Liaison College (New Stinson Project) | ? | ? | ?
 

Stinson shifts to downtown core project

August 26, 2008
The Hamilton Spectator
(Aug 26, 2008)

Developer Harry Stinson is relocating his office and has plans for a new condo and hotel project.

Stinson is moving into the former Liaison College building on John Street and said he plans to redevelop the site.

Stinson recently lost $100,000 when he failed to find financing for his $9.5-million offer to buy the Royal Connaught. He bought the John Street property as part of his plans to redevelop the hotel.

Stinson said the new project will include condos and a boutique-style hotel. It will be easier to finance because of its smaller scale, he said, pegging the value at less than $10 million.

Stinson said he needed to move from his old James Street office because it's being rented for the expected federal election this fall.

The owners of the Connaught are still looking for their own financing to redevelop the hotel, said spokesperson Tony Battaglia. If financing fails, other developers have expressed interest in purchasing the property, he said.

Stinson owns the former Liaison College site and is moving ahead with the site's $10 million redevelopment into a boutique hotel and condo complex.

Think that can be done on $10 million?

This is a smart move by Stinson.
Even his biggest naysayers have previously stated that he'd be wise to start off with a smaller project and work his way up.
Clearly that's what he is doing now. I hope it works and he can keep moving on up - literally!

I don't see why not, Steelwon. We are talking about an infill on a small footprint, not likely to exceed the height of the current Connaught building.

He seems to have this obsession with boutique hotels/condos. This one track mindedness of his seem to be his achilles heel (among other issues).

If you look at the old Connaught proposal you'll see Stinson wanted sort of a replica of the Connaught facing the Court House, so Stinson is probably looking at the same height as the Connaught.

But the problem I see is the condos. With no real height there's no good view from the window. North and South side will be blocked off by neighbouring buildings and the West side faces the Court House and the East side faces the current Connaught parking lot.

^^ Boutique hotels are super popular, yet none exist in Hamilton. There has to be a market for them in the city.

I guess that answers my question I posted in the Connaught Thread yesterday! They weren't looking at the Hotel at all but rather the Liason College site.

Stinson finds a new project
8/26/2008

Developer Harry Stinson isn't giving up on downtown Hamilton.

After failing to finance his plans for a redevelopment of the Royal Connaught Hotel Stinson is moving to a new project.

This one is a bit smaller.

He wants to turn the former Liason College building on John Street into condo's and a boutique style hotel.

It's a project valued at about ten million dollars.

As for the Royal Connaught, Spokesman Tony Battaglia says the owners are still looking for their own financing to redevelop the hotel.

gotta love CHML.
They just copy and paste the news from the Spec. How about sending out a reporter to interview the guy and get some different info.

Isn't Harry usually on Bill Kelly around 10am whenever something happens on the news related to him?

I actually like abbreviated news articles. I'm SO jealous of TO, Mtl and the other big cities who have Metro newspapers. They're for the 'Young Professional on the Go' aka 'ppl who think they're too busy for life' aka 'Torontonians' hahaha

I've emailed Metro News a cpl times suggesting a publication for the Greater Hamilton-Burlington area, but apparently we're too close to Toronto :(

I'm glad Harry moved on and went with a smaller project.

Though I'm sure Oscar and Tony aren't too trilled to hear a boutique hotel is being proposed right next to their hotels.

Great news as i walked by the other day i was wondering what was going to happen here since London Tap house has added some life to this area.

It says boutique hotel and condos but isnt the building curently on three floors or less? Is he planning on adding on, imu a little confused with the plans to this but good news none the less.

I would imagine the development will see the existing building demolished to accomodate a new building at this location.

that existing building is one of a very few that I actually HOPE to see demolished. It's a piece of crap like the old one-storey Kit Kat building.

^^ it's a total piece of crap!
There isn't even a floor! It's just a pit.
Plus the Crazy Horse Saloon used to be a crackbar, right? :s

I would imagine he would tear it down and build a modern-looking boutique hotel in it's place.
Something Like:
http://www.hotelchatter.com/files/ad..._residence.jpg'ish?
http://www.hotelchatter.com/story/20...o_Which_is_it_

He only owns the Liaison though, so the Crazy Horse is kinda neither her nor there. It and the building it is in is still owned by a numbered company. I think we might see Stinson changing that however, as it would largely increase the foot print of his project. I can't really imagine him building much anything over 5-6 stories on the Liaison footprint.

Anyway I wish him good luck, he's definitely on a better footing this time around since he actually owns the property in question. If he gets the shovel in the ground, the Connaught certainly won't be empty for much longer.

That strip of road is in desperate need of redevelopment. It'll be great if he gets this project going.

I know I'll incur the wrath of the Stinson-haters on the board, but once again, he's at least moving forward and trying to make a project happen downtown.
The same can't be said for most of the other slumlords who have gotten rich off letting their properties (and this city) rot for the past 4 decades.
Shame on them all.
They are the only reason that I'd have a tiny piece of my heart sad to see Stinson succeed - it'll make them a bundle of money overnight and validate their plan to speculate and harm our city for all of these years.
Of course, I love Hamilton and downtown Hamilton especially. I hope with everything that Stinson can pull this one off, even if it means helping the selfish losers that have permeated our downtown for decades.

Let me get this straight: a developer seen as the leading light for the renewal of downtown Hamilton got kicked out of his rental space so that it could be provided for the use of people...who may or may not be running an "expected" election campaign?

Never mind loving or hating Harry Stinson, the man is by turns P.T. Barnum and 1970s-vintage Woody Allen, and his activities here are turning into farce. Budding novelists in Hamilton are already sharpening their pencils and waiting with baited breath for the next chapter in his saga, because you can't make this stuff up!

Hopefully the historical plaque will pay tribute to its former life as a Kentucky Fried Chicken outlet.

Crazy Horse and the building above is, I think, owned by the same zany character who holds the deed to Joe Butt's.

Its an uphill battle for sure but show him a little respect. He's trying to make an improvement in your city.

There was an interview with Stinson, CEO Downtown Hamilton Partners, in the Globe and Mail's Report on Small Business. It an interview was about being an entrepreneur.

Posted only as a FYI.......

Very interesting article indeed. Although I really hate the Q&A format of a newpaper article. Lazy journalism IMO. Just leaves me feeling like the reporter couldn't meet his deadline with a real article, so he hands in the interview Q&A instead.

Here's a link to its online version

My favourite quote from the article:

wow...that whole paragraph is pure gold.
I've mentioned a similar concept in previous posts. Every invention we've developed, new breakthroughs in technology, medicine, research, sports records etc.... all happened AFTER much failure and repeat effort.
I'm with Stinson 100% on this. The world as we know it exists because people were willing to take a risk and keep taking a risk over and over again despite the sideline naysayers doing nothing with their lives.

When you pitch the impossible (100, 80, whatever storey) building that's planned on a napkin (napkin is Stinson's word, not mine) you have to generally expect naysayers.

Let's not forget there are both naysayers and proponents who don't have any "skin in the game". On this board we are all quilty. To my knowledge no one, including me, on this board put one red cent behind the Connaught project.

I'll be waiting to see who is the biggest Stinson believer and is the first person on this board is to put money into the Liaison College project. Who's going to put their money where their mouth is on this one?

if I had money to put, I'd definitely be interested in this Liason College plan. Seems like a more logical starting point and considering the location etc....would probably do very well as a hotel/condo.

I suspect Stinson's comment about drawing the plans for The Connaught on a napkin was merely a figure of speech. However, the concept of jotting down an idea on a napkin is neither unusual nor a valid reason for skepticism. After all, Daniel Libeskind’s internationally acclaimed design for the ROM Crystal Wing was initially conceptualized by Libeskind's sketches on a bunch of napkins in the ROM's cafeteria.

Why would someone say these projects are impossible? unless they want them to fail? Let him give it a shot. If it works out great, if it doesn't, no skin off your nose. Stinson's shown he's not a quitter. He'll succeed eventually, it might be the upcoming project or one down the line, but why be so negative?

Then he crumpled them up and went with that. ;)

By plans, I think he meant the overall business plan, and not the building's design. If it was a figure of speech, he was foolish to say it, period. Until I see the plan for the Connaught, I don't believe there was ever one. Prove me wrong.

Also, I'm betting Libeskind's napkin concept was eventually put into a professional format. I never said brainstorming concepts on a napkin, I said "plan".

I'm not going to get into the same sort of back and forth on this one as I did with the Royal Connaught, so I'm checking out of this thread. Bye.

So is the napkin talk over? Maybe we should move onto serviettes... :haha:

Yikes! That's a strong argument against your thesis. :)

All entrepreneurs are not created equal. Some entrepreneurs are good businesspeople. Some entrepreneurs are bad businesspeople. Some entrepreneurs are good people. Some entrepreneurs are bad people. I have not seen any evidence that Harry Stinson is a good businessperson, nor have I seen any evidence that Harry Stinson is a good person.

The fact that Stinson keeps going out and failing is not an indication that he is good at what he does or that he will ever succeed. If I had to place belief into anyone, it would be someone who has a track record of success.

For fear of inexplicably being labelled a "troll" yet again for expressing my honest on-topic opinions, I will stay out of this thread for a while.

I have yet to see any evidence that he is a bad businessperson or a bad person.
Big deal.
Let's chat in 30 years and maybe we'll know by then.

Possibly new life for the old KFC, interesting.

I've stated my case on Stinson, so I'm not going to repeat it and wade into a debate about his impact on downtown.

Looking at this project alone, and admittedly knowing relatively little about construction costs, I'm a little...ummm...skeptical of the supposed $10 million price tag for the project. Exactly what would $10 million get you in terms of a 'boutique hotel' and condos? During the recent overhaul of our local casino, the construction of a high-end steakhouse--which was actually merely the renovation of an existing space--exceeded $1 million alone. The craptastic Hamilton City Centre cost nearly $100 million to build over 15 years ago...makes me wonder if Harry is sketching out his financials on those napkins too.

so that used to be a KFC eh?? Wow. I wonder if he owns any adjacent buildings?

His three signature projects - the Candy Factory, 1KW and the Sapphire - were all business failures for him. Then he wasn't able to pull together the financing for the Connaught, which I would also consider a business failure. Granted, the Candy Factory and 1KW survived and were arguably successes in architecture and urbanism, if not in business.

Stinson certainly seems to have good instincts when it comes to the development itself, and in the long run I think that's what really matters.

I agree with you here. I've seen no evidence that he is anything but sincere in his desire to achieve success as a developer in Hamilton. I hope for his sake and ours that he can get this boutique project under his belt and start building the trust he will need to tackle his grander vision.

good point.
He needs to learn how to stay on board when his projects succeed. Lol.
Several people made a ton of money off of Candy Factory and 1KW. The media, of course, only focuses on Mirvish.
1KW is the best development in TO in my opinion.

$10 million for a boutique hotel/condo doesn't sound out of line considering the tiny size of the property.
Comparing it to City Centre is ridiculous.
I wonder how he would work parking into the site. It's not like he's got room for a parking drop-off on John St. That building seems to be hemmed in on all sides.

Has anyone checked out the apartments in the Foster Building yet??

The $10 million figure I'd suspect is the up front cost he'll have to put into the project the rest of the money probably from condo sales to build the building.

Quote
The $10 million figure I'd suspect is the up front cost he'll have to put into the project the rest of the money probably from condo sales to build the building.

So perhaps not that ridiculous a suggestion on my part after all. Look, I'm not coming out and saying this as a swipe at Stinson--the numbers simply do not compute. If you don't like my use of the City Centre example--perhaps refer back to the fact that it cost over $1 million to build a well-appointed steakhouse in an existing hotel. Installling soft surfaces and furnishings alone can be astronomically expensive--let alone demolition costs and construction on a small footprint (which can actually be more expensive, depending on the site).

As for the boutique hotel concept--it may be that there is a market in Hamilton for one--I have no idea. What I have yet to see is anyone else seize on the opportunity--part of me believes that Stinson has decided that there is a market for one--and that's that...a grand gesture if you will without due dilligence.

As mentioned by someone else on this thread, entrepreneurs come in many different flavours. Someone like Stinson sets himself up for ridicule, and he deserves it. But if he succeeds, then bully for him. One King West was a great project, no question.

People like Stinson are what keep the peanut gallery busy. And hey, I like peanuts sometimes. "Sometimes" is the operative word here, though.

I am sorry to hear you see downtown revitalization as trivial as a peanut gallery.

Just a quick reminder back to the Spec article that included the infamous Stinson napkin quote. Here is the exerpt from the interview:

The entire article can be found here

No word on whether the napkins had any stains from peanut shells, which obviously would contribute to the project's failure...

You don't understand the concept. Downtown revitalization is the show. Actually, anything can be the show. We're the audience. We heckle. It can be fun. If it hurts the actors' feelings then they give up their dreams of theatrical glory and become accountants. Everyone wins.

You and I and everyone west of Mississauga know that an 100-storey tower is not going to get built on the Connaught site. I won't say "never," because at some point in the grand scheme of things pigs will most likely grow wings and start flying--never say "never," as they say. Still, what would you rather have: no 100-storey tower and no fun, or no 100-storey tower and someone like Harry Stinson to mock?

Sigh...we've lost touch with our British roots, and have become earnest bores like the Americans. Actually, Canadians were always probably earnest bores, since so many of us back in the day were Scottish. I'm a Russian-Mennonite, so believe me, I know about earnest boredom. In any case, it's clear you need to be reminded that mockery is a noble sport going back to Swift. Furthermore, any other city in Canada should be so lucky to have a character like Stinson show up on their doorstep!

Stinson clearly stated in his interview that he is not a quitter, and he has the track record to back it up.

Downtown Hamilton is in a depressed state with little momentum and we need people like him who are persistent (or just stubborn!) , because whatever project is proposed is going to come up against a lot roadblocks and naysayers and those who don't want anything to change.

Fact remains that he got shit done elsewhere despite the projects having tanked financially. The economic spinoffs from his past failures (or successes however you want to look at it) are lasting even though the investors lost money. Unfortunately the more times he does this, the less anyone will give him a chance.

Great cities were built because people made money doing it, that's the hard fact of downtown renewal. When people lose money but the project goes on to benefit others, that's an accident - not one we should count on happening here.

I think he should build a 5 or 6 storey streetfront on the land he owns and have a restaurant / bar at ground level. We know he can at least handle that. Then the top floors will be prestige appartments which he can offload to some management company. If there was a taller rooftop patio that would stick it to London Tap House, well that would just be ridiculous.

?? ridiculous? I'd love a taller rooftop patio around there.

Sorry, I use ridiculous to refer to good things. London Tap House had potential but it's crazy that they don't only have no taps up there, but you can't bring a pint from the main floor where the taps while existant are terrible. And you have to pay nightclub cover just to get on the roof. That place needs to be shown.