Westboro Connection | Completed
 

http://www.westborocollection.com/

The Open House panels are now up
http://wwuploads.googlepages.com/wes...ollection1.jpghttp://wwuploads.googlepages.com/wes...ollection2.jpg

interesting... they posted the comments they got from the community online

:previous:

I was reading those as well.

I like the comment about the tower rising up elegantly in a terrace and then sprouting an incongruous stack. That's pretty much what I thought too. I'm 99% sure that those last 3-5 stories will end up getting knocked off. I've got no opposition to 16 storeys at that site but it just doesn't look right.

I was at that meeting; my comments aren't there because I never submitted any written comments, just oral comments to some of the representatives. There were a fair number of people present who didn't live on Clifton who, like me, by and large support the project and therefore didn't leave comments.

One of the comments I suggested was to create a square (i.e. not to grass the entire place up) that could be used for outdoor markets and the like. I also like the idea of relocating the hydro corridor to pole-style towers in a median. I hadn't thought of the concern of people on Clifton of people parking on Clifton and using the pedestrian path. Clifton is unfortunately being used as an extension of Kirkwood to get to Island Park/Champlain Bridge, the Metropole as well as to the infill to the east (which has no road access from Kirkwood to prevent the same thing from happening). They're going to have to put some traffic calming measures in to divert motorists to McRae I think.

Wow! I’ve been waiting a long time for the redevelopment of those decrepit properties and parking lots on McRae. It’s going to make a huge difference, and hopefully kick start further development on Scott and north of the Westboro Transitway Station. And you have to give these guys high marks for transparency.

I’m happy to see options for the street itself since McRae is currently a mess, particularly during weekends when there are parked cars on both sides of the street and not enough space for two-way traffic. I’ve seen bus drivers just give up and go down Athlone instead in order to reach the Westboro Transitway Station. If they are going to restrict access to Clifton, McRae will see even more traffic so it needs to be fixed.

In an ideal world, the hydro lines would be buried. However, I certainly could live with the three options they presented.

I’d be interested in knowing how Bushtukha and Trailhead feel about this proposal. It looks like they would lose some parking spaces, although in the case of Trailhead this could be mitigated somewhat by more on-street parking on Scott. I don’t think they’ll regard underground parking as a perfect substitute.

Ken Gray noted that the 16-storey tower could aggravate the wind problem on Scott Street that the Metropole creates. On some days, the wind is brutal for people trying to reach the Westboro Transitway Station from the East.

Some of the comments do not surprise me. When I attended a meeting on what is now known as the 101 Richmond project, there was lot of resentment expressed against condos in particular. Some people regard them as little better than crack houses.

What a surreal observation! One day we'll be able to laugh at all of this... Evidently, they don't have the same idea of a "condo" as those who have known and seen the elegant Victorian or Haussmannian apartments of old London and Paris. Ain't no riff-raff livin' there.

I heard a story where residents opposed new condos in the neighbourhood for fear of crime, property values, etc...then were told the condos would be selling for more money than their single family homes :D

edit: might have been from the forum meet, I can't remember exactly.

Oh yes, one of the other things that I suggested was that they suggest to the City that when Westboro Station is extended for LRT that it be extended entirely to the east. One of the plans (by the City I believe) is to put in a pedestrian overpass opposite McRae across at that utility bridge just east of the station (Suzie - you probably know what I'm referring to) to connect into the path alongside the Metropole. By shifting the centre of the station eastwards more people would be coming to grade opposite McRae rather than heading up Tweedsmuir or Athlone as at present.


As for the hydro poles, this to me should be seen as an opportunity. There aren't going to be many of them - probably three. The poles are relatively clean looking and their lower reaches can be used for draping things like flags/banners and special lamp standards. The issue, as always, is coordinating that kind of thing.

A condominium is merely a form of ownership. However, the word 'condo' has come to mean, in many peoples minds, a large ap't bldg often built in an area of SFR's or it has come to mean a bldg with 'yuppies' etc, who don't understand the way life has gone on in the neighbourhood since the beginning of time and they won't blend in.

Also condos are responsible for all property values going down, taxes going up and noise, pollution, vagrancy, teenagers hanging out, drugs, prostitution and traffic. :tup:

Funny, in actual fact, the "teens hanging out" phenomenon is much more "visible" in environments that are all single-family or ground-oriented homes. Aylmer was known (still is?) for its bush parties, parents despaired about them, but no matter how many task forces, outreach programs, speeches and whatever else was tried, daily life was always there the next morning: there's not much to do, downtown is far, and the buses don't run often. That's why they convinced a businessman to open a cinema in Aylmer.

As if, by the way, the idea of "teens hanging out" should be something to frown upon. What could be more normal and healthy than having and making friends! People who are threatened by tenneagers having fun need to get a life. Not all fun is equally healthy, of course, and parenting plays a role is setting those parameters, but fun itself can never be taken away from teens. They have plenty of time for seriousness later.

Hello Skyscraper-ites,

Traffic and safety are huge issues for myself and the other residents of Clifton Road, especially considering the number of young children on the street and the lack of sidewalks.

We hope that with this development, the city will recognize the urgent need to address the traffic stresses we are currently facing.

Karlis

Hello Karlis, welcome to the Forum, here's hoping you post your views and opinions, and pictures, as often as possible.

On Westboro Collection. Would you say that the proper approach would be to provide wide sidewalks and allow for continuous on-street parking, to ensure a buffer of parked vehicles between children on the sidewalk and moving traffic on the street?

Objection: Leading question:order:

Wouldn't you say that a narrow street with widened, treed sidewalks and bulb-outs and parking alternating on the two sides of a meandering cobble street would be your preference because it would dissuade all but local vehicles from accessing the street and thus provide a safer environment for the children?

Actually, I have never thought that a long row of parked cars and children made a particularly safe combination. I would much rather see the parked cars broken into short groups by bulb-outs since it gives kids a better place to cross, and better visibility to drivers.

As Dado noted, the basic issue is that many people use Clifton to travel between Kirkwood and Scott Street. So there is steady traffic on a residential street. Although I use Clifton mainly for walking, I admit that I do drive on it on occasions because McRae and Island Park Drive can be congested. Whenever I do so, I try to limit my speed in order to respect those who live there. However, there are always people who don’t care and thus speed, despite the narrowing of the street to one lane in places due to weird-looking bulb-outs.

Sidewalks would definitely help improve safety for pedestrians (there are currently no sidewalks on Clifton between Wilber and Scott and the sidewalk between Wilber and Richmond is crappy). However, it would not reduce the level of traffic, which some would argue is too high for a residential street. Children like to wander onto the street so there would still be a safety issue.

I am in favour of the Westboro Collection project and don’t share some of the concerns that have been voiced by the residents of Clifton. This being said, I do agree that something needs to be done about the traffic on that street. This should be done in parallel with improvements to McRae and its intersections with Richmond and Scott in order to make it a better alternative.

16 storeys too high?
 

That is very laughable IMO. The Metropole across the street is way higher, and like the Metropole, this proposed 16 storey building will be to the north of the homes owned by those who feel they will be most affected, meaning that it will not block sunlight, unlike what some of those NIMBYs are crying about. Also, 16 storeys is not high, plus it is a terraced building, so it won't be a big box-like tower.
These NIMBY comments linked above are so typical of Ottawa, but I was happy to see many comments were overall supportive of this project.

Leading question or not, it didn't stop you from expressing your view. Bulbouts are OK for crossing, I agree, but be mindful that "better visibility for drivers" only encourages speed.

Angled parking is much better at calming traffic than parallel parking. Especially when on a cobbled street like Richard was suggesting.

I think what was meant was "daylighting" a crosswalk, which is really more visibility for the pedestrian as well.

Sorry, I was just jesting. I have been hearing too much about political trials and inquests lately and I got caught up in the moment.

Yes, I did add my opinion though. If this is to be a purely residential street, then it could have so-called 'traffic calming' measures implemented. Notice that I said before that it was a "meandering cobble" street so the sight lines are not that long. For example:

http://REade.fileave.com/Misc/Calmed-1-way-Street.jpg

shows a single-direction street with angle parking and bulb-outs. The bulb-outs are before the parking so that the drivers and pedestrians have the best chance of seeing each other. The driver is forced to adjust course frequently enough that no speed is built up.

I suggest single-direction because I think it is probably safer.

As I said, I think that this type of thing can be implemented in purely residential areas, but those areas must be properly serviced by larger roads which actually handle the traffic loads; that is, the neighbourhoods will be separated by arterial roads with higher speeds.

Traffic calming, as put forth by groups like CART (Citizens Advocating Responsible Transportation) are nice ideas, but I fear that they are best applied to smaller areas. People want choices and have mobility, via their car, to get to those choices. It is all very nice to say that each neighbourhood will have a pub, laundromat, and convenience store so people don't need a car; however, once you start adding other amenities, the area would get so crowded with libraries, pizzarias, fine restaurants, Walmarts, schools, churches, community centres, McDonalds, offices, etc., that there would be little room left for the residences.

Then there is the question of whether the local neighbourhood can support the facilities which would need to be present in each area? Walmarts and Catholic Churches are not neighbourhood based and are built large to draw people in from a wide area. Gone are the days when people would walk 2 miles to go to church.

And are people willing to spend more on all of their purchases? A mom & pop corner shop certainly can't get the same discounts from the manufacturer as Best Buy can. I know I'm willing and able to travel 10Km in my car to save $400 on a new LCD TV.

What about when you hear that the new chip-wagon in the east-end makes the best Poutine and you live near the one in the west-end that uses grated cheese instead of fresh, never refrigerated, cheese curds. Cruds so fresh that the squeeking is almost deafening if you eat them alone, without the muting effect of the rich, thick gravey. Are you willing to drive to the east-end for better Poutine?

Traffic calming has some applications, but so do big roads, and I think the City's Planners need to realize that. Installing disincentives to car travel along Lyon in the name of traffic calming is silly: If the City created, admittedly at great cost, main roads to connect things, then most traffic would stay on those big roads and the smaller roads would benefit. Look at the number of cars that the Queensway carries; if they were forced off of the 417, that traffic would distribute across many a local street as the drivers try to find 'a better way home'. (Of course, they could always take the train - Oh, wait, Ottawa doesn't have a train yet. And when we do get one, it won't go out to the suburbs.)

OK, I'll come down off my soap-box now.

:previous: Nice! That's a good model, actually. It can easily be adapted to 2-way streets. I see what you mean.

.

I played around with the layout a bit.... this is adding a two-way bikeway. It would be a great north-south connection, the trick would be to find a smooth way to go through RCCS to connect with Byron (for southbound traffic)

http://wwuploads.googlepages.com/mcrae_small.jpg

In the bike routes section of the presentation they show a bike route in what looks to be the 'greenway' area, so they might already be proposing something like this, I'm not really sure.

here are three options proposed by the architect

http://wwuploads.googlepages.com/mcrae_streetscape.jpg

I think what would be really cool is if the greenway was landscaped to mimic a rugged "outdoorsy" terrain, with lots of rocks and native plants, kind of like a piece of the Canadian Shield. Since Bushtukah and Trailhead are at either end of the street, it could become a good place to test out hiking boots or mountain bikes :)

Teardrop Park in Manhattan is a kids playground that has this kind of feel:
http://www.verdesian.com/life/teardrop_large.jpg from verdesian.com

http://tulloch.rutgers.edu/PlacePix/TearDropWall.jpg

http://archives.asla.org/lamag/lam07...opLAMFeb07.gif

One detail that some people miss on this street is how the hydro pole in front of Trailhead is a custom design that matches with the building.

^^^ Victoria's Broad St has done pretty much as described, and it works like a hot-damn.

The development application documents have now been posted on the City's website:

http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/...appId=__7NX8LE


Here's the official siteplan proposal:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3404/...0b53bdec_o.jpg

The Art of the Westboro Collection Compromise
http://communities.canada.com/ottawa...ompromise.aspx
By KENNETH_GRAY 06-16-2009 COMMENTS(0) THE BULLDOG

Filed under: Westboro, City of Ottawa, Westboro Collection, Christine Leadman

The Westboro Collection will be one of the defining developments within the urban boundary.

Two forces are at play with this project. First, the city wants height near Transitway stations so that as many people as possible can live within walking distance of bus rapid transit. Second, part of the project borders on residential areas where you don't want to go above six storeys because you begin to get problems like blocking daylight for single-family dwellings, a lack of privacy for homeowners, and wind-tunnel effects from tall buildings.

Futhermore, tall buildings take away the village atmosphere of the area (one of its selling points), though much of that has been lost already with block after block of trendy businesses and tall structures replacing traditional enterprises. Useful neighbourhood businesses such as food stores have been usurped by destination retail where people drive for miles around to find very specific merchandise.

Kitchissippi Councillor Christine Leadman, who represents the area, says McRae Avenue isn't much of a street now so the low-rise buildings planned in the Westboro Collection are fine there. But the 16-storey building at McRae and Scott Street near the Westboro Transitway station is too high and too near residential buildings. In fact, Leadman says some houses in the area have been put up for sale in anticipation of the project's construction.

Leadman would like to see the tower at between eight and 10 storeys. One of the problems she sees is that the consultant for the project, FoTenn, is using the nearby Metropole condo -- which she says most people in the community feel doesn't fit there at 32 storeys -- as a touchstone for its tower.

"The right thing to do is to meet with the community and find a compromise," Leadman said.

Anyone aware of any activity on this development?

Thanks,
K

Is it just me or is anyone else growing weary of this city's allergy to height in the downtown core while Centretown neighbourhoods are turned into monotonous corridors of the same generic 6-8 storey building clones...

CG

The date of the public meeting has been postponed until after labour day at the request of the community.

http://lovewestboro.wordpress.com/20...e/#comment-510

I find this delaying matters until post labour day to be frustrating...if you live in the neighbourhood etc and have concerns, put them in writing, send a neighbour or speak with the planner/councillor etc before you go on vacation...but to hold a project ransom due to some vision that everybody is away in July and August is archaic in my mind.....

Live goes on and doesn't just stop due to nice weather.....

Before you know it, it will be December and the City/developer will be accused of holding public meetings during the holiday season on purpose so no one shows up ;)

Yeah, trust me... welcome to the club.

I think this is my first post in this thread, incidentally, so I'll also say I hope this goes forward. Looks like a quality project, and McRea could really use redevelopment.

Don't forget the Thanksgiving/Remembrance Day/Family Day/Easter lead up and post holiday period that you can't have public meetings scheduled for and you also have to give all community groups and neighbours at least 2 months lead time from when reports are filed etc for them to review them and to provide their ancedotal (sp?) evidence.:banana:

It's not that everyone is away, but that some number might be. Putting stuff in writing and all the other suggestions just are not the same as showing up at a community meeting and talking with the developer's representatives in groups and being there in person to have stuff explained and just being involved.

It's also better for the developer because it goes a long way to removing the "facelessness" aspect. And of course some of the developer's own staff might be away too...

I'm sure that we in Westboro are fully aware of that. I mean I can't do anything without running into a construction project of some sort around here.

www.westborocollection.com has been updated... now featuring a Twitter feed

and news of the next Open House, scheduled for Monday September 14th, 6-9PM at the Embassy West on Carling
http://wwuploads.googlepages.com/wes...on_meeting.jpg

Anyone go to the open house or hear about what was presented?

The revised proposal is reflected in the big PDF file on the website:
http://www.westborocollection.com/pdf/wc-panels.pdf

Basically, the height of the tower has been reduced from 16-storeys to 12-storeys. At the same time, the tower has become chunkier. It's the only meanginful change, as far as I can tell.

I don’t know what the reaction was, since I was not able to attend the open house and there was no summary in the community paper. However, 12-storeys remains higher than the existing buildings on the south side of Scott Street. As well, the parking entrance to the tower remains on Tweedsmuir Avenue and the walkway to Clifton Road is still there. Thus, continued opposition can be expected. This past summer, I saw a few properties on Clifton Road go up for sale.

I expect this whole area to change significantly over the next five years. For example, close by at 1946 Scott Street (sorry, I don’t know how to use Google Street View to give people a good picture), the owner of the small lot was seeking some minor variances to build a six-storey building. I don’t know if these were approved.

Update on the outcomes of the meeting
 

hi everybody

does anyone have any information on the reactions to the revised plans? Is this going to city soon for approval?

Living in the area, it will be nice to see some nice new development on this street. Westboro and Wellington are experiencing significant construction. Living in Westboro, I think we have to brace ourselves up for an important tax hike considering the value of resale in the last year....

16 percent increase in value in Westboro, 10 percent in Highland Park

someone needs to teach those guys how to assemble a proper panorama

having skimmed the plan, it certainly has an interesting mix of concepts and I like the mixed use as well

update on this project?
 

Does anybody know if there are any new developments on this project? One would expect they would like to hit the market prior to the Soeurs de la Visitation condos....

The former car lot (northwest corner of McCrae and Scott) has a large for lease sign on it, suggesting that it might be some time before there's any construction, at least on that portion of the development.

West Wellington CA April meeting minutes
http://blog.westwellington.ca/wp-con...10-Minutes.pdf

Pete reported on what he had heard from a neighbour of the proposed development on McRae Avenue near Loblaws. The neighbour had heard that the developer was becoming frustrated by the process and was thinking of selling. It was suggested that given the pro-active way the developer approached the community and the thoroughness of their plan the CA should write a letter to both the developer and to Christine Leadman’s office supporting the continuation of the process. Peter will draft a letter.

Thanks Waterloo Warrior for putting those meeting minutes up for all to see. The one thing I notice is that there are a number of vague comments in there based on heresay, conjecture and rumours which make a person question the validity or status of some of these community associations.

Umm, the minutes are on the CA's own website, which is pretty much "up for all to see" already...

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. The McRae Ave proposal? If so you should probably realize that McRae does not fall in the area covered by the West Wellington CA - which is why it was classed under "other business". They're actually proposing to "meddle" in another CA's (Westboro) bailiwick because they would prefer to see processes like the one the developers of McRae have initiated done more often.

Whatever happened to this project?

It's on hold:

http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/...appId=__7NX8LE



An aside to the moderators: the title of this thread is wrong. It's McRae, not McCrae.

Here's a comment by Bob-TheBuilder from the 175 Richmond Road thread:

AGREED, and the NCC has to let the public use it.

Pardon me?

Looks like something might be in planning again for this site. The status of the application at the City (link in my previous post) is still on hold.

Btw, can someone with the power to do so please change the title of this thread to correct the spelling of McRae?



http://lovewestboro.wordpress.com/20...ing-319-mcrae/

"This came to us from the Councillor’s office:"

[not that I can find it on Councillor Hobbs' website: http://www.ourkitchissippi.ca ]

On behalf of Councillor Hobbs, you are invited to attend a community meeting regarding a proposal for 319 McRae Avenue. This is part of a land assembly previously proposed under the banner “Westboro Collection.” The proposal today is a portion of the land on the east side of McRae Avenue (backing on to Clifton Road residences). The proposal includes an office component (proposed future home of Alterna headquarters) and a residential building, targeted to be market rate rental apartments. The proposal would also include retail space at the ground level and one level of underground parking. It would also include streetscape improvements based on the Westboro/Richmond Road CDP for the Hydro corridor parallel to McRae.

No application has been made for the new proposal, this is a meeting very early in the application process. We hope to see you there to review the proposal, ask questions, and submit your feedback. Present will be the architect, planner and developer, as well as the Councillor and myself.

Where: Hilson Avenue Public School
When: Wednesday, December 5th, 2012, 7:00-9:00 PM