fund new housing developments for them. With most immigrants, they need rental accommodation for a short period before they move into purchasing; this order of behavior is what will keep our housing market, and economy very healthy. This same idea must be encouraged with social housing for non-immigrants. Social housing should never be a permanent idea, but rather a temporary solution. So many people just don't give a damn about progressing. Stop having kids if you cannot afford to support them, and attempt to get training to better your chances of getting a bigger paycheque.

First of all, you guys are twisted.

Secondly, that's not how it works.

drove by the new apartment building being built on westwood. should start shooting out of the ground any week now!

http://districtcondos.ca/ just updated their website with more information including floor plans.

Interesting that some of the units have no wardrobe closets (aside from a front coat closet) and that many of the other units have the closets shown as optional.

I would think that it would be necessary if you have a job that requires you to dress in business casual or higher.

http://www.dennistoun.ca/

Not too sure what to make of this but marketing for the Dennistoun Condominiums has been suspended at this time.

Is there a chance this project will be cancelled?

bet there making it larger

I doubt it. If sales were going well the building would already be under construction.

I suspect they will make the building cheaper by making it uglier in hopes to get more sales.

I e-mailed Sunstone about this, and here is the response:

"Thank you for your inquiry. Unfortunately we have been unable to achieve the necessary pre-sales to proceed with the project, therefore we have suspended all sales and marketing at this time. We may consider a re-launch of the project at some time in the future should market conditions change..."

A bit dissappointing news but I'm not surprised. The units there were priced quite high compared to some of the other projects around downtown.

That's really unfortunate, considering the hoops Sunstone had to jump through to get the thing to proceed...

New streetside condo project for the royalwood area.

http://www.streetside.ca/view-condo-...m?projectID=29


Also Fort Rouge yards has recently updated their site with come recent developments and a brief timeline. I was a bit worreid about this project as there hasn't been any updates in a year. They're looking to start contruction of housing summer 2012.

http://fortrougeyards.com/2011/11/14...-2011-updates/

So the first development of this TOD will happen on the section of land farthest away from the BRT station. Wow. :rolleyes:

Winnipeg Free Press - ONLINE EDITION
Winnipeg home sales hit $3 billion

By: Staff Writer

Posted: 12/29/2011 10:17 AM |

"The value of Winnipeg home sales hit $3 billion in 2011, only four years after hitting $2 billion for the first time..."

Full story: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre...136375793.html

Growing pains: The debate over Winnipeg residential development

Developers say more outlying land needed; city says denser developments, rather than sprawl, the answer

By: Bartley Kives

When property developers and employers look at Winnipeg's rising home prices, low rental-apartment vacancy and modest but consistent population growth, they come to a single, inescapable conclusion: This city needs more room and needs it now.

When politicians and public servants look at Winnipeg's rising operating costs, low revenue growth and mounting infrastructure deficit, they come to a single, inescapable conclusion: The city can't afford to continue spreading out.

According to official population projections, 180,000 more people will move into the city over the next two decades. Those new Winnipeggers will require a place to live.

But if the vast majority of them move into single-family homes -- the dominant mode of residential dwelling in 20th-century Winnipeg -- the city will effectively go broke.


http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...207035281.html

The City has a huge problem and no one knows what to do about it -- this article just scratches the surface of some of the many many of them.

For starters, the current zoning by-law promotes sprawl by not charging enough for greenfield development. Greenfields are just that, green, so they are usually zoned as argicultural land and thus are taxed at a very low rate. This makes it easier on the developer to pay property taxes through the whole planning phase, unlike brownfield and in-fill developments, which are usually expensive to hold onto because they are taxed at a higher rate per sq.ft. With how NIMBY some areas of Winnipeg can be, this process could take a long time and cost the in-fill developer a lot more.

Second, while the permits to build in greenfield are more expensive, it doesn't even come close to equalizing the difference between it and brownfield/in-fill, which often require soil/geotechnical tests.

Third, while many of these suburban developments are being called "complete communities", the area where density occurs (and presumably the areas where you wouldn't need a car) are the same locations that are built to the scale of the automobile.

But what happens when the City makes greenfield development too expensive is the developers just move to exurban areas, building neighbourhoods outside the City's land area.

All in all, it's lose-lose for the City, unless they find a way of capturing value from exurban commuters who use City infrastructure without paying City taxes.

Suburbia?..Lived in Charleswood/Tuxedo..(borders charleswood)..I did enjoy the at the lake feel,but is it time? Burbanites should love this dev..I had chose to move back to the core area..I loved the wildlife,no sidewalks, etc, in the area but for the life of me I went loopie. Is it sprawl? Or Infill?

Ridgewood South passes vote at city council

City council has taken the first step toward the approval of Winnipeg's largest new residential suburb since Waverley West.


http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...209387821.html

I think it's good news, hopefully this keeps people IN the city and not in La Salle, Headingly, Oak Bluff, etc.

Yes, I believe so to wags, If Winnipeg's residential component has to expand due to demand, keeping it within the present city limits, rather than bed room communities is the right course to take.

Winnipeg Free Press - ONLINE EDITION
Report says new housing market future rosy

In its May Metropolitan Housing Starts report, released today, the Ottawa-based think-tank said Winnipeg is one of only five Canadian cities surveyed to have positive expectations for housing starts for both the short and long term.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre...210082271.html

Where's the bubble I keep hearing about?

Shout out to Murray McN for explaining why the North End can't have nice things:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opi...ce=d-more-news

A depressing story. These houses look great... but honestly, who wants to bother with those kinds of hassles? Even though it's probably just a small minority of area residents who engage in this kind of destructive behaviour, they ruin it for everyone.

Even though we live almost beside the Redwood Bridge we don't use it except to go north on Main. No one in my family does. The North End is simply horrible.

I love the North End... it was an important part of my formative years during the 80s and early 90s. But honestly, I have a hard time disagreeing with your post. There are positive things going on in most other "inner city" neighbourhoods around town, but the North End has just been getting progressively worse through the years. The stretch between the CP yards and Redwood in particular is a shambles these days. Where do you even begin?

East of Main it is still fairly respectable but that's about it.

The sad thing from an urbanist standpoint is that Selkirk is the best, most urban street in Winnipeg outside of the downtown area... to see it reduced to a line of social agencies and vacant lots where buildings once stood is painful.

I actually see a lot of interest in the North End from some of the more pioneering kids these days. A lot of people are cluing into what a great street Selkirk really is, and when you get up around Burrows you can get some amazing houses for a song. Too bad the streets around Selkirk are some of the worst. We'll see how many of these kids make the jump, and if they're actually willing to stick it out to make a difference.

I always figured that once West Broadway reached critical mass its gentrification would spill northward into the West End. I supposed that may still happen, but the West End has gotten out in front of that pressure by becoming an improving immigrants' community. Notre Dame, in particular, has been pleasantly surprising. That leaves would-be Rob Galstons to crossing Main into the heart of the North End.

^ Yeah, the West End has really benefitted from the northward creep of the Wolseley/West Broadway crowd... a good number of first time homebuyers who can't find something in their price point in Wolseley proper are moving into the blocks just north of Portage (the joke is that the stretch between Portage and Sargent is now known as "Wolseley North"). And the immigrant presence further to the north by Notre Dame is also helping to keep the area in good shape.

Unfortunately the North End doesn't have this going on... intrepid middle class white kids are still very rare in the area, and it's not even that popular with immigrants. My brother in law bought a place not too far from the Mountain 7-Eleven, and from what I can tell a lot of the tidy-looking blocks even in this "good" part of the North End have something in common: the one slumlord-owned house which is a constant headache for everyone in the area. Plus a lot of the other small headaches like petty crime/vandalism, the endless dumping in the lanes, that sort of thing. A lot of people just don't want to put up with that, so they look elsewhere. Eventually the proportion of responsible homeowners starts getting pretty low.

Was talking to a cop I know who told me a story. They pulled over some dealers in a car a few weeks ago. In the back seat was a woman doing drugs and trying to hide the coke or whatever it was. She is 31 and has ten children. She had her first child at the age of thirteen.
I found this story, and today's article in the free press quite discouraging. I worked on those old tripartite core area agreements and a lot of more recent initiatives, and while they achieved some positive results they are/were very small band aids. No idea what the answer is, but I do know that Winnipeg is on the frontline of our national crisis regarding First Nations wellbeing.

My son and his wife recently were shopping for houses nearer to work as it is quite a long bus ride from Elmwood to Corydon for him and a far farther drive for her. They were looking in Fort Rouge and south River Heights and all around that area. The conclusion was either no yards or the house was a "slanty shanty" as my DIL put it. They ended up buying a beautiful house in EK. :)

More kids = more welfare. Until that changes this will continue.

Winnipeg has a huge "no go" zone basically west of the Red River, east of Route 90 and north of Portage Ave. If it falls into that general zone it is the "north end". It seems that for the middle and upper class of people they would rather never set foot inside that zone and view border areas like downtown as risky to venture into.

We are a long way from fixing it and it would need a huge cultural change.

I would think that area is quite a bit smaller than you would suggest. I would more or less put it the rail yards on the south, Main St to the east, Cathedral to the north and Arlington to the west.

That's vastly overstating the situation, IMO. There are some very nice areas north of Inkster that represent great housing bargains for families. They're safe, with excellent bilingual schools and plentiful parks. I owned houses in the area and two of my kids do now. It's a good place to raise kids. In my mind, the real no go zone is in south Winnipeg on a Saturday with endless lanes of clogged traffic, acres upon acres of vapid shopping malls and bored kids roaming the streets at night smashing out car windows. Each neighbourhood has its issues. There's no denying that the heart of the North End up to maybe Mountain and bounded by the river and McGregor is a hell-hole. I wouldn't paint West Kildonan/Garden City/Maples with that brush at all.

I agree with Biff and Phil's neighbour. Unfortunately as the city grows more physically divided (the social divides were always there but the physical divide is becoming much more pronounced), you end up with a generation of youngsters like CoryB who think there be dragons anywhere north of Portage. And that just exacerbates the situation.

Some of the best housing deals in town can be found in the EK, WK and Garden City areas, partly because of the "North End discount" due to the proximity of that area. Just yesterday I saw a spectacular house on Bredin (off Henderson), right on the river, beautifully done, $600K. That would be a million dollar+ house if it were on the Assiniboine. Just one example. Scotia Street, Ambassador Row, Kildonan Drive are examples of areas with homes undervalued due to location, even though there is nothing wrong with those areas in and of themselves... it's just that a generation of young adults who grew up in River Park South, Island Lakes or whatever whitebread suburbs won't even consider them.

In my work life I have dealt with a good number of professionals and fairly wealthy people who live in the areas surrounding the North End, your Scotia Drives, Bredin Drive, Henderson-along-the-river type areas. The one thing they have in common is that they're all over 60... not many young people of means live north of downtown anymore (unless it's beyond the Perimeter). This is an ominous sign for Winnipeg.

Personally I know there are many nice neighbourhoods in what I described as the "no-go" zone. The reality for a lot of middle class though it seems that no matter how great the bargain is on housing or what other benefits there might be to the "no-go" zone they will do whatever they can to stay outside that area. This is very much the demographic that was backing Gord Steeves in the election last year.

I am in my early 40s and I would have to say that I am a bit of an NK snob. I would never think of living on the west side of the Red River. I have lots of friends that live in the Riverbend area and although nice I just couldn't do it. We currently live in north, north-east NK and honestly wouldn't likely move anywhere else in the city for that matter.

We did however live just off Kildonan Dr and would move back to the area once the kids move out.

Is there any other kind....?

;)

It is interesting though, that the only people I know who live in that general area of the City, also grew up there, and work there.

It's kind of like people from Transcona and St. James...

And people from Charleswood, who will only live south the Assiniboine, and west of the Red. Except this one. But I am among a very small minority.

As I mentioned, east of Main and north of St. John's park is a pretty nice area. There are far fewer run down houses there. I owned and lived at 10 Emslie Street in the early 80's, it was nice around there then and it still is today.

Winnipeg is a city of neighbourhood loyalists. Doesn't matter if you are talking about Norwood, river heights, sunny St James or anywhere. To me that indicates most people have pretty good memories of their early years in the Peg. Hope the next generation feels the same way.

I grew up in "All seasons estates" off of Sun Valley Drive, I loved it then, but the idea of living so far away from everything now, is completly un appealing.
I did live on Henderson at kildonan drive for ten years and Loved it so much! Even being right on Henderson Highway.
Now I live in Elmwood and it's okay, the area is considered more "working class" but lots of people around, and unlike Kildonan drive my car hasnt been broken into once! :tup:

[The Globe and Mail] 'High risk' of correction in Regina, Winnipeg housing markets: CMHC

Interesting. It doesn't really feel as though Winnipeg went crazy overbuilding housing, but I guess all those modestly-sized subdivisions and condo projects added up.

Here is the actual CMHC report:

http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/corp/n...04-30-0900.cfm

I find it strange, looking at Winnipeg, Regina and Saskatoon, that the same reasons why the report says Saskatoon at lower risk is the same reasons it says the capitals are at higher risk. And stranger still that apparently Saskatoon starts (largely what is setting up the potential impending crashes) are again at record highs where Regina and Saskatoon have started to slow.

I'm not sure why I am interpreting from the report that a growing glut of homes in Saskatoon is moderating prices there, while a shrinking glut of homes in the capitals is bad when the major cause of the price correction is ultimately a glut in homes. Even stranger when AFAIK the average household income is higher in Regina than Saskatoon (not sure how Winnipeg compares).

I know two people who have taken an absolute bath on condos they purchased in the early 2000s and sold in the last couple years. Not surprised. I don't think it is bad in the sense that people are still buying the condos being built, but re-selling them anytime soon will be impossible.