Frontier Centre touts water export: Manitoba could earn $1B
 

Frontier Centre touts water export
Manitoba could earn $1B

Updated: June 24 at 11:36 AM CDT | Winnipeg Free Press

Water is the answer to Manitoba’s financial woes, says the Frontier Centre for Public Policy.


According to a recent report, Manitoba could earn $1.33 billion by simply exporting 1 per cent of the province’s water to the United States.


The report’s author, Daniel Klymchuck, said the province could build a 630 mile underground pipeline down the eastern side of the province - from the Hudson Bay to the U.S. border - without disturbing Manitoba’s ecological system.


In addition to being a great source of revenue, he said the pipeline could also serve the freshwater needs of Winnipeg and surrounding areas.


“Selling water would change Manitoba’s economic prospects dramatically,” Klymchuk said. “The province has become completely dependent on federal transfers and subsidies. This has had the unintended effect of creating a relatively moribund, high-tax province with little population growth.”

Ummm unless the US is in need of salt water, I am not sure if there is a reason to start draining Hudson Bay...

My vote for the stupidest idea ever.

I vote NO. We should never, NEVER, EVER!! start selling our water to the most wastefull country in the world. No matter if it would bring us tons of money. No matter who says it wouldnt be a drain (no pun intended) on our ecosystem, I garuntee you that it would. This plan is deffinatley made up to be something short term. They are not thinkning about the long term effects of anything.

I imagine we would divert and desalinate here. I hope we run an extensive feasibility study, but if it is deemed ecologically safe by the experts, that this is something I have long been in favour of. However, as a province, we have to have enough fortitude to turn the valve off if whoever is supposed to pay doesn't pay. In the future we can't get soft-hearted if we hear Americans say, "this is our water supply, you can't shut us off". If you don't pay the bill, be prepared to stay parched. As long as we can be rigid and vigilant as such, and ecologically it is safe, then I am behind it 100%. I'm sick of being a recipient province.

Are there any examples of these transactions today? It feels like the idea of selling water, on this level, is an arrangement that could go south very quickly. But then again, Hydro already benefits on our water supply by selling electricity.

One percent of our water supply going south in exchange for a billion dollars sounds like a good idea.

We could use the money to pay down debt, or reduce taxes, or built a splashy piece of much needed infrastructure like a free flowing highway 75 which would have trade benefits of its own.

Presumably we would be taking in one billion per annum so one can only imagine the things we could do.

This guy is on crack, and anyone who thinks this idea is even remotely economically feasible is smoking the same stuff.

Look at the most important factor:

A 630 mile (1000km) UNDERGROUND LARGE diameter insulated pipeline through some of the most inhospitable and remote terrain on earth. The construction costs required to build this would be astronomical.

Ontario won't even twin the trans-Canada highway through this terrain, and yet, this guy figures we can build a more technically challenging pipeline through it?

Once we build the pipeline, who is going to pay the premium on the water we will need to charge just to get it to the border? Who down south needs it THAT bad?

It might not be so lucrative now, but statisticians figure that the population of Arizona seniors alone will probably triple in the next 20 years, never mind the fact that Las Vegas is currently the fastest growing city in America.

It's their fault they are building and moving into some of the most inhospitable places in america. Like i mean, this cannot possibly be sustainable.

doesnt work that way...the free trade agreement would kick in the second anyone in canada sells a single drop of water south....it is no coincidence that the lead american negotiator of the free trade agreement did his doctoral thesis on the need for a continental water strategy.

as soon as the commodity becomes part of that agreement, americans are considered the same as canadians and we would lose control of our water supply....americans could take ownership of our water sources, build pipelines anywhere they want, and we would be powerless to stop it....as well, once we turned on the tap, there would be no way to turn it off, even if there were shortages in canada....canada's water would instantly become north america's water because FTA eliminates the nationalist ownership regulations and both countries would be treated equally....that's why it is such a huge deal anytime anyone has suggested this.

many experts regard this issue as the single greatest reason the americans entered into free trade 20 years ago....

There are so many reasons why this would become a mess of a situation. And I agree that the Americans would find loopholes to get an even larger stranglehold on our water; and it is OUR water.

And there are claims that this is ecologically safe? As a qualified conservation biologist, I want to see whatever reports they are basing this on in order to get a sense of just how "safe" this really would be and judge for myself.

All in all, my vote is overwhelmingly NO. I'm all for Manitoba to become more of an economic powerhouse, but I don't see this as a "safe" solution in any regard.

Bingo!

At first glance, water pipelines to the U.S. may seem like a great idea (e.g. source of revenue), however, there are far greater implications for Canadians if such a proposal were to establish itself and become official (e.g. lose control of our country's future well being).

i wouldnt be surprised if the "frontier centre" was a front for the nevada homeowners association.

selling water is not a provincial decision it is a federal one....if one province sold water to the US, the next day, there would be a pipeline built to drain the mckenie river into northern california and there would legally be nothing that we could do about it...

Couldn't Canada just withdraw from the FTA/NAFTA if this were likely to happen, or make it clear that it would withdraw if the Americans decided to use their rights under the agreements in such a way as would deprive us of water (supposing for the sake of argument that the account of the agreement given above is accurate)?

Really? They can just build a pipeline anywhere, without regard to Canadian law? No Canadian could build a water pipeline from the Mackenzie River to southern Canada, so how could NAFTA give an American the right to build one to the U.S.?

Don't the US democrats want to re-evaluate NAFTA?

Anyways, if Manitoba was to "desalinate" the water, why don't the Americans surpass us and go directly to either ocean on their coasts?

What's the harm, right?

1% is more than you think. A 0.5% change in water levels can fuck things up. Lake Superior went down just 28 inches (about 0.05% of it's water volume was lost) and it almost cut us off from the rest of the Great Lakes.

They don't mean water from Hudson's Bay itself, they mean water from waterways between Hudson Bay and the US border.

People have to stop fucking with the environment.

Americans have had all sorts of ideas to get ahold of OUR water:

There was a concept of sealing off James Bay from Hudson Bay with some sort of osmotic fence and desalinazing the water, digging a huge channel from there right through the Great Lakes and into the needy areas of the states.

Another plan called for funneling water from the larger lakes in the NWT, Lake Winnipeg and Manitoba in Manitoba, Lake of the Woods on the Ontario and Manitoba and Minnesota borders and Lake Okanagan in BC again through large channels and into the States.


I hope to God that nothing like this ever occurs.

The changes in question probably pale in comparison to the changes that were made for Manitoba Hydro, including the diversion of the Churchill River into the Nelson and the creation of several new lakes. Life went on when that happened. Why not help our neighbours and get rich in the process?

I would point out that Thunder Bay wouldn't exist if people hadn't messed with "the environment". And the world would have been much the poorer for it.

That's the kind of old school attitude that I hope will become extinct asap, as ecosystems worldwide have suffered because of it.

How would we not exist?

There would just be trees, moose, black flies, rock outcrops and swamps there. The difference from the current reality would therefore be small but nonetheless noticeable to the discerning observer.

are you aware of the trans canada pipe line?
http://www3.telus.net/bobspace/energ...linesMap_e.jpg

You know what? We should cut down all our trees and sell those too! Then we can strip the earth bare and sell the minerals!

MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!!!! :hyper:

Yes. But gas is a very different animal than water.

Are you saying that because there are underground pipelines (who have bad track records of bursting/eroding away and causing massive underground plume contaminations, that we should start doing the same with water?

I hope not..............

true considering theres hydrolics involved.............. and its being pumped up hill......
and does the organization even know about our water source?

just saying it can be done lol but why would we again

I seriously hope this would never happen. I mean, it's already happening in BC, and most people don't even know about it.

Re: The pipe lines: The gas is shipped from one source. In the case of water, there is no single source that could yield so much water (except for Lake Winnipeg I guess) so multiple pipe lines or pumping stations would have to be run all over the province. It would be a logistical nightmare.

It's America's fault for building in the deserts in the first place.

pehaps my example was a bit extreme, but you are missing the point...currently water is not sold as a commodity in canada....if water is sold in bulk across the border it immediately falls under NAFTA trade guidelines, which opens it up all kinds of legal challenges that will inevitably lead to us losing control of our water supply...it is very easy to make a "trade discrimination" argument once one side has begun selling it....

once canada allows water to be diverted outside its borders, foreign investors must be given the same “national treatment” as canadian companies and the needs of americans will be treated as equal to the needs of canadians.

this scenario has already come close to fruition in BC and NFLD, both times killed by public pressure...the americans know eventually the hammer will drop though...its why NAFTA is just sketchy enough on the subject to allow legal challenge when it finally does happen.

here is a good history of the water trade issue:

http://www.powi.ca/pdfs/events/powi2..._Diversion.pdf

and an interesting link to the NCPA:

http://www.ncpa.org/pd/trade/pd012799f.html

an example is our energy exports...we are currently unable to reduce our exports of energy to the U.S. under NAFTA, no matter what the circumstance in our own country and no matter how much they need or waste.....the same would happen to water if it was commodified...

suggesting that our failsafe is to cripple our economy and walk from NAFTA is ridiculous...how bad would the situation have to get before that was the best solution.

wow the frontier centre.

they're on the frontier!

I bet they're in favour of bill C-61, the bill that pretends to stop piracy but just lets american corporations sue everyone, and doesn't let you use what you buy the way you like.

I'm against exporting water. Let the bastards throats parch.

How much is Manitoba's soul going for these days?

a box of timbits

Probably not much more than Alberta's over the last 20-30 years or so ;)

Anyways, I doubt this will happen, thankfully.

Why do people equate selling water with stuff like "souls" and drape what is an ordinary commodity transaction in all sorts of quasi-religious mystical language? No goes off on these New Age religious tangents when it comes to selling "our" oil or "our" nickel -- is it because water is seen as pure and cleansing while mucky black oil or stinky natural gas aren't sufficiently holy? Maybe it's because, having anthropomorphized rocks, bush and moose into "ecosystems", the thought of draining the water out of them brings back ancient psychological fears about bloodletting in human beings.

As far as I can see, Manitoba has a lot of water and it could easily spare some of it to the benefit of everyone involved. If on closer investigation there turned out to be a serious environmental concern about doing so, or if it just wasn't economical, then there would be no need to proceed. But talk of "souls" should not enter into the discussion.

Commoditising water usage is like commoditising the air we breathe. As Canadians, privatizing water resources and wasting it should disgust us. In Africa, part of the problem with water rights is that farmers are restricted from bettering themselves because water rights are so heavily regulated by foreign companies.

We have a lot of water, we should strive to keep it in Canada and keep it relatively free (in terms of freedom) and maintain the environment we have.

dupe

Well put.